James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)

The Deputy's first contention is that there will be no oversight. The Department has strong representation on the board, which ensures oversight. There are also external auditors, etc. There is not the major concern alluded to by the Deputy from the Government's point of view. It is an interim board, which will not be in place for a number of years but until the new system comes into place.

I said we wanted more integration between the HSE and the Department but I never said we would absorb the HSE into the Department. Ultimately, we are heading for universal health insurance with primary care and hospital care coming under a new body that will be responsible for cure while longer term care will be looked after by a health care agency.

With regard to my statements on the issue of the numbers of patients waiting on trolleys, I was happy to say following discussions with the HSE and the INMO that we would accept their figures but that they must be validated by a HSE official at the time the count takes place in the morning. The Deputy is right that primary care teams do not exist. I have had discussions with the HSE on this and I now have clarity on the issue. HSE officials allude to primary care teams which exist in name but which are not fully functioning. They are seeking to put together the criteria for what constitutes a functioning primary care team, which delivers something to patients, as opposed to a primary care team, under which GPs may have had discussions with other health personnel. I did not say that I did not trust the INMO, I said I did not accept or believe its numbers and I stand over that.

See this speech in context