Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 24 September 2025
Committee on Infrastructure and National Development Plan Delivery
Priorities and Provisions in the Review of the National Development Plan: Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation
2:00 am
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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The purpose of the meeting today is to discuss the priorities and provisions contained within the review of the national development plan 2026-35. I am pleased to welcome the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, Deputy Jack Chambers. The Minister is joined by his officials Kevin Meaney, principal officer in the infrastructure division, and Jenny Connors, principal officer in the expenditure policy division. For the benefit of newer members of the Oireachtas, the officials are not witnesses before the committee and would not speak in the normal course of events. They are here to support the Minister. If somebody wants to direct a question to the officials, the Minister will answer on their behalf because the officials are not witnesses.
Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
I remind members they will be afforded a six-minute slot for questions and answers, and a second slot will come around if people want to have a second opportunity. We have two hours. We have a hard end to this meeting at 6 p.m. because the Minister will be attending another committee meeting immediately thereafter.
I invite the Minister to make his opening statement.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair and members of the committee for the invitation to discuss the issues relevant to my Department, particularly the delivery of the national development plan review 2025. As the Chair stated, I am joined by Ms Connors and Mr. Meaney from the Department.
As members are aware, my Department operates at the centre of Government to try to deliver better public services, living standards and infrastructure. The remit of my Department is broad but can be summarised across three areas, namely, governance and oversight of public expenditure, building capacity across the civil and public service, and delivering effectively across our broad policy remit.
In relation to the infrastructure remit for my Department, the programme for Government set out a new dedicated infrastructure vision which was to be created within the renamed Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation. This has been delivered in the opening months of this Government. The new division has tasked stakeholders to advise Government on strategic project selection and prioritisation aligned with national priorities and making the maximum use of resources. The delivery of the national development plan review 2025 is the first step in this process to accelerate infrastructure delivery to meet our growing economic and social needs as a country.
The delivery of essential infrastructure is a key driver in ensuring our economy's competitiveness and resilience. In the past five years, there has been more than €65 billion invested in capital infrastructure projects across our country to improve people's lives through the national development plan, with total capital investment in 2025 estimated to be close to €17 billion by the end of the year. This represents the highest annual spend to date in this country. While this funding has delivered a significant amount of infrastructure, including roads, houses, schools, hospitals and so much more, all of which have improved the lives of people in Ireland, more prioritised investment is required to build on the ongoing success of the country.
However, as noted in the programme for Government, infrastructure deficits remain in some critical sectors and certain locations across the country, which require enhanced investment in infrastructure to develop our economy, deliver on our housing targets and boost our competitiveness.
The remit given to me as Minister of this Department was to set out a clear ambition to prioritise the delivery of transformative, growth-enhancing infrastructure over the next five years in critical sectors such as energy, water and wastewater, transport and health digitalisation. In July, we reaffirmed that commitment with a plan that would deliver this level of investment to safeguard Ireland’s future. Against a changing and uncertain global economic backdrop, this plan is necessary to safeguard our future prosperity. It will secure growth in our economy, protect jobs and enhance our competitiveness over the long term. I firmly believe that this national development plan is our route to long-term stability and prosperity.
The core priority areas that were protected and enhanced within the NDP are the necessary networks and building blocks on which all further development is dependent. This is the largest ever capital investment plan in the history of the State and will support the comprehensive upgrading of our water, energy and transport infrastructure. Investing in this critical infrastructure will allow us to: provide the 300,000 additional houses we urgently need by 2030; provide enhanced road and public transport infrastructure to connect our island and reduce travel times; provide greater opportunities to attract foreign direct investment and support our international competitiveness; and deliver more childcare facilities and school places, investment in children’s disability services and better healthcare for all.
In total, the NDP review in 2025 sets out planned total public investment of €275.4 billion over the next decade. This includes a mix of funding: utilising the release of one-off funds, including the Apple escrow fund; proceeds from the sale of bank shares; and broader State funds such as the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund. Of the €275.4 billion to be invested to 2035, €202.4 billion is Exchequer voted capital, with an initial €102.4 billion allocated by sector to Departments out to 2030 as part of Exchequer ceilings within the NDP. This reflects an increase of over €24 billion relative to the previous planned NDP ceilings for these years. Key allocations include: almost €36 billion for the Department of housing, accounting for more than one in three euro of all allocated Exchequer capital funding to 2030; almost one in four euro invested in transport infrastructure to deliver high-quality public transport, expand our road network and support active travel; over €12 billion provided to fund water services and wastewater services and improve water quality; and over €9.2 billion, or almost one in every ten euro of Exchequer capital funding, allocated to the Department of Health to increase capacity across our hospitals and primary care centres and drive health digitalisation.
In addition to the significant Exchequer allocations, non-voted funding sources will also enable Government to unlock an additional €10 billion in equity to be released out to 2030. There is €3.5 billion in equity funding from the Central Fund to be drawn down by the ESB and EirGrid to fund enhanced energy grid capacity to support the Government’s housing and competitiveness objectives. A sum of €2 billion in equity funding is being provided to Uisce Éireann in 2025 to enable the delivery of additional homes and a further €2.5 billion will be provided to Uisce Éireann for large-scale water infrastructure projects over the period to 2030. A sum of €2 billion will be released from the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund to support low-carbon transport investment and will provide a dedicated funding stream for the MetroLink project.
