James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome everyone to our 11th public meeting. Before we proceed, I have a few housekeeping matters to deal with. I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the House as regards references that are made to other persons in evidence. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentations they make to the committee. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse this privilege and it is my duty as Chair to ensure this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction.

I advise members of the constitutional requirement that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate when they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, a member who attempts to participate from outside the precinct will be asked to leave this meeting. In this regard, I ask any members partaking via Microsoft Teams, prior to making their contribution to the meeting, to confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is again imperative that they comply with any such direction.

I propose we publish the opening statements and submissions provided by the witnesses on the committee website. Is that agreed? Agreed. I suggest we invite our witnesses to speak for up to a maximum of ten minutes and we allow members to ask questions or make comments for approximately five minutes. We may have a second round of questions. Members will be called upon to speak as they appear on the week three speaking rota, which has been circulated. The first speaker will be from a Fianna Fáil slot, followed by Sinn Féin and Fine Gael. I am conscious there is a motion of confidence ongoing in the Chamber that may interrupt the proceedings today. I ask members to stick within their time and I will not allow people to run over time today. I apologise in advance. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The item for discussion today is a departmental briefing in advance of possible pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of the short-term letting and tourism Bill 2025. The Minister referred the revised general scheme of the short-term letting and tourism Bill to the committee in accordance with Dáil Standing Order 181, on pre-legislative consideration and publication of Government Bills, and Seanad Standing Order 154, on the pre-legislative consideration of Bills by the committee. The committee has decided to meet officials from the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment and representatives of Fáilte Ireland before deciding whether to carry out pre-legislative scrutiny of this general scheme.

I welcome our witnesses here today. I welcome the following officials from the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment: Ms Niamh McGuire, principal officer in the tourism division; and Ms Michelle O'Mahony, assistant principal officer in the tourism accommodation and employment unit. I also welcome the following representatives from Fáilte Ireland: Ms Jenny de Saulles, director of sector development; and Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháin, compliance manager of registration and grading at Fáilte Ireland. They are all very welcome to the committee today. I invite Ms McGuire to make her opening statement.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank the Cathaoirleach and the members of the committee for the opportunity to discuss the general scheme of the short-term letting and tourism Bill. I am a principal officer in the tourism division of the Department, with responsibility for tourism accommodation and employment.

I am joined by my colleague, Michelle O'Mahony, assistant principal and Jenny De Saulles, director of sector development, and Maude Ní Bhrolcháin, compliance manager, registration and grading, both from Fáilte Ireland, the National Tourism Development Authority.

On 15 April 2025, the Government approved the general scheme of the short term letting and tourism Bill, establishing the legal basis for a new regulatory framework governing short-term lettings in Ireland.

The Bill proposes the creation of a comprehensive national register for all short-term lettings, defined as stays of up to 21 nights, to be managed by Fáilte Ireland, the body responsible for tourism accommodation registers in Ireland. This register will, for the first time, give Fáilte Ireland a full picture of the stock of tourist accommodation across the State. It will support more informed tourism policy and investment decisions, helping to ensure a sustainable short-term letting sector and a balanced tourism ecosystem.

Tourism has long been a key industry in Ireland, uniquely supporting communities and regional development. Beyond its economic contribution, it enhances Ireland’s global image by showcasing the country's people, culture and landscape. Last year, tourism accounted for nearly one-in-ten jobs, underscoring its importance as a major indigenous employer, supported by 46,000 tourism-related businesses. This context highlights the need for effective legislation to support and sustain the sector.

The rapid growth of the short-term letting market as a key provider of tourist accommodation is a challenge faced across many EU member states, not just Ireland. In Ireland, Fáilte Ireland reports that, as of August 2025, there are an estimated 35,400 short-term letting units listed on the four main booking platforms, with approximately 65% being listed as entire homes or apartments. This represents a 26.9% increase from an estimated 27,900 units listed in August 2022. Despite this growth level, recent analyses by the Department identified that this sector is experiencing low occupancy rates, meaning many buildings are only partially or intermittently in use.

To address the growth of the short-term letting sector and introduce regulatory oversight, the Government approved the drafting of the registration of short-term tourist letting Bill in December 2022. However, a required notification to the European Commission triggered a standstill period until December 2023, due to upcoming harmonised EU regulations for the short-term rental sector. Political agreement on the EU short-term rental regulation was reached in November 2023, with formal adoption in April 2024. As a result, Ireland's general scheme has been updated to comply with the new EU regulation and the broader EU Single Market laws on service provision.

The EU short-term rental regulation, effective from 20 May 2026, aims to increase transparency and support sustainable tourism by regulating short-term rental accommodations.

In response, Ireland has developed a revised short term letting and tourism Bill general scheme to implement these new EU requirements. The Bill mandates that all short-term letting hosts must register from May 2026, confirming compliance with planning, building and fire safety regulations, and ensuring that valid registration numbers are displayed on listings. It also places obligations on short-term rental platforms to display host registration details, perform verification checks and report detailed short-term rental data to authorities.

Key features of the Bill include: a national registration system; appointment of a competent authority and authorised officers; updated enforcement powers and penalties, including fixed payment notices and court proceedings; and an administrative sanction procedure, allowing fines of up to 2% of global turnover on non-compliant platforms, overseen by an independent panel.

The revised scheme has been provided to the European Commission under EU rules, and the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, looks forward to working with Oireachtas colleagues to progress this legislation in the interests of the development of tourism and contributing to the better use of existing housing for the common good. Additionally, to support the growth of tourism throughout Ireland, the Minister will bring forward a tourism accommodation strategy in 2026 as an output of the reframed national tourism policy, committed to under the programme for Government. This strategy will guide the provision of an appropriate mix of accommodation options to adequately service the industry and will explore innovative approaches alongside conventional models, with particular emphasis on less developed tourism areas.

I would like to conclude by noting our positive engagement to date with representatives from the short-term letting sector and the wider tourism sector, who have generally welcomed the introduction of the new national short-term letting register.

Finally, I thank the committee for the opportunity to discuss the proposed Bill here today. We look forward to addressing any questions that committee members may have.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms McGuire for her contribution. I now invite Jenny De Saulles, director of sector development, Fáilte Ireland, to make her opening statement.

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

I thank the Cathaoirleach and members for their invitation to discuss the general scheme of the short term letting and tourism Bill. My name is Jenny De Saulles and I am in attendance today, on behalf of Fáilte Ireland, with my colleague Maude Ní Bhrolcháin.

Operating under the aegis of the Minister and the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment, Fáilte Ireland is the National Tourism Development Authority, and its role is to support the long-term sustainable growth in the economic, social, cultural and environmental contribution of tourism to Ireland. Tourism is of critical importance to the Irish economy, driving €10 billion in revenue per year and supporting 226,000 jobs.

Fáilte Ireland has been tasked by the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment to develop and implement regulatory controls, including a statutory registration system for the short-term letting sector in Ireland, in compliance with the proposed short term letting and tourism Bill and the EU short-term rental regulation.

Fáilte Ireland currently manages several statutory tourist accommodation registers, and the establishment of the short-term letting register is a positive step for the tourism sector and has been a key strategic priority for the organisation.

To ensure the market has a balanced supply of tourist accommodation that can be accurately tracked, it is essential that Fáilte Ireland has a reliable source of accommodation data via the implementation of tourist accommodation registers. Robust tracking of accommodation stock will inform decision-making and strategic direction for key tourism investment and development across all parts of the country, ensuring the long-term competitiveness of the Irish tourism sector.

We estimate that approximately 35,000 short-term letting units, equating to approximately 165,000 bed spaces, are currently being advertised online across the main booking platforms. As this information is based on scraped open-source data, it cannot be regarded as definitive, but it is the best available data set pending introduction of the short-term letting register.

Under the new registration system, hosts will be required to register their short-term letting units with Fáilte Ireland to receive a unique registration number for each unit, which must be displayed on their unit listing. A new division was established in Fáilte Ireland to ensure that all systems, processes and procedures are in place to implement the EU short-term rental, STR, regulation and national legislation, including development of a user-friendly online registration portal.

The short-term letting register, along with implementation of the EU STR regulation, will provide Fáilte Ireland with more reliable data on the short-term letting accommodation in Ireland for the first time. The legislation will allow Fáilte Ireland to share short-term letting data with local authorities, which will help inform their planning enforcement functions for short-term letting.

For communities to thrive, there must be a balanced mix of long-term private residential and short-term letting accommodation for tourists. Therefore, both in the context of long-term sustainable development of tourism and staff accommodation challenges for tourism employers, we believe this initiative is not just good for housing but is also good news for tourism.

It is also acknowledged that the introduction of regulatory controls for short-term letting will impact the tourism accommodation market.

Fáilte Ireland will work with the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment in its preparation of a tourism accommodation strategy following Government consideration of the new tourism policy. This strategy will identify short- and long-term actions to support tourism accommodation supply and, working with the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment, Fáilte Ireland will implement actions to support its delivery. The Government and its agencies will work with industry to define and initiate solutions to enable accommodation growth in a balanced and sustainable manner, so the sector can continue to be a vital driver of the economy.

Given the role that short-term lets play in the tourism accommodation market, in particular in regional locations where other tourism accommodation may not be available or economically viable, Fáilte Ireland will continue to work with the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and local authorities to ensure there is an appropriate balance between housing and tourism stock. We will continue to engage with the sector and wider stakeholders to ensure that everyone is in a position to understand the new requirements and indeed the operation of the register.

I welcome questions from, and discussion with, the committee on this important legislation.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for attending. This is a difficult topic because we are faced with the housing crisis and we can see that the number of short-term lets has increased while the number of rental properties has decreased, but we also have a tourism sector, which was rightly highlighted.

