Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 19 November 2025
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport
National Roads, Light Rail and Metro: Discussion
2:00 am
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Good morning all. The purpose of today's meeting is for the joint committee to discuss national roads, light rail and metro with Transport Infrastructure Ireland and the National Roads Authority. Today, on behalf of the committee, I am pleased to welcome from Transport Infrastructure Ireland, Mr. Lorcan O'Connor, chief executive, Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick, head of roads and greenways capital programme, Dr. Sean Sweeney, MetroLink programme director, and Mr. Paolo Carbone, head of public transport capital projects within TII. From the National Transport Authority, I welcome Mr. Hugh Creegan, interim chief executive, and Mr. Eoin Gillard, assistant director of transport investment. I will repeat the note on privilege.
Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction.
Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask members partaking via MS Teams that prior to making their contribution to the meeting, they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.
I now invite Mr. O'Connor to make his opening statement on behalf of Transport Infrastructure Ireland.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I thank the committee for the opportunity to be here today. My colleagues here have already been introduced, so I will turn straight to the remit of TII. This is primarily in relation to national roads, as set out in the Roads Act 1993, and is "to secure the provision of a safe and efficient network of national roads" having regard to the needs of all users. The national road network makes up approximately 5,400 km of motorways, national primary routes and national secondary routes. While this accounts for only 5% of all public roads, it does account for 45% of all vehicle kilometres. In 2015, the Roads Act was amended to include the function to secure the provision of, or to provide, such metro and light railway infrastructure as may be determined by the Minister for Transport, or in the case of the greater Dublin area, by the National Transport Authority, NTA. In relation to roads, it tends to be the local authorities that are the sponsoring agencies and TII the approving authority. In relation to metro and light railway projects, TII is the sponsoring agency and the NTA is the approving authority.
Recent railway orders for MetroLink and the Luas to Finglas and the publication in September of the revised national development plan, NDP, as well as the imminent publication of a multiyear funding programme under the transport sectoral plan, mean it is an exciting time for TII. It is also hoped the accelerating infrastructure report, when published, will serve to introduce solutions to address many of the challenges that have delayed the delivery of critical infrastructure up to this point. All these factors combined mean TII is focused on a decade of delivery to address the obvious transport infrastructure deficits that we have. The NDP review published in September of this year sets out the high-level intent of the Government to support the delivery of critical transport infrastructure and to protect the State’s previous investment in respect of the existing transport network. For the period 2026 to 2030, the plan envisages over €22 billion for the transport sector, together with an additional provision of €2 billion from the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund for MetroLink.
To take each category briefly in turn, starting with national roads, in 2025, €323 million was provided for planning, design and construction of new road projects. Most of this funding will cover the Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge road, the Cork to Ringaskiddy road and the Adare bypass. A total of €676 million will be spent on national roads asset management, minor safety improvements, public-private partnerships, PPPs, the delivery of the zero-emissions vehicle programme and operations and general maintenance, that is, everything beyond new road projects. The total funding available to TII for this category of activity comes from a mix of Exchequer grants, revenue from TII's toll operations and the M50 eFlow and Dublin Port Tunnel.
TII recognises that the NDP funding for the previous plan prioritised programmes other than national roads. This has caused a significant backlog of pavement renewals to build up and the condition of the carriageways for many national roads is deteriorating. Transport Infrastructure Ireland is engaging with the Department of Transport with a view to tackling this backlog and securing the long-term performance of the national road network. Under our mandate, we are also supporting the roll-out of electric vehicle charging. There is some detail on this aspect in the opening statement supplied to the committee. In the third phase of the zero emission vehicles Ireland, ZEVI, programme, we will largely have a comprehensive network around the country that should finally tackle range anxiety.
Turning to light rail, and new projects in the light rail programme, TII is advancing major light rail projects across Dublin and Cork in collaboration with the NTA. The NTA provides funding to TII for the purposes of delivering light railways. In Dublin, expansion of the Luas network is progressing, including to Finglas, Lucan, and Poolbeg. In the case of Finglas, we received planning consent only at the end of last month, with preparation for approval gate 2 submission to NTA under way, which, if approved and subject to confirmation of funding, will allow commencement of the tender process for the main construction contract. Once the tendering process is complete, it is subject to approval gate 3. The potential is there for tram passenger services to begin four years from the time the construction contract commences. The route selection for the Lucan Luas is ongoing, with an emerging preferred route expected to be published in the first half of 2026. Subject to funding and approvals, we could have a railway order submitted by the end of 2028. A feasibility study being carried out by TII for the Luas Poolbeg is under review now by the National Transport Authority. In Cork, TII is refining the proposed light rail route following public consultation, with a revised route due in 2026. Subject to funding and approvals, a railway order could be submitted in 2028.
In relation to the network management for Luas, TII is responsible for the operation, maintenance and asset management of the existing network in Dublin, which has expanded significantly since it first opened in 2004. The Luas is now operating over 43 km, with 67 stops and three maintenance depots. The light rail network is busy, and patronage growth has rebounded strongly since the Covid-19 pandemic and TII is expecting passenger journeys to exceed 54 million this year. Luas has catalysed compact, high-density housing near tram stops, thereby supporting sustainable urban growth. Areas like Cherrywood, Sandyford, Citywest and the Docklands have seen significant residential expansion adjacent to the Luas network and we estimate today that over 400,000 people live within 1 km of the Luas network. The current annual operations and maintenance cost to provide the services is in the region of €100 million, with revenue from fares and advertising close to €60 million. The budget for asset management, renewals and network enhancement projects is expected to increase significantly from current levels as the asset base ages to approximately €50 million per annum.
Last, I turn to MetroLink. The railway order for MetroLink was approved by An Comisiún Pleanála at the beginning of October. This represents a major milestone for the programme and for Ireland. MetroLink is now formally approved and the pathway to delivery is clear. As in the case of the Luas to Finglas, we are currently in the eight-week period during which a judicial review may be sought, so I will not spend too much time on the specifics of the order itself. However, I do want to take this opportunity to give the committee an update on progress, cost and schedule.
The most recent cost estimate for MetroLink, taken from the preliminary business case, is €9.5 billion, which does not include VAT. It is important to note that this figure is three years old and does not reflect significant construction industry inflation in recent years. A number of new requirements and commitments will also be incorporated through the railway order process, all of which will influence the updated cost profile. The MetroLink team is in the process of re-examining the overall cost forecast model. It is using industry experts, like Oxford Global Projects, to verify the work. Once this has been completed and verified, it will be presented to the Government.
In terms of a schedule, we are still working towards opening in the mid-2030s. As with all major infrastructure projects, both cost and schedule remain estimates until we reach contract award and a signed agreement with the construction partner. At that point, will we have definitive figures.
It is worth restating how significant MetroLink will be for the country and the capital. It will complement the Luas, the DART, the BusConnects network and our intercity rail networks, creating a fully integrated transport system that delivers real connectivity for Dublin and beyond. When complete, it will be capable of transporting up to 20,000 people per hour, per direction, bringing passengers from Dublin Airport to the city centre in just 20 minutes. This is more than a transport project; it is a nation-building programme, supporting economic growth, sustainable travel, and Ireland’s transition to a low-carbon future. Most importantly, it is about getting working people home to their families quicker and safer each day.
I thank the committee for the opportunity of updating it. I look forward to taking any questions.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. O'Connor. I now invite Mr. Creegan to make his opening statement on behalf of the National Transport Authority, NTA.
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
I thank the Cathaoirleach and committee members for the invitation to appear before them today. I understand that the committee wishes to discuss national roads, light rail and metro. To assist me in dealing with questions that may arise during the session, I am joined by Mr. Gillard.
As the committee will be aware, while the NTA has some involvement in national roads through the regional transport strategies that we prepare, our main area of responsibility relates to public transport. Within the greater Dublin Area, the NTA has the function, under the applicable legislation, to “secure the provision of, or to provide, public transport infrastructure”. The legislation goes on to state that the NTA "shall, as far as possible, arrange that the functions ... be performed on its behalf in relation to ... metro or light railway infrastructure" by TII while retaining the right to undertake the function itself where the NTA considers it “more convenient, more expeditious, more effective or more economical”.
Within this remit, the NTA works on a collaborative basis with TII to advance a number of light rail projects and the MetroLink project. In terms of alignment with the infrastructure guidelines, the NTA acts as the approving authority on light rail and metro schemes and provides oversight and funding through the Department of Transport for these projects.
The metropolitan area transport strategies that are now in place for Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford provide the strategic planning foundation for all urban rail projects and, in the case of Dublin, the statutory basis for the development of individual rail-based schemes. The Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy 2022-2042 is the statutory transport strategy for the region, providing for the implementation of the MetroLink project and including for the ultimate development of 12 new or extended Luas lines in the Dublin region.
In the case of Cork, the Cork metropolitan area transport strategy sets out the intent to develop a light rail line from Ballincollig to the west of the city to Mahon in the east. In Galway, a feasibility study has been undertaken in relation to the potential of a Luas line through the city, and it is intended to take account of that feasibility study in the next update of the Galway transport strategy, which the NTA intends to undertake shortly.
In relation to MetroLink, the approval of the scheme by An Coimisiún Pleanála at the start of last month is welcome, as is the strong commitment by the Government to its delivery, in particular under the national development plan review published some months ago. While there is still an immense amount of work to be done, this approval allows the project to progress into the procurement stages and on to construction.