Following on from the publication of the review, Ministers were asked to develop sectoral investment plans that will provide specific details on the projects that can be delivered between now and 2030. Drafts of these plans will be submitted to my Department by late October. Their purpose will be to provide a clear pipeline of projects as well as certainty and predictability to the public, investors and the domestic and international construction sectors. This is key to nurturing the right conditions for investment and delivery. Following a review of consistency and deliverability by officials in my Department, sectoral plans will be published across November 2025.
The State needs to get back to delivering infrastructure at speed and at scale. To do this, the increased capital investment we have committed to needs to be matched with a coherent plan to remove the barriers to delivery. In July, I released my Department’s assessment of the factors delaying the delivery of critical infrastructure. Since then, my officials and the task force on accelerating infrastructure have been working on the development of actions and reforms that can be implemented to overcome these barriers. This work is approaching its conclusion. In the period following the budget, I intend to publish a final report and action plan that will detail the reforms that Government will implement to accelerate the provision of critical infrastructure.
This action plan will focus on a small number of high-impact, time-bound actions that are resolutely focused on shortening the time that critical infrastructure projects spend in development, planning and judicial processes before construction can begin. This will not be easy. A complex web of over-regulation of our economy, increasing judicial reviews and overlapping policy priorities, has driven a culture of excessive risk aversion and delay throughout approval systems for critical infrastructure. I hope to have the support of this committee and other critical stakeholders for the implementation of a robust action plan and reforms that clearly overcome these barriers. Political and public support will be necessary to take on inertia and entrenched interests so that we can provide the infrastructure our society needs for the well-being of our people.
The increased mandate provided to my Department provides a real opportunity to ensure the right building blocks are in place to support and enable the delivery of transformative critical infrastructure. This is necessary to sustain our economic growth and to support the delivery of housing and other important social infrastructure. A €275 billion national development plan review is the first step in this process, with specific commitments to key sectors and the most transformational projects. The next steps will be delivered in the coming months with the publication of the actions and reforms from the accelerating infrastructure task force and with Departments setting out their medium-term sectoral plans and priority projects.
I again thank committee members for their time. I also thank them for the broader work they have been doing in the past number of weeks and months on this area, which has been very helpful and informative. I look forward to today's engagement.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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Before I call the first speaker, I will put two comments to the Minister. He said he expected to have the specifics of details of projects from each Department by late October. He will have to look at them then. Will his Department issue that information or will each Department do its own? What is the format for when the public will get this information?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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It will be through November. Sectoral investment plans will be published through November. These will be sent to my Department. Obviously, they will then be agreed within Government and published publicly through the month of November.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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By each Minister or by-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Correct. It will be sectoral by each Minister, for example, transport. One of the critiques of infrastructure in the economy currently is that we have not had sectoral investment plans that give a clear pipeline to the construction sector, domestically and internationally, about what Ireland is developing over the long term and having credibility about that pipeline. That is why we have focused on each Department having sectoral investment plans, unlike what was published previously. These will be published through the month of November.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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My final question concerns a point of clarification. Obviously, a big investment in housing is required in Ireland. We will not argue about the ratio but, generally, two thirds of the houses in Ireland tend to be built by the private sector for people who are buying their own, although some of those houses go to local authorities. Is all the investment by the private sector in private housing on top of this €275 billion?
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister give us some estimate, somewhere along the line, of how much will come from the private sector in meeting the housing target that will be on top of the €275 billion?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a combination of the Exchequer element, which is in the national development plan, and other funding streams through the Department of Finance, the Housing Finance Agency and other elements that, again, provide further State subvention and support. Looking at the ratio of the State's involvement in housing, and the Minister, Deputy Browne's statement in recent days that 50% of what was delivered last year was by the State, the issue is ensuring we narrow the viability gap so that the market can complement the ambition of everyone in the Oireachtas for more social and affordable homes. The Cathaoirleach is right. It is an additional level of investment and hopefully-----
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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Somewhere along the line, will the Department of housing or public infrastructure put that figure out there? That is a very important investment.
I stress to everybody watching that the €275 billion being invested over that period is the equivalent of €55,000 for every man, woman and child in Ireland. It is their money, and taxpayers' money, so we want to see good infrastructure at the end of the process.
Speakers have indicated in the following sequence: Senators Ollie Crowe, Patricia Stephenson and Eileen Flynn and Deputies Louis O'Hara and Réada Cronin. That is the order I saw them in. We will put the names of the other two.
