Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

I do not know, but the Deputy's officials will be able to tell him about it. He was a man who probably had a better global view because he was dealing with the national debt and issuing bonds and knew the vibes about Anglo Irish bank globally. He was not part of the loop. He was isolated and insulated in his agency. It needed highly paid executives at the time to do a particular job and recruited him from financial services and the banking industry. He was paid high rates to take the job.

There is now a good case for bringing the NTMA back into the Department of Finance which would bring him into its pay scales. It is wrong that the pay scales are exorbitant. It is difficult to get figures on them. Some people are probably receiving bonuses as well. I am not being small-minded. Due to the scale of the crisis and the fact that the Department of Finance is divesting itself substantially from public expenditure issues it should now be in a position to focus more closely on banking, Government and national debt and treasury management issues than it was in the past.

It is something the Minister could usefully consider over a period. The Minister will always be asked why agencies are exempt, outside the system and have undisclosed pay scales. It is not good for the public service. I do not believe for a minute that the calibre of a person in the agency is better than that of a person in the Department of Finance or the Central Bank. I do not see why a person should be singled out for special pay rates.

On the Revenue Commissioners, I asked a question during the briefing session yesterday. I was worried about its independence. It has operated very well. The Deputy gave us an outstanding history going back to 1923 and 1924. The convention applies consistently, something which Moriarty acknowledged in his report. There is never any interference in a case with Revenue.

We all get queries from people who want to know if they have received their mortgage interest relief or how they claim tax relief in a med form. There is not a person in the country who has not had to deal with Revenue. It would be wrong if its independence was such that the normal avenues of communications would be cut off. I am pleased that will not now happen.

The Bill is a sop to Moriarty and PR. We are not changing the substance of anything. Everyone has accepted there had been no interference. It might look good to put it on a statutory footing but it will not make any real change. Agencies will continue to be independent as they always have been. There will be room to table parliamentary questions and bring people before Oireachtas committees.

People will also be able to contact the tax office on behalf of a constituent who is not able to talk to an official, the same way people need assistance to contact a health board or the Department of Social Protection. People may say that is not what Deputies are elected to do but with 300,000 public servants not every one of them is perfect. The system is not perfect in that many the people working in it and those in most need of help often require someone to help them to deal with organisations.

I am happy that will not change. I welcome the fact that the Bill is being introduced but I seriously regret and object to the fact that we are being asked to complete Report and Final Stages today and are not being given an opportunity to challenge any of the amendments the Deputy has tabled which affect 200 statutes. We needed a week.

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