This concludes my opening remarks, and I welcome any questions that members of the committee may have.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Creegan. I now invite questions from members. I propose an initial allocation of seven minutes with a follow-up opportunity of a further three minutes during the second round. First on today's rota is Senator Joanne Collins.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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Welcome everyone and I thank the witnesses for giving up their time to be here. I have a couple of questions, so I might fire out the questions and if they get to them, they get to them, and if they do not, we will come back to them in the second round.
First, both the NTA and TII emphasised in their opening statements the MetroLink project and the expansion of the Luas. Do they have any guarantees today of what investment the likes of rural Ireland might see? Will it be as passionately prioritised as MetroLink and the Luas, considering we do not have light rail outside of Dublin?
Second, the witnesses highlighted the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund. How will rural communities benefit from the low-carbon transport investment, given the absence of light rail and metro outside of Dublin and Cork?
I will throw out one more question. Of the €676 million allocated to asset management in 2025, how much of that will directly benefit the rural and national roads where we have safety concerns and there are accident blackspots? Will there be an allocation outside of Dublin for these roads?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I thank the Senator for those questions. In terms of balanced regional development, that is a key feature of very many planning policies that are in place. I see the metro project as very much a national one, given the significance of that and the criticality of it for the efficient operation of Dublin. As we have mentioned, we are looking at having the Luas in both Cork and, potentially in time, in Galway but it is part of a much wider transport strategy led by the NTA to ensure there is that balanced regional development.
On the roads side, the vast majority of our national roads are outside of Dublin and we are seeing that, as we look to see both new projects and the ongoing maintenance of our network, various aspects are taken into account from safety at one end of the equation through to ensuring we have the balanced regional development that is so important for a sustainable future. There is general acceptance that, for a long-term, sustainable position for Ireland, we cannot have everything concentrated in Dublin or on the east coast and we need those counterbalances around the country. We will certainly be very supportive of that from a TII perspective.
On the low-carbon programme, TII is looking at the ZEVI programme, which is the roll-out of the electrical chargers for electric vehicles, EVs, around the country. From a public transport perspective, we are generally looking at a transition from the traditional diesel engine through to EVs, whether that is in buses, trains or private cars.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I have one other question on the MetroLink. I know Mr. Creegan is saying it is a national project. I have another idea of it. Since it is only based in Dublin, it is very hard for me to see how it is a national project. Unless someone comes to Dublin, he or she does not get to use the MetroLink. The estimates as to what the MetroLink project will cost are outdated. Are there safeguards in place to ensure that when the actual cost of the MetroLink comes in, there will not be a pull from the rest of the country and from buses, rail and light rail to feed into the cost of the MetroLink and that we will not lose any other services or see them reduced?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I will ask Dr. Sean Sweeney, the director of MetroLink, to talk to that in a moment. I suggest it is very much a national programme. It will be a connected line when it is delivered, including connections at Cabra, in terms of the intercity rail network, but also various other train stations. Even for the general economic growth and standing for Ireland Inc., the MetroLink is important. As we are all aware, there is very significant multinational investment into this country on an ongoing basis, and having the likes of the MetroLink project delivered is critical for them to retain confidence in this country, I would suggest.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I agree. I am not against the MetroLink project.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I am not against the MetroLink for one minute. It will be fantastic but, being from County Limerick, I probably will never use it unless it will link to Limerick train station. My point was that it probably will not be used by a lot of people outside of Dublin, but not for one minute am I against it and I agree we need these systems in place to bring in that foreign investment and those companies. However, they do not all sit on the east coast. There are a lot of companies in the Shannon region as well that probably will not benefit from the MetroLink but I do get what Mr. O'Connor is saying.
Dr. Sean Sweeney:
With respect to cost, the costs that are in the public domain at the moment are based on the 2022 business case. They derive from a range-of-costs basis from 2014 to 2019 and were escalated to be used in that business case. They contain a lot of approximations. They were suitable for the purpose for which they were used. We have embarked on a comprehensive re-costing of the project. At the same time, the construction design is being completed. We are working in parallel with that. We are looking at a complete re-cost that will come out early next year. Even that will be based on earlier designs because the actual tender designs will not be complete until next month. A full costing exercise can take between three and six months and if we waited, we would not be getting a cost back to the Government until the middle of the year. We are looking at a greatly updated set of costs coming out early next year.
We are doing our review, to answer part of the question. An independent pricing firm is looking at our work as well. We are also engaging a firm called Oxford Global Projects to reference what we are doing against the cost base. We are doing all we could feasibly do to get a real and accurate cost at a time. I stress to the committee that in my experience, construction is a highly uncertain process. Projects such as this are of enormous scale and complexity, and it is beyond human comprehension to identify every risk and complexity in the pricing. There is always an element that will not be there. We are doing what we think is a very thorough job to present updated costs early next year.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I will ask Ms Fitzpatrick for an update on the N24. As people know, I live in Clonmel. The project is divided into two sections. The first is Cahir to Limerick, which is progressing to detailed design, and hopefully a planning application will be lodged by the middle of next year. We have come to a complete standstill on the Cahir to Waterford section, particularly the proposed routes in terms of solving the issue of the significant traffic passing through Clonmel. On the bypass of Clonmel, there are 20,000 vehicle movements per day. For reasons not clear to me, a decision has been made not to progress the Cahir to Waterford section from phase 2 to that detailed design and planning phase, the same stage that the other section of the N24 is at. Perhaps Ms Fitzpatrick would give an update as to where we are and whether we can move forward next year on the Cahir to Waterford section. I am particularly concerned about the impact the lack of progress is having on Clonmel and for us, at the local level, in respect of the ambition and vision we have for the town, which is so constrained by the lack of progress on this key infrastructure project. I know there are other elements further down in Kilsheelan and Carrick-on-Suir, but it is the proposed two outer link roads for Clonmel that I am anxious to see progress.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
As the Cathaoirleach has set out, the N24 between Cahir and Limerick is more advanced than the other section from Waterford to Cahir. That project is progressing through the process. We anticipate it will go in for gate 1, which is approval to go to planning, next year.
For the section from Cahir to Waterford, money was an issue for the last number of years and progress has been slower. The county council has written to us seeking approval to go to the next phase. It has identified the preferred solution for the project and will submit a request to us for approval to go to the next phase. We would anticipate that subject to funding, which is to be advised to TII later this month, we will be in a position to give approval to go to the next phase, which is the more detailed level of design. It is progressing. It is probably a year to a year and a half behind the first section. We fully acknowledge that this project is needed to address issues in Cahir and the other section is needed to address issues in Tipperary and all the towns and villages along the route. I hope that when the sectoral plan is announced and the funding is confirmed, we will be able to provide more clarity.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Can I get a timeline for that announcement? Does TII expect to make an announcement for 2026 before the end of 2025 or will any announcement run into January or February of next year?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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As a representative of south Tipperary, I would press upon Ms Fitzpatrick to progress that Cahir to Waterford section, particularly as it applies to Clonmel.
I will use the second half of my allocated time to discuss the recent toll increases. The board of TII announced an increase of 10 cent to the M50 toll for tag users, which puzzles me, from 1 January. There was also a decision to increase the Dublin Port tunnel toll by €1 at peak times, going from €12 to €13. I want to be clear that I think the board of TII should reflect on that decision. I understand that under contractual obligations, the eight public-private partnership, PPP, motorways are outside its control, but TII has direct control over any decision to increase or reduce tolls on the M50 and at the Dublin Port tunnel. Once upon a time, these were optional routes but that is no longer the case. They are absolutely necessary for families and individuals getting to work, medical appointments and bringing children to school. The taxpayer has stepped up to the mark in terms of funding for TII for next year. The allocation of €2.8 billion this year will be increased to €3.4 billion next year, which is an increase of 19%. On the one hand, the taxpayer has provided more than one fifth of increased funding for next year. What does TII do? It taxes the taxpayer more by increasing these tolls. I cannot understand the decision to penalise tag users. They are the users who use the M50 the most so it is particularly unfair. I appeal to TII to reflect on the decision to increase those tolls. I would like the witnesses to bring that message back to the board. I am sure other members will raise the issue, particularly in the context of the substantial increase in funding provided by the taxpayer to TII for next year. For it to turn around and increase tolls, which are under its control, on the M50 and the Dublin Port tunnel at peak times is so unfair on hard-pressed motorists. I would like the witnesses to comment and I would like them to bring that message back to the board. I ask the board of TII to reflect on that decision.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I thank the Cathaoirleach. I am happy to bring that message back to the board. I assure the Cathaoirleach that in considering this issue in recent times and in the past, those very issues were to the fore in the minds of board members. It is important to set this in a context for a moment. The Cathaoirleach rightly said that eight of our motorways are largely governed by existing PPP contracts. I can talk to those in a few moments, if the Cathaoirleach wishes. The other two are the M50 and the Dublin Port tunnel.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I was asking about the M50 and the Dublin Port tunnel.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
They are slightly different, in that the by-laws under which the Dublin Port tunnel is set up are very much geared around traffic management and ensuring that heavy goods vehicles can get to the port unimpeded.
Therefore, particularly at prime peak times, the rate needs to be set such that the trucks can continue to flow through that tunnel. It is marginal at the moment. Hence, the pricing is set at a level to try to ensure the port is delivering on its original objectives of gaining access for those heavy goods vehicles to the port.
