Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)

Young people who may be better off in a different environment should be identified at an earlier stage so that hey can have a positive experience. That is what schools such as St. Augustine's provide. The XLC project in Waterford also takes in children who have been removed from other schools. I do not know whether the Minister is familiar with Nuala Jackson's XLC project but she works with young people who were considered not to be capable by other schools of passing the junior certificate, for example, but who are capable of achieving good results. The project uses a pedagogue, which is inclusive of the young people. The project leaders sit down with the young people and agree with them what they might be able to achieve by setting targets, into which the young people buy. It is a different approach which is used in other countries.

The Marino Institute of Education published a report in October 2001 entitled, Addressing the Needs of Under 15s: A Study of Alternative Educational Provision in Selected Countries. It suggests that in many countries alternative provision similar to the XLC project provides an opportunity for young people who work better outside the education system. Ideally, that system should be provided in schools but, given the large class sizes in Ireland, it is much more difficult to develop that. The report states:

The Department of Education and Science has to recognise that the educational system cannot cater for the needs of all young people to whom it has a legal obligation. Therefore, alternative programmes are necessary and are needed. The educational system in Ireland has and continues to serve many young people well but it should not be expected to serve adequately all young people since certain needs and demands will exceed what the system can address.

An alternative is suggested. The Minister should consider alternative provision because I would much prefer if young people who could prosper in such a system were identified earlier and given the opportunity to succeed rather than drop out, as they would under the current system.

The latest ESRI statistics on early school leaving highlight that 18% of pupils leave school without the leaving certificate but, more disturbingly, 21% of them were still unemployed one year after leaving school compared with 11% of a similar cohort in 1999. Despite Ireland having what economists often describe as full employment, the percentage of early school leavers who end up unemployed is increasing rather than reducing. It must be recognised that the school system is not serving a significant proportion of young people. Many of them can be catered for within the system if it is amended and, for example, respect is afforded to the leaving certificate applied and it is given value by providing for points to be scored. The culture within schools should be improved so that children capable of attaining 300 points are treated the same as those capable of attaining 500 points.

It must also be recognised that an alternative system would be better for some children. Such a system should be provided and resourced. St. Augustine's in Limerick has a waiting list and people cannot get into the school, even though it is badly resourced. The XLC project in Waterford was set up privately and it is only becoming part of mainstream education now as part of the school completion programme in conjunction with schools in Waterford. Many of the alternatives had to be set up by committed people, not by the system. We need to be more holistic about this issue and to address it in a child and student-centred manner rather than make it an issue about children who cause trouble for everyone. They too have a right to education and we must balance their rights with those of others. I accept what Deputy Enright and her colleagues have said about the rights of the other children in a school. However, we will never solve the problem unless we also address the rights and needs of children who do not fit into school. That is the reason I wanted to focus on this area which often gets little attention.

I am glad to see that people like Nuala Jackson in Waterford are finally being heard. I hope we will hear John Hanna's voice in the final report of the task force, which we have not got yet. I have heard him speak many times about how these young people begin to blossom when they realise they can be a success and are not constantly described as not being able to fit into the system. There was a time when if children did not behave they were put in the corner. Whatever happens as a result of the task force report, I would not like to think that we will simply send these children to the corner. We must address their needs or — I do not like saying this following what happened on Saturday — many of them will end up breaking blocks and throwing stones, or in the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's new fancy prison in north Dublin.

We must intervene at an early stage where we identify problems and the education system is the best tool we have to do this. We must give children with learning difficulties or disinterested home backgrounds the support they need in school. We must also provide for the needs of these children at second level.

This debate has been useful, but I am sorry it is not taking place in the context of having the full report.

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