I had a chat with the Irish Self-Catering Federation, which represents the owners of 6,500 holiday homes and supports 9,000 jobs. It has a few worries, which I will mention. First, if the businesses are expected to apply for planning permission by April 2026, it would involve approximately 30,000 applications. It also said that 540 positions are unfilled at the moment and asked whether the date is realistic. The federation agrees that the register of short-term rental accommodation is badly needed, but said the sector is not the total solution to the crisis and it is especially worried about - and I can see this point - short-term letting buildings that are historic. They might be old farm buildings that have been converted, places groups go for short times, such as weekends. The federation is looking for those kinds of buildings to be excluded. Do the witnesses have any thoughts on that? Some have been in business for many years and contribute greatly to tourism.

I am kind of involved in the tourism sector myself, so I feel this with those providers. We have an activity centre in Navan, County Meath. It is impossible to put up hen and stag groups any more. When we first opened 18 years ago, there was always somewhere to put them up, but there is nowhere now so I can see the demand for single nights.

The federation also proposes that a quality certificate be put on short-term lets outside high density urban areas. They are just a few of the federation's thoughts, which I thought I would bring up.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank the Senator for the questions. The Department absolutely shares the concerns of the Irish Self-Catering Federation. We are aware its members have worked hard to develop businesses over the years, have contributed to the local economies where they reside and provide jobs and income for those local economies.

Planning permission will be a requirement. At the moment, there are approximately 35,000 of these properties throughout Ireland, of which approximately 65% are full houses, apartments or other types of buildings. In all likelihood, they are second homes or additional properties owned by people. They are not the initial Airbnb design, which was for people offering a spare room in their homes to visitors for rent. Within this mix of self-catering accommodation, there will be properties that are not suitable for residential use, such as converted farm buildings. There are different types of glamping arrangements such as yurts and all types of different structures. It is the case that a number of those structures are not suitable for long-term residential use and in all likelihood, once they comply with the general planning requirements, there should be no issue with their owners applying for and availing of planning permission.

The issue around planning permission will really arise in the larger urban centres. On 15 April, when the Government approved the general scheme, the Minister for housing also brought forward a proposal that he would present to the Government a national planning statement for short-term letting, which would guide the planning rules for the short-term letting sector. In that, short-term letting accommodation in any towns or cities with a population of more than 10,000 people would generally be precluded from availing of planning permission. That is not to say that some would not get planning permission, for example structures that are not suitable for long-term residential use. However, for the most part, we are talking about houses and apartments that could be used to accommodate families so they will generally be precluded from the grant of new planning permission.

Identifying the number of properties in those areas is proving difficult. We look at a number of data sets. Fáilte Ireland has been conducting analysis of the short-term letting sector for the past three years by scraping data from four of the largest booking platforms. This data is an estimate. It is not precise because it is a scrape from the information visible on the system. We also have some data from Eurostat, which is experimental data collected on a voluntary basis from the four largest booking platforms. The Fáilte Ireland data is provided on a county basis. The Eurostat data, because of the way the European statistical system is designed, is based on broader categories because it uses the nomenclature of territorial units for statistics, NUTS, regions, so a number of counties might be grouped together. It is, therefore, difficult to identify the absolute number of properties in any of the towns the Senator asked about.

It is also difficult to develop an impact assessment for tourism. However, from looking at all those data points and CSO data in its inbound travel series and the domestic household survey it conducts, we know that while there are 35,000 short-term let properties throughout Ireland, the occupancy rates are quite low. Occupancy ranges from 3% to 36% at a peak in Dublin in August 2024. That is also a concern for tourism because it indicates that a number of businesses in the self-catering sector are struggling. They have developed their businesses but they are struggling to achieve the higher occupancy rates. There may be other reasons. It may be that the accommodation has been offered via a means other than the booking platform that provided the data to Eurostat. For example, repeat visitors might contact providers directly. There are some nuances to that data. However, it does present a concerning picture. While the short-term lets represent, if we just look at the cold numbers, 40% of tourism capacity, in reality, the number of tourism bookings made in the short-term rental market is at about 9%. They only have about 9% of market share.

The task for us next year - and this is the positive thing about the register - is that once we get accommodation providers registered, it will give us an opportunity to work with them to help to improve their position.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry to interrupt, but we are out of time and it is tight today, with the confidence motion.

We will go first to Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat. I will go first because, as the Cathaoirleach says, there is the motion of confidence in the Dáil.

I thank the witnesses for being here today. This is a good opportunity for us to discuss this really important legislation. What we are trying to achieve here is to ensure tourist accommodation is where it needs to be but also to try to contribute towards tackling the housing crisis, which is hugely important. I will say at the outset that Sinn Féin is very supportive of the regulation and particularly of the register. My colleague, Deputy Eoin Ó Broin, has called for this going back many years. We need to have regulation in that area. However, the practicalities of how it will work do concern me, particularly as regards the planning permissions that are required and, having spent time on the local authority, how that will be implemented. The first question I will ask is on the threshold of the €10,000. What are the witnesses' views on that? There is already a backlog of planning permissions in local authorities and I work with many constituents who find that when it comes nearer the time, further information is requested. Where a person is seeking planning permission retrospectively, I can see even greater difficulties in that, even in relation to things such as mapping, septic tanks and all of that. Will the witnesses talk to me about that and let me know how it will work, from their point of view?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The planning requirements put forward for short-term lettings are change of use-type requirements. It is a change-of-use application to the relevant local authority. Planning, of course, is a matter for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. We know it is working on the development of a national planning statement for short-term letting. We expect that statement will be brought to Government either by the end of this year or early next year. Once we have that statement, we will have clarity for the sector. We will then have a number of months before we get to the May deadline for the register.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Department having ongoing discussions about what is being formed at the moment?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Yes. I have regular meetings with the Department of housing and we are also now engaging with the Local Government Management Agency, LGMA, for the local authorities. The discussions centre around having the capacity there to deal with applications. Again, it is not known how many people will apply for planning. If we have 35,000 accommodation providers out there, we know that, in the main, potentially 90% of people have accommodation with less than ten bed places. We see that from the data. Most people have one property. It could be down to a personal choice whether people continue to operate as an accommodation provider. Some people in the large urban areas, in the cities or towns with a population of over 10,000, may just decide that their property is more suitable to the long-term rental market, or they may decide not to offer it on the long-term rental market but just to cease trading as a tourist accommodation provider. We do not have a very clear sight yet of how many people will actually apply for the change of use planning. We know the numbers of people who have change of use planning permissions are relatively low. The numbers are not really where they should be but that is based on the current rules and the rental pressure zones. The rule on rental pressure zones was extended countrywide very recently. The Department of housing is also bringing forward legislation to address the issue of the short-term letting being linked to the rent pressure zone. Once it introduces that legislation, that will pave the way for the introduction for the national planning statement, which will set out clearly the rules for short-term lettings.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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In that context, has the Department looked at the cost of change of use planning permission or at the scale of the costs? I know no two applications are the same but I ask about the drivers of that and the legal and other charges of obtaining planning permission.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

As planning matters are managed by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, I would not have information on the application costs for a change of use application. From what I understand from colleagues in housing, I do not think new documentation is necessarily required to be submitted for a change of use application if there is an initial planning permission in place, that is, planning granted for the actual building. However, I do not have the cost details for the change of use applications.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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The majority of the questions I have are on planning and for the Department of housing, which is unfortunate. We need a holistic approach to this so that we get it right. Regarding what has been done in other countries, is there any country Ms McGuire could name that has got this right in terms of bringing up accommodation for long-term letting but also ensuring all areas have a tourist offering and tourist accommodation?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

If we look across the EU member states, it has been quite a challenge trying to achieve a balance between the short-term letting sector to service the tourist industry and also the needs of the long-term residential market. We will not have the EU regulation in place until next May. Most of the regulations in other EU member states at the moment operate on a basis where they may receive voluntary information from the platforms. Therefore, enforcement of the regulations in other member states has been extremely challenging. They have not been able to achieve the results they have wanted to. This is why the EU regulation was brought about. From next year, there will be specific rules set out whereby platforms will have to provide particular sets of data and report on a monthly basis. That will enable planning authorities and competent authorities nationally, which will be managing the registers, to have information about where the properties are located. At the moment, the greatest challenge in the planning enforcement is identifying where properties are. If the Deputy looks on some of the online platforms, the address is not visible until a person books and pays for the property, so it is not possible to identify where the short-term lettings are located.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms McGuire. We will now proceed to Deputy McCormack from Fianna Fáil.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the ladies - Ms McGuire, Ms O'Mahony, Ms De Saulles and Ms Ní Bhrolcháin - for their presentation this morning. The short-term letting and tourism Bill that is coming in will probably give us a picture of what exactly is going on in that whole area of accommodation. As they were saying, one in ten jobs is provided in the tourism industry, which makes the industry a huge part of our economy. All types of accommodation are part of that and we do not want to have unintended consequences as a result of this. When we talk about 34,500 short-term units that are available and 165,000 bed spaces, it is quite a lot of bed spaces and people coming into, or moving around, the country who are spending money in localities that could probably well do with it.

I will direct my first questions to the Department. Has the Department assessed how the proposed short-term letting Bill may impact rural counties such as County Offaly, where tourism accommodation options are already limited? What measures will accompany the Bill to help smaller operators or family-run bed and breakfast accommodation transition into compliance without facing excessive administration or financial burdens? When I say that, I am talking about what was spoken about by Deputy Conway-Walsh with regards to planning and regulations around this. We all know that to get any sort of planning nowadays you have to bring in an architect, go through the hoops with them and it is quite costly. On top of that, whatever regulations we bring in or adaptions that have to be made to properties are also going to be costly. Will the witnesses come back on that?

