Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

He said the gross figures were not there, but they are in the published report. This is not my report; it is from the implementation body. Let me be quite clear because we can lose things in figures. The bottom line is that in the reference period in question we have reduced the pay bill, independently validated not by my Department but by the implementation body, in gross terms by €650 million. There will be some add back because it involves 11,500 people leaving the service. I have indicated that there will be some recruitment this year. They have made an attempt to quantify what that might cost, indicating that the net payroll savings will be of the order of €520 million. By 2015, our aim is to reduce the public pay bill from its peak by €3.8 billion gross or €3.3 billion net of pension. That is a significant reduction in anyone's language.

I accept Deputy McDonald's point that a reduction in numbers is only part of this whole dynamic. The reform side of it is as important, which is what I want to concentrate on in order to get different delivery mechanisms and rosters. For example, we want to ensure we are deploying gardaí when they are most needed and that we have optimum use of resources in hospitals so that staff will match equipment availability. That is the drive for reform that is happening in parallel to the reduction in numbers. The fact that we are doing that in an atmosphere of industrial peace is a great credit to public service workers.

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