Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

I too am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill. Begging is a sensitive issue, especially in the hard times we face at present. It is important to balance the need for law and order with an appropriate response to a human and societal problem. The Bill achieves this balance, in that it does not criminalise begging itself but leaves only aggressive begging as a crime. It is important to distinguish between both. The offence of begging arises only where it is accompanied by threats, intimidation, violence or obstruction. The offence carries a penalty of one month imprisonment and/or a fine of up to €400. The Bill also proposes a new power that would permit a member of the Garda to direct persons who are begging to move on from key public places, for example, the vicinity of an ATM or the entrance to a home or business premises.

I totally understand that when an individual or family are forced go out to beg their self worth and lives are at a very low pitch. They would not do it unless they had hit very hard times, fallen off the wagon and were forced into the situation. We must differentiate this activity from organised begging, often involving small children accompanying adults on the streets in all kinds of weather. It is very hard for passers by to see them in such circumstances. I accept totally that if people want to contribute in such cases, they are free to do so. However, I would be very concerned if I thought the begging was organised and that children were being misused or abused in this regard. They are normally found in very sensitive areas and I am delighted, therefore, that the Garda has the power to move them a certain distance from such areas.

Most Irish people want to share because of their history. In Penal and Famine times, people did not have enough to eat and were forced to flee the land in awful circumstances to foreign shores. Many died all over the country, in workhouses, poorhouses and God knows where else. Since then, many organisations, some voluntary, have been providing shelter, sustenance and basic requirements. They were overrun during the dark period in our history to which I refer. Since then, the Irish have been caring and interested in the livelihoods of their neighbours, friends and newcomers to our shores. Over recent decades, there have been many newcomers and we welcome them with open arms. It reflects badly on us all if there is an abuse of generosity and if begging is carried out in a business-like fashion that forces people to solicit money, food or other goods, including through activities on the streets or by calling to houses or businesses.

It is important that we legislate for the greater good and, in so doing, eliminate opportunities for a tiny minority to tarnish the reputation of the vast majority. Unfortunately, it is hard to legislate for everybody at once because a one-size-fits-all solution never can be applied easily.

The provisions in the Bill are valid and are to protect the public from intimidation and harassment. They will have an effect on related on-street activities, including drinking and drug taking, that represent a danger or threat to the public. While this aspect of the law is beneficial to society at large, it should not be seen in any way as brushing the problems of homelessness and begging under the carpet. It is very important all Members respect the fact that the legislation is not intended to do so in any way.

On a human level, I am sympathetic to those forced into the circumstances I have described. The Government should be considering preventive policies, such as family support and community intervention, that might provide a longer-term solution required by individuals and the broader community.

After the tsunami and other desperate events such as earthquakes and serious famines, from which, we are glad, our little country is protected, the Irish, both young and old, proved to be very generous. Moneys have been raised through no-uniform days in schools, arts initiatives and other means. Considerable sums of money and other goods are collected to be sent abroad. People mobilise and demonstrate their goodness when tragedies are beamed into their homes by the media. While we condemn the media at times, their bringing of such pictures into our sitting rooms reminds us of the plight of less-fortunate mortals. We have come to the aid of many all over the world and have been pioneering. We have missionaries all over the world.

I am glad the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs responsible for overseas aid, Deputy Peter Power, has joined us, along with the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Mary White. The Minister of State, Deputy Power, has witnessed some of the circumstances I describe. I have not although the pictures I have seen are enough to move anybody, unless one has a heart of stone.

The public will accept this Bill as an effort to eliminate malpractice and the misuse of people, including by gangs. People will understand it and will not have reasons to criticise or oppose it.

The failure to comply with a direction of the Garda will result in a fine of €300. It is a lot of money to the destitute or if one is begging. However, the fine is not aimed at the destitute but at those who are begging as a business. The provision will protect members of the public in locations where begging activity can be particularly intimidating and compromise one's privacy. It is very important that there be free movement and that people have a right to contribute in whatever way they want to charity without being coerced or having their arms twisted.

It will be an offence to fail to give a name or address to a garda, or to give false details to a garda, and this offence will attract a fine of up to €200. This is important. Every citizen should be traceable. I believe and want to believe, as is right, that all people have certain entitlements.

I thank the charities combating homelessness. In this regard, I must mention the work of my neighbour and friend from Tipperary, Alice Leahy, in Dublin. I am involved in many charities, some very closely. I do not want to be critical of charities because they are set up for the best of reasons. If I have any criticism, it is that they sometimes become so immersed in what they are doing that they do not see the wood for the trees and lose sight of their objectives. Bureaucracy can creep in and have an effect. Sometimes too much of the money donated freely by the people is spent on administration and meeting costs. We should not be afraid to say this and examine it. It can happen all committees and organisations. Most of our voluntary bodies are limited by guarantee but sometimes can get caught up in bureaucracy and lose sight of their objectives.

I referred to Ms Alice Leahy because her organisation is very small and local and meets the homeless in the morning and at times of great vulnerability. In saying this, I am not taking from any of the other charities. When walking to work, I normally meet people in the street and usually feel I want to give them something. Having listened to other speakers today, I may stop for a cúpla focal with the homeless with a view to understanding them better. Perhaps I will learn something tomorrow, in spite of my being a little afraid of the language barrier, for example. It is a bad day on which we do not learn something.

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