Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)

I am struck by the contributions of my colleagues. They illustrate a caution about this Bill, but if Members of the Oireachtas continue to say that they need more power to do their job properly, they cannot on the other hand say they do not trust themselves to discharge that power properly. With regard to the points made by Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan, I do not see many Senator McCarthys in the House. There might be a few in the making if granted this power, but the Oireachtas cannot say, on the one hand, that it wants the power to perform a particular role and do it well, and then say it does not trust itself to perform that role properly. We have seen the alternatives. We have seen what happened when this investigating role was outsourced to other people in the tribunals of inquiry. That mode of investigation was insulated from the Oireachtas and we have seen how long it took and its cost. Politicians cannot say that they want the ability to fulfil this new role well and then say they do not want it because they do not trust themselves to be able to do it properly.

There are three subsections in the measure we propose to put to the people, and I will comment on each of them. With regard to the first subsection, the point has already been covered regarding how the ability to perform would be undermined by the perception of bias in any member of a potential committee. This is a crucial point. The last investigative committee established by a House of the Oireachtas to oversee the conduct of a Member, in the last Seanad, saw members having to depart from the committee because they did not either have the intention or the discipline to refrain from commenting on it in public. That is an essential point which must be kept in mind when forming any new committee.

In regard to the second subsection, the comment has been made that we must ensure the operation of that does not veer into the way the criminal justice system works. It is essential in the operation of this that we do not look back and say that happened. We should have a process in place which ensures it does not happen and that if there is a risk of it happening, it is stopped or curtailed.

There is a danger in the third subsection, which was touched on by Deputy Catherine Murphy, in regard to how one determines the appropriate rights of the individual and of the public or national interest. That appears to be a minefield through which we need to very carefully tread. It will be very challenging for an Oireachtas looking to investigate a particular matter to be the same body charged with determining the manner in which that will be done. That is a very delicate line which needs to be very carefully walked.

That leads on to my final point which is the creation of what will be called "investigators" to support an Oireachtas committee in the operation of this work. These individuals will have a huge amount of power and will have some new capacities granted to them under this Bill. We need to ensure the people who will do this work have the ability to do so and that they will also be accountable to the Oireachtas at all times.

There is a danger that as the Oireachtas is granted new powers, Members will say they do not trust their ability to discharge those powers properly. As I said, we have seen the cost of the alternative. Now is the time for the Oireachtas to take a more prominent role in doing work the people want us to do.

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