Ollie Crowe (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy Chambers, and his officials for joining us this afternoon. It is a hugely ambitious and bold plan, which is what we need. One of the major risks I see to its implementation is projects getting tied up in planning bottlenecks, as the Minister mentioned in his opening statement. I have seen that happen in small and large projects since I first got involved in politics. In other countries, such as the UK, there is a limit to legal objections if it is a major infrastructural project. I think that is something Ireland should strongly consider. What are the Minister's views on this?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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There are a few issues. The internal processes within the State are in many instances excessive and are causing delays. There are issues within the planning system and there is also the ability of any objector to delay things indefinitely. Some of the reforms are contained in the Planning and Development Act, which was advanced. However, in the context of the work we are doing, we hope to bring further legal reforms and reforms to the planning system. I am working with the Ministers, Deputies Jim O'Callaghan and James Browne, in respect of both those areas. I share the Senator's frustration. We have looked at international best practice, which will inform the actions we will take in the weeks following the budget.
Ollie Crowe (Fianna Fail)
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The construction sector also has capacity pressures, and there is international competition for skilled labour and expertise in that sector in particular. This is probably another major concern in terms of the ability to deliver the plan, although we are seeing positive trends in workforce growth in that sector. What are the Minister's views on how we can ensure the construction sector has sufficient resources to meet delivery?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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If you look at the European indices of productivity in the construction sector, Ireland is below average. When you engage with the construction sector, part of that is there is not the same pipeline of work, or certainty into the medium or long term so they can invest in particular sectors and develop that specialist expertise. There are still a lot of contractors who are competitive and who have expertise elsewhere. Part of the response here is to give a pipeline so they can develop and deepen that expertise across particular sectors. There is a lot of work in the Department of further and higher education on increasing the number of apprenticeships. The metrics there have improved in recent years. Modern methods of construction are also one area in housing when it comes to efficiency of delivery. If we want to attract the international contractors, they have to be clear on timelines and project intent. That is what we see in the area of best practice internationally. The sectoral investment plans will help to give that certainty on capability in the construction sector for the medium term.
Ollie Crowe (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister referenced €3.5 billion in equity funding for ESB and EirGrid to strengthen the energy grid. Will he confirm how much of this investment will directly support renewable integration and whether the Government has identified priority grid projects that will be fast-tracked?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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We are working with EirGrid on its wider investment plan. Part of that equity will be used by EirGrid. As a commercial State body, it will also borrow on the back of that equity injection. We are also working with it in the context of the wider plan. That is to plug the gap with some of the work happening on offshore renewable projects. We obviously have the grid capacity in the regions to see that enabled in the south, south west and elsewhere. EirGrid is updating its work in the context of the equity injection, which is giving it funding certainty on that. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is co-ordinating that piece of work.
Ollie Crowe (Fianna Fail)
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Very good. The Minister has spoken of political and public support being essential to take on inertia and entrenched interests. What role does he see for this committee in overseeing delivery of the NDP and ensuring the barriers identified by his Department are dismantled?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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All of us in the Oireachtas, regardless of party or politics, have a collective frustration about delivery. We have a particular interest, whether it is in housing or infrastructure. Ultimately it will affect everyone in Ireland if delivery does not quicken. If we do not accelerate, it will affect our growth and jobs for the future. It is in all of our interests, when the actions are published, that we have important oversight, but also that all elements of the State and the system are working to achieve the objectives. That is the central work I deal with in Government. The committee also has an important role in the area of accountability, where the Government and I are held to account. There are also different elements of the State building that and making the case for infrastructure. We know in the Accelerating Infrastructure report we published that there is an issue. The public sees the benefits of infrastructure, but public acceptance and awareness of the consequences of poor infrastructure nationally is maybe not as appreciated as it should be. People hear about it in parts, but they do not necessarily see the long-term impacts of us not accelerating delivery. We have a broader objective within the political system to make the case for this and for the greater good and the delivery of infrastructure superseding some of the narrow interests that sometimes seek to block it.
Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I have a question about procurement. I know we have had a few high-profile examples, such as the national children's hospital, of where procurement seems to have fallen between the cracks or has not worked effectively. I would be interested to hear of the reforms the Minister suggests putting in place in the area of procurement so that we avoid the pitfalls of the past or present and ensure better value for money. I do not see any particular procurement coming out from the NDP. I think that is the piece we are maybe missing to avoid this kind of pay-as-you-go approach we have seen in the past. That is where we got to with BAM, where it could put in the change orders in, that would be delivered and the budget would just go up and up. Linked to that, how is the Department responsible for tendering what guidance will be provided on creating competition for suppliers, incentivising value for money and fostering a competitive dialogue with suppliers? It is my understanding that when it came to the national children's hospital, there was not really a proper design in place and an exemption was provided because it was considered a critical capital build project. How can we avoid that in the future? That is my first question.
I have another question on the role of the auditing team. I know we do audits after the fact, but is there a process whereby we could have auditors in place as projects are ongoing for greater internal support around project management? That could be an effective way to have better control of ongoing infrastructure projects.
