Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)

I thank the Technical Group for allocating this time for my contribution and I acknowledge the presence of the Minister.

The ideology behind this Bill, that it would be more efficient to have a single organisation to ensure quality in further and higher education and training rather than the current system which involves several bodies, some of them with overlapping responsibilities, is broadly welcome. However, I take exception to a statement made earlier in the debate when a Deputy said he was delighted that the Government was finally doing away with quangos and bringing many different organisations under a single umbrella. Whether we are talking about the Higher Education and Training Awards Council, the Further Education and Training Awards Council, the National Qualifications Authority of Ireland or the Irish Universities Quality Board, the people who served on those boards over the years would not be too pleased to hear a Deputy in the Dáil refer to the committees and boards they sat on, perhaps for many years, in that way. They gave good service, did good work and did their best at all times. It is wrong for a Member of this House to dismiss other organisations as quangos. I do not like it and wish to voice my opposition to it.

The Bill sets out the overall structure of the amalgamated organisation and provides for its functions in the area of the maintenance and implementation of the National Framework of Qualifications, the external quality assurance of educational providers, the accreditation and recognition of prior learning, the recognition of Irish awards internationally and the recognition of international awards in Ireland, the setting of standards for access to programmes of education and training and the transfer and progression between programmes, the setting of standards for awards, the making of awards, the validation of programmes of education and training, and the regulation of providers of educational services to international students. The new organisation will also take on responsibility for the external quality assurance review of the universities, a function that is currently performed by the Irish Universities Quality Board, IUQB, and the Higher Education Authority. There will also be a discussion with the National University of Ireland, NUI, about the possibility of including some of the related functions of the NUI in the new organisation. That would be very welcome.

The Bill provides in legislation for the first time for the external review of the quality assurance procedures of universities and the transfer of this function from the IUQB to the new agency. Recognised universities of the NUI establishing quality assurance procedures will have those procedures approved under the new agency. This follows the report which showed a very worrying slippage by three Irish universities in the world rankings. Trinity College Dublin is down 13 places and UCD is down 20 places, while NUI Galway is down 66 places. UCC climbed three places. In the past, Ireland had an excellent reputation both at home and internationally for the standard of education and standards in the universities. Overseas employers who came to this country to create much needed jobs considered our education system to be a model that turned out excellent, highly educated and articulate young people. It was very much an added attraction for companies coming to this country. The slippage in the rankings is something that must be addressed.

The Minister is in tune with that problem and is anxious that we go back to the position we held in the past. We do not want a situation where people who are considering coming to this country to create jobs will bring their own graduates with them. We welcome everybody, of course, but we wish to see our indigenous young population getting jobs here after receiving a good education. Whether our young people who finish university decide to stay and get jobs in Ireland or they must unfortunately go abroad, we must ensure they go with the best education possible and having been given every opportunity in this country. When they travel around the world, therefore, they will have the same standard, or better, as applies in whatever part of the world they decide to stay.

The Department claims that the amalgamation will save the Exchequer an estimated €1 million per annum, but there will be extra costs for providers of education to international students and there might be extra costs for providers who must comply with the provisions of the NFQ. However, there might be some savings for providers who currently deal with both FETAC and HETAC. Of course, any savings that might be made would be very welcome.

We had a good reputation in the past with regard to foreign students coming to study in this country, whether in our universities or in our schools. Parents from all over Europe were very glad to send their children to Ireland. They saw Ireland as a welcoming country and a place where their children would not only get a good education but also enjoy the hospitality which we were able to provide in a way, perhaps, that no other country in the world could provide. Overall, the students who came here were safe, secure and happy. When they left after completing their education, they were good roving ambassadors for this country around the world because they could refer to the good aspects of the education and hospitality they received in this country.

I welcome the work that has been done on setting up this organisation. However, I am mindful of a meeting we had today with representatives who were concerned about saving our small national schools. Education starts from the first day a child leaves home at four or five years of age to go to the local national school. The point is that we want our young people to attend their local national school. From the first day of their education it is important that young people start on the right foot. In the past, we had one of the best systems in the world in that we had small national schools in rural areas that gave young students a very special and sincere start in education, which put them on a path to being sound, grounded individuals. It prepared them for going to secondary school and on to university and then into the workforce for the rest of their lives.

I am not taking pop at the Minister about education cuts or some of the views he has about small schools, but I am taking this opportunity to plead with him. I have spoken about this before and I am sorry if I am repeating myself, but it is something in which I have a very strong belief. The people we met today are working in small schools and, thankfully, the current and past Governments have invested in those schools. If we abandon those schools, we will not save any money. The teachers are there anyway. If a school is crumbling and falling down and it would require hundreds of thousands of euro to rebuild it for only a handful of students, I would be the first to agree that the sensible to do is to let that school go or amalgamate it. However, in the case of a school with every facility, on which a fortune has been spent over the past five, ten or 15 years and in which a nice system operates, it would be shameful to walk away from such buildings. I acknowledge the Minister has not stated he wishes to close schools.

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