Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

It is not possible to give a direction which is contrary to the law. There are legal problems which need to be addressed. We want to ensure the review group's objective set out by the Minister of State, that is an independent report which would deal with the question of the deaths of children in care over the past ten years. It is not, however, possible, to give a direction if there are legal constraints under the Child Care Act. There is also the fact that proceedings in the cases in question are held in camera and subject to court order.

These issues can be addressed, we believe, by providing a specific legal basis on which this information should be shared between the Department of Health and Children and the HSE. That was the Government's view this morning when the Minister reported to us on the work of the review group. The Government was of the view this morning that whatever legislative changes are needed to overcome any particular legal issues that arise will be dealt with as a matter of urgency. The House would be united on that issue.

I refer to the question of the numbers. As I have stated, the HSE has informed the Minister that it wises to validate and get an accurate and consistent list of the deaths of children in care over that period. It seeks to have this finalised in the coming weeks having checked all of its files. I do not suggest this is something with which I or the Government is happy. One would have hoped it would have been available immediately but that is not the case. Therefore, we must get a validated list and we must get the facts together, collated and brought to the attention of the review group, along with the information required by the review group to examine the circumstances surrounding those deaths, whether by natural causes or otherwise. These matters need to be addressed. This is why the Minister of State has instigated the measure. Since January of this year there have been new arrangements because the Minister of State has been to the fore. He wishes to bring more transparency and to put in place a more effective situation.

At present there is a situation where HIQA is notified within 48 hours of any deaths and there is a 15 person panel, from which three are chosen to independently investigate the circumstances and whether child care provisions are working in each case. There has been a new system from January onwards which will deal with situations which have arisen since then. At the same time the Minister of State, in the aftermath of Ms Fay's situation, asked for a review group to examine cases in the past ten years of people who died in care and he is arranging to get that now. We will take whatever legislative measures are necessary, based on the advice of the Attorney General, to ensure the information is made available to these respected persons in this area, Mr. Shannon and Ms Gibbons, to complete this work satisfactorily.

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