Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on this issue. I am delighted there is a referendum because the people who voted for a new Government a year ago based on promised change got no change. There was just a change of seating arrangements in the House. The people are anxious to have their say on the referendum and are entitled to it. I have an open mind on this matter and will weigh up the arguments very carefully.

I want the Taoiseach to put on the green jersey this time and state when in mainland Europe, where he is going this Friday, that we have a real problem. Since we must pass the referendum, he should demand that we be treated fairly and as equal partners. He should demand that we not be fleeced with high interest rates. We are being charged up to 6% in interest on the EU-IMF bailout loan. I voted against this, against my own party, at the time because it was not a bailout; it was a clean-out. The European Central Bank is giving banks money today at a rate of 1% while Ireland is paying at a rate 6%. Any economist or layman will say that is not fair. Money is being given to the banks that caused the problem and austerity measures must be imposed here and elsewhere in Europe to pay back the funds. The banks caused the failure. Hey presto, what happened this morning? A sum of up to €800 million was paid. There is no fair play. The Taoiseach must achieve some recognition for the plight of our people. He needs to have the debt halved. As I have always said, we owe only half of it because the European banks recklessly lent money to Irish banks. We are on our knees trying to pay it back.

We must extend the date of repayment over 30 years. The Germans finished paying money owed since the last war only quite recently. We must be realistic and apply the same standards that were applied to Germany when it got into huge debt. We must achieve fair play and be seen to do so. The people of Ireland will vote in favour of the treaty if they secure some recognition for their plight.

Deputy Durkan stated we have shaved €18.4 billion from our indebtedness. I do not know where he got that figure. I commend the Government on achieving some writing down of interest - I give credit where credit is due - but we now need a major carrot. I am not saying we are blackguarding or threatening; we need to be treated with respect and dignity. We should not be kowtowing to the bully boys, Dr. Angela Merkel or the rest of the gang in Europe. We just require fair play and to be respected as an equal.

Previous treaties have had these concepts written into them and they have all been flouted. I know in my heart that people will not vote for this treaty unless they see the debt is dealt with and that there will be stimulus packages that will get the country moving again. Austerity is not working. This morning on the Order of Business, we heard no business is being transacted because people do not have money or confidence. Above all, there is no fair play. I urge the Taoiseach to travel to Europe to tell his colleagues it is now time to step up to the plate. There is no point in his getting pats on the back, the back of the head or the neck. We want our people to be able to vote for the treaty if our European colleagues guarantee they will treat us fairly and respectfully, and allow us breathing space to pay the debts we owe, not those we are perceived to owe and which are crippling us. We are a fair people and have been good Europeans, but we are being blackguarded here. The first bailout was a clean-out, but we must get justice. If we do not, this will be going down the swanny.

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