Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

We have pilots that are paid for, while Ministers are now saying: "No, I'll take commercial flights and leave that there." We need to have a different approach that is efficient, mindful of scarce resources and not wasteful. I fully agree with the Deputy in that regard.

My final point concerns the management of it, and Deputy Maloney touched on cartridge-gate. It is important to give authority to managers, whether in the Oireachtas or elsewhere, simply to alert people to say "You can't do that". If this is the accepted norm, they will not only have the authority but the responsibility to manage resources properly and well. That should happen across the public service. It is part of the process that is happening right now in the reforms agenda. We have a long way to go because, to abuse the word the Deputy used himself, there is a culture change. The vast majority of those in the public service understand that, as taxpayers, they want good value and want to eliminate waste. That is the objective of this Government.

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