I have a number of questions for Fáilte Ireland. In the case of education, what education or outreach programmes will Fáilte Ireland provide to help accommodation owners, particularly in rural and regional areas, to understand and comply with the new obligations?

Has Fáilte Ireland examined how restrictions on short-term letting could affect local economies and small businesses that rely on visitor spending? Will the witnesses answer those questions? I have a couple of other questions but I do not know if we will have time for them.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I acknowledge that, yes, there are 35,000 properties in the system but they are intermittently occupied. The occupancy levels range from just 3% to 36%. In the case of County Offaly, there are 220 short-term letting properties advertised online at the moment and 120 of those are listed as full houses or apartments. We know that equates-----

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Can I just come in there? I understand there are 220 properties. That is a lot of accommodation but unfortunately we have a very low hotel rate in County Offaly so they would be a huge part of our accommodation. While in other areas it might only be 3% to 34%, in County Offaly there might be a significant percentage of those being occupied a lot of the time. That is why I am wary of the unintended consequences of bringing something in that might affect the number of people coming into the areas.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The number of bed spaces and entire accommodation units in County Offaly is 700. The total bed spaces in County Offaly, when looking at other types of accommodation such as hotels, guest houses or whatever, is 1,750. Looking at the occupancy rates for the eastern and midlands region, the highest occupancy rate is 22% in short-term lettings. That means that for up to potentially 80% of the time, those 120 properties are vacant - are not in use - and the challenge that presents-----

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know. I understand where Ms McGuire is coming from but sometimes we throw the child out with the dishwater, unfortunately, when we quote figures like that. However, it must be remembered that weekends are the busiest periods where we have weddings and people coming for events. The weekdays are not so busy, so we cannot have a situation where we cut those off as well.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

No, and that is not the intention.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know, but sometimes we can get lost in figures that do not show the true picture.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

They present the data to us, so it gives us information in terms of conducting our analysis to try to understand the impact for that region. If we think about the economy of a region, it needs residents and tourists - it needs both. I know each local authority has a local development plan that considers the economy and tourism and it has a housing plan as well. What we all want to achieve here is balance so these economies can be supported and sustained into the future. If it is the case we have large numbers of properties in large urban areas that are intermittently occupied, it means there is no footfall or economic contribution either from a resident or a tourist. It means that, for a large proportion of the time, there is nobody in that area.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is rural areas where we need those units, so we need to reflect on that more before we come in with a broad brush and a broad stroke. I thank Ms McGuire and I appreciate that. I will move on to the representatives from Fáilte Ireland and give them a chance to come in.

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

I thank the Deputy. In terms of a few items that have come up, we will conduct an education outreach programme and link with the sectoral bodies but also the wider community through our destination and experience development plans, DEDPs.

The Deputy talked about supporting rural businesses. Even before the register comes in, and in line with the Minister, Deputy Burke's, policy at the moment, we are rolling out a number of programmes to help businesses to reduce the cost of doing business and to grow their market share and business, be that online through digital platforms or through marketing and sales initiatives. There are a lot of supports at the moment for rural businesses; they just need to tap into Fáilte Ireland. Those supports are available now whether the businesses are on the register or not.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Will the registration and compliance system Fáilte Ireland will have be user friendly? Ms De Saulles spoke about it being digitally integrated but how will the data be securely shared with Departments?

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

Absolutely. The system has been designed to be user friendly. It is literally a five-minute process, so there are a number of screens where the user has to fill in the key unit data and the property. In terms of data protection, all data collected under the short-term letting, STL, registration system will be processed in accordance with the GDPR and the EU STR regulation and law enforcement directive. Fáilte Ireland will adhere to all data protection principles including lawfulness, fairness, transparency, data minimisation, storage limitation, integrity and confidentiality.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentations. I reiterate the comments of my colleague, Deputy Conway-Walsh, in terms of our broad support for the proposals. I have a couple of questions and will be brief to allow the witnesses time to respond. How was the figure of the 10,000 cut-off point in population size of any particular location reached? Was any consideration given to regional variations? It is a fairly arbitrary figure and a catch-all for all parts of the country.

The number of properties the Department has assessed as not currently having planning approval for what they are doing will require a flood of planning applications to be made. Is there leeway in terms of allowing people the space to make those applications and not close down their operations? Is there an additional resource in terms of dialogue with the Department responsible for this area to meet what could be a flood of demand from people trying to become regulated?

What sort of dialogue has there been with the platform providers in terms of the requirements on them to make sure they are only providing a platform for people who are duly regulated and properly accredited? What is the conversation there? I know witnesses have spoken about potential fines for those who are not complying but what has the response been in that regard? Is there an enthusiasm for doing this? Is there an acceptance it needs to be done? How will that relationship work? I know an independent panel has been proposed. We have not seen what the make-up of that panel would be or what authority it might have. How will that relationship work through? My questions just relate to those areas.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank the Senator. In the matter of the figure of 10,000, the Minister for housing, Deputy Browne, brought that proposal to the Government on 15 April and the proposal to introduce the cap of 10,000 per population from the previous census was approved. In terms of the resource-----

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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Was there any consideration of regional variation? There are some towns for which tourism is not such an important function and then there are other towns, particularly in the west and in rural areas, where tourism has a huge function. Was any consideration given to regional variation or was a number just picked and that was it?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I am not privy to the decision-making process in the Department of housing but that is the proposal that was made by the Minister for housing, Deputy Browne, to the Government and accepted.

On the planning resource, I understand from our engagement with colleagues in the Department of housing that they are looking at the resources required in order to deal with the planning applications next year and that process.

In terms of the-----

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry to interrupt. We will have a vote in the Dáil in about seven minutes so we will have to suspend and then resume after that. Is that agreed? Agreed. Please proceed, Ms McGuire.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

We have engagement with the online platforms at national and EU level. At EU level, the European Commission established a number of webinars and engagement mechanisms with the online platforms. Generally, they are attended by the largest booking platforms, the ones we would all be very familiar with such as Booking.com, Expedia and Airbnb. The European Commission has developed a prototype that each member state will use to exchange data with the platforms. That is to ensure we are all operating from the same rules across the EU.

That makes it easier to deal with the various countries and their data requirements. At a national level, we have engaged with platforms. We have invited them to a number of round-table discussions and they have had ample opportunity to make their views known. They also made submissions to the Department of housing's national planning statement dialogue, which was an opportunity for all accommodation providers, including platforms, to do so, so we have engaged with them. They are aware. Their obligations are set out clearly in the short-term rental regulation. They also have existing obligations-----

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise for cutting across Ms McGuire. The voting bell in the Seanad has been ringing for quite a while so Senator Conor Murphy might want to run up to the vote.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I apologise.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I suggest we suspend and will resume immediately after the vote. I am unsure exactly how long it will take, but I ask the witnesses to stick with us for the time being.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am conscious that I interrupted Senator Murphy. Does he want to proceed with his questions?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I am not sure if the Department can answer this. We talked about the resource for planning. I will allow Ms McGuire to finish the point in relation to the platforms, but I also raise the resources in relation to planning. Was there any discussion in terms of flexibility to make sure that people had space to put in for planning? If a backlog arises and people cannot register, tourism provision will drop off and suffer as a consequence. Is there any discussion regarding flexibility to make sure that the necessary steps that would follow through from the legislation are enabled to happen through the planning system?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I will resume the answer on the platforms and their obligations. The platforms have a number of obligations set out in the regulation and under the Digital Services Act. They have to design the interface of their platform in a particular way that allows for a display of a registration number in order that it is clearly visible to a person booking the accommodation. The address details need to be displayed and will be made available to the competent authorities. They have to do a number of verification checks as well to check that numbers are valid and engage with member states on those checks. In the case of the larger platforms, they have to provide monthly reports on short-term letting activity data. That is a whole suite of data which will be very useful and welcome in terms of tourism data. That data includes the location of the property, how many guest nights were sold in the previous month and the country of origin of the people who stayed in the accommodation. We will have a whole raft of information. The engagement process with those platforms happens at both national level and EU level with the European Commission. The planning is a matter for the Department of housing and the local authorities. As I understand, they are looking at the resource requirements.

There was a question on flexibility if there was a backlog. From 20 May, an EU regulation will take immediate effect in law which will require a registration system. From May, providers will be required to register and confirm compliance with planning. If somebody cannot do that at that point, they will not be in a position to register. It will be necessary for accommodation providers to have their planning permission in place prior to the May launch date of the register.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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The next slot is my own. I welcome the witnesses. I am quite interested in this issue, because between the organisations that have raised the matter with me, the ISCF and the constituents who have approached me in my own area, I have been fascinated by what I might describe as the unintended consequences of changes in legislation and how they impact the tourism sector. I might reference one case study in my home parish of Killeagh specifically. A farm undertook a significant project to bring back dilapidated derelict housing and turned it into a beautiful Airbnb facility. Significant investment went into that. By modern standards, that same facility would not be deemed appropriate to be residential housing but it is perfect for tourism purposes. A lot of people out there have done these types of investments. We have all seen the Airbnbs and what they look like. Some have been done to a really high standard. People are quite afraid of changes in rules and how it impacts what they have done and the retrospective need for addressing planning concerns, etc., because all of this is quite new. How conscious is the Department of the people who have put in that type of investment? I accept that it is very hard to legislate for individual cases, but I wanted to make that point on behalf of the people who have come to me who are very worried and assume they will be hurt in the proposed changes and how it will impact them.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

As I said earlier, the Department understands the concerns from the Irish Self-Catering Federation and its members. We are aware that a lot of accommodation providers have invested financially and with a great deal of work to develop the accommodations that they have. It means that the tourism sector has a range of unique accommodation types, which I think is what any tourism industry needs. When the new regulatory requirements are introduced, if it is a case that a property has been developed and it is not necessarily suitable for residential use, that will be considered by the local authorities in terms of the change of use application process, if that is required for that property.

