Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)

I have an official reply with me, but I do not propose to put it on the record as I want to give a genuine response to both Deputies. I have no agenda to close any school, nor does the Department have a central plan or model that will be applied willy nilly across the country. That might have been the way in the past.

Our system is 181 years old this year. As I said last night, at one stage there were more than 6,000 primary schools across rural Ireland, because they were set up in 1831. Now, there are 3,200. I want to get to the bottom of this issue with my response. What I want for rural Ireland is for children attending school in rural Ireland to have the best possible primary education system that can be delivered in the 21st century. However, this does not have to be delivered on a platform that was designed in the 1940s or in the 1950s. We do not have a model on a shelf in the Department in Marlborough Street that will fit all the way from Kerry or Cork to Donegal. If communities and parents can come forward with ideas, we will look at them. I am aware of a clustering model in east Cork where 13 primary schools came together and utilised the infrastructure and the resources of those 13 buildings and integrated boards of management, secretarial support and resources.

What I want to achieve is the best possible outcomes for rural pupils who attend rural schools in the 21st century, for children starting next September who will celebrate their 21st birthdays in 2030 or thereabouts. We must look at how best to do this. We do not have the best model. We do not have any particular model. However, the current system cannot stay still any more than it did 20, 30 or 40 years ago. The Deputies are aware of the famous controversy in Dún Chaoin. All the protests in the world did not stop the march of progress. However, that march must be initiated by the people on the ground, not by the people on Marlborough Street.

I understand that the value for money report will be published in a few weeks times. The Deputies might be aware of it, although "value for money" is not the most elegant phrase. There are just under 600 schools of 50 or fewer pupils. Most of these are in the west, given that its population has been more static and is now more concentrated than previously. Let us find a proper, creative and sensible way to deal with this issue. The Department will not gain by emptying schools and selling them, given that there is no market. In many cases, the Department does not own the buildings. Rather, they are owned by the parish and so on. There is no ulterior motive. Fixed costs are associated with any school. Insurance remains the same whether the school has two or four teachers. There are other fixed costs, for example, heating.

I do not know the answer to my next question. Given current levels of traffic, how many parents in the Deputies' part of the world let their children walk to school along roads and boreens? I am somewhat familiar with the area. If I lived there, I would not let an eight or nine year old walk the road to school. The schools exist because every child who attended them previously used to walk to them.

Where will we go from here? The Deputies should discuss the matter with us after the value for money report has been published and they have had a chance to examine it from the point of view of what is best for people's children and grandchildren and for the delivery of education. Their proposals might differ between Kerry and Cork, but we need not have the one system. Instead, we need the best outcome, that is, a kid attending primary school in rural Ireland getting as good if not a better choice of curriculum and teachers year by year as opposed to, for example, four years in a single room. The Deputies' communities know best how something will work on the ground.

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