We had a briefing this morning from ICTU about the right to collective bargaining. Something came up about how private sector companies in Ireland that are responsible for running public contracts are in some instances not allowing people to be in unions. Would the Department be willing to make a commitment that anyone implementing a public contract ensures unionisation and the right to collective bargaining?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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On the issue of procurement, the report we published in July references challenges with procurement. In fact, there are some barriers to people offering themselves up in that competitive tension, which is required. Some of the reforms we will introduce will relate to procurement and how to have a more collaborative model to attract more domestic activity and some of the international contractors who have not been engaged before. The committee will see some of the reforms advance from that. We have the capital works management framework, which sets out the contractual provisions, guidance material and technical procedures regarding all aspects of the project pipeline. There are extensive governance arrangements through each stage of the project pipeline as it is commenced in the area of design right the way through. That is covered in the infrastructure guidelines as well. We have significant internal and external ongoing oversight projects as they advance. Nevertheless, the Senator is right. Some of the lessons from the children's hospital were that not everything had been captured in the initial phase, and that was a contributory factor to how the costs went out of control. Adjustment to this in the interests of competition would be important and that is something we are considering in the context of the reforms we will advance.
Collective bargaining is a policy responsibility of the Department of enterprise. Obviously, the Government's position on collective bargaining is informed by what we do across the economy. I can come back with a more detailed response on that.
Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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It would be worth considering if we are having a comprehensive approach.
Currently, collective bargaining is not a right in Ireland. Civil servants, teachers, nurses and others all have that right because it is built into their systems. If private sector companies are delivering public sector contracts and that right is not in place for their employees, then we have a two-tier system. I recognise that this sits with the Department of enterprise, but when it comes to public procurement-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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There is an EU directive being-----
Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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The minimum wage directive.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. A policy or piece of legislation on that is being evolved at present.
Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I will not hold the Minister to that, because I know it is not his Department-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the question, though.
Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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-----but how it overlaps in the context of the holistic approach is really important.
Eileen Flynn (Independent)
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The Minister thanked us for the opportunity to discuss the delivery of the national development plan review, but this committee should have been consulted before the Government finished its work on the largest infrastructure plan in history. He acknowledged our role but announced €2.75 billion in spending without any meaningful parliamentary scrutiny. How can the Minister claim that he respects this committee while bypassing our oversight function when it matters? I would like to hear from him on that.
The Government promised 300,000 new homes by 2030, but where are the specific targets for social housing for working families? How many of these 300,000 homes will be genuinely affordable for ordinary workers? What is the breakdown between social and affordable housing and private housing?
As everybody here knows, we continue to fail when it comes to Traveller-specific accommodation. Local authorities are still failing to meet their accommodation targets with both specific funding and targets that include Traveller families. There is €35 million allocated in this regard.
With 22% of Ireland's population having disabilities, how will the Minister ensure that infrastructure projects include proper accessibility designs rather than what we are seeing now? Those are my four questions. If the Minister could answer, I would be very grateful.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Flynn. I appreciate her four questions. On the first, we had an extensive public consultation for everybody, both Members of the Oireachtas and the public, on the priorities we set out in the national development plan. What the Government was clear on was that it wanted to do this quickly in order to try to unlock investment in key areas. That was important. If you look at what we decided to do, we set out in the programme for Government clear areas of priority, including housing, which, I think, is a priority shared by the Government and the Opposition, and transport. We are spending €1 in every €3 on housing and nearly €1 in every €4 on transport infrastructure. We are also investing in energy and water infrastructure. We were clear in how we were going to prioritise matters relating to the national development plan. We engaged in a public consultation process on it. We have also been following the work of the committee.
Ultimately, the allocation for the national development plan is one element. Additionality alone is not going to move the dial, however. That is why the work the committee has done and what we are trying to do around reform is the most critical aspect. This is about ensuring that the plans and the pipeline we want to publish in the coming weeks along with the sectoral investment plans can move a lot quicker. There are too many instances where roads are taking ten to 15 years to complete and wastewater treatment plants are taking seven or eight years to build. That is too long for many communities. We have set out the sectoral allocations. The sectoral investment plans which underpin those will be a key part of the next step. As I said, there was an opportunity for everyone, including Members of the Oireachtas, to make submissions.
On the 300,000 homes, we said in what we published that the target is 15,000 affordable homes and 12,000 social homes. The Minister, Deputy Browne, with a big uplift in capital investment, will bring forward out a new housing plan that will set out the detail around that. He is working extensively on that plan and has already brought through a number of important reforms.
Regarding Traveller accommodation, I acknowledge the points the Senator made. If you look at the year-on-year increase from 2024 to 2025, it went from €28 million to €30 million. We are working through the budget for next year. The Senator referred to local authorities not delivering on their plans. They should be delivering on them. I acknowledge Senator's advocacy in respect of this matter and the work she continues to do on it. That is something the Minister, Deputy Browne, will be working on in the context of budget 2026. If you look at the year-on-year increase, you will see that it went up over the past two years. We are still in the middle of the budget negotiations for next year.
On the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, one thing we have been really clear about is the need for a significant uplift in expenditure relating to disability. The Minister, Deputy Foley, has much greater headroom than in previous years. She will be setting out a specific plan in respect of the disability sector. There having been many reforms brought through in recent years on accessibility requirements and building regulations, which have much improved things compared with what was there in the past. The Senator is right; it is an important objective. Many of the newer builds are much more accessible. That speaks to the regulations, which have improved.