It would be important to present this in the application for change of use and to make the case. If we are speaking about a farm location, I assume it is outside of an urban area with a population of more than 10,000 people. In all likelihood, I would say a positive view would be taken by the local authority. As I said earlier, from our conversations with the Department of housing, the local authorities are trying to manage this in a sustainable way. They have to consider the economic development plan for their area and the housing plan for their area. They want to try to achieve balance across the system. We would hope that will be what happens when the new rules are introduced.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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On the guidance, local authorities often say, when we discuss items that might cross into planning with them, that they very much depend on what has been handed down to them from Departments with regard to having the information they need to make decisions.

I want to highlight my local town of Youghal, where I went to school and grew up. It is a town that is entirely dependent on tourism for its economy. It has lost almost 80% of its bed capacity because an IPAS operator purchased a hotel resort in the town, the former Quality Hotel in Redbarn. Other locations in the town were also formerly used for tourism and are now used for IPAS and benefactors of temporary protection, who are Ukrainians fleeing the war. We also have the RPZ issue in these towns, where there are properties that could service the tourist economy and help to bring business onto the streets to provide some bit of economic prosperity for restaurants and the hospitality industry. Do the witnesses have a view on these matters? I know Youghal is not alone. There are many other locations, particularly in places such as counties Clare and Wexford, where there is a shortage of tourist accommodation. I would like to get views on that.

I want to add an addendum. The Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, has asked me to raise the issue of Airbnb accommodation located in residential housing estates, in Killarney in particular. This is the issue of short-term letting or tourist accommodation being provided in housing estates where most of the occupants are residents. We could question how appropriate this is when we think they are being used for stag dos, people going to concerts and hen parties. There is a level of noise and discomfort for local residents in the area. I wanted to make these two points to get a view on them.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

On the RPZs and guidance for the local authorities, the Department of housing is developing the national planning statement. We expect it to be published by the end of the year or early next year. It will set out clearly a consistent approach for all of the local authorities to follow. At present the RPZ rule applies but I know it is being looked at in advance of the introduction of the national planning statement. It will mean moving from one regime to a new regime, which will be set out under the planning statement.

The Cathaoirleach mentioned use of residential accommodation for tourism, and this can present difficulties. As he pointed out, tourist footfall in a residential estate or apartment block can be disruptive for communities. Tourism relies heavily on the support of communities, especially in Ireland. The Irish welcome relies very much on the social contract we have between the tourism industry and local communities. If we lost that, it would cause damage to the industry. It is important that we have clear sight of where the accommodation is. This is what the register will help us to achieve, and we can work with accommodation providers to help them develop their businesses even further. If there is a case where unregulated accommodation is offered in a residential area, it can be addressed because we will have an evidence base to address it. At present, it is very challenging for local authorities to address these instances. They are aware of them but it is very difficult because the exact location of the property must be pinpointed, the case must be built and there must be evidence to support an enforcement case.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry to interrupt but my time is up. If I cannot self-police, I cannot count on the co-operation of the committee. Our next speaker is Deputy Eoin Hayes.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I thank the witnesses for coming before the committee. It is great to have them all here. I know it involves a lot of preparation and sometimes it is intense to deal with all of the various questions that come so I really do appreciate it. Before I get into the substance, I want to thank the witnesses sincerely for the work they do for the tourism industry. There are 250,000 people employed in the industry, which is substantial. When we think about the indigenous economy more generally, it makes a huge difference not only in places I represent such as central Dublin but also in small towns and villages throughout the country. It is very welcome and I applaud the witnesses for their work.

I will now turn to the Bill. I am probably coming at this from a very different perspective, which is that I feel housing is the biggest crisis facing the country by a long shot. This Government and previous Governments have not done sufficient work to tackle it. I think we all recognise that the 2019 legislation on short-term lets was inadequate. That might have been the European Union's fault in some ways rather than Ireland's but it is very important that we get this right.

The witnesses may not know that this week is maths week for schools, so I will go through some numbers that have been presented to me. From the information provided, we estimate that 20,320 full homes are being used for short-term letting. The regulatory assessment states that approximately 10,000 of these could be brought back into long-term letting use. This is my starting point. If there are approximately 10,000 per year, then by the time the legislation is implemented next year there will be 22,000. If there are 165,000 beds across 35,000 short-term lets, this means there are, on average, 4.7 beds per unit. This means we are speaking about somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 beds that could be brought back into long-term use, which is about three to six times the number of people in emergency accommodation in Ireland. This is not just a small thing. It is something that could really move the needle on homelessness and housing. It is very important that we get it right. By way of example, if we apply the same proportions, then approximately 21,000 beds are in the county of Dublin, part of which I represent. There are 21,000 people on the social housing list in the county of Dublin. We could solve the social housing list, perhaps overnight, with something like this so it is very important.

I am a little concerned about the development and planning exemption for towns where there are fewer than 10,000 people. It would exclude towns such as Dingle, Kinsale, Westport, Dungarvan and Dalkey. These are all places that have featured in the national media as having housing crises or housing supply issues. There is a question there, which I know is more for the Department of housing, about how we deal with this type of stuff.

I was a member of Dublin City Council for quite a while and there is a statue in City Hall of some viscount who used to run Ireland back in the 18th or 19th century. It has a quote on it that I really like, which is that property has its duties as well as its rights. Sometimes we forget about that in the modern economic context in Ireland. There are a few questions I want to get into and I want to give the witnesses some time to answer them. I will try to get back to some other points if I have time.

From everything I have read and all the material that is here, the key issue that all of this hinges on is the question of voluntary information from platforms. I do not want to be too personal about this but can we force Airbnb, Booking.com and all of these companies to provide the information? Are the witnesses confident the Bill will do this? If that is not right, this will all fall apart. It is the key comparative international experience as well.

There is also an interaction and I am conscious we are asking a lot of Fáilte Ireland in dealing with the housing issue, as well as supporting the tourism industry. Local authorities have their role to play. The Department of housing, other institutions and Revenue even have their role to play in all of this as well. I want to make sure that in Fáilte Ireland's view, it believes that co-operation and multi-agency approach can be effective to get to the outcomes we need.

On enforcement resources, does Fáilte Ireland believe it has sufficient resources? Did it get enough in the budget for this new department and the number of people required? I realise some of this is very data- and technology-heavy. I congratulate anyone who did that scraping of the Internet every month. That person deserves some level of award. That kind of stuff is really good and I want to make sure that we, as a committee, are enabling Fáilte Ireland as best as possible to deal with this issue.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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The quote was from Thomas Drummond.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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It was Thomas Drummond, there you go. That is exactly it.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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It was in the second episode of "QI".

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank Deputy Hayes. We discussed the obligations of platforms earlier. The short-term regulation requires that all member states introduce effective and dissuasive enforcement mechanisms. In the case of Ireland, we are introducing what will be a financial and administrative sanction procedure. This will allow a panel, appointed by the Minister, to apply fines of 2% of global turnover. They are quite substantial fines. They will be in place because we believe that is what is necessary to ensure platforms comply. Some level of compliance will also be managed by the European Commission under the Digital Services Act. The various competent authorities and regulatory bodies under that Act will have some element of supervision and enforcement as well.

In terms of this action and addressing the housing issue, this is one action of many in the Government's housing strategy. The aim here is to ensure we try to achieve balance in terms of the short-term and long-term rental market because of the rapid increase we have seen in growth of short-term letting over the past number of years. The Deputy mentioned the Dublin data. If we look at entire houses and apartments in Dublin alone, there are 17,700 bed spaces. At the height of their occupancy, there were 36% of those occupied in August 2024. If we assumed they were occupied at that level throughout the year, that would equate to 2.3 million guest nights. In order to replenish that stock, we would need 6,372 hotel bed spaces to come into the system, which is happening, or another type of accommodation provider where the accommodation is fully available.

I understand the concerns and frustration because we have a homeless crisis and we have more than 17,000 bed spaces that are vacant for more than 60% of the time. That is a huge loss of opportunity for housing - for the people who do not have a home - and for the economy and tourism industry also. If we have a well-regulated system, we should have a situation where houses that are in residential areas and apartment blocks where families live should be occupied by residents most of the time and that other types of accommodation more suited to tourism are occupied by tourists as much as possible. If we can get it up to 100%, that is where we all want to get.

If we talk about the housing challenge, it is faced not just by Ireland but across the European Union. We engage with our counterparts at an EU level to try to develop initiatives and make sure we are implementing the regulatory controls in a good way and learning from the regulatory experiences of other countries as we go. Over the past number of years, in the absence of short-term rental regulation which places an obligation on platforms, it is extremely challenging to introduce regulatory requirements because it is just ineffective.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am afraid I will have to cut across as we have gone two minutes over time. We now proceed to Deputy Lawlor.

George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank the witnesses for their very informative contributions. The key things here are the unintended consequences of any proposal that is made. The witnesses spoke about county councils having tourism policies and housing policies and trying to combine both. In many respects, this is effectively regarded as a housing-specific issue from the point of view of looking at towns with a population in excess of 10,000 and trying to reduce the short-term letting that is there because it is felt it will improve the situation with regard to housing accommodation.

I totally understand the frustration of short-term letting providers, particularly in the area of planning requirements. All the information in relation to the actual physical property is already held by the local authorities. Yet, people who are in the short-term letting area are required, once again, to submit an application at quite a cost in order to satisfy the requirements. I would like to know Fáilte Ireland's feelings on that. It was said it is a planning issue but has there any interaction between the planning sectors of county councils on this? Given that it is about tourism and housing, have any approaches been made to councils directly about the development plans that are negotiated solely by the members of the local authorities? It is one of their reserved functions.

