Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)

As Deputy Quinn and other speakers from the Labour Party said, the issue is not about ideology but methodology. However, it must be seen against a background of the failed ideology of the right, which suggested unrestrained market capitalism with light regulation was the answer to all our problems in the world and would provide money for everybody. That ideology has clearly failed in the rest of the world, but it has particularly failed in Ireland because of the property bubble. We debate the matter with that failed ideology in the background. It proposed that, somehow, greed would keep the market flowing and keep money in countries such as Ireland, but is has clearly not worked. We are described as having an ideological motivation, but the opposite is true. It is the people who criticise our ideas who have an ideological motivation. It is also interesting that many of the commentators who support us do not share the Labour Party's ideology.

People's confidence in the banking system must be restored, but they will not be confident unless the culture of banking is changed, and I see no evidence that the NAMA model will change the culture. There is no guarantee that, in five years time, when the banks have got rid of the toxic loans, they will not be doing the same things again, lending to speculative developers and starving small businesses of funds. The first thing we must do is root out the ideology that ran the banks in recent times. We must change the culture and restore people's confidence.

I, too, listened to the gentleman from ISME this morning talking about the fact that 58% of small businesses cannot get loans, which is pretty much double the percentage two years ago. There is no evidence that the Government's proposals will change that. For one thing, it seems unlikely that NAMA will be a speedy resolution because it will get tied up in the courts. In the meantime, small businesses will remain starved of funds and unable to get the money they need to keep going.

The public can help with the recovery only if they have confidence in the system. The Irish Congress of Trade Unions suggested that a national recovery bond as part of a social solidarity pact would be an innovative way for the Government to raise money, but people would buy into a new plan only if they felt it was fair. If we accept the model the Labour Party proposes, we will have public scrutiny of what goes on in the banks and the transparency we need. People will have confidence, the pension funds will have confidence, and the ordinary individual who still has money but does not want to put it in the banks will have the confidence to invest it in a national recovery bond.

In the area of health, a report has suggested that all the maternity hospitals in Dublin need to be rebuilt in the grounds of acute hospitals. Indeed, the one in my city of Limerick is in a similar situation. That is an example of how we could provide real hope for the future, because we could use national recovery bonds to build the maternity hospitals. There are models for that. Ken Livingstone was on the radio this morning talking about using a bond for the transport system in London, and the people of Texas used a bond to build the Parkland Memorial Hospital there. I raise the issue because we need to ensure that people have confidence in the system. We only have to see the news or listen to people on the doorsteps to know they do not have confidence at present. People are asking why the developers who made millions do not have to pay back these huge loans. It might have been only their last bit of speculation that got caught in the toxic loans. People are asking whether there is any way of going after them and how we know what is happening in the banks.

We cannot restore confidence if we go down the route the Government is proposing. The Labour Party's model makes sense. Deputy Quinn explained very well how it would operate in practice. If we take that route, the Irish people will regain their confidence in the banks, and so will the international markets.

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