With regard to the disability sector specifically, there will be significantly more capital there over the next five years than was the case in the previous five. This will provide for specific interventions, where required, by section 39 organisations or, indeed, the wider disability sector.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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The next speaker is Deputy O'Hara. As I said, it is a six-minute slot for questions and answers. There will be a second round of questions if people want it.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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On regional development, there was a brief section in the review on the need for regional balance. Obviously, there are no specific details yet. In the west of Ireland, there are many important projects, including the western rail corridor, the Galway ring road, the double-tracking of the Athenry to Galway route and the Gluas project, that need to be progressed. Our current infrastructure in the west is totally inadequate. I am concerned that will the lion's share of funding under this plan will be directed to other parts of the State while the west and north west will continue to suffer. I am sure the Minister is aware our region is among the most underdeveloped regions in the EU in terms of infrastructure. What is he going to do to ensure funding is distributed fairly among the regions? Has an instruction been issued to the various Departments to ensure regional balance in their plans? Will the Minister be asking for plans to be revised if they are not regionally balanced?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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For wider compliance with the national planning framework, there is a need for that to align with the sectoral investment plans. As someone born in his county with parents from Mayo - and I know there is lots of Galway representation, including Senator Crowe on this committee - I am very familiar with all the different transport projects he referenced in the context of Galway. The Deputy is right. The infrastructure deficit is clear in the west, the north west and along the Atlantic corridor. We need to correct that. Part of the sectoral investment plan for transport infrastructure, for example, will absolutely be focused on that. For more housing and business development in our regions, there has to be an uplift in that infrastructure investment. That is a clear part of the national planning framework. The wider alignment of the sectoral investment plans will be to align with what we have set out in the planning framework, which, obviously, is to have balanced regional development and housing and infrastructure where there are greater deficits. That will be worked out at departmental level.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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We will wait and see. On the process going forward, the Minister mentioned that the drafts of those plans will be submitted by late October and announced in November. Does this mean that his Department might adjust some of the plans that are submitted? Will there have to be business cases submitted for each project?
The reason I ask is that the western rail corridor, for example, is contained in the rail review. An extensive business study has been completed on that and it has been talked about for a very long time. Are more reports or business cases required in advance of funding being allocated for any projects?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, three major sectors, namely transport, energy and water, for which there is a big proportion of investment but also that impact a lot other areas of the economy and how they are aligned, go under the Cabinet committee on infrastructure as well so there is co-ordination across those areas and it is properly done. Obviously, it is a Government decision and there will be sectoral investment plans drafted by Departments. They will be assessed by my Department and there is a deliberative process then within Government on the final decisions. We have real ambition for regional development, as a Government, and that is a clear part of what we are trying to do in the context of the sectoral investment plans. There is departmental engagement. Some of it will go to the Cabinet committee. Then we will publish decisions as they are agreed.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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There is a focus on water services in the plan, which is welcome. Again, going back to my constituency we have a lot of housing development that is being held up or stalled because so many towns and villages do not have adequate capacity in terms of wastewater and so on. On 70% of the lands in County Galway that are currently zoned for housing development we cannot have new homes built there because of the lack of vital infrastructure. I will raise a specific case. Three years ago, investment was announced for two villages, namely Craughwell and Clarinbridge, but there has not been any movement since. I understand the Department of housing recently wrote to Galway County Council asking if the council can meet its required 15% co-funding contribution towards the projects and that is estimated to be about €5 million, which is money Galway County Council does not have. This is another barrier to delivery, even if there is significant national funding available. Is the Minister aware of this co-funding contribution requirement on the local authorities? Has he engaged with the Department of housing on this matter?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to get further detail on that particular project. We heard very clearly the issue of the funding gap Irish Water has had which has impeded the progress of some of the projects. That is why the programme from 2026 to 2030 has a €12 billion investment in water infrastructure. I think there is significant confidence now in Uisce Éireann's ability to give momentum to a lot of these projects that were held up for a series of years. We can come back on the detail relating to that project. We want to make them happen in the interests of building housing. That is what we need to do. There are too many parts of towns and villages throughout Ireland where, as the Deputy said, there is zoned land with maybe other services and the wastewater treatment plant is holding up the whole thing.
Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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My question specifically relates to that co-funding contribution requirement of the local authorities.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I would have to check that specifically. Ultimately, I want to see these projects start and be delivered. That is the objective. I think the uplift in capital will achieve that. I will have to check the specific point about co-funding and will come back to the committee on it.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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We will ask the Minister to come back to the committee with a response, by correspondence.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for his opening statement. Before he came in I did mention I was disappointed we did not have it last night. I had a three-hour committee meeting this morning and another meeting as well so I only got a chance to speed-read his presentation and not do as much research as I would normally liked to have done.
