Mr. John Sherwin:

It is co-creation of the services. It is working together to find out the appropriate points where we should be involved. We cannot be involved in an entire process. However, one of the points where we can be influential is bringing the correct information to the table to guide the development of processes and be involved in the assessment as well. For too long it has been involvement in consultation at the start, and then you see what the service looks like at the end, and it is not enough.