Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

Whether one breaks the law by one mile or 50 miles, one deserves the punishment that goes with the crime. Gardaí should not involve themselves in the administration of road traffic offences.

Section 9 deals with the appointment of the Garda Commissioner. It is often said on some of the popular chat shows that the Garda Commissioner should be appointed from outside the Garda Síochána. I would be very much opposed to that. That is akin to saying the Taoiseach should be appointed from outside politics. Political representatives are elected by the public. The best person for the job is someone from the Garda force. It is important that position remains within the remit of the Garda because a garda, through his or her involvement with the force over many years, attains certain skills which someone even from another security background could not match.

Section 14 deals with the volunteer force, a subject alluded to by previous speakers. While I welcome the principle I am concerned that the standing of the gardaí would be undermined by a force that may not have met the same training requirements but yet have the same powers. That area must be examined. If such a force had the same powers as the gardaí, what is the point in training the gardaí to a different level or vice versa? I would be wary of giving this force the same powers as the gardaí. There must be a demarcation line in terms of powers, otherwise some gardaí will be better trained than others and that will undermine the morale of the main force.

Section 15 deals with a form of attestation, the swearing of allegiance and a commitment by gardaí not to involve themselves in any political party or secret society. It is difficult to get people involved in political parties nowadays — I would not say there is a great demand for that but it is important that members of the Garda are impartial. They started off in very difficult circumstances, as outlined by my colleague, Deputy Deenihan, and they have rightly remained politically neutral, irrespective of the Government in power. They work to the best of their ability for the Minister for Justice of the day.

Section 16 deals with a code of ethics. Perhaps it is the way society has evolved, but I listened to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government talk about enshrining in the guidelines the need for planners to be courteous. There may be some basis for that. We can all argue individual cases but it is a sad day when we have to enshrine in codes of practice the need to be courteous to people. In terms of the gardaí, we can all relate our own bad experiences, but for every bad experience, we have had 100 good experiences.

Section 18 deals with civilian staff of the Garda Síochána. I note from the Disability Bill that the Garda Síochána is excluded from the requirement that 3% of the force be made up of people with disabilities. I hope the Minister will allow a certain number of people with disabilities to apply and be appointed to the various civilian positions. Perhaps that aspect should be addressed in the Disability Bill rather than this Bill — the Minister's official might take a note of it.

Sections 19 to 22, inclusive, deal with the concept of the Minister having an operational input into the Garda Síochána. One sees danger when one reads that. Is it right that a politician should direct the Garda Commissioner? The Minister is given stringent powers over the Commissioner. There are pros and cons. Many Members complain about the way politicians have handed over power to, say, Bord Fáilte, An Bord Pleanála and so on and that we should take responsibility for political actions. If the Minister is behaving in an improper manner and not in the best service of the people, there is a forum here for him to be dealt with and, ultimately, the public can deal with him. In the current scenario the Minister always retorts to parliamentary questions by saying he does not have operational responsibility. It may not, therefore, be a bad approach in the grand scheme of things. I hope Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will adopt a sensible approach, irrespective of who they are, which does not involve changing things radically. I do not mean we should never make changes, but change for its own sake or to make a mark can be dangerous.

Sections 21 and 29 deal with two hobby horses of mine, one of which involves the geographic areas of responsibility of the Garda. I assume Garda districts as currently established were created at the foundation of the State, a matter which must be addressed. I recommend change on a county basis, especially in the outlying areas outside Dublin. There are three or four superintendents with responsibility for different parts of County Wicklow which makes it very difficult to discover who is in charge. The public do not know who their local superintendent is unless it is in a rural area where he or she is long established. It is difficult to provide accountability in such circumstances. I hope the Commissioner will, with the approval of the Minister, consider redrawing the areas of operational responsibility of the various districts along county lines. Redrawn districts would be much more beneficial and would allow people to identify more readily the areas of responsibility.

Section 29 deals with the distribution of gardaí. In the Wicklow-Wexford area, there is approximately one garda for every 730 people whereas there is one for every 200 in Cork and one for every 300 in Dublin, despite the fact that the population is very tightly knit. The Commissioner must consider the redeployment of gardaí under the powers granted to him in section 29. As one does not like to uproot people with family ties in an area, and we refer regularly to involving gardaí in communities, graduates from Templemore should be placed in areas in which there is a low ratio of gardaí in the population.

If one examined the figures in detail, one would find a high ratio in Border areas, which proportion it may no longer be necessary to sustain. There are areas of rapidly increasing population in Meath, Kildare and Wicklow which have low garda numbers for purely historical reasons. That is an issue that must be addressed. Garda numbers in Greystones, Blessington and Enniskerry are low and there are some locations which do not have Garda stations. We must increase the Garda presence to allow people who come into communities to rest assured in their beds at night that there are adequate numbers of gardaí on the streets.

Section 26 deals with payment for services. I noted the recent claim by the Minister for Defence that banks will pay the Defence Forces for cash escorts in line with practice in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The section refers to the provision of services for concerts or functions at which it is deemed there may be a security or public order threat and at which large numbers may gather. I am slightly uneasy about the provisions. While it is populist to say the banks should be charged, and I like the sound of the proposal, I am concerned about the principle involved. Will it depend on the level of funding available to one whether one can purchase the services of an arm of the State? I would like to think that in a democratic republic the institutions of the State would protect any individual going about his or her routine business, be it social or otherwise.

While I do not say services have been abused to date, it is up to the State to create an environment in which one can carry out routine activities. Many of the events outlined in section 26 are routine and ordinary. Some business may be able to afford to pay for Garda services and act responsibly, but others may decide to take a chance. We may end up with a ministerial directive to the effect that anyone who holds a function which will be attended by more than 100 people, such as a wedding, must have a Garda presence. What if it is the second wedding of a divorcee? While the question is a little flippant, it illustrates the point I wish to make. Where will the line be drawn and how will such events be dealt with? While supporters at a football match between Kerry and Wexford are generally very compliant, those from other counties might not be.

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