The M50 generates over €200 million a year and that is not insubstantial by any means. It is an extremely important element of our overall circa €600 million programme for the protection and renewal of the road network. That is an extremely important element, which we need to spend to ensure we maintain the existing asset all around the country. Were those tolls to disappear overnight, there would be a big hole to be filled. In relation to the increase, which as the Cathaoirleach said is generally 10 cent, it is linked to a consumer price index-based calculation. The reason there were certain nuances between tags and non-tags is that when the CPI calculation is run the increase is either rounded up or down to the nearest 10 cent. There may have been categories where the increase applied last year but because of rounding they do not kick in this year and it might-----
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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My speaking time has come to an end. There is no justification for it. I ask Mr. O'Connor to reflect on it having regard to the significant increase in funding that TII received for next year.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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As a TD for Dublin Fingal West, the MetroLink is obviously something I am very focused on. It will be the biggest public transport infrastructure programme that we have ever had in the State. It is a necessity that we try to deliver it as quickly and as efficiently as possible. I very much welcome Dr. Sweeney's appointment. I know the team is working hard on trying to deliver it. Is TII on notice of any judicial reviews yet or have any been received? What is the drop dead date on that?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I will keep the fingers crossed. How many people will be in the projected workforce that is going to be required for MetroLink construction?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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What will it be roughly?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Has any thought been put into where those workers are going to come from and where they will actually reside during construction, perhaps around on-site accommodation, or has there been any discussion with Fingal County Council?
Dr. Sean Sweeney:
Yes, a lot of thought has been put into that. The major contracts will contract with international firms. There are no firms of the scale and the expertise in Ireland to run those major contracts. They will bring a proportion of workers in and they will look to supplement that with local labour. We have done extensive Irish workforce analysis. The top line is that the construction industry cannot support the construction of this project. This is without even factoring in the other major infrastructure projects in play at the moment as well. We think it will be a challenge. We are looking at it. The constructors that I have spoken to know it is going to be a challenge. We are looking to engage with the local market but we will exhaust the local workforce before we run out of work for them. A lot of work has been put into housing as well.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I am conscious that workers will be needed from abroad. It is important to try to have a framework in place for housing them, whether that is on-site, and that there be a programme so these people can be housed. If that requires temporary on-site accommodation, it would be important to engage with Fingal County Council now and put in place a process for us to house the workers that will be needed so that this project can be delivered quickly and efficiently.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Will that include temporary accommodation or taking from the available housing stock?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I am conscious that there are well over 10,000 people on the housing list in Fingal and while this project absolutely has to be delivered, I am also very conscious of representing the people of Fingal in making sure they get access to housing. If we could come up with another plan where we would have land designated and we can put in place temporary modular builds to house the workers, that should be examined rather than taking from the housing stock that is to be delivered-----
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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-----for people who very much need housing.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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How will that happen?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Most developments are viable in Fingal. We are not talking about down the country somewhere where projects are not viable.
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
It is a balance, as was suggested. The potential housing the MetroLink programme will deliver and make available through transport-oriented development is in the tens of thousands of units. There are viability challenges around apartment buildings at this stage even in Dublin city and in other cities around the country. Where those are marginal, as Dr. Sweeney suggested, the fact that we could commit to occupying those in the first few years makes those bankable for whoever might be considering their development. Ultimately it is a positive in terms of overall housing stock and it allows others then to focus on those that are viable-----
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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We might disagree on that. This is something I might discuss with TII on another day.
In terms of the operational model is it expected that MetroLink will be self-funding or will it need funding from the State like the Luas?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Is it the intention that the operating company will be subject to scrutiny by the Committee of Public Accounts and the Oireachtas?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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The Secretary General indicated that the Department would like to see it be very transparent and subjective.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I would also very much like to see that. I think it is important. The delivery body has to be subject to the Oireachtas and the Committee of Public Accounts but I would also suggest that the operating company should be too.
If this is Mr. Creegan's last appearance before the committee I want to thank him for all his work. I am sure he will not miss my parliamentary questions.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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As interim chief executive.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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He will still have the pleasure of my parliamentary questions.
Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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When it comes to roads, there are many issues I would like to discuss. I would like to get into the mechanism as to how TII prioritises funding for roads. I look at where I am living and the N71 from Cork city to Glengarriff. There was a bypass proposal for Innishannon, which never happened. There were to be southern and northern relief roads in Bandon and they never happened. A couple of crumbs have been thrown out for a report. We have been talking about it for 20 years. I am 11 or 12 years in politics and still we are talking about it.
The report is only kind of starting, so that is kind of a kick-the-can-down-the road exercise. If there were real, genuine interest in putting further funding into the southern relief road in Bandon, that should report should have been done. Nothing is happening on the Clonakilty relief road or the Bantry relief road. The N71 is the main route into west Cork and we get caught for 30, 35 or 45 minutes behind silage spreaders continuously. We just live with it. There is no other way because we do not have rail or anything else. There is no such thing or any interest in putting a bit of money into passing bays. It is just a case of filling the potholes and throwing a slap of tar on if the old road collapses, although even that might take two or three months but it will eventually be done. The only works I remember are the works on the Skibbereen bypass when I was a child. That is the only bypass that ever was done. It is a brilliant job.
Maybe Mr. O’Connor can answer my question. He is here again with us this week. He was very considerate last week when we discussed greenways. The people appreciated his answers and I wish to acknowledge that. What hope have we got if we are continuously being ignored when it comes to funding for the N71, which is the main route into west Cork? The biggest roadways in Ireland are in County Cork and the least amount of money that is being spent is in County Cork. I was discussing the local improvement scheme, with the Minister, Deputy Dara Calleary, some time ago. He said that Cork is the fifth best. We have the biggest number of roads. We should be the best or, rather, getting the most, end of story. Common sense should be applied. Are ministerial decisions dictating that funding should be given to Ministers’ constituencies and roads because they are important to look after? Why are areas like the N71 not getting sufficient funding to put in passing bays to ensure that people can both use lorries and tractors to go about their business as well as allowing business people to go about their business at a proper, safe speed? I would appreciate if Mr. O’Connor would give me some indication as to why moneys have not been spent on roads like that.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I will let Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick talk about some of the specific projects the Deputy has mentioned. What is likely to change in the next couple of weeks is that we will see, for the first time, a five-year sectoral plan published by the Department of Transport. The way in which we and various other delivery agencies have operated in recent years is typically in 12-month tranches of funding. This will finally allow us to plan over a five-year programme, which allows us to have a more coherent, comprehensive, strategic approach around progressing a portfolio of projects. That will certainly be a positive development heretofore. Perhaps Ms Fitzpatrick might be able to speak about the specific projects.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
First, the way we allocate money is set out in the Government’s NDP. That lists the larger projects and they are the ones that get the focus as regards that level of funding. Projects, such as bypass projects, etc., come out of a category of spend that we call minor improvements. It is safety-related works. They are the smaller scale projects. On average, we have had approximately €60 million to €80 million for those projects for the whole country in the past number of years. It is a matter of trying to spread the money around and honour commitments that are already there. It really is a funding issue.
With regard to the projects the Deputy listed, we have started doing some work on the Bandon and Bantry bypasses. We are also familiar with the need to look at the requirement for a bypass at Innishannon. Those ones are on our agenda. These projects take quite a long time to bring through a process and we hope that we are able to continue with those projects. A lot of it is dependent on money, however. The projects that we have committed to get the first ask in terms of the money that we have available to us, followed by what is identified through our various surveys and priorities.
Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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The point I am trying to make is that we do not have the luxury of rail. We have Local Link bus services, which are improving vastly and I fully respect that. The fact that we do not have rail surely puts us at some priority compared to other counties that have all these conveniences. We are in a situation where you are caught, as I said, behind a car. I know myself that the frustration is unbelievable and unbearable. You are half an hour on a summer day behind a car between Bandon and Clonakilty or Clonakilty and Skibbereen. That is outrageous. It is not on to have a situation where you are travelling about 30 km/h. It is not on in the modern world we live in.
At the end of the day, I am bringing this issue up here year in, year out. My brother, Councillor John Collins, attended one of the meetings recently in relation to Bandon and the southern relief road. He asked when there will be a shovel on the ground. That is all we want to hear because reports are the greatest thing to kick a can around for a few years and let on something is being done because a report is being carried out. He could not get an answer. That is where we are at. We are going nowhere. I am not here pointing fingers because Ms Fitzpatrick is saying it is a funding issue. The Government, therefore, is letting the people of Cork South-West down in a terrible way, not just last year or the year before but continuously for years and years.