The Minister mentioned this is the largest every capital investment plan in the history of State and of course our population has increased by so much. The Minister spoke about providing the 300,000 additional homes we so urgently need and also the need for attracting foreign direct investment. How will we do the two things at the same time? The Department's own Secretary General mentioned his concern about the significant demand for electricity. At one of the committee meetings I attended earlier representatives from the CRU were in attendance and we discussed the increasing cost, demands on the grid, how the grid is not up to standard and how data centres are taking so much of the electricity. We are having power cuts now in north Kildare. Straffan has had continuous power cuts during the past two years. Kilcock has had them as well and Leixlip too, I think. There was a power cut in Maynooth last week.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Leixlip ran out of water.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Unless we put a moratorium on data centres I do not know how we will be able to provide these 300,000 additional homes, or even more of them. How many homes will we deliver this year?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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There are different projections from different Departments and agencies relating to the outturn. Completions were up 35% in quarter 2 from the same period in 2024. The total outturn is something we will have a better sense of in quarter 3 because there were significant commencements last year that did not convert to completions last year-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----but we are seeing the uptick this year. Different bodies and agencies are giving different projections. We will have a better sense of the final outturn in quarter 3 and we have different forecasts.
There are constraints on the grid but the Government's position is that the reason we are providing direct equity to ESB and EirGrid is to create much greater abundance and plan for the future so we can attract digital infrastructure for the future. A key part of our future economic growth will be ensuring we decarbonise our economy with renewable energy and we are making that happen and there is ambition to do that. It will also be about having the digital infrastructure in place. Investment, globally, is centered on AI and on digital infrastructure more generally and we have to be part of that if we want to keep the tech ecosystem in Ireland, the jobs and the investment. That is a balancing act between managing the constraints of today but ultimately planning for further investment in digital infrastructure. The binary argument for and against data centres in recent years has not helped the Irish proposition in the context of the need, in my view, to have digital infrastructure in place. The Deputy is right that we have to manage the balancing demands and that is why-----
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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We do because, particularly with AI, there has just been an explosion in demand.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a higher level of energy intensity relating to AI when it comes to data centres and digital infrastructure. This is where investment is moving and we have to take a portion of it in order to have jobs and growth for the future but obviously, balancing that against the other needs in our communities. As the Deputy referenced, housing is the number one priority so it is about ensuring ESB and EirGrid have sufficient headroom to connect the homes we want to build. It is also about ensuring investors who are building digital infrastructure have a line of sight of what is possible, so the work that is happening with CRU and others is how we make Ireland a place they can invest in again, while balancing the other needs.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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In Ireland it is first come, first served for connections. I know that in the Netherlands they are making a plan for housing. Has the Minister looked at that plan at all so as to make sure there is a certain amount of energy kept to make sure we will have those connections ready for the housing we so desperately need? We have more than 5,000 children now homeless and I am sure it affects every TD.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. There is ongoing engagement with CRU at Cabinet committee level and more generally work is ongoing around PR6. There are different policies that underpin that in the context of connections. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is the direct line Minister for CRU.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister mentioned the national development plan review and where the funding is coming from. How much of the funding will come from the Apple escrow fund?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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The total Apple escrow fund of nearly €14 billion is being captured in the plans we are setting out from 2026 to 2030. It is €14.1 billion, to be exact.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Some funds from the climate and nature fund are being diverted into this. I note the Minister has said it will go towards public transport.
How will that affect our climate goals?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Low carbon transportation is important and one of the major sectors relevant to reducing our carbon emissions is the transport sector. Investing in low carbon transportation through the Infrastructure,Climate and Nature Fund will help to reduce overall emissions. That is one of our clear priorities.
Some €500 million is also going to the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment to fund projects that relate to climate mitigation and renewable energy development and €650 million to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage for projects that will support improvements to water quality. We have split the €3.15 billion in three, with €2 billion going to transport, €500 million to the Department of climate and €650 million going to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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The task force for accelerating infrastructure is preparing a report. Is that correct?
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister chairs it.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. It has involved positive collaborative work. There are six external members who are ambitious about driving reform, as is the team in the infrastructure division. The work we produce will show a real reduction in timelines and that is the measure. It is how we-----
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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If the committee has questions about it, we can invite the Minister.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we will be publishing a report and I look forward to and will be happy to have further engagement on it then.
Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his opening statement. The national development plan is probably one of the most important pieces of work we will do over the next few years. It is vital for our economy, country and society in general. It is important we get it right. Will the Minister outline how much is being invested in water and energy infrastructure, nationally and in the midlands? In many areas, including County Offaly, a lack of capacity in the water services and pressure on the energy grid are holding back delivery of housing and making it harder for businesses to expand. Housing is the most important part of the development plan. It means a lot to the people living here - those on the housing waiting lists and young people who want to buy and get onto the property ladder - and it is one of the issues that feeds into whether we attract more foreign direct investment. As part of the overall housing equation, we must develop our water and power infrastructure. That is why these investments are so important.
The national development plan outlines significant commitments to health digitisation and capacity increases. Given the recent cost overruns and delivery delays in the health sector, how will the Minister's Department ensure value for money and accountability in health-related capital spending?
The Minister committed to stimulating infrastructure delivery. What specific measure in his forthcoming action plan will cut down on average timelines for planning and judicial processes? He has already spoken about cutting timelines but will he respond on the judicial processes and how his measures will progress those reforms?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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On Deputy McCormack's first question, €12 billion will be invested in the next five years in water and wastewater infrastructure. Uisce Éireann will set out with the Department of housing the specific sectoral dimensions of that, which will give the Deputy a more informed view at a county level. I do not have that information in front of me. It is to fully fund water infrastructure for the next five years. In recent months and years there has been uncertainty and an annualised nature of water funding. We are protecting the allocation we are giving and it is now about delivery. Irish Water has the head room and capital to drive delivery and ensure we get the water and wastewater infrastructure in place to underpin the homes and get them built and then get the investment connected to that.
