Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)

Before the adjournment of this debate, I welcomed this Bill and complimented the gardaí. I spoke about the success of setting up the Garda Síochána and the successful policing operations the body has carried out. I now wish to mention some the difficulties the Garda Síochána experiences. There is often a lack of direction and management in how the gardaí operate and how they acquire access to resources. In Mullingar, the Garda was short a number of squad cars and some gardaí had to use their own cars to do their jobs. This is a ridiculous way to do business.

In the last few days, a garda in the community, who has teenage children himself, raised a query with me to which he is unable to get a response. We are now approaching the period where debs balls are taking place around the country. Schoolchildren attend these events and they are generally very successful. With the introduction of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, children under 18 are no longer allowed to be on a licensed premises after 9 p.m. What is the status of debs balls that take place in licensed premises? The people attending these events can often be as young as 15 and only a small proportion of them are over 18. Yet in most cases, the bars are open. How stands the legality of this issue? It is imperative that the Minister clarifies the issue so well-meaning gardaí, who want what is best for our communities, do not get caught off-side when intervening.

Members will recall that deportation orders were applied to mainly Nigerian citizens in this country, many of whom had lived here for quite some time. There were two ladies in my constituency who lived in Athlone. They were deported even though their children had been in school in Athlone for quite some time. They had integrated into the community and there was a great deal of local support for them to remain there. I emphasise that this does not concern the activities of the local Garda force, but rather the gardaí from the national immigration bureau who swept into Athlone to do their job. I wish to quote from a letter from Mr. Noel Casey, the deputy principal of Our Lady's Bower secondary school in Athlone. I know Mr. Casey who is an extremely dedicated teacher and does his job in an exemplary fashion. His letter outlines the events that occurred recently in that girls' school. It states:

At approximately 4 p.m. I was supervising evening study in the central area [of the school]. I saw a lady stride purposefully into the school followed by a uniformed female Garda who had a very distressed Ms Odunsi [she was the lady who was to be deported], Ayo's mother, by the arm [this was not a grip of support but of restraint, the Garda never let go of Ms Odunsi's arm while they were in the school. I knew who these people were so I left the study area to talk to them. They had turned into the school office and as I entered the area I heard the plain clothes officer loudly look for Ayo [who was one of the students]. I informed this lady that I had sent Ayo home at 3.30 p.m. This lady then motioned me to one side and asked me where Ayo was, I told her again that I had sent Ayo home. The officer seemed to become angry with this response and she demanded an explanation. I informed her that school ends at 3.30 p.m. and that I had no direction from anybody to do anything different. The officer again demanded information on Ayo's whereabouts so I called to Mariann Oviawe [another Nigerian] who was standing nearby to give whatever information she had regarding Ayo. Mariann simply stated that Ayo had gone home. The officer aggressively demanded Mariann's name and seemed to imply some sort of threat against her if she did not give any more information. Mariann insisted that as far as she knew Ayo had gone home. She did not know where Ayo was. The officer then turned on her heel and stormed out of the school. The uniformed Garda took Ayo's mother out to their car.

In her time at the school the plain clothes officer failed to show any ID, she never identified herself, she never stated her business. She did behave in an aggressive and threatening manner. Ms Odunsi attempted to talk to me and this officer aggressively told her to be quiet and not to be foolish.

This entire incident was witnessed by approximately 100 students who were in the study and the students who were waiting for lifts and buses by the school door. A number of staff members were also present.

That incident happened in a secondary school in County Westmeath. The Garda in question did not identify herself, although I presume she was a Garda, but would only say that she was going about her duty, which was perhaps a difficult one. Surely, however, there are better ways and means of doing one's work. Over the years the Garda Síochána has built up a rapport with the public whose trust and friendship they have earned. Such activities as outlined the letter are not the way to assure local people that everybody will be treated humanely. It is outrageous that this activity took place. The school in question has a particularly good relationship with local gardaí but the gardaí involved in this case had come from out of town.

Turning to other provisions of the Bill, I welcome the facility to establish local policing committees in consultation and association with local authorities. Like many other Members of the House, I welcome the establishment of such bodies. Public representatives and others have a big role to play in such committees because major difficulties are emerging on housing estates. Even in my own town of Mullingar, gardaí are reluctant to enter some estates at night-time due to difficulties they may encounter there. Late at night, the clientele of various nightclubs spill out on to the streets at the same time. Thousands of young people may congregate on the streets, which makes for difficult policing. Community endeavour is required to seek solutions to ease the situation and make life safer not just for the Garda Síochána but for the local communities. Establishment of local policing bodies will help to achieve that.

I agree with other speakers who have said membership of such bodies should not be confined to public representatives. For example, residents' associations comprising fair-minded people with inside knowledge, could have a good input into such committees. They should form part of the selection process for local policing committees. We should not confine the membership entirely to local elected representatives, but should try to make the composition of the committees as broadly based as possible.

We should also carefully examine the way in which such committees will carry out their work. I have an open mind as to whether this work should be done in public or private. If it takes place in public session there will not be the kind of exchange of ideas, including frank discussions, that might be necessary to make such bodies work well. Perhaps there is a case to be made for such bodies to meet in private but issue an agreed concluding statement.

I wanted to refer to other items but unfortunately time has caught up with me. I thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, for having allowed me to contribute to this debate.

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