Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)

I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak on the Bill. While welcoming the proposed legislation on begging, I am aware it is far from the mentality of any of us to come the heavy on people who may be, for whatever reason, on the streets begging for money. Many in the House come from a modest background but our sympathy for our fellow human beings must not blind us to the different aspects of the situation with which we are now dealing.

Despite the recession, which has hit us and much of the world, we are a country that makes a decent effort to help our less well-off people. Those who beg on the streets must be directed to social services to get help and advice. There is a good deal of help for such people if only they would go and use it. Many of the people begging on our streets do not go near the social services. Services and money are available for those in trouble. It does people no long-term good to continue to beg on the streets.

Unfortunately, sometimes conmen and women are involved in this activity. Last year, I visited San Francisco and I noticed the amount of people begging on the pier there, especially near restaurants and tourist areas. Through friends of mine, I met some people who worked for the US Secret Service. One night, I was out for dinner and I commented on the issue to these people. They informed me that some beggars make a sizeable living from the activity and that the FBI had arrested an individual some weeks beforehand who was living in a house worth in excess of $500,000 and who drove a high-powered, expensive car and made this money from begging on the streets. He was an individual with one leg and he used this to his advantage. Such activities go on in certain places and we must have legislation to deal with the issue.

The background to the legislation used to deal with begging up to 2007 is a sad reminder of tragic times in our country. The Vagrancy Act 1847 was not our legislation. It was an Act framed under British rule aimed at the poor and destitute suffering from the effects of the Great Famine. Thankfully, terms such as "vagabonds" and "ruffians" in that 160 year old legislation are gone from our language. Despite whatever arguments exist between people in the country, we have moved on from such terminology and we have it within our control in our Parliament to frame humane and fair legislation.

The result of the High Court case of Niall Dillon v. DPP in 2007 set certain boundaries for what the Dáil and Seanad could attempt in this legislation. It is not proposed to make asking for help in public places an offence. It is clear that in practical terms this makes sense. Many individuals and organisations look for money from us on the streets every day of the week for worthy causes. Such requests constitute fundraising and are authorised by the Garda Síochána. One must acknowledge the tremendous work done by volunteers on the streets, including the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Croí and, especially in Galway, the Galway Hospice, which provides a great service. Much of its funding is received from people on the streets, especially on Saturdays by volunteers going around with a bucket outside matches. Such fundraising is controlled and organised and is for a very good cause. Apart from fundraising, other requests for money or help for individuals come under the umbrella of free speech and free association, which are kernels of our democracy.

However, we must apply ourselves to the practical issues. The public has a right to expect reasonable protection from undue pressure in their homes and public places. Sometimes, I see people openly begging in places on Shop Street in Galway city and this can create an uneasy atmosphere for shoppers and tourists. Galway city needs tourists and needs to provide them with a good experience and a ceád míle fáilte. The money that comes in from tourism helps the community and the public purse in general.

From the digest of the Bill, I note it is proposed to ensure certain places are off limits for those who beg, including begging door-to-door or in people's private property. In recent years especially around Galway city, one has seen many people begging from door-to-door with young children. They have been seen pushing prams, begging for clothes and this is a major nuisance to people in their homes. I am pleased this will be addressed in the Bill. It will become illegal, as will begging within 10 m of dwellings, ATMs and vending machines. I note that begging would be prohibited within 10 m of business premises as well if such activity is deterring people from going into such premises.

I agree with these measures but I suggest other locations should be included as well. The restrictions should apply to the surrounds of churches and places of worship, especially in the major towns and cities. People coming out after masses and services often see people begging outside. Begging should be prohibited in the vicinity of buses and train stations. While walking to the Dáil from where I stay, I pass one or two train stations. One always sees at least ten to 15 people on both sides of a railway station or bus station targeting tourists in particular. When tourists move from town to town, many use public transport, that is, our trains or bus services. As soon as they come to our towns the first thing they see is people begging. I trust this will be addressed in this Bill as well.

A key aspect of the new legislation is clarity. I understand clear regulations may be laid down, but I foresee difficulties in their implementation. After all, there is little difference between 10 m and 11 m from an ATM. Under the proposed legislation, there may be begging without breaking the law at an 11 m distance but not at a 10 m distance.

Another area open to interpretation relates to what constitutes aggressive begging in public places. I understand how this could be a matter of argument. It would be a matter of the judgment of the gardaí on the spot and, to be fair, one cannot legislate for all situations. Everyone in the House agrees that begging has to be controlled, especially in our major towns and cities. These people on our streets always target our tourists. Often one will see a tourist walking through a major town or village and a lady with two young children can be seen walking after that tourist trying to intimidate and put pressure on him or her. This is annoying for the tourists that come to our towns. I compliment and congratulate the Minister on introducing these proposals.

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