Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

There are two issues. One is affordability given that the extension of the scheme would cost between €10 million and €19 million approximately, and the other is a legal issue relating to the EU. We shall have to focus on the second issue to see what is possible. One could then see if one could afford it. I am sure the Deputy will not mind if I pay tribute to Deputy Stagg who has raised this issue with me on many occasions and has also done so privately. He feels strongly about this issue and asked whether it could be confined to pensioners pre-1953.

The free travel scheme is available to everyone here over the age of 66 years. Some 650,000 people are entitled to use it. It has nothing to do with pensions. Everybody over the age of 66 years, irrespective of pension or means, is entitled to free travel. If we were to take the worst case scenario and if the EU equality rule provides that all citizens be treated equally, we would then have to treat everybody over the age of 66 years in the EU to free travel in Ireland. The issue of whether it could be confined to all those over the age of 66 years who are Irish citizens has other legal implications for our membership of the Union. That is probably not practical either.

The Deputy asked if it could be confined to Irish pensioners abroad. It is not confined to Irish pensioners in Ireland but to those over 66 years of age. If it were to be confined to Irish pensioners abroad, then Irish citizens abroad who are not pensioners would not be entitled to it. There is a whole mosaic of questions which arise from the bigger picture. I have asked my officials to raise this matter with the EU with a view to making some progress. Approximately 40,000 Irish citizens in the UK are in receipt of Irish pensions. An extension of the scheme could not be confined to the UK but would have to include the rest of the EU. In the event that there are approximately 10,000 in other parts of the EU, there may be 50,000 or 60,000 in receipt of Irish pensions in the EU. If that number was added to the present stock of approximately 660,000 the increase would be of the order of 8% to 10%. That might be manageable if one was allowed confine it to Irish pensioners living in the European Union. One would then have to consider those in the US. How does one ring-fence it? Those are the issues involved. I have asked the Department to speed up its examination of those issues. Even before looking at the question of money we need to sort out what is permitted to us under the EU and where we draw the line. This happens not only in the area of free travel but right across the board in a whole range of concessions that we would like to extend to the Irish abroad. However, there are huge practical implications in trying to do it.

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