Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

As stated in the programme for Government, best international practice is a class size of 20 children per teacher. We have significantly reduced class size to 23.9 children. Deputy Rabbitte is also aware of the policy to support small rural schools, of which there are 600 or 700. That has been a good policy. These one or two-teacher schools are small but they are based in their communities. It is part of the rural renewal process of keeping schools in rural communities. We made a decision to do that rather than close or rationalise them. Otherwise, children would have further to travel to school. In some of these small schools it is difficult to manage class size. Half the schools in the country have four teachers or fewer. Therefore, when one factors in such matters one can appreciate the practical issues involved. Nevertheless, we are reducing the ratio and, in disadvantaged and special need areas, teacher-pupil ratios are now 1:15 and 1:20 and we will continue to invest additional resources.

In recent years the Government has hired more than 4,000 extra primary teachers and more than 2,000 extra post-primary teachers, which represents an enormous increase in the education budget, which has doubled from €3 billion to more than €7 billion. Approximately 47,000 pupils in 234 disadvantaged schools are now in reduced class sizes of between 15 and 20 and support for these schools is a priority. I am glad Deputy Rabbitte agrees that the correct approach involves not treating every area as equal because they are not. As a result of family circumstances, education and inherent problems over many decades certain areas require additional resources. In regard to resources, I have always argued that rather than trying to carry out a mathematical exercise, which many would have one do, and placing teachers with a certain number of pupils while stating that the ratio is the same everywhere, one should examine the areas which need the resources most.

This is the correct approach in order to give people a break. If children do not get a break in primary school they will not get a break anywhere else. That is the Government's policy and one which has enabled it to achieve ratios of 1:15 and 1:20. It is the correct policy.

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