Ireland was traditionally a place of self-catering. We all remember the ads back in the eighties and nineties with self-catering accommodation in Ireland. Traditionally, we were a country that welcomed individuals to come and stay in the likes of these properties that were on offer, be it in rural or urban areas. On enforcement, I wish Fáilte Ireland the best of luck with that. As a member of a local authority for 20 years, the level of enforcement with regard to any element of antisocial behaviour is basically non-existent. It is certainly non-existent when you are talking about the RTB. You might as well be throwing your hat at it. For years and years as a local representative, you would be trying to tackle the scourge. I wish Fáilte Ireland the best of luck with the notion it will be able to enforce the regulations because enforcement is non-existent in many areas.

Regular meetings with the Department of housing and the LGMA were suggested. What is their view on this? Is the view of the Department of housing that short-term rentals are having a hugely detrimental impact on housing? There was a Housing for All ambition in County Wexford for housing because the county has about 3,500 people on the housing list. I disagree with my colleague, Deputy Hayes, on whether 21,000 bed spaces could solve the housing issue because there are so many different factors to that. Not every one of those 21,000 beds will be suitable for long-term accommodation for people who require it. What is the view of the Department of housing in this regard? Does it view this as a contributing factor to the housing crisis?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank Deputy Lawlor. The first part of the question dealt with planning applications. From our engagement with the Department of housing, our understanding is that the planning requirement is a change of use application. Our understanding is that if somebody has an existing planning permission granted for their property and has existing records on file, such as architect's drawings or whatever, those records still stand for the change of use application.

George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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The council does not require more?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

As far as I understand it. It would be useful for any individual to check with their local authorities but that is what I understand from my engagement with the Department of housing. If somebody has an existing record on file and has their planning-----

George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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What about if the house is post 1964, for instance?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I do not know about older records.

George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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Okay.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

It would be useful for somebody in that circumstance to engage with their local authority and establish what they will need to make their way into compliance. In terms of enforcement, if you think about how the system will work, a person will have to register and confirm compliance from next May. They will get a registration number. They will need that number to access the market and use the platforms.

If they do not have that number, the platforms will not be allowed to put their listing up. That is where these platform requirements come into place. The design of the system enables the competent authority, which will be Fáilte Ireland, to effectively block access to the market if someone is not appropriately registered with a valid registration number.

Beyond that, in cases where people are found operating with a number that is perhaps suspended, withdrawn or invalid, Fáilte Ireland will have the option to issue a fixed-payment notice. I will allow the witnesses from Fáilte Ireland to go into that in greater detail.

George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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Will that have to include evidence, such as Garda evidence, or how is that point reached?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

With regard to the initial point about the registration number, that will be the regulatory system across Europe. From May 2026, any short-term let in any member state will need to have a valid registration number. The main booking platforms will not be able to list the property without the registration number. Even in the absence of enforcement, from next May, there is no mechanism for someone to advertise their property if they do not have a registration number. That is the design of the system.

Beyond that, if there are cases where properties manage to get onto the platforms with an invalid number, the platforms have obligations to check cases to ensure they are valid and to report those checks to the competent authority, namely, Fáilte Ireland. Down the line, Fáilte Ireland will have the authority to issue fixed-payment notices. The evidence will be obtained through the monthly reports from platforms on the activities of those properties. We will have evidence showing that people stayed in specific accommodation sold through a platform.

When it comes to engagement with the councils on their local development economic plans, Fáilte Ireland might be best placed to address that. It does a lot of work with local authorities in the area of local development, such as destination development plans. I will hand over to Ms Jenny De Saulles from Fáilte Ireland to address that question.

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

I will answer the question about our partnership with local authorities and then I will hand over to my colleague, Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháín, to answer on the enforcement piece. We have a good, close working relationship with all of the local authorities and are in the process of developing MOUs with them. We provide input into their development plans. All of the local authorities are also part of our destination development plans within tourism. For example, for tourism, we have codeveloped and co-implemented plans. We work together and are aware of each other's challenges. We have met with the-----

George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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Does Fáilte Ireland speak to the members or officials of local authorities? I apologise for cutting across Ms De Saulles. It is the members who control the development plan.

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

Yes, we do. While we have specific contacts within local authorities, when it comes to the development plans, we speak to those who are involved in those plans. I will hand over to Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháín to talk about enforcement.

Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháín:

On the enforcement side, Fáilte Ireland has a dedicated compliance team that will be undertaking enforcement activities in relation to the short-term letting register. We will be undertaking market surveillance. As our colleague, Ms Niamh McGuire, said, the information from the online market and the offerings of those short-term lettings, which will be sent to us by the booking platforms, will be utilised so that we can check the listings and bookings made and determine whether a valid registration number has been utilised.

With regard to evidence capture, we will absolutely be capturing evidence. We will capture evidence of the offence, that is, to advertise without a registration number, or with an invalid one, in other words, to advertise without actually being on the register. We will have the evidence and be able to capture that in house. Garda evidence will not be required.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise but that is all we can allow for on time. We now proceed to Deputy Albert Dolan.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas le Michelle O'Mahony, Niamh McGuire, Jenny De Saulles and Maude Ní Bhrolcháín. I really appreciate them being here today and running through this with us. I have a few key questions. In east Galway, which is the area I represent, we have the benefit of the Wild Atlantic Way. We have such beautiful scenery but, with that, we have a significant number of Airbnbs and accommodation on booking.com operating. From speaking to people in the industry, they welcome the register. Everyone welcomes the register and understands its importance. It will also provide a baseline for standards and ensure that people are compliant with standards so that a good-quality accommodation service is provided. From the perspective of the Department of enterprise and tourism, that is important because once we have standards, we can ensure we are giving tourists an incredible experience right across the country, no matter where they are staying. That is important.

The fear, however, is coming completely from a planning perspective. It is important to say that not every short-term let is built the same. There are pods, cabins and other creative solutions. Such accommodations would not suffice as long-term rental accommodation. They are designed in their nature to provide a short-term stay. Many of them do not have planning permission, however. Most people operating in rural east Galway do not have planning permission. They are either renting a room in their home that is in a scenic location, or they have a pod in their back garden or something like that. It provides a fantastic income for a family. It also provides that capacity in rural areas that do not have capacity, so it is really good. The fear is that as soon as they register and confirm the details, they will be hit with enforcement notices from local authorities.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

From next May, any self-catering accommodation provider will be required to register and confirm compliance with planning in order to avail of the registration number they will need in order to access the market and offer-----

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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If they confirm compliance with planning, will that be checked or is that just a tick-box exercise?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

It is a self-declaration but it is indeed a declaration. It will be verified at a later point with Fáilte Ireland. The authority will be granted to Fáilte Ireland, through the short-term letting and tourism Bill, to share data with the local authorities. Fáilte Ireland will be able to engage with the relevant local authorities to check and verify that properties have the appropriate change of use planning in place.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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What is the definition of “change of use”? Is it changing it from residential to-----

Ms Niamh McGuire:

It is changing it from residential to commercial. It is changed to a business, basically.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Okay, so it is seen as a business.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Yes.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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That is going to cause havoc. It will cause huge disruption for a lot of the accommodation offered in rural Galway. We absolutely need to see more units coming back into rental stock in our towns and cities. There is no reason for a three-bedroom apartment in a large town to be an Airbnb, but I have a massive fear that we are going to get rid of all of these small pods and cabins for no reason when they are providing a great service which people take great pride in. Is there anything we can do to stop that?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Those accommodation offerings are important. They are the types of unique experiences people look for. They are away from the standard accommodation we are used to. People are always looking for those types of experiences. If we are talking about rural Ireland, we are talking about areas that are outside of the 10,000 population cap, so we expect they will be granted planning to operate as tourist accommodation providers.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Does Ms McGuire not think this will put an undue cost and burden on people providing this accommodation? They will have to employ a consultant, architect or someone to get planning and then they will probably end up having to do some environmental impact report to say that they are connected to the septic tank and it is functioning properly. I am not trying to be blasé about it, but I am just saying that this is going to put a huge burden on families who are operating these really great services.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

If an existing structure has the basic planning in place, our understanding from the Department of housing is that there should be no need to engage architects or other consultants for additional paperwork. If their paperwork is with the local authority for their existing planning application, that paperwork should stand and be used for the change of use application. A lot of the glamping pod structures have planning in place already.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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No. While some in more visible locations have planning, there are hundreds of these hidden.

I am just being honest about it. People have them in their back gardens. They are generating an income off them. They are working mighty and causing no harm to anyone. Now, the system is going to come down on them like a tonne of bricks and they will not get the planning. I bet what will happen is that there will be one house that has a pod going out onto a national road and then Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, will put in an objection to it - Ms McGuire is smiling at me because it is true. Then, what will happen is that somebody will be putting it in an area of special conservation and as a result, he or she will not get planning. This gradually will break down people who have these pods. These are the ones we should not be going after because these are the ones that are not going to be used as long-term rentals because people do not have apartments in their back gardens. The other issue is that the updated exempted development guidelines are coming. We anticipate that there is going to be a proposal for something like a back yard modular unit, but that will not require planning. That will not be in place before this regulation comes into place in May and if it does, then happy days. I am just fearful, however. Does Ms McGuire think this is going to put an undue burden on people?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Of course, with the introduction of any new regulatory system, there is a burden on businesses. For our part, we are trying to assess that burden in terms of what people will be required to do. Fáilte Ireland has worked very hard to ensure that the actual registration system is fast and effective. We are working hard to ensure that the fee structure we designed for registration is at a very low cost for businesses. We are very mindful of the-----

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is my last question. Will local authorities be able to access the register? Is the register publicly available for anyone to access or is this more so for the Department?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Yes. It is a public register. The EU regulation requires that the register is available on a public basis. That does not mean that an individual's name and address is public. It means that the registration number is available. It helps in a sense as well to combat fraud. There may be some levels of fraud where properties can be advertised and then they do not exist. If people wanted to check that a property really existed by the registration number, the opportunity would be there for them to do that. We are not minimising in any way the burden this is placing on businesses in terms of going through that planning process, but I absolutely understand that this is unfortunately necessary in order to legitimise those businesses and get them on to the register. We hope that once we get those businesses onto the register, we can work effectively with them to try to improve their business opportunities to develop that business network. Tourism is very much a collaborative economy. It is about all the different types of businesses working together, so we will work on that.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry; I am going to have to cut across Ms McGuire. I thank Deputy Dolan very much. We will now go to Senator Fitzpatrick.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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I thank everyone for their presence today and the work they have been doing on this important legislation. With every change, there are always challenges. It is really important for us to recognise the value of tourism for our economy and our country and value those who are working in the tourism sector, the jobs they create, the services they provide and the way they showcase the culture and landscape of our beautiful country. While there will be a bit of pain and that has to be accepted, in the long term it will be to the benefit of our tourism offering that we have in place a national register. It will further enhance the standing of our tourism offering. We are not a budget tourism destination. We are a relatively high-value and high-cost destination. It is, therefore, really important that the product we offer is operating to the highest of standards, and a national register can certainly help to achieve that.

