Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I hold a slightly different view to a number of my colleagues. I take their points on the reserve and volunteer police force. There are some positive examples of good practice. I recall a trip to London with the Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. In one community I had a positive experience of a reserve officer working with children at risk and young girls involved in child prostitution, and dealing with anti-social behaviour. She was a reserve officer and was very much involved in crime prevention, but there was a clear distinction between her and the full-time community police officers and other officers. She made a major contribution to the estate in which she operated. She was a woman in her mid-twenties.

When the programme began there were many cynics within the force, who were concerned that the programme would produce "yellow pack" positions. She broke down the barriers with the community police officers advising her. There was a clear distinction between her powers and those of the rest of the force.

There are examples of good practice and we should not be afraid to consider them. On that trip I also met community police officers who spent 80% of their time in the community. This is something we need to examine. If we have community gardaí, we must ensure they are not in offices or attending meetings or book launches. They should spend 80% to 90% of their time in the community. That part of London had major problems with anti-social behaviour. I was impressed by the way in which the local authority and the community police officers worked together as a team in dealing with anti-social behaviour, including violence and graffiti. When local people approached community police officers, within five or six weeks a programme was put into effect to remove car wrecks and graffiti, or deal positively with the known leaders of anti-social behaviour in the area.

I realise some people have concerns about the idea of reserve police forces. Historically I also have some personal baggage concerning them. The public must have confidence in fully trained officers, particularly in disadvantaged areas. Last night I received a call from a part of my constituency where the community is being dominated by 20 to 25 local teenagers who are out of control. Drugs are involved also. The community is not happy with the response of local gardaí. It is not acceptable for such communities, particularly those in disadvantaged areas, to be left to their own devices. Fully trained officers are required to place a strong emphasis on community policing. Gardaí cannot go into communities demanding respect, they must earn that respect. There are examples of good practice where gardaí have proved they can bring a community with them when they deliver a service, rather than flying in and out every now and again.

While those points relate to the positive side of the debate, the negative side arises from my historical baggage, including my experience of the police force in the North. At the hearings of the sub-committee into the Barron report, examples were cited where members of loyalist paramilitary groups, or people sympathetic to them, infiltrated the reserve police force in Northern Ireland. Some of the suspects in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings had connections with the North's reserve police force. These are matters of concern to me.

I fully accept we have to reform the Garda Síochána and in that respect I accept many of the proposals in the Bill. We must also ensure, however, that it is not just a legislative issue — it is about people going to work for eight hours a day. That core issue applies equally to refuse collectors, gardaí and civil servants. In this House we often forget examples of the unsung heroes in society to which nobody refers. The Minister should use this opportunity to push the Minister for Finance to provide for the appointment of the extra 2,000 gardaí that were promised.

I strongly support the concerns expressed about the Bill by groups such as the Human Rights Commission and the Irish Council for Civil Liberties with regard to human rights. A number of Deputies have referred to those concerns.

Amendment No. 68 provides that the Garda Commissioner may determine the range of powers involved, but I would be cautious about this. The details should be laid out more clearly and there are examples in other jurisdictions that could be followed in this regard.

People should be open-minded about the issues involved. There are examples of good practice by other police forces in different communities. We must also be cautious about a reserve police force, however, and ensure the calibre and integrity of those joining it. Other Deputies have referred to people in their own communities who would not be suitable members of a reserve police force. It would be a disaster if they joined. On the other hand, there are qualified people who want to make a contribution to society. They do not need to have the same powers as the Garda Síochána, so that is not an issue. A reserve or volunteer police force should support the Garda Síochána and the community by preventing crime.

Crime prevention is a major issue. Sensible gardaí know that if they wander down to the local chip shop at 1.30 a.m. and stand around for a few hours on a Saturday night or early on Sunday morning, they can prevent a lot of anti-social behaviour, including fighting outside chippers and pubs. When gardaí undertake such patrols they can cut crime and anti-social behaviour by 50% or 60%. I have seen it happen in my constituency, particularly in the Coolock area. When young and ambitious gardaí are determined to do their jobs well, they can focus on the issues and win the respect of a local community. That is the way forward.

It is not just a question of legislation, although we should be responsible in supporting radical reform. We should not delay such reform and this is where I disagree with some of my colleagues on the Opposition benches. If people want to reform the Garda Síochána then let us table positive amendments to that effect. We must realise, however, that we cannot wait around here for the next ten years to do so.

I have tried to be positive in making constructive comments in this debate. While I share some of the concerns that have been raised about the proposal for a reserve police force, I encourage people to be open-minded about it.

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