Jim McDaid (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)

I raised this issue with the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, on a number of occasions and he is well aware of my views. It is normal that a Member on this side of the House would be 100% behind the Minister on a Private Members' motion, but when one has to take account of three community play groups, one of which in Letterkenny closed down last week, the Minister of State can understand my reservations. Despite the assurances that have been given that these staffing grants would continue until July next, these people in the voluntary sector are afraid of getting into debt and of taking on the extra staff needed because of the uncertainty.

I have worked in Departments. It is normal in social issues such as this that the Minister would bring in consultant companies to see if he or she is getting value for money. These changes were brought about as a result of the Department getting a company to undertake a value for money audit based on the original EOCP and it found that there was a certain number of people who possibly could afford to pay more and who perhaps were getting a service a little on the cheap or at a discount. These working parents do not get much on the cheap. They pay their taxes. They pay for their medical care. They pay through the nose for everything.

This company found that they were getting a service a little on the cheap. That aside, I ask the Minister to State to find out how a consultant company puts a monetary value on the aspect of a service in which adults and children from all walks of life and from all the various social classes, high earners, low earners and people on social welfare, are mixing together and learning from one another. This scheme was a perfect example of social inclusion. What monetary value can the Minister of State put on that? What criteria do these companies use in determining that as a value for money issue?

The Minister of State is spending a great deal of money on this issue and he is not getting the credit he deserves. It has been going on for six or seven years. It was a marvellous scheme and perhaps unknown to all of us, these community play groups could have possibly sown the seeds where social inclusion could have been brought from the abstract into the three dimensional. One could see social inclusion working in this play group area. One could literally reach out and touch it.

I understand that the Minister of State must collate all his data and of course we must get value for money, but when that is completed I would urge him to tell his officials to try to reinstate this scheme in a format as close as possible to the original.

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