I ask TII to prioritise roads and places like this where there are no light rail and people do not have the comfort of jumping on a train. I live approximately two hours from a train station. I want to use the train and come to Dublin. When I come in again during the second round later, I might talk about light rail. The train is not there and that is it, end of story. I just have no choice. The train came within two miles of me in 1850. We are supposed to be one step ahead but we are taking two steps back. The bottom line is that these roads need to be prioritised. The bypasses need to be prioritised and passing bays in particular above anything else. They are not hugely expensive. A little bit of cop-on is needed for someone to put together something today to say that this piece of road will be looked at and a passing bay implemented. There is no major cost. All that is needed is to sit down and get it done.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for being here today. It is great to see them. I have raised my objections to the M50 toll increase in January and the inequitable nature of a flat-rate tax basically at a single, fixed point between junctions 6 and 7 that targets the same commuters over and over again. The same communities suffer then from toll avoiders, which means more congestion and pollution in their villages. I asked for a feasibility study to be carried out on ending or reforming the toll on the M50. TII has since sent me details of the outcome of the feasibility study in 2014, which concluded that the current single-point tolling system should be replaced with a variable by time of day, distance-based system with five toll points, including the existing location, with the objective of seeking to preserve the capacity of the full length of the M50 corridor. What was the reaction at the time? I assume that a feasibility study from 2014 would be vary out of date now. Since then, TII has considered potential scenarios after the expiry of the PPP contracts, which I believe start in the early 2030s. This is being considered as Project BRUCE. I am seeking an update on all of that from TII. This is a fact-finding mission today.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I will break the Deputy’s question into two parts: the single point of charging on the M50 and the equity, or otherwise, of it and then the long-term tolling policy or strategy. With regard to the M50, I cannot dispute her point about the inequity of a single point charging system, but that is the way in which it is currently set up. As she referenced, there was a study done about a decade ago looking at alternatives to that. That, as I understand it, did not receive political backing at that time. Some of the sensitivities of that are obvious for all to see.
When it comes to the broader strategy around tolling, in Europe and other countries, the move tends to be towards distance-based tolling, rather than point charging. The reply the Deputy received to her question will have referred to the opportunity that the expiry of the PPP projects over the next decade presents to Ireland. It is an opportunity to look at the appropriate way to charge road users for using the network.
You can argue at one end about whether tolling is necessary at all. If you argue that, then I suppose the follow-on question is about where the necessary income comes from to service the ongoing maintenance of those roads.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I have a couple of questions if Mr. O'Connor does not mind. I only have three and a half minutes. I looked at TII's figures. Am I right in saying that in the 2024 figures, TII's overall income from State grants, reimbursements and toll income was €1.5 billion, and that if the tolling was removed from that, it would represent about 16%, and 13% for the M50? Is that what we are looking at, about 13% of a dent to remove it?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I would look at those numbers slightly differently, in that we have ten tolls around the country under the remit of TII. Eight of those are driven by pre-existing PPP contracts. Then you have the M50 and the Dublin Port Tunnel. Of those that are under the direct control of TII, you are looking at around €250 million of revenue. That goes towards our €600 million programme for ongoing protection and maintenance of the network. The other tolls are there to repay the toll provider for the delivery of those motorways 20-odd years ago.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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According to my figures, Mr. O'Connor is talking about a 13% drop in the overall budget for protecting and renewing the asset base. Come back to me if that is wrong.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am only looking at the M50 toll.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I hope that in any feasibility study that is done or in the work on the consideration of the future of tolling, scrapping that toll altogether would be looked at robustly and fairly.
On TII's data, there does not seem to be any uplift or dividend for the communities that are impacted the most by toll avoiders. The M50 bridge obviously connects junctions 6 and 7. We see toll avoiders in Castleknock and Clonsilla, and in Lucan, in the constituency of my colleague here, Deputy Shane Moynihan. Am I right in saying that there is no dividend for those communities in comparison with other communities?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
It is difficult to make direct linkages there. In the absence of the M50 bridge at the moment, those communities would be in complete gridlock. The way in which the revenue from the M50 toll is used is in relation to the protection and maintenance programme for the overall road network, not specifically that locality.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I understand that. Nobody is talking about taking away the bridge, but there is an absence of data. We have a national vehicle and driver file. We have the eFlow system, which collects drivers' information and registrations. You could look at the data to see who is paying the most on the M50. Am I correct? I believe that should be part of any feasibility study, looking at the people who are paying the most.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I do not see any uplift or dividend in investment in alternative forms of transport or the road network for those particular areas, apart from commercial rates, which are paid by eFlow to Fingal, but also to south Dublin.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I have a couple of questions. I apologise for missing part of the presentation. I think Mr. O'Connor will accept that with the toll increases at Dublin Port Tunnel, fewer ordinary drivers will use it because it has been increased from €13 to €14.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I think Mr. O'Connor would accept that taxi drivers will advise customers in Dublin Airport that there is a faster way to get into Dublin city centre but that it will be more expensive, and many customers choose, like the ordinary motorist paying the increased fare, to go into Drumcondra and back up the traffic there. Is that an acceptable consequence of facilitating the trucks going to Dublin Port at that peak time?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
The trucks are the primary priority for the tunnel. I do not think that will ever change. Regarding the kind of airport passenger that the Deputy is talking about, looking to get into the city centre, there are very regular buses from the airport that use the tunnel at no charge, which gets them in particularly quickly. There are the bus lanes on the regular routes through the likes of Drumcondra, which the Deputy spoke of.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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The priority is to facilitate the trucks as opposed to dealing with the traffic.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Mr. O'Connor mentioned the PPPs. I can understand, post crash, that there was a strong argument for having PPPs. Is he satisfied that using PPPs is the best value for public funds going forward? My view on PPPs is always coloured by the Criminal Courts of Justice, which were built on State land by an Australian investment company, Babcock & Brown. Over the 27 years of the lease, it will cost between €550 million and €600 million to build that complex. I believe it is a bad use of money. Is Mr. O'Connor satisfied that that is a satisfactory use of public funds for some of this necessary infrastructure?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
Going forward, it is a matter of looking at all potential funding sources for any of the large projects we are talking about here today, whether metro, Luas or various others, and ensuring we choose the one that represents the best value for money for the taxpayer, as well as what will actually get the project delivered. Once we have those two things in mind, we should get to the right result.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Would TII's preference be that the State directly, when possible, funds these projects?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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In principle, does Mr. O'Connor have a preference?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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The sum of money made on the M50 tolls and penalties was in the region of €12.5 million over a year. Does Mr. O'Connor have a breakdown of how much of that went to the company and how much the State collected in fees?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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That is about the figure of €12.5 million that is raised in penalties for people who paid even a couple of days late.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Will Mr. O'Connor send me a breakdown?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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On electric vehicle, EV, charging points, there is not enough of a take-up of EVs. I know that if people in Kerry want to have a car that is reliable, affordable and efficient, which would take them to Dublin without having to stop too many times, there need to be enough charging points on the route. Many people are choosing not to go down the line of purchasing a car that will not use fossil fuels because they cannot be guaranteed that this will happen. I see there are 3,000-plus public points and 516 more are planned. What are Mr. O'Connor's plans to accelerate that, to make it easier for people not to have to stop and wait for half an hour and break their journey?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
We have good news there on the third phase of the ZEVI roll-out. That was announced by the Minister a month or so ago. Alongside that announcement, we published a map of the country identifying the existing locations for charging infrastructure and those that will be delivered over the next 12 months or so through the third phase. For the first time, we have pretty much a comprehensive network of various speeds of chargers around the country, which should address some of the range anxiety the Deputy is talking about.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Is Mr. O'Connor saying it is comprehensive now and that there are enough?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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He is saying that in 12 months' time, there will be enough there to cover the whole country satisfactorily.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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In my final 30 seconds, I want to ask about MetroLink leaving TII. Maybe Mr. Creegan could address this as well. Was a separate agency something TII or the NTA pushed for? An associated question is whether the witnesses think all the money that is going to be spent on this project might have an effect on, let us say, the Galway, Cork and Waterford projects. Is there a danger their funding will be swallowed up?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
I think the Government has said this will be funded out of the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund. That is a big positive in that it means the main Vote given to transport can be utilised on other projects.
On the first part of the Deputy's question on the setting-up of a separate body, there have been a lot of discussions and consideration about the best way to deliver what is the biggest project the country will ever undertake. At the conclusion of that, the decision has been what we saw reported last week, which is that a stand-alone entity whose sole focus is to deliver this and deliver it as efficiently as possible is the way forward.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Was Mr. Creegan recommending that, or was his organisation?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
We are absolutely supportive of it. TII obviously has an expertise in seeking CPOs for motorways or delivering other projects in the past. The expertise has been brought to bear for achieving the railway order we now have for MetroLink. However, nobody in Ireland can legitimately say they are experts in the next phase of the project. The scale of it is so big. The new delivery entity will be solely focused on that to ensure it is delivered on time and on budget.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for making time to be with us. My first question is on the Luas for Lucan. I am very happy to see it mentioned in the opening statement. When I raised this first when I was elected, I was told the emerging preferred route would be ready by the end of 2025 and that has now slipped to the first half of 2026. With that in mind, how confident are the officials that, subject to all the other caveats, the railway order will go to An Coimisiún Pleanála by 2028? What level of confidence do they feel about that?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
A number of important steps are required before we get to the point of being able to submit a railway order, but the first tangible step, certainly from the general public's perspective, will be the publication and that initial consulation about the emerging route. That will be in early 2026.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. O'Connor is very confident that will be in the first half of next year. Okay, I thank him for that.
