William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I welcome all of the witnesses here today. We recently had a good briefing from their association. Most of the questions I would have asked have been asked by Deputy Fitzmaurice, Senator Paul Daly and everybody else. To go back to the history of it, I remember that, when I started off farming, I did not need anybody. I was able to fill out the forms when they came out, although there were very few to be filled out. I remember a form coming out because the weather had been so bad. I think we got £50 in old money or something like that. You filled out the form yourself and sent it back. At one stage, I had to get a peace commissioner to sign a form to say I was who I was and was farming where I was farming. We have gone well past that. As I see it, Teagasc and the Department of Agriculture before it were funded by the taxpayers of Ireland and carried out all of the duties farmers wanted at that time. More than anything else, it was an educational system to encourage farmers to go in for better grass management and all that sort of stuff because there were no handouts, good, bad or indifferent, at that time. Any schemes that came out were made so difficult for farmers to avail of that Teagasc was then set up, funded by the taxpayers of this country. On top of that, we had people like the ACA who decided they could provide a good service. Lads started going to these consultants, having heard this, that or the other.

Speaking with my former councillor's hat on - all of the other members were also councillors at some stage or another - what also played into the consultants' barrow was that planning laws were changed and continuously fought because the local authorities wanted studies and reports on this, that and the other. With all due respect to the gentlemen who are here today, all that cost money and led to their private profit. There was a business there and they homed in on it. I have absolutely no problem with that. However, I have had another problem all my life. When I started off in the council, it cost £500 to do a report. It is up to €5,000 for a report now and there can be 50 of the same report typed up by the same people sitting in Laois County Council attached to different planning applications but they cannot be used by anyone else. I am using this forum to say what I have always said, which is that it is an absolute disgrace. This is coming from joint thinking between the Department of agriculture and the planning authorities and it is totally wrong. They now want reports on the curlew and the hen harrier. You have to run around the field looking for hen harriers to make sure there are none there. What is going on is absolutely disgraceful but we will leave that where it is.

I am delighted that the association has spoken to Ted Massey and seems to be happy enough with what it got. I can see what the problem is here. I can see State funding being put into a partly State organisation. It has results it wants to keep to itself and does not want to give to the consultants. That is basically what the problem is. Where the problem lies is that if Willie Aird is doing business with any of the three gentlemen here, he will do business with nobody else. If somebody else is with Teagasc, he or she will be able to complete 100% of the nitrates form because he or she will have the data there to do it. ACA consultants have to send their clients to Teagasc to do it. Is that not correct? The ACA wants us to bring in representatives from the Department of agriculture and tell them that its consultants want the same information that is available to Teagasc. I get a text message about the nitrates or whatever it is but unless the consultants have all of that information, they cannot meet the deadlines that are in place. I accept all of that. It is something that has to be done. Regrettably and unfortunately, this is getting worse. You can also see the whole TB debacle and what that has cost the taxpayers of this country. We are now doubling and trebling the money going into that and putting in different conditions. We wait to see what will come out of that. That is another day's work but I am looking forward to being-----