Around energy, we are investing more than €3 billion between ESB Networks and EirGrid. They have significant investment programmes in their own rights, as they are commercial State bodies. The equity injection will allow them to borrow. Both ESB Networks and EirGrid have published investment plans and we can come back to the Deputy with specific information on those. The energy investment is much greater than the equity injection we have put in place, but it was important as it will allow them to borrow and give them seed capital for further energy infrastructure development.
On health, many safeguards have been put in place since the children's hospital overruns and reforms took place in recent years. There have been extensive reviews of the matter. Health digitisation is a clear part of the work we have done with the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill. She is ambitious about making e-health happen once and for all. We need to digitise our health system. There are big opportunities in the use of data, such as better person information for patients, which will ultimately bring much greater efficiencies to our health system and the use of the €24 billion which is the current annual expenditure on health. Data and digitisation of the health system are critical to planning our health system for the future. It will probably be the single most important investment from a health perspective, given the opportunities it represents. AI and data in healthcare are limitless. E-health will be critical in the more than €9 billion being invested in overall health infrastructure.
The way we are developing the specific actions - the Deputy may to read the report we published in July - is that from each of the areas in which we identified barriers, we want to have clear actions and reforms that emerge, including reforms within the State. Some of that relates to legal reform, some the infrastructure guidelines. There is a range of areas, which we will set out in the coming weeks, but they will be informed by the report we published in July.
Our metric is to take a project that might take up to 15 years now in the worst case scenario and see how we can absolutely say what time we have cut out and how we will deliver it more quickly. That is how we are approaching this. We are using Gantt charts to track the projects from initial phase to completion and looking at how we can cut the different elements that are excessive or taking too long. We have done a lot of work on that. We will publish the reforms in the autumn and work to make them happen.
Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Cathaoirleach, can I come in?
The development plans are out for revision at the moment. In the case of Offaly County Council, a lot of work is being done on that in the background to try to have it ready for November. However, from speaking to other colleagues, it does not seem to be the case everywhere. It seems to be being pushed out further. This is vital for us to be able to build houses going forward so we need to put pressure on local authorities to make sure it happens as quickly as possible.
I would be shot by my constituents if I did not bring up the N52 link road when I am talking about infrastructure.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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We are under time pressure.
Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It needs to be part of the planning.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I have been in Tullamore on a number of occasions. Between the National Ploughing Championships and the Tullamore Show, it has been a busy county and a lot of people have been on the N52 in recent weeks. We have committed to many regional roads. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is working on updating Transport Infrastructure Ireland's roads programme for the next five years. The N52 is critical to connecting the business and investment opportunities for Tullamore and the wider Offaly region to the M6. The issues and concerns in the local community in Durrow and the road safety concerns related to the school are well documented. I am familiar with the matter. It should happen. It will be covered in the wider engagement the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has with TII. He will be able to set out the sectoral investment plans for all road and public transport projects when that work has been completed.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I welcome my parents who have popped in. It is timely. They were due a visit and were passing by. It is the first time I have brought my parents to work.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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On my behalf as Chairman and, no doubt, on behalf of the members and the Minister, I join in the welcome to them here today.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for joining us. Obviously, the reason he is here is that infrastructure is the key national focus. We can talk about housing and, fundamentally, housing is where we want to get to, but ultimately we need the underlying infrastructure behind that. That is why this new committee has been set up. Obviously, that is why the Minister joined us previously, and why he is joining us again. We will probably continue to see the Minister subsequently.
Something I talked of off-camera is what we want to get out of this committee and how we can best work with the Minister and have a timely set of actions and tasks and, ultimately, timelines on how we deliver them. I noted some of that was alluded to in the Minister's opening statement. I have a set of questions based on the Minister's statement so that I can get a bit of extra background, and then I can use that afterwards.
On the infrastructure division that the Minister alluded to, how many people are on that team?
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What is the primary skill set of that team?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a range. We have seconded people from Irish Water, TII and An Bord Pleanála into the division. We have a mix of people involved. We have integrated a procurement division so there are a lot of people who have expertise in the capital works management framework, for example. There is extensive economic background from people who are economists and have previous experience in that regard. Complementing that are the accelerating infrastructure task force members: Sean O’Driscoll, Eamon Booth, Michele Connolly, Imelda Mannion, Mary Hughes and one other.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Feargal O'Rourke, yes. The Deputy put me on the spot.