Deputy Currie has mentioned the M50, but one of the items constituents have raised with me, especially the ones who look at the gridlock in Lucan village, is what thought has been given to moving the location of the toll to the exits and whether or not the infrastructure exists to allow for exit tolling rather than single-point tolling on the M50. Lucan is still being used as a rat run by people who want to avoid the M50. There is a question of equity and fairness here. What view are the officials taking about embarking on such a project?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
As Deputy Currie mentioned in her introductory remarks, there was a study done on that some time ago. The technology exists for that and is operational in other countries but ultimately a policy decision would need to be made in relation to that. There is an opportunity now as we look at a general strategy towards tolling over the coming years, mindful of the fact a number of the PPP projects are coming to an end, that allows us to look at that once more. There is no technological or infrastructural impediment to delivering what the Deputy is speaking of, were a decision made to go down that route.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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What investment would be needed for that? What technology exists on the network at the moment to enable that? How much extra sinking investment are we talking about?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I do not have a figure for the Deputy there but it would be replicating the kind of infrastructure you see currently around the M50 bridge at each of the exits. With the detection of traffic and the dynamic speed limits and so on, there are some cameras there, so it would be an extension of what you already see.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Has any study been done on the impact of the single location for the toll and the knock-on effects it has on places like Lucan which have extra traffic put through them because people want to game it and skip the tolls?
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Is that something Mr. O'Connor plans to do?
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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What is the timeline for that?
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
We would be suggesting that should be done in anticipation of the PPP projects that begin to expire in the early 2030s. It is over the next couple of years that we have that space to come down and ensure our strategic approach to tolling is appropriate, mindful of a number of directives coming from Europe in this space.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I move to TII's engagement with local authorities. South Dublin County Council is the authority with which I engage. It is a small instance but it shows where we need to maybe improve the level of transparency of how TII engages with local authorities. I am referring to the closure of the Boot Road junction onto the N7. This area has been an accident black spot. The council tells me it has approached TII, has not recommended the closure of this junction and actually recommended junction improvements and improved signage. TII has not engaged with that. How does it engage with councils given the local expertise these have, through their engineers, in movement and traffic patterns?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
Again, I do not know the particulars, but we have a regional management structure. We have the country divided into areas and there are a number of regional managers and senior engineering inspectors who deal directly with the local authority executive and meet regularly. It is through that mechanism we would engage with the local authorities. We also meet the elected representatives once a year to have direct engagement with them and get their input on issues they raise. It is through that mechanism, through the regional team. I can certainly ask them to look at the issue.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I would appreciate a follow-up as well. I am not dismissing the important of meeting elected representatives and engineers but those meetings have to have some sort of substantive engagement. We are at a juncture where people perceive that the process is about the meeting but there is not necessarily an outcome from that, or no constructive outcome. That is again a general point I wanted to make.
On the delivery of the roads programme, I live in a constituency that has had massive population growth over the last while and that is why projects like the Luas for Lucan and DART+ South West are so pivotal to the increased growth and facilitating the movement of population. However, there are also bottlenecks. For example, the Palmerston interchange at the N4 is listed in the South Dublin County Council development plan as part of its six-year road programme. Similarly, the delivery of the western Dublin orbital route is listed in the six-year programme of the South Dublin County Council development plan. What engagement does TII have with the local authority to ensure the delivery of those? I ask not only because they are important infrastructural investments in their own right, but because they would also unlock large parts of the constituency for additional housing, they would ensure the congestion we see in places like Rathcoole and Saggart villages is not replicated in five to ten years' time if there is further development. What kind of proactive approach does TII take with regard to the development of those roads programmes?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
There are two aspects to this. First, we deliver on what is in the NDP, so we deliver the policy of Government. The other aspect is, like I said, through the regional managers engaging directly with the local authorities and listening to the concerns of those. But really we only have the funding to deliver what is identified in the national policy.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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How does that square with what is listed in development plans? What I am trying to get to the bottom of is, when councillors vote for six-year road programmes and are told by the council officials that the officials will speak to TII or the Department about that, what does that look like or how do we get to a point where that six-year road programme means something?
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Okay, but there is no discrete outcome at the end to say we will collaboratively be delivering the six-year road programme in consultation with the local authority.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
What is in the development plan is what the local authority would like to deliver. We do engage with the development plans. We look at what is proposed. We give comments as well when they are going through the approval process. We are bound to just deal with what is approved and what level of funding we have. There are a lot of projects we would like to deliver throughout the country, but it may not be listed in the NDP or we may not have the funding level to allocate funding to the projects.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The draft Galway metropolitan area transport strategy was referenced, and it is going to take account of the light rail feasibility study for the Gluas project. Will Gluas be an essential feature of the new metropolitan area transport strategy, or is it still an open question as to whether Gluas will be part of it? If Gluas does go into the strategy, what happens next? How do we get from Gluas being in a strategy to a railway order?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
The stage we are at, as the Deputy correctly said, is that we have completed a feasibility study that identifies the potential for an east-west route from Knocknacarra to Roscam that could proceed. The process will be that we have to update the Galway transport strategy. As part of the update, it feeds into it in the same way as other project proposals would feed into it. We then would have a consultation around the whole strategy as well. Out of that we will hopefully end up with an adopted transport strategy we can go forward with. We cannot say definitively here today that it will be in it, and we are not saying definitively that it will be out of it. It really has to go through a process where it is considered.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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What is the timeline for the adoption of the metropolitan strategy?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Does Mr. Creegan have a sense of a timeline for that?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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In terms of the shorter term for Galway, a new bus network was promised for 2025 and 2026 and that has now been pushed back until 2027. Is there a reason for that? Is it a funding issue? Why has it been pushed back quite significantly?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Does Mr. Creegan know when the NTA will get clarity from the Minister for Transport in terms of when it will have the funding to allow this roll-out of BusConnects in Galway?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
We will have clarity on the capital side to invest in electrification and a new bus fleet as part of the sectoral plan that is going to be published in a few weeks' time. When it comes to the subsidy, that is still done on an annual basis, so it cannot be decided until the upcoming year.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Moving to Cork and the light rail proposal there, the consultation on the emerging preferred route has just recently closed. In the TII submission, it said it was looking at a revised route for Cork in 2026 and a railway order submitted in 2028. It seems quite a lengthy process. Comparing with Luas Lucan, they were saying there would be an emerged preferred corridor in early 2026 but then the railway order in 2028. Is there any particular complexity to the Cork programme that seems to be elongating the process?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
I would not call it a complexity but it is an extremely large project. When TII and the NTA do public consultation, we do take the feedback, and the feedback on the Cork scheme is that a number of areas need to be reconsidered. The process, which is ongoing, is to look at those areas and have a new round of consultations on revised proposals.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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What are the main parts of the line that need to be looked at again?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
There are some proposals on Ballincollig in the west. There are also some proposals to the east of the city in terms of routing. There are a number of issues. There are about 1,000 submissions made, so there are a large number of issues. There are two or three areas that need particular attention and the design team is working its way through that.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Regarding the Luas Poolbeg extension, I know a feasibility study has been undertaken by TII. I think that is with the NTA at the moment. Is it the intention to publish that feasibility study and to publish an opinion on it?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Where does the feasibility study then fit into the process?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
The feasibility study is to assess what could and should be done in respect of that particular corridor. If out of it comes a refined scheme that needs to be brought forward, there are then various phases it needs to go through. Central to that would be funding to progress it even through those phases. We are waiting for the sectoral plan to come out to understand what our funding availability is, which will then dictate which projects can move forward.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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A sectoral plan is expected in a couple of weeks' time. The potential future for Luas Poolbeg and for pretty much all the proposed light rail routes is dependent on that sectoral plan. Is that correct?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
In short, yes, because the sectoral plan dictates the money we have available to build these schemes, sets out some priorities and gives details on certainly a number of the projects. For us, as the Deputy knows quite well, we need to have the funding in order to progress with the various phases.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Luas Finglas is a lot further advanced. Is the building of that also dependent on the sectoral plan or is there funding put aside for Luas Finglas already?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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When TII gets the sectoral plan allocation, will it say X amount for public transport and Y for roads, or will it just be one broad amount?
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for their time today. I want to follow up on the Gluas project and the Galway transport strategy. Obviously, there are significant opportunities for Galway. The outcome of the feasibility study was extremely positive. It has been mentioned that we must wait until the transport strategy is updated. That is contingent on when we might get a decision on the Galway ring road. There is no exact timeline on that and there is no certainty with it either. There is a concern that it could drag on for a longer period and hold up important projects like this. Is any option available to the NTA to update that transport strategy in the absence of the ring road being completed?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
Yes, but we are not doing the strategy justice because the ring road is so fundamental. If the ring road was refused, we would end up with a different strategy, and if the ring road was modified, we would end up with a different strategy. For us, it makes most sense that the decision is made by An Coimisiún Pleanála. We are not saying we are waiting until judicial reviews arise, are heard or are concluded. We are just saying that when An Coimisiún Pleanála has made its decision, that will give us its viewpoint, which we can then use as a kick-off point to update the transport strategy.
I will repeat it. It has become very efficient at reaching its decisions and I would be hopeful it will not be a long wait for their decision on the ring road.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Has the NTA prepared for the different scenarios in terms of what that decision could like? Is the authority prepared to get that work completed quite quickly once An Coimisiún Pleanála has made a decision?
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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How quickly would Mr. Creegan guess?
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Once the Gluas project is included in that transport strategy, what is the process after that? Could Mr. Creegan guide us through that?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
In broad terms, the steps will be to come up with the final route of the light rail system. The feasibility study is very clearly saying this is not the final route. This is a broad corridor and there is detailed work to be done. The steps are as follows: come up with a final route; carry out an environmental impact assessment; prepare an environmental impact assessment report; and prepare a railway order for submission to An Coimisiún Pleanála.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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What is the timeline for that part of the process?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
If the route was uncontroversial and people supported the route the first time out - it is my experience that it does not often happen - that process could be done within a three-year window, from the starting point of kicking it off to being submitted to An Coimisiún Pleanála. It could certainly be done in three years.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Are safety measures on active roads and active travel measures solely the responsibility of TII or does the NTA also have a role?