I have a couple of questions. I appreciate the point Ms McGuire made about the inadequacy of the available data. Obviously, 35,400 properties have been scraped from the web. Approximately 23,000 of them are full properties or full households that could potentially be used for long-term sustainable living, for which we have a significant need. Does Ms McGuire have any view or insight into the percentage of those 35,400 properties being located in areas with a population greater than 10,000? Is that a number she has to hand?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

We do not have that number. This is the difficulty. The scrape data gives us a county view. The Eurostat data is based on various regions, so we have a regional view with the Eurostat data. Any of the Central Statistics Office, CSO, data we have is derived from the inbound tourism series and household surveys. That does not give us any detail of the number of properties.

We have reached out to the main platform operators and asked if they would consider providing an anonymised version of this data to us. They obviously have to take into account commercial considerations, and they have not agreed to share that data with us. However, we anticipate that they may potentially share it with the Irish Tourism Industry Confederation. We may have sight in the future of a report that may help us to identify how many properties we are talking about. That is where we want to get to. We are very much cognisant of the jobs that tourism supports - one in ten jobs in Ireland - and how important it is. Those jobs are in every town and region in Ireland. They support labour market participation-----

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

-----because people can enter into those jobs at every level. They are, therefore, really important. We want to protect those jobs where we can, but we have to find the balance going forward between what we need in the short-term rental sector and meeting the needs as well of the long-term sector.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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How will the 10,000 population be measured? Is a property to be within-----

Ms Niamh McGuire:

It is the census boundary from the previous census.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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Okay.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The CSO has the map, and it is available, so somebody can see. The question we put to the online platforms was about whether they would they be able to cut the data - I believe they can - to the census boundaries, but they were not prepared to share that data with a Government Department for commercial reasons, which I understand.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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When will the register be open for registrations?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The register will be open from next May. The EU regulation takes direct effect from 20 May, and we expect to have the register in place on that date.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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How long does Ms McGuire think the process of registering a property will take an individual?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I can hand over to Ms Ní Bhrolcháin or Ms De Saulles from Fáilte Ireland who designed the register and system and will be able to give the detail on that.

Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháin:

The design of this registration portal has been with the user at the front of it. We want to have as user-friendly a portal as possible. The registration of one unit or one property will take less than five minutes. It is very clean. There is no fuss in it. It is just straightforward information that we are requesting.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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If I register a property and put in my eircode, will the registration system trigger automatically that the property falls within a jurisdiction of greater than 10,000 population and requires planning permission?

Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháin:

No, it will not. As our colleagues from the Department referenced earlier, the registration system works on the basis of self-declarations by the short-term letting host. It is for the host to ensure that they are providing the information they need and that they legally have to require as part-----

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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Why was that not built into the registration process?

Ms Maude Ní Bhrolcháin:

That is a separate process. That would be in relation to the planning application process in terms of whether planning permission is required. What we do advise is for any short-term letting host to engage with their local authority in the first instance to establish their planning status and also if they require planning permission in order to operate their short-term letting.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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Why was it not built into the registration process? The registration process is meant to professionalise the offering and be fair to the applicants who are going to try to use it. This is a new step now in their business. This is a new cost to them. Why is the software not designed in such a way that if someone puts in an eircode, it will automatically trigger that it is within a population zone of 10,000?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

On the design of the registration system, in some way, there is a lot of detail in the short-term rental regulation that sets out what the registration system can capture, and what data the competent authority is allowed to hold and ask from a person in that process.

Each member state will make its own arrangements in terms of its specific planning rules; the 10,000 population cap in Ireland, for example. We expect the national planning statement to say planning will be generally precluded. That does not mean it is impossible to get planning. There could be an instance in an area where there is a population greater than 10,000 and somebody owns accommodation more suited to short-term letting. They apply for change of use planning or have existing change of use planning in place, and they need to register. If we had designed a system that immediately pulled out those cases, in which people are legitimately entitled to register-----

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but it could be designed in a way that ensures it could be overridden, or an exemption could be recorded in the system. I have not got an answer to my question: why are we going to the bother of creating an online registration process without building this functionality into it? I am out of time, as the Cathaoirleach is signalling to me. I will desist.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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My first question is concerned with some of the statistics shared around occupancy levels. Is any financial modelling done on average rates and how they compare to rent revenues on longer-term lets?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

We do not have any modelling on rates. The Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, carried out some research last year which looked at rates when it was considering the impact on the rental market. It identified that, in terms of the rate charged, a short-term let property would only need to be let for six to eight days per month, and in Dublin city centre for eight to ten days per month, to match the private rental sector rates. There is some detail in the ESRI study on the specific rates, which gives a breakdown. We have some of that information with us. That was the overview. I imagine the rate that can be charged varies around the country.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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From a regulatory perspective, will there be a cost for short-term let property owners to ensure compliance?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

What does the Deputy mean?

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The owners are getting a month's rental income in eight to ten days at the moment. They generate more revenue in eight to ten days than in the full 30 days.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Absolutely.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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So, there is going to be a cost on Revenue in relation to that. Has Fáilte Ireland done anything, beyond the register, as a potential incentive? Has it looked at how it could possibly be used as an enhanced tool around reservations?

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

As my colleague, Ms McGuire, was saying, we have to tie the register design into what is happening at the EU. There are limitations in terms of what we can tie into it. There is only certain data that we can capture and that can be a part of this. The EU legislation is very specific in terms of what this register can be. It is also very specific on what it cannot be.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Does that mean there cannot be a tool where reservations could be made directly from it?

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

No.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Definitely not. Okay. I would like to ask about the counties that have been identified as being towards the higher end of supply and the challenges associated with that. At the other end of the scale, where there is a low level of short-term lets, will Fáilte Ireland be actively encouraging more short-term lets or is it moving away from this as a potential offering? I ask this in terms of new buildings.

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

As we talked about earlier and as I mentioned in my opening statement, short-term lets are a key product in terms of what domestic and international visitors want. It is important for us to offer a broad spectrum of tourism accommodation products in Ireland. Yes, we want hotels, but we also want bed and breakfasts, self-catering accommodation, boats, caravans and camping. As part of the tourism policy and post the tourism policy, the Department will be developing an accommodation development strategy. We will be working with the Department on that strategy. It will very much be about future-proofing the tourism sector to meet the needs of the visitor and ensuring we have that broad spectrum. In no sense are we walking away from this type of product.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I would like to look at the product offering in places like rural France and Italy where they have agritourism. There is a concern here that this is something unprecedented and that it is going to have a major impact on short-term lets. How different will what we do be from the likes of those agritourism offerings in France and Italy?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

In terms of the agritourism product, Fáilte Ireland engages with many tourism businesses in developing their product. Once we have the register in place and we have businesses legitimately registered with Fáilte Ireland, it opens many opportunities to engage fully with Fáilte Ireland and its suite of offerings, and also engage with the network of businesses within the tourism sector.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Will the standard be higher here for rural, self-catering farm sheds that have been repurposed than in France or Italy?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The Minister and the Department have high ambitions for this sector. Through the tourism accommodation strategy, we want to develop, enhance and improve our offerings.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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From a red tape and regulatory perspective, will it be a higher cost to maintain the standard here compared to Italy or France?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

No. The same regulatory requirements will apply. Under EU Single Market rules, the offer of tourism accommodation is treated as a service, so the same rules apply across the EU. Whatever regulatory requirements they have in place in France following the introduction of the short-term rental regulation will apply in Ireland, bar the State having the right to, in some way, impose a planning requirement. Other than that, the regulatory requirements are the same.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I understand over €5 million has been invested in IT systems in the last number of years. Does Fáilte Ireland have the robustness to deliver the register and all the intricate pieces that will ensure its effectiveness? Will it need further investment?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The funding over the last number of years covers a number of elements. It covers pay for the team that has been built in Fáilte Ireland with people from IT, operational staff and that type of stuff to develop the business processes and systems they will need to have in place. It also deals with buying the ICT infrastructure that will be necessary. We are fully confident that Fáilte Ireland is well resourced to open the register next year and to have the regulatory framework and systems in place in order to manage the whole process effectively.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for their contributions. It appears that on the one hand, we have very welcome EU legislation for registration that makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, we have the Government and the Department of housing trying to crack down on people making a fast buck in urban areas when there is a housing crisis. They are both worthy things, but where they are meeting seems to be a total mismatch, to be quite honest. Ms McGuire said if there is already planning permission granted, that might be acceptable. Let us imagine a house that got planning permission 20 years ago for its area. Is it a case of just applying for a change of use and then it will be stamped? That is not in the legislation, but is that in fact how it is going to happen?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The short-term letting and tourism Bill says there is a requirement for people to self-declare that they have the planning in place. I understand the national planning requirements will require a person to have made an application for change-of-use planning. Our understanding from the Department of housing is that if somebody has an existing planning permission granted for their property there should be records there-----

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Just as normal planning.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The application is for a change of use.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Okay. In one sense it should be a continuation of use, but that is just being pedantic. Going back to what Senator Fitzpatrick said on the areas, the CSO has small area maps. One could easily use those small area maps to say that an area is exempt or not exempt. What a person has to do is to try to arrange a pre-planning meeting with very busy planning consultants in a local authority to get them to say they do not have to apply. There are areas. Where is the line drawn? Let us say a town has a population of 10,000, a municipal district that borders a rural town and village, and the property is in the municipal district. The person does not know where his or her area is and cannot apply to Bord Fáilte to declare unless he or she has all the planning conditions. If we are saying that May is the deadline, how will this information be put out? A planning application will take five weeks and if there is an appeal to An Coimisiún Pleanála, it is another four weeks. It needs to be done and dusted by the start of the year to be quite clear, so why can we not just use small area maps? This question is for Bord Fáilte.

