Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I do not want to simplify the problem to the level of prison places. Nevertheless, we have increased them by more than 1,300. Even allowing for the population increase in the past ten years, the number of people in prison for serious crime, under the various new legislative measures, has substantially increased.

In reply to Deputy Kenny's question I listed the resources allocated to CAB, Operation Anvil, the Garda capital programme and the various Garda programmes and schemes to tackle identification, ballistics, fingerprinting and car plate numbers. These are all areas where the Garda needs resources to fight a more sophisticate level of crime.

The key point of what the Garda Commissioner and other senior garda state is that the high detection rates of other areas of crime are not achieved in gun crimes because in many cases the associates of the victims of gun crimes offer the gardaí no co-operation in their attempt to pursue the perpetrator. In many case, while any rational person would say it is in the interest of those associated with a victim to co-operate with the Garda, the gang culture does not allow it. Even where the gardaí are close to a situation and feel they have a good view of what has happened, the associates of a victim often will not give information. That prohibits the efforts of the Garda. In a number of recent cases the gardaí, through good intelligence and police work, got very close to arrests, convictions and the breaking up of gangs, but co-operation was not given. In some of these cases, even people who have been badly affected or beaten still do not co-operate with the Garda. This is not something that happens in the broader society but only in certain gangs, which are known to the Garda. It is a real deterrent to the Garda in carrying out their function.

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