Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)

As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle stated, the cluster of amendments before us is important. They are reflected in the statement about the function of the NAMA legislation, namely, to stabilise the banking system and to ensure a flow of credit to the institutions of the State, small and medium-size enterprises and citizens, who are the life blood of the economy.

There is not much sense in us propping up the banks, providing a bailout for the lending institutions, unless they do what they are required to do, which is to lend money. The problem is that they have not been lending thus far despite the fact that various moneys and guarantees have been put their way. I refer again to the European Investment Bank that has made money available specifically for this purpose but which has not been drawn down by the banks or financial institutions who have redefined the manner in which they do business with small and medium-size enterprises.

If we do not ensure the banks and financial institutions resume lending to small and medium-size enterprises or ordinary citizens with mortgages, we will not have conducted our business satisfactorily. The problem I have with amendment No. 127 in the Minister's name is that it is extremely tentative. It merely states that the Minister may draw up guidelines in regard to particular matters. We cannot leave this House with only that tentative arrangement in place. The Minister will have to be far more specific. I acknowledge the Minister has indicated that he intends to draw up guidelines but this is not provided for in the legislation. It should be included in the legislation that the Minister will draw up guidelines and he should specify what they will be.

Are guidelines enough? How can the Minister ensure that the banks will adhere to guidelines? This can only be done if provision in this regard is enshrined in the legislation. The Minister may put in place guidelines and the banks might totally disregard them. Did the banks improve credit flow when the Minister introduced the €500 billion bank guarantee scheme or provided €7 million to Anglo Irish Bank, Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Bank? They did not. Small and medium-size enterprises continue to be unable to access credit. The danger is that we will commit €54 billion of taxpayers' money without obtaining anything in return. The Minister is the one carrying the ball and must ensure that he does not drop it.

What is required is what comes from the Oireachtas rather than what the banks want. The banks want guidelines and targets; that is all they want. I have no doubt that is what they told the Minister, but what do we in this House want? We represent mortgage holders and the business community. We are elected to ensure that everything works and functions effectively for the Irish people and business community. If we do not do so, we do not represent the people properly. I am concerned, in terms of the tentative nature in which the Minister expresses his commitment to deal with small and medium-size enterprises and mortgage holders, that he will draw up guidelines for the banks and that will be it.

Regarding mortgage holders, Deputy Ciarán Lynch referred to the appalling scenario of 200,000 people in negative equity. This serious negative equity is not of the type being experienced by the Minister or me in terms of the mortgages we may have taken out some time ago. It is negative equity that came about in 2006 and 2007 at the height of the property bubble, when we were building 90,000 houses per annum, almost as many as were being built in England. People are in serious negative equity. There has been an approximate doubling in the number of households in receipt of mortgage interest supplement in the past 12 months. The financial institutions are making no contribution to this. The Department of Social and Family Affairs is paying out this supplement with the remainder of the mortgage being met by the householder.

What are the banks doing? What is the nature of their arrears extension? I would like to see the breakdown in this regard. It would be interesting to learn how many of them have arranged for interest only payments. We need that information. The key difficulty is that we could leave this Chamber with legislation which incorporates the provision proposed in amendment No. 127 without knowing the content of the regulations which the Minister will draw up or knowing whether he will do so. The Minister has stated that he will draw up guidelines. However, if only guidelines are set down, we will have done a poor day's work in this House. The Minister, following his return from the Seanad debate on this legislation, should commit to amendment No. 127 being jettisoned and to introducing a stronger provision that reflects the views of this House and not those of the financial institutions.

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