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

That is a policy question. That really sits with the Department of housing. As my colleague, Ms McGuire, said earlier, the planning policy is coming in on how they do that. It is the Minister for housing making those decisions.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Are we waiting on separate legislation on that?

Ms Jenny De Saulles:

Yes.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The planning requirement is that all accommodation providers will have to apply for change of use planning to change from the property being a residential property to becoming a commercial entity. The national planning statement that will be published comes from the planning and development Act, the 2024 Act as amended last year. It will be the first national planning statement that will be introduced following the implementation of that Act. That planning statement will have to be approved by Government. That will set out the unified guidance on this for all of the local authorities and all of the elements they will need to consider in making that decision in determining whether a property should be retained for short-term letting or should it be returned to the long-term market. They will determine that.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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I have another context question. It relates to two things. One is the people who have bought a holiday home down the country, which they use. Perhaps a couple of families have contributed to house and they use it during the summer, at Easter, at Hallowe'en or whatever, but at other times the house is left idle. They are not trying rent it out for commercial purposes but the house has to be occupied, maybe to pay a couple of costs and to keep it heated to stop it going mouldy. This is one cohort. Then there is the cohort where, for example, someone owns a farm and they had a relative living in the house next door and this person has moved out because they could not get a job in the local area. Now they are using that. I know of a case down the country where there is a family with a farm. They have a house and they only rent it out for week-long periods. They do not rent it out at weekends for groups. Then there are other people who would rent it out a property weekends to groups for other reasons. They know that at Christmas they will have family members coming back to visit and they can stay in that house. Yes they are charging money for it that has to be declared for tax, etc., but it is not a business in the sense of a commercial operator or a commercial landlord. Where do we square that circle of the people who have their holiday home that is let out on occasion, and the people who have the next door house? They are never going to be a commercial landlord. They do not want to have a commercial tenant. They are not businesses so how do they fit into this scheme?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

There are various scenarios that arise. Certainly, they will present challenges, I expect, for some people in terms of the circumstances of letting the property-----

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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That needs to be clearly described surely, both in legislation and in any instruments.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

We are introducing the requirement that all properties would have to be registered to allow them then to be advertised on an online platform for short-term letting. That rule will apply to all properties whether it is the family home on the farm that is not fully in use or a property that may be a jointly-owned holiday home. If somebody wants to let their property on a short-term letting platform from next May, the EU regulation provides that they must have a registration number and be registered with a national competent authority. That will be a requirement for those accommodation providers. If it is a case that someone is offering accommodation in their own family home, or the case that some people-----

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Or next door to the family home.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

With your own family home, your primary principal residence, you can do that without the necessary planning requirement because it is your primary principal residence. As I understand from our colleagues in planning, you can let your home up to - I believe - 90 days without a need for change of use planning. Otherwise, I think, generally, you can have the room share scheme where you can let a room out of your primary principal residence. From the data, we know that for the most cases, the short-term lettings that are booked are the entire property. About 90% of bookings are for entire properties and roughly just under 10% are for shared accommodation. We know the market is mainly the entire properties. While understanding the challenges it presents for some people in terms of the use of their holiday home when they are not there, it is the case that the rules will apply to everybody.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Surely the rules should reflect the situation on the ground. I have one final question. Why did Fáilte Ireland not have a derogation for people in towns like Killarney and Tralee with over 10,000 in population that historically for decades have been letting out properties? Why not start it from day one to stop people trying to make a commercial killing by renting it out? There is a housing crisis and we need to deal with that. The families who are in these tourist towns have been doing this for decades. Would it not be simpler to say, "Show me you have been doing this and show me the books" and then to say, "Okay we are going to give you the registration, you can do that under EU law and you are not being blocked from doing that"?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Again, the national planning statement and the rules around short-term letting from a planning perspective are a matter for the Department of housing and the Minister for housing. In April the Government approved the Minister for housing's proposal to introduce the cap of 10,000. What we expect is that the national planning statement will include the requirement that anybody within an area with a population of over 10,000 from the last census will generally be precluded from planning. That is the case and that rule will apply.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Did they say they would give Bord Fáilte that clarity?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Again, we would hope that the planning statement will provide clarity around the various scenarios.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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The last member of the committee to speak today is Senator Aubrey McCarthy to be followed by a guest attendee, Deputy Danny Healy Rae.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I am just a bit confused with what my colleague, Senator Fitzpatrick, mentioned about the mechanism of how it works and the self declaration. I am involved with homelessness but I am also involved in the tourist sector. I remember back in 2017 Airbnb was going to be done away with, there was to be no more and everybody was warned. Anything I had as Airbnb in Dublin I made sure was stopped immediately. Nearly ten years later I am hearing that there are over 22,000 Airbnbs and 34,000 or 35,000 short-term lettings. My fear is whether whatever legislation is coming will be enforced. I thought it was going to be enforced back then and ten years later we still do not have the enforcement.

As Senator Fitzpatrick mentioned, people can self-declare their property but they might not have any planning permission for it and they can set it up as a short-term let. Where is the policing on that? Is it the local authorities which then have to go through the areas and say that certain properties should not be short-term lets. Is that the way it is going to work? That is the first question.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The provisions set out in the regulation require that the system is designed in a particular way to collect a particular set of data. The rules are that the competent authority, which in Ireland's case is Fáilte Ireland, has to collect the data from the accommodation provider and they have to, without checking, immediately issue a registration number. That is what the regulation requires.

Following the issuance of the registration number, the competent authority is then required to verify the information that was provided by the host or the declaration in the case of the planning. That verification takes place afterwards between Fáilte Ireland, which we will allow share data with the local authorities through the provision in the short-term letting and tourism Bill-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Are the local authorities going to police it?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

They are not going to police it. They will share data. Fáilte Ireland will have the registration and the exact address and location of the property. It will contact the appropriate local authority and ask it to confirm if that property has the required change of use planning. If it is the case that that property does not have the required change of use planning, then there is a procedure set out in the regulation that Fáilte Ireland has to follow. So, in the first instance, it has to contact the accommodation provider and make them aware of the situation and that their number is likely to be suspended, and the accommodation provider has a right of reply to that. So, there is a number of steps in that process.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Everybody who had an Airbnb was going to jail back in 2017. Nearly ten years later, that has not happened. It looks like there is going to be a lot of resources required in order to police this.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Not necessarily. A lot of this is managed by data sharing. Thankfully, these days we have a lot of very good systems that can help with that so it should reduce the need for a huge amount of manual resources. The data will come from the platforms on a monthly basis and that will tell us all of the properties in a particular area that have sold accommodation in the previous month. It will give us loads of data, which will be really useful in terms of tourism development, among other things. That data will identify for us cases where any property that is not properly registered with Fáilte Ireland, has a valid registration number and has planning permission in place.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I wear another hat. I am involved in homeless outreach, homeless centres, etc. We have a café on Pearse Street called The Light House where you meet a lot of people and we feed up to 500 people a day. One thing I am seeing is that the emergency accommodation numbers are just over 16,000, with 5,000 of them being children, which is unforgivable given the amount of houses that have been mentioned that are in short-term lets. The whole idea of this Bill is to make sure that those housing units will go back to full-time housing. Is there any strategy in that? Is there anything being done to make sure that happens or are we just assuming that that will be the outcome?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Of course we cannot assume. When we look at the data, in particular for Dublin, we know that there are 17,700 bed places in Dublin that are used for short-term letting at the moment.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Which cancel out our emergency accommodation nationally.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I am sure the Senator shares my view that when we talk about the number of homeless, in particular the 5,000 homeless children, it is not just a number to anybody here. It is a very real and serious issue. That is why it is so important that we all work now to achieve a balance between the short-term letting sector, which we all agree provides employment and revenue for the State and is a really good economic driver, and the long-term residential sector. Not having sufficient housing not only has societal impacts and impacts for those families and children, but also economic impacts. Many tourism businesses that Fáilte Ireland deals with - it surveyed them recently - struggle to retain staff because of housing shortages. It is a real issue. There are societal and economic impacts. That is why it is really important that this regulation be introduced and be effective.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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The Cathaoirleach mentioned Youghal. In areas like that, where tourism is the backbone and keeps the whole thing going, there has to be a delicate balance.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

It is a delicate balance. These are really important towns around the country and popular places to visit. We are interested in maintaining tourism in those areas and extending tourism to other regions to have a good regional spread of tourism to try to benefit all of the country. Tourism is a really effective economic driver in terms of trying to develop businesses in the local economy. Tourism is a collaborative economy. It is really important. Alongside that, we have the urgency around housing. It is a bit of a wicked problem, as what we will do to benefit one will cause a loss to the other.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank Ms McGuire and wish her the best going forward.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank the Senator.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to refer to one observation that was brought to my attention during the meeting, which I think is quite interesting. Fáilte Ireland was asked about the cost of what it would take. The questions for somebody who is putting an Airbnb through the planning process are as follows whether they going for commercial planning, do they need full architectural drawings, do they need environmental impact assessments done, and do they need to pay engineering fees and any other fees for the change of use? Is there consideration by the Department or Fáilte Ireland in relation to Government support being given by the Department or Fáilte Ireland to support people with these costs? As we explained, one person's costs nearly exceeded €11,000 just in following those steps. It is a worthy observation but, unfortunately, we do not have time for an in-depth analysis. I just wanted to raise this matter with both of the bodies with us.