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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The reason I bring it up is that we have a national road in my constituency, the N67, which passes through the village of Kinvarra. There have been a number of accidents in the village recently. It is a very busy road. It is extremely dangerous and I know there have been efforts for a very long time to get a number of pedestrian crossings put in to make it safer for people in the local area. I am told the latest on it is that Galway County Council is doing a design plan with a number of crossings, which it will submit to TII. What will TII consider when it receives a proposal like that? How quickly can it make a decision once a proposal is received?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
Projects like that go to our safety section. TII reviews the national road in terms of safety statistics. We plot where the accidents occur. That is one aspect of it. The other is that we actually drive the route and identify areas where there are issues as well. There are two elements to the way we deal with safety issues.
On a particular case, if we do not pick it up, the local authority has the option of submitting proposals as well. A number of safety engineers are located around the country. They engage directly with local authorities. The local authority submits a proposal. It is then considered internally. It is then looked at in terms of the overall funding we have available to the overall programme. If the local authority is currently proposing something, that will come into the safety section. It will review that and look at it in the context of the funding it has for next year.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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That is everything from me. I thank the witnesses.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I am sorry that I missed the opening address. I am wondering about shovel-ready projects in my area. What stage is the N4 bypass of Carrick-on-Shannon at? I have questions about three roads; the N4, the N17-Collooney to Knock phase and the N15 from Sligo to Donegal.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
I will start with the bypass for Carrick-on-Shannon. That has received funding over the past five years. The planning and design is getting towards the end of that phase. We hope that the local authority will submit a proposal for gate approval early next year and we will be in a position to get that into An Coimisiún Pleanála during the year. That one is moving quite-----
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I am sure Leitrim County Council knows that it has to give-----
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I am sorry that I missed the opening address but what is the anticipated timeline once approval has been received for a project like that?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
It takes between five and seven years to get to the point of submitting it for approval in the first place. There is then the oral hearing, however long that takes, and the planning process to get approval from An Coimisiún Pleanála. Once it is approved, and there is no judicial review, we prepare the contract documents and go to tender, subject to funding, of course. It takes about a year and a half after the approval process to actually get through the tender process and get to the point where you would have a contract on the ground.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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What stage is it at now? What estimation would Ms Fitzpatrick give for how long it will take?
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I am looking at the Northern and Western Regional Assembly report on transport infrastructure. There were none in my region of the Sligo-Leitrim area that were shovel-ready. When it says shovel-ready, I assumed the N17 would be shovel-ready under this-----
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
There has been a lot of work done in-house in Sligo on that scheme. There is an identified, preferred route. We are in the process of developing the detail of it but that will take a number of years because there will be environmental surveys and a lot of design work to be done. You are talking about two to three years before that would be in a position to actually go in for planning permission in the first place.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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That is way off. In terms of balanced development, the north west has been downgraded to a lagging region and a lot of it is because of infrastructure. What about the N15 to Donegal?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
They will be submitted for planning permission. We have gotten through the gate approval process. We have approval to submit it for planning. That will be submitted for planning in the first quarter of next year. It will then go through the planning process. The outcome of that will determine when it can be constructed.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I thank Ms Fitzpatrick for that. Is there any way of progressing the projects? What are the conditions for some projects to become shovel-ready more than others? We have been waiting for the N17 in Sligo for a long time. It goes so far and there are a lot of accidents on that road. There improvements on the N4 to Castlebaldwin have completely transformed things. There were so many accidents and the danger of the road was so obvious due to the white crosses along that route.
The N17 is another very dangerous road. What are the conditions, besides money? Is it the use of the road? Is it to do with other available transport opportunities? Is there a way that areas like the north west could be positively discriminated against because of our lack of other available transport options?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
There is no short answer to that. The way it is prioritised at the moment is by what is identified in the national development plan.
Feeding into that, however, a lot of the main links now are either there or at construction. There is an emphasis on the connections to the west and to the north because they are the sections of the network that have not been addressed and that are not done. The programme will move to start to address those connections outside of the main corridors. Again, it is a matter of what is listed in the NDP and the level of funding we get. It does take quite a long time to bring these projects through from the start to achieving planning permission. It can take up to 20 years from start to having them completed on the ground because of-----
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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What are the delays? Twenty years is a very long time.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
It is, but it is the level of investigation in terms of the environment, the various challenges that are coming along, the level of funding to continue the progression of the projects and the level of engagement that is required. There is a lot to getting these projects from start to finish.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I welcome everyone to the committee. My questions will be mostly TII-related for Mr. O'Connor and the team.
My home is in Ballina, County Mayo. From a Ballina viewpoint, my question to Mr. O'Connor is as follows: I know he is new to his position, but is he familiar with the traffic situation and the congestion within Ballina? Is that on TII's radar at the moment?
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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The reason I ask is that I am new to the Oireachtas this year but all my lifetime I have been hearing about proposals to address traffic congestion in Ballina in particular. The mid-1840s was the last time we had a significant and substantial investment in road transport. That was the building of the Ham Bridge over the River Moy. A few years later the Lower Bridge was developed. They were both built in the 1840s in the 19th century. Later in that century, another crossing of the River Moy at Foxford was built. There was nothing in the 20th century, and we are now a quarter of the way through the 21st century without any additional substantial infrastructure investment for transport in Ballina or north Mayo. There is a constraint with the River Moy crossing. That is understandable but it is not an excuse not to develop or deliver. What I am asking for today is that there be a dedicated and intensive analysis by TII on a plan for relief of congestion of the town. The whole region, west Sligo and north Mayo, is relying on two 19th-century bridges that have one-way traffic flow. We have spent hundreds of thousands of euro on consultants through the transport plans that have been funded over recent years, and we have Mayo County Council basically caught up in applying to TII for low-cost safety measures and trying to sort out fixing of traffic lights, which should not be within the competence of TII because it has a lot of other more pressing projects to deliver. It took us two years to address traffic light changes. We were told by engineers that that was because we were waiting for sign-off from TII. That should not be happening. Low-cost safety interventions, maintenance of traffic lights and such competencies should be devolved to local authorities so TII can get on with the more substantial projects we are talking about here that are nation-building and that can be transformational for the country. I would welcome the witnesses' thoughts on that in a Ballina context in relation to an orbital route over the River Moy.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I will let Ms Fitzpatrick perhaps speak to the specific projects or potential in a moment. What the Senator described, whether it is in relation to Ballina or indeed any other town around the country, is the ongoing need for TII and the relevant local authority to work hand in glove. It is the local authority officials who will know best where there are pinch points or things that would need to be done. We will always be open to engage with local authorities on those projects and then, also, as I said-----
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I just want to interrupt Mr. O'Connor on that. As regards the engagement with the local authority, the local authority will pass it off to TII and TII passes it over to the local authority, and it regularly falls between the cracks in terms of development. We are a quarter of the way through the 21st century without any delivery or any hope of delivery. There was €88 million investment in a different Ballina for the Ballina-to-Killaloe bridge, which is obviously great for that area. The population of Ballina in Tipperary is 2,400. The urban population of Ballina alone is 11,000, and the town serves a region beyond that of 30,000 or 40,000 people between west Sligo and north Mayo. We have an €88 million investment, which is welcome for Ballina, County Tipperary. I do not know it in much detail other than that the population of Ballina is 2,500 and that of Killaloe, on the other side of the river, is about 1,500. The justification is pronounced for a relief road over the River Moy connecting the Foxford and Sligo road. That needs to be a priority of TII. From a political point of view, we will do whatever we can to find the funding, but I have been around too long as to what I have seen at a local authority level. TII will push these things to the local authority; the local authority will push them to TII. Why will the local authority push them to TII? Because the local authority is trying to get paltry funding for pedestrian crossings or changing of traffic lights or low-cost safety measures, never mind having the competencies to think about transformational projects that are desperately needed for the town.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
We have a regional design office located in Mayo that engages in the delivery of the major projects. In relation to the Ballina bypass, a project is currently funded and in the design process for phase 1. It is a connection. My understanding is that that will go for CPO and planning approval next year. We engage directly with the RDO regularly, at least once a month. We work with the local authority to understand the priorities and try to deliver the projects but, again, it depends on what resources we have to fund such projects. I would not like to give the impression that there is not an ongoing communication and engagement directly through the RDO in Mayo.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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Will TII commit to engaging with the RDO specifically on a crossing of the River Moy for phase 2 of the Ballina orbital route? Phase 1 connects the Foxford and Crossmolina road. I attended the public consultations. That was phase 1. I asked, "Where is phase 2 if we doing a phase 1?" We do not know. It does not make sense. It would be like Dr. Sweeney building the first stop on a metro and not being sure where he is going for the next stop. We need joined-up thinking in approach and serious thought about how we invest and make those decisions to make sure we know, when we have a phase 1, where we are going with phase 2. Will TII be able to commit to that with the RDO in Mayo?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
We engage with the RDO continuously. We have done what we could within the funding we had for this year and we have given funding to progress phase 1, so at least it has started to move, if that is acceptable to the Senator. Then the idea would be to follow on, but we can only do what the resources permit us to do. We will engage with the RDO. I hear what the Senator said about phase 2.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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We can come back to this in the second round. The Deputy has gone a minute over time. I call Deputy Healy-Rae.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Thank you for the opportunity, a Chathaoirligh, and I thank the witnesses for coming in again. They have to be brief with their answers and we have to be brief with our questions because of the time constraints.
