Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I met President Mubarak on 7 December and the Prime Minister of Egypt two weeks ago. With each of them, most of the discussions focused on the Palestinian question and the Middle East issue. Ireland is one of three countries that Egypt has high regard for because of the position we have taken historically in support of the Middle East — from the time of our declared position 27 years ago in supporting calls for a Palestinian state and a two-state solution. The Minister for Foreign Affairs visited the Middle East last week to follow up on the situation.

The Deputy is correct that the situation has deteriorated, even since the meeting of 7 December. President Mubarak and King Abdullah, whom I also met, as well as a number of others, are endeavouring to put pressure on world opinion in an effort to try to bring forward some solution. The US Secretary of State, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, was in the Middle East at the same time that I was there and she visited ten countries. There is an effort in train to try to find some new way forward, although it will be extremely difficult.

They have to get the ceasefire within Palestine to hold and then some real momentum must be injected into the talks. I have been supportive of President Mubarak's position for some years in a number of areas and we have built a good relationship with the Egyptians. They have put tremendous effort into the situation.

President Mubarak declines to give a personal view of events. He believes what happened in Iraq was fundamentally wrong. He has always opposed it and his advice from the start has been consistent in this regard. However, he also holds the position that a unilateral withdrawal at this stage by the United States would be equally wrong. He does not want a fast withdrawal and he is concerned that the United States would change policy and move out. He is more concerned about this than the invasion in the first place, which he opposed. That is his stated position.

In all of these countries where there are issues of human rights, we always follow the same line, through the Department of Foreign Affairs. We raise our concerns and state our position from an EU position, which is accepted by the various countries. While I do not agree with the positions they take in Saudi Arabia, they believe they are reforming at their own pace. That is not how we would view such issues but they are moving along, regardless of how slow is progress. The last time I was in Saudi Arabia was almost 20 years ago. Things have changed, but they have their own pace and way of doing things. They talk openly about their past and they accept the position of the EU and our views. The work of Amnesty International and of the EU certainly helps to open their minds. I was there this time without any interference and I was able to meet and have direct dialogue with the women's business group, without the presence of anyone from the administration. This was unheard of three or four years ago. Members of the women's business group pointed out to me that many of the discriminatory practices were against men and they were anxious not to categorise the whole situation as a gender issue.

The German Chancellor has made the proposed EU constitution and energy the key issues of her Presidency. She has put much effort in to the constitution with her key negotiators. She wants to reach a position where a statement can be issued on where the EU should go, and this position was outlined in the Berlin declaration of 25 March. That will be taken forward from there for the second half the German Presidency. An extensive weekly contact is being carried out with all member states which is very helpful, and I appreciate the effort they are putting in with key people in every country. They hope to get agreement with everyone and they are making extensive efforts to influence the debate on the constitution among the presidential candidates in France.

There is little point in speculating. There are so many ideas and arrangements about what would happen, some of which I have no difficulty with, others with which I have a lot of difficulty. We will have to keep that closely monitored in the weeks ahead.

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