There are two people offering who want to join this meeting as guests. One is Deputy Danny Healy-Rae and the other is Deputy Rory Hearne. I call Deputy Healy-Rae. I ask them for serious co-operation in terms of time because we have to vacate this room shortly after 3 p.m. I suggest that each Deputy speaks for five minutes each, if that is okay.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Yes.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am glad for this opportunity. I am not a member of the committee but I have an interest in and am very concerned about how this legislation will impact my county of Kerry that I represent, especially around Killarney, which I call the headquarters of tourism in Ireland. It will have an impact. We have hundreds of people who have been operating Airbnbs for a long time. If they have to go out of business or are forced out of business, I am very concerned for their well-being mentally, financially and every other way. I was brought up in a political house where it was made very clear to me that if you want to help one person or one side of the community, you do not adversely impact on the other side or the other person. In other words, you cannot put someone up by putting another person down. To me, this legislation is being brought forward due to a lack of housing and long-term lets around the country - in Kerry and the other 25 counties in the Republic of Ireland.

There are many people at this in Kerry, including around Killarney, for more than 20 years. Maybe they do not have official planning but they are at it for more than seven years. Do these people have planning by default due to the fact that they are at it for more than seven years?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Again, this is a policy matter for the Department of housing, but my understanding is that somebody cannot achieve planning by default and planning has to be achieved by an application to the local planning authority, which has to grant approval. There will not be a default mechanism in place for people who have been operating in the system for a long time.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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It is very clear to me that these people have been doing this for many years and they should not have to apply for planning. That is my contention and their contention, and this will be tested in whatever court it takes to decide the matter because they feel they are being hard done by. Their contribution to the local economy is massive. Consider how for a time in Kerry 36% of beds in hotels were taken up by refugees and asylum seekers. A lot of them are still used in that vein, although not the same amount, I will admit.

We will seriously damage our tourism product in the county of Kerry, especially around Killarney. At the same time, we will be affecting the Ring of Kerry and all the tourism spots if we do not have the footfall that emanates from these Airbnbs and so forth. Publicans, restaurants, boatmen, ponymen and jarveys, the whole lot, will all be impacted adversely. I am seriously concerned about this. I suppose the witnesses are not the ones to ask about this but the Government should seriously consider the implications this will have all around the county of Kerry.

It was said that they cannot have planning by default. I and anyone who is in politics for a long time know that if you are at something for more than seven years you cannot be touched. You cannot be taken to court or you cannot be made do anything. I ask the witnesses to seriously consider what I am saying.

The witnesses are talking about enforcement and the local authorities, and that they will manage this. The local authorities are stretched to their limit to do what they are doing and I do not think there will be any more officers delegated to them. If there were to be extra personnel, I would rather see them building more houses. I have been asking for that for the past number of days. Let the local authorities build more houses. There are so many empty houses around the place. Would the Government or the Department look at these as an option to secure long-term leases?

Do the witnesses think that putting these people out of business will get them to rent long-term to other tenants when they would not be able to get them out when they want to get them out and maybe not get paid when they should be, and all the other adverse things? If the witnesses think that is going to happen and they are going to achieve houses for long-term lease I think they need to look at that again. Would they have any comment to make about that?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank the Deputy. On his first comments about the contracted State accommodation in hotels in Kerry, at its heights in May 2023, 11% of hotel beds in Kerry were contracted to the State for accommodation provision for humanitarian purposes. That reduced the following year to 9% and is now at 5%.

With regard to the short-term letting and other hotel capacity in Kerry, the number of short-term letting beds in entire houses and apartments in Kerry is 16,600. At a maximum, they are occupied 27% of the time when we look at the 2024 data. There is an under-occupancy of about 70% in those properties. In some cases, in January it was 3% and February was 5%. If we go then to the further end of the year, November and December, the occupancy rates were just 5% and 6%, respectively. Those properties were vacant for quite a length of time throughout the year.

If we look at the number of hotel accommodations overall, there are 38,650 bed spaces in Kerry and these are really important with regard to that accommodation provision to support what is a very vibrant tourist industry in Kerry. We know that of those, 16,000 would have been used 27% of the time but the hotel accommodation is generally available all of the time. It is a better supply element. Of course, there-----

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry Deputy Healy-Rae but-----

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I have to say, Chairman, I seriously beg to differ with the figures that were mentioned here, which say that, most of the time, only 9% of our hotels involved with refugees and asylum seekers. That is totally incorrect. The figure was 36%. I do not know where Ms McGuire got her figures. I know someone gave them to her but that is not what the reality was down in Kerry when the Ukrainians and the other asylum seekers started coming there.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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In Youghal, we had nearly 70%. Seven zero. It was shocking but I appreciate the witnesses' remarks and they are very welcome here today. We now go to Deputy Rory Hearne.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Chair for bringing me in. I am also not a member of the committee but as the witnesses may be aware, housing and the housing crisis is my perspective and approach to this. I have been following the progression of this legislation, or should I say the lack of it. I am very concerned, at the outset, as to whether this will address the issue of homes, particularly family homes, being used as short-term lets. Do the witnesses see the process?

I have a couple of questions. First, it seems that the planning requirements only apply to towns of 10,000 or larger, leaving out - and I calculated it approximately - at least 1 million living in towns between 50 and 5,000. If that is the case, do the witnesses think it will significantly reduce the potential impact of these new measures on the use of homes by short-term lets? The witnesses might respond to that one first, please.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

I thank Deputy Hearne. The planning requirements will apply to all operators regardless of their location but what the Department of housing has said to us is that under the national planning statement guidance, properties within an area with a population of over 10,000 people will generally be precluded from the grant of planning permission. We understand that does not mean there would be certain circumstances where they would be granted. In the same case, if a property is in an area with a population of fewer than 10,000, there may also be circumstances were a local authority, in coming to its determination on a planning application, would decide it is not suitable for short-term letting.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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My interpretation is that it is essentially saying, if this is the case, that if you are in an area with population of under 10,000, you are being advised to grant planning.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

We have not seen the national planning statement yet. We understand that will be available by the end of the year or early next year but that will set out the details.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Let us say, theoretically, that it is the case. We will have towns in Dublin like Newcastle, Kilcock in Meath and these sorts of places to which, potentially, the restrictions will not be applied.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

Generally, the bulk of short-term let properties are potentially located in the larger urban areas. For example, if you look at the data on the 35,000 properties we have at the moment, 7,000 of those are in Dublin. Notwithstanding the case that there are towns outside of the 10,000 population figure that also have housing shortages, I am sure that is something the planning authorities will consider when they are coming to their determination on the application for grant of planning for change of use.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Okay. I am very concerned about that as being potentially limiting. The other issue is the planning requirements. If all of these short-term lets have to apply for planning, what sort of timeframe does Ms McGuire see all of those units being granted planning in, given the pressures in councils with regard to a lack of resources?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The Department of housing is looking at this matter, assessing the resource requirement for this and engaging with their local authorities on it.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Okay. Ms McGuire has no sense of what point. To me, it would seem like that is going to take a long time if all these operators have to apply for planning permission and get it.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

There is quite a spread across the country. A number of applications goes into each local authority. Each local authority would have to have the resources in place, we assume, to address those and respond to the level of applications they receive.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Has the Department done any estimation of how long it thinks that will take?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

That is a matter for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. The Department of tourism does not own policy in that area. The local authorities do not come under the remit of this Department.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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It seems like it would be a core aspect of achieving this and implementing it. I would have thought the Department would have looked at that and was estimating it was going to take this long and, with regard to the measures having an impact, this is when they will start impacting from.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

As I said, the Department of housing owns that element of this policy piece, which is the planning aspect. Our role is to implement the register. The register will be in place from next May.

At that time, if a person has not completed the planning application and is not in a position to confirm compliance with planning, they will not be able to register and avail of a registration number that will allow them to advertise the property online. If they have not completed that process, the system is designed so that they-----

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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It seems very unlikely that thousands will have that in place by then.

Ms Niamh McGuire:

They will not be able to access the registration system and the market.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Does the Department have any concern about how councils are essentially going to be certifying these units of accommodation and short-term lets in terms of fire safety standards? Given the pressure councils are under, does the Department have any concern that the deregulation of accommodation in back gardens, for example, is going to lead to a proliferation or an increase of substandard short-term let accommodation?

Ms Niamh McGuire:

The deregulation of accommodation in back gardens is a separate matter. This is in terms of the short-term letting tourism accommodation sector and those that will be required to register on the short-term letting register for next May and comply with the rules under the EU short-term rental regulation. I believe the exemptions for the accommodation in back gardens is an entirely separate matter because it is not for short-term letting purposes.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Okay. Does the Department have any concerns about the-----

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise, Deputy. Our time is up. We have actually gone ten minutes over time. We need to allow hand-over time for the room. Deputy Hearne is very welcome, by the way. He is always welcome to drop in.

I thank our witnesses for their time and their contributions today. It was a very informative discussion. We had over 86% attendance from members as well, which gives an indication of the level of interest. The people in the gallery are all most welcome.