Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

The Deputy made a number of important points. On the general definition of what consultation actually constitutes, I consulted and had discussions on the form it should take. Where there is statute provided for there will have to be a formal consultation, whether this is a formal meeting or an exchange of letters. It must happen as required by the new Act.

In general terms, most of these bodies will transfer to me but the local loans fund will not. This fund, established in 1935, will remain under the control of the Minister for Finance. However, a role is being provided for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform because of the policy remit involved in these matters.

The purpose of the local loans fund in 1935 was to provide a system of local authority capital funding. Since 1988 new loan approvals for the fund are very limited, as the Deputy probably knows well, because they have been replaced, by and large, by direct Exchequer grants for individual local authority capital projects, such as water, sewage, and so on. In the case of housing loans the housing finance agency was established in 1986 and provided local authorities with the requisite funds, at variable interest rates, to provide for housing. In essence, therefore, the local loans fund is being wound down and does not have a long-term future. It will stay with the Minister for Finance because essentially it is a funding mechanism rather than an agency of State.

Regarding NAMA and its remit, NAMA will remain under the aegis of the Minister for Finance. The board and its members were already dealt with in an amendment and I will have a role in determining those. Unfortunately, as I indicated, I will not have a role in determining the pay and conditions of the employees of NAMA because they are contracted on an individual basis. That is something I must reflect upon in order to see how I might get a role in that regard. I reiterate I do not believe anybody should be on the public payroll unless we are entitled to know how much he or she is being paid, but in the case of NAMA we do not know this. I am sure the officials are doing great work, although there may be disagreements on that. One of the early decisions of this Government was to ensure there would not be a second tranche of properties transferred to NAMA, what was referred to as "NAMA 2". That did not happen and we got the consent of the troika to stop that transfer. It seems there is a jaundiced view of NAMA's operation.

The Deputy asked a general question about all the bodies under the different remits, whether they have funds and how the general Government balance is determined. He is right. We need to ensure there is proper accounting and reporting of all funding available. This is certainly done in regard to local authorities, vocational educational committees and everybody else, so we can have an accurate picture, because the general Government balance is determined not only by the Executive's balance sheet, so to speak, but by the State's balance sheet in all its forms and agents. The troika required that.

In my 107 days, or three months odd in office - we should probably stop counting - I have been impressed by the accounting mechanisms in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and for that reason was very glad to launch the website I mentioned in order to give that information to the general public. In that way, we will have close to real time a monthly report on where we are in terms of balances, expenditure, procurement and so on. Not that many countries in the world could be as accurate and comprehensive and as quick in providing that data. I present to Government on a monthly basis the current balance sheet in terms of income and expenditure so we know where we are. Deputy Fleming is right; this filters down to all the agents of the State. If there are hidden pots of money I would like to discover them although I would be surprised if there were any. It would be worse if there were deficits we had not discovered. We need to know the complete picture and we do, as far as I am aware.

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