First, I hope that progress will continue on the Killarney bypass, otherwise known as the Kerry-Cork economic corridor, in the coming year.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Leaving Killarney and going on the N72 to Killorglin, active travel works have been completed in one phase from the Gap cross to Grenagh Cross. That was promised as well. Where is that at?
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I have to speak my mind: I believe good money has been wasted in these active travel projects. We will have to conclude what is on the books.
Continuing on the Ring of Kerry road, the N70, before Glenbeigh and after it there are two desperate bridges. They were built in the 1880s for horses and carts for one at a time. Two vehicles cannot pass on these bridges. The traffic on the Ring of Kerry is massive. Are there any plans to do anything with those bridges? One of them is the Caragh Bridge and I cannot think of the name of the one to the west of Glenbeigh. It is an S-shaped bridge. Are they included in any programme?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
We have a bridges programme that looks after the entire country. There is an allocation of about €20 million a year in terms of bridges. On the two particular bridges, I am afraid I would have to check that and come back to the Deputy. I do not manage the bridges programme but there is an ongoing review of bridges and identification of needs for bridges.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Continuing up the hill to a place called Mountain Stage, there is a bridge crossing the road. It is too low for vehicles of the legal height and they have to take a detour off it through a track. Imagine that the longest and the highest lorries that come in the road have to go around this thing. Its removal has been requested in Kerry County Council by my son, Councillor Johnny Healy-Rae. He has been promised it would be removed. Why is it not being removed?
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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My time is running out. I would be grateful if Ms Fitzpatrick would come back with answers.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Then we go to Caherdaniel and Castlecove, still on the Ring of Kerry, and the surface is dreadful. I am asking the officials to deal with that because it is terrible. It is not fit for vehicles of any kind. It would break what you have. Continuing to Sneem village, a community that we will say is far away from everywhere, work had begun between Parknasilla and Blackwater Bridge in the early 2000s and then with the bust, it is there since. In 2023, there was a section finished off and we were promised that the specific improvement work would take place the following year, 2024. We are almost at the end of 2025 now and nothing has happened. Continuing over to Blackwater Bridge, before the bridge, I know myself that if you are coming from the Kenmare side with a low loader, the next thing is that a car is inside between yourself and the ditch on the right hand side, in under the low loader. If you try to go back, there are cars behind you and the road is blocked on a busy summer's day. I feel that this part of our world is totally neglected. I am asking the officials to remember it. I will be putting pressure on from the political side. We feel we have been left behind for whatever reason. Sneem is a community in itself, along with being on the Ring of Kerry route. Those people deserve a proper road the very same as the people up here in Dublin 4. I ask the officials to remember these things favourably and thank them for the work they do.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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It is the first time I have heard the Deputy say on record that his constituency has been left behind.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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It has, it has. I worked on that section of the road in 2005 and 2006 and was glad to have done, but it has been left there since.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Thank you. We will do a second round with three to four minutes each. I will start with my own second round. The officials alluded to the length of national road in the opening statement. They said that 5,500 km of national routes account for 45% of all road use. I think there was a further acknowledgement as to the deteriorating state and the need to catch up on our national road network. I want to filter down to our regional and local road networks. If I understand correctly, they are funded by means of a block grant to local authorities, and local authorities using their own additional resources as well. There is a significant length of local and regional road in my own constituency of south Tipperary and in County Tipperary as a whole. If there was reference to the deteriorating state of our national roads, do the witnesses agree with me that our local and regional roads are in an even more critical state and are in urgent need of additional funding? I think we are talking about just under 100,000 km of local and regional road in the country. I am certainly concerned as to their state, local roads in particular. Combined, they carry 55% of our national road traffic. I know the block grant has increased marginally but local authorities make the argument to me that the impact of the funding is even less when we take inflation into account. I would appreciate a comment on that and whether there are plans to address it.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
Local authorities would be best placed to comment specifically on the state of their regional and local roads. Having had the opportunity to speak to a small number of local authorities since joining TII, I know they share the concern the Deputy has just articulated. When we look at our own 5,500 km network, there is certainly a build-up of work that ideally would have been undertaken on a steady state over the last number of years, but that has not been done. It is no different from repairing a small leak in a roof. The longer you leave it, the more expensive it is going to be to fix. It is important that we put in a programme that is fit for purpose for the coming years. Hopefully through the sectoral plan we will be able to start to put that in place, to catch up and to ensure that we maintain the asset at the appropriate level so that we do not have this issue again.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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In the context of 2026 to 2030, in terms of the block grant, do you see significantly increased funding for local authorities to address the crisis we have in respect of our local and regional roads?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Thank you. Deputy Boland is next.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Has TII assessed the cumulative impact of MetroLink construction and other projects such as the N2 upgrade and airport capital investment programme on congestion in north County Dublin? How is it going to minimise disruption during construction?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I am conscious that this work could be going on at the same time as other upgrades to the N2 and the airport is looking at a serious capital investment programme as well. One of the big issues in our area is actually traffic to the airport. While I would welcome various different routes into the airport, all these projects may be happening at the same time.
We really need to get ahead of it and make sure we are putting in place other solutions such as additional routes and public transport. Mr. Creegan will be delighted to hear I am looking for more public transport. We cannot have the north of the county absolutely suffocated during the construction of these various projects.
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
To add to what Dr. Sweeney said, we are conscious that there are many projects going to construction concurrently. We have set up a transport forum with all of the relevant parties to co-ordinate across those activities and make sure we minimise the congestion and disruption as much as we can. That is one of the mechanisms we are using to ensure we do not have the kind of scenario the Deputy alluded to.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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We would get additional public transport if necessary to alleviate issues.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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In terms of the disruption plans for the metro, I understand there is something in place. I assume that is going to be continually reviewed and updated to make sure we are doing everything we can.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
As Dr. Sweeney said, we are in close liaison with all the relevant local authorities. There is no denying that a construction project of this scale will be disruptive, but the point is that we are trying to manage it as best we can. The other opportunity that it presents, to refer to Mr. Creegan's point about the wider co-ordination, relates to other utility projects that are required around the city and neighbouring counties, such as electric or water networks. We must co-ordinate those plans to ensure the disruption is once and once only for the various communities.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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We are committing to being very co-ordinated and joined-up with a cross-departmental, cross-agency approach. I can start querying this transport forum.
Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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I have a few questions that are directed more towards light rail. I have spoken about the roads. As I mentioned to the witnesses from TII, I would appreciate it if consideration could be given to the installation of at one passing bay between Bandon and Clonakilty, or between Clonakilty and Skibbereen. It would be the first progressive move on our roads in 30 years. I ask TII to look at it. Two passing bays would be better but that is a dream too far. Unfortunately, I am back to the same situation when it comes to light rail. It is very parochial and constituency-related. There is no light rail serving the 140 km from Ardgroom to Cork. It is approximately 137 km from where I live on the Mizen Head Peninsula to Cork. We have no light rail and no sign or hope of having it. I said before that it came to Schull, 3 miles east of me, in 1850. In 2025, we cannot even get a sign of it. There is Connecting Ireland. The witnesses mentioned bringing people home earlier. None of these things apply to thousands of people in west Cork. It has been suggested that a light rail line might be developed between Ballincollig and Mahon, which is a great idea. I am a big believer that the airport should be connected to that type of transport. We will get there. Are there any proposals that Bandon to Cork could be looked at? I brought this up with a lady from Iarnród Éireann a couple of weeks ago; I cannot remember her name. I asked her whether a bus connection is being considered so that we would at least have a direct connection to the train station every morning. It would allow people in these areas to get on a bus that leaves Mizen Head and goes directly to the train station, picking people up along the way, at the earliest possible time in the morning. Some people who might use that bus to catch the train could then travel onwards to Dublin or wherever. At the moment, it would take me a day to travel from my house to Dublin using public transport. That is not feasible. The fastest way to make the journey is to drive, which takes four hours and 45 minutes. Is there any kind of talk along that direction?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
Light rail needs a certain density of development to support it economically. It is a very expensive mode to build. It costs €80 million, €90 million or €100 million per kilometre. When an area is below a certain density, we need to put bus and coach services in place. As the Deputy knows, the Connecting Ireland plan intends to connect all of these types of locations to the nearest urban centres, meaning local towns and larger centres. We have rolled out quite a bit. As the Deputy knows, what has been rolled out is well appreciated and successful. We accept there is more to be done. All of these things cost money. That is what we are going to need in the years ahead. The answer from our point of view is to roll out Connecting Ireland and enhance it further.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I have many questions. If our witnesses do not get to answer any of them, I would appreciate it if they could send me an update.
The TII has said in its communications with me that it would welcome an opportunity to progress with a further feasibility study in conjunction with the Department and the NTA about the reform of current tolling arrangements on the M50. I want to check that the NTA is up for that. To be clear, I am asking for the impact of removing the toll on the M50, along with the impact of keeping it, to be considered. As part of this, consideration must be given to the financial impact on local communities around junctions 6 and 7, and the impact of toll avoiders on congestion in local communities. Also, going back to the 2014 report, I ask for an assessment on whether variable or multiple toll points are being considered.
In relation to road projects, is it the case there is not going to be an additional lane for cars within the N3 road project? It has been suggested that the extra lane is actually going to be a bus corridor.
In 2019, when I was a councillor, there was a non-statutory consultation for the Ashtown to the County Kildare border element of the Royal Canal urban greenway, which is in Dublin West. In January 2023, my colleague, Councillor Siobhan Shovlin, received correspondence to say that it was in preliminary design and the next stage would be the statutory process. An application was made to An Bord Pleanála in 2023. Now, in 2025, it is still in preliminary design. I ask for an update on that. Why has it taken so long?
Can we get an update on the disruption that MetroLink is going to cause to the Maynooth line? I do not expect an update today, given the time constraints. It is a great project, but people are really worried about the disruption and we need to communicate with them.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
There are a few questions there for the NTA and some for Dr. Sweeney. I might take the two easy ones. The current works on the N3 are bus-focused rather than additional car lanes. Again, that speaks to ensuring we can efficiently move large numbers of people, given the constraints we have.
On the interchange in Glasnevin, we have a memorandum of understanding with Iarnród Éireann that is very much designed to ensure we deliver the best project possible with the minimal disruption. It is inevitably that there will be disruption. It will take further time in terms of the design work to understand exactly what that will amount to. For those living on the Maynooth line, there will ultimately be the interchange to the Luas and the interchange to the metro. They can continue on the train to the city centre as well. They will enjoy a significantly enhanced offering once they have gone through that disruption.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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When will we know about the impact that will have to be endured while the construction is under way?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I will have to come back to the Deputy. I call Deputy Moynihan.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair. I will go through a few matters and leave time for answers at the end.
I would like to return to the interchange at the Palmerston junction that is set out in the development plan. I draw attention to that because the N4 ultimately falls under the responsibility of TII. It is one of the main arterial routes into the city centre and the last bottleneck before one gets into Dublin. I would be very keen to see some sort of proactive engagement between TII and South Dublin County Council on dealing with that particular structure.
The other point I wish to raise is in regard to cycle tracks on national roads.
I am not sure what maintenance is done by TII on the cycle tracks that sit on its national roads. I have raised this directly with South Dublin County Council. I am told it is the responsibility of TII. Maybe the witnesses could follow up with me afterwards and point me in the direction of where I should address the issues of ongoing maintenance. For example, the cycle track on the N4 that will not be part of BusConnects has not been maintained to my knowledge since it was built. That is an issue, especially if we are going to encourage people to use the connecting bus corridor that will come from that cycle track.
Then, for the NTA, I note that in the programme for Government, there is a commitment to a feasibility study for metro south west. Could I get an update on that? I am very enthused by the fact that there are now three active Luas lines at various stages of progression that are being strategised as part of the NTA's overall remit. I am keen to get a sense from the witnesses about how we will keep that rolling expertise ongoing. Are we going to stop then once Poolbeg, Finglas and Lucan are done or are we going to start rolling so that we have a constant bank of possible feasibility studies or possible emerging preferred routes for the additional lines that are to be delivered as part of the greater Dublin transport strategy?
I cannot let the witnesses out of the room without mentioning the ongoing issues with the 80 bus route that was introduced as part of the recent phase of BusConnects. I am sure they are aware of the significant issues there are with buses not turning up and cancellations. A lot of this has been pointed to the fact that the bus has been put across Bridge Street down towards Rathmines, as opposed to going along the quays. I am not sure what the resolution is here, but it is something we want to resolve because we are losing a lot of people's good will towards public transport in Palmerston and Chapelizod in particular. I would appreciate some good engagement on that too.
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
I might respond on the last couple of points. On the feasibility study for metro south west, we need to see whether this a judicial review against MetroLink and where it ends up. It is possibly towards the end of next year or the following year when we will start that. It is a project that really has to link on to MetroLink in any event.
I said in my opening statement that there are 12 Luas schemes overall planned for Dublin in future years. After the three that were mentioned move on, there is another batch that will come forward.
I accept the Deputy's comments on route 80. There are issues there and I understand the concerns. I do not have a quick solution.
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Creegan might come back to me on the 80 route, please.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. O'Connor wish to respond briefly?
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. O'Connor might come back to me with an update on what TII is doing on engaging with South Dublin County Council on the Palmerston interchange as well.
I thank the Chair for his indulgence.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I call Deputy O'Gorman.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I want to come back to the question of those longer-term Luas programmes. In the Luas 2050 vision document, there are two touching on my constituency, namely, an extension of the green line to Tyrrelstown and a full-on Luas going up the Navan Road to Blanchardstown. It was indicated as being post 2042, which is a long way away. Recognising it is going to take a while for the Poolbeg and Lucan lines to be developed, will there be feasibility studies happening in the early to mid-2030s to move those on? I refer in particular to the Tyrrelstown line as that is indicatively routed through the Abbotstown lands, which is the big bank of land Fingal has that it is looking to open up for a major housing development. What are those steps that can be taken now or in the reasonably near future to make sure we do not have this big gap and as others have said, that the expertise that is developed in terms of the delivery is kept? One of the things they have learned from Spain and other countries is that they get a team and people who know how to deliver large-scale public transport and just go straight into the next one rather than letting that expertise be lost. This is specific though to the Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown Luas proposals.
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
They are in our transport strategy as post 2042, but that transport strategy was developed a few years ago. Our intention is to review it in the metro unit every six years, so in two years' time, we will be publishing a revised one. We think there are opportunities and there is a need to bring some of these schemes forward. I do not think all of them will wait until 2042. The short answer is that the Luas to Tyrrelstown and Luas to Blanchardstown schemes the Deputy mentioned will be worked on in the early 2030s, and I think they will be delivered ahead of the schedule that is indicated in our current strategy.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The NTA will be looking at this in two years, and in two years' time, it will be indicating if the proposed delivery dates for the Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown lines will be brought forward.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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What are the factors that would push to have these brought forward earlier? Is it opening up more land for housing development?
Mr. Hugh Creegan:
It is both the extent of the development that has taken place and the fact that it also opens up the potential for more development in the right places. They are the guiding factors. We design around population and employment requirements and as the Deputy will know, in Dublin West, they have increased.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Mr. Creegan is probably aware that the 40E bus to Broombridge is hugely popular. It is massively oversubscribed at the moment. It has left a lot of people at the bus stop in the past couple of weeks in mornings and evenings because it is so oversubscribed. Some bit of confidence, even if it is more than a decade for people in Tyrrelstown and Kilmartin, that we are seriously looking at a Luas line would be hugely beneficial.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. The final two or three minutes go to Senator Duffy.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. I will be as quick as I can.
The north-west region where I am from is ranked 218 out of 234 in European regions in terms of transport infrastructure. That is not a surprise, obviously, when we are talking about 12 new Luas schemes, MetroLink and MetroLink south, which are all positive developments that I support. However, I am looking for a commitment today for phase 2 of the Ballina bypass over the River Moy and that dedicated resources within TII are applied to make sure Ballina has a full orbital route because we cannot be waiting for the next century to make this a reality. I need support and commitment from TII today on that.
I would also like an update on the upgrade of the N26 from Ballina to Foxford and onwards to Swinford, and an update on the completion of the Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge project. It is a great project that will bring east and west closer together and will bypass many towns where there are a lot of issues. I would like an update in terms of the completion and timeline and cost of that, and the projected cost of the N26 upgrade as well.
Mr. Lorcan O'Connor:
I will let Ms Fitzpatrick speak to the two specific projects the Deputy talked about. He has a commitment of our ongoing engagement and support for the regional office in Mayo and with the Mayo local authority. Ultimately, however, in terms of the actual delivery of projects such as the one the Deputy described for phase 2 for Ballina, that is a factor of resourcing. Seeing it listed either within the sectoral plan or the national development plan or otherwise, we need that funding commitment in order to progress a project once it is agreed or identified by the local authority. However, we certainly will be happy to sit down and work with that local authority to see what is possible in that regard.
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
The N5 is progressing very well on site. It is on target so that project will be completed within the next two years.
On Foxford to Mount Falcon, that scheme is at planning and design stage. Work is ongoing on the development of the design with a view to bringing it through the planning approval process. There is also work happening on the Foxford bypass with the appointment of consultants imminent on that.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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What does that mean? The appointment of consultants to do what exactly?
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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Does Ms Fitzpatrick think the length of time it takes at the moment is acceptable? Does she think it is acceptable that there is a stage zero all the way to stage 7 or stage 8?
Ms Geraldine Fitzpatrick:
I wish it was shorter but there is policy. There are requirements in terms of legislation. There are a lot of things to be looked at. It would be our objective to make sure that when it does go to planning, it has a good chance of getting through. All of those things have to be done before we can get there.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Okay, that is a wrap. I thank Mr. O'Connor and his team, Sean, Paolo and Geraldine, and Mr. Creegan, who is supported by Eoin. I thank them for their constructive engagement today. The committee does recognise the complexity of these projects but there is an urgency as well, such as with the N24 Cahir to Waterford section. We will continue as a committee to monitor these projects very closely.
I really appreciate the witnesses' contributions and look forward to further updates. I thank them for assisting the committee today. I thank the members, those in the Public Gallery and the staff who support me in my role as Cathaoirleach. We shall now adjourn until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 26 November 2025, when we will meet once again in public session.