They have been really important. As part of the infrastructure task force, they have gone into sub-groups with different parts of the division relating to some of the actions that we are taking forward in the report. There is an extensive skill mix, I suppose, from procurement, seconding the experts in from the key State bodies that are delivering infrastructure.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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How would they line up-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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We can send an organisational chart about the mix of people in the Department who are working there.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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If the Minister could, that would be great. How will they be lining up directly with local authorities? Ultimately, local authorities will be where a lot of this work gets done and where the funding is put down to.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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We have Michael Walsh, who is the former chief executive of Waterford county council. He is on our infrastructure task force as an ex officio member. He was 40 years-plus in the local authority system, as someone who started there and ended up as a CEO. That is important.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is he having regular meetings with the CEOs of the councils?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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What we are doing is taking the wider feedback economy-wide and providing direction from Government about the reforms that we believe should happen.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is more about reforms than implementation as yet.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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It is reforms and implementation. For example, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, Irish Water or others are State bodies that are facing significant barriers to infrastructure delivery. We have met with some of the local authorities. I met with many of them in the period prior to the summer and through the summer relating to the barriers that they face around implementing infrastructure in the economy at a local level and I have had an open door to getting their feedback about what impediments or barriers they face around delivering housing or infrastructure. I have met with many of them and-----
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Ultimately, that is where we are hoping to put the reforms in place in the coming months. We will be putting them in place based on that feedback.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not necessarily. Some of it is local authority but, for example, a wastewater treatment plant-----
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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No, I am talking about the wider spectrum. That sort of information the Minister has accumulated is where he will be focusing in across the board, not only in local authorities. The Minister will be putting those reforms in place. That is the information that will be coming out in the coming months.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What are the accelerating infrastructure actions? What exactly will they be-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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We will publish them when we have them agreed.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Yes, but even on a high level.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know if the Deputy has read the report from July.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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If you read the report from July, we have identified the barriers that are there. The actions that will emerge from it essentially address the barriers that have been brought through the stakeholder engagement, the public consultation and the feedback and informed by international best practice. They will be agreed by Government but it will relate to amendment of guidelines, possible legislative intervention, reforms of different processes which are in place which do not yield timely delivery and rebalancing of regulation in the economy. There is a range of actions. What we will not do, though, is have hundreds of different actions which take five-to-ten years-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----which sometimes marks other reports. We want to take time-bound actions which will yield real reform in areas we can control. To answer the Deputy's question, we will publish them in the weeks following the budget.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Lastly, there is a lot about physical infrastructure in the delivery of housing. Something that is often missed, and a lot of us have seen at local authority level, is that we can build houses but we do not necessarily build communities in the way we should. How do we ensure we get the funding behind these 300,000 houses in order that we get the things that people need, such as having enough parks and playgrounds? How do we make sure all that funding is put in place? We need that infrastructure just as much as we need wastewater and drinking water.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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In the national development plan review,we prioritised water, energy, transport, housing and health digitalisation, but we have also given headroom to other Departments for important social infrastructure. For example, it could be the Department of sport on sports capital and ensuring we have enough sporting infrastructure. We have the Department of children and disability working in the context of childcare facilities as well. A lot of that is done by the private sector but there is still headroom to do more in that area. Social infrastructure is important. It comes back to good planning and the work the local authorities do in the delivery of housing and that they are agreeing to plans and permissions which ultimately build better communities.
If you look at education, for example, education funding has gone from a baseline of €1 billion a year to €1.5 billion and it is €7.5 billion over the next five years. Obviously, building schools in the communities that have increased housing supply is essential to having that rounded coherent community that we want to see developed - the education budget is a good example of that - so that there is an ability to respond to the demographic demands. We particularly concentrate in areas where there is increased housing supply.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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That complements the focus on the critical economic growth-enabling infrastructure, but we have matched that with the other areas which are important to communities and people. School places, childcare facilities, sports facilities and green spaces, as the Deputy said, are important as well.
I acknowledge that Deputy Neville's parents and family are here. I forgot to do that at the start. The Deputy started with the questions so quickly I got distracted.
Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have limited time too. I thank the Minister.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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A couple of people have not spoken yet. I will call Senator Byrne, who was here first.
Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for coming before us. He was in the Seanad earlier dealing with the same subject. I do not propose to repeat myself too much. I want to drill down to a number of quick questions.
One of the big issues we have teased out here is the notion of perhaps taking some of the large State infrastructure projects that are of critical national importance out of the usual planning process, consent process and infrastructure delivery process, and instead designating them as having some sort of strategic importance whereby they go through a new separate fast track scheme. Is that a concept that the Department and the infrastructure task force is looking at or are they looking at it from the perspective of speeding up through the existing mechanisms for approvals, consent and planning?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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We are examining that as an option. That is what we want to do. It is certainly an option. We will have to make decisions around that when we publish our report.
Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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My second question relates to the issues that came from the judicial review of the Galway ring road project, where a motorway around Galway was granted planning permission by An Coimisiún Pleanála and that permission was then overturned on the basis that it did not take into account climate mitigation measures under the climate action Act, specifically in section 15. Is the Minister’s Department reviewing that to reconcile the balance between our obligations under the climate Act and the need to deliver key infrastructure projects, like motorways, or does he envisage that no changes will be made in that regard?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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There will have to be a wider Government discussion about that. We have seen how a similar issue emerged with permission relating to the A5 in the North. There has not been extensive discussion around that in the Government. If a growing risk emerges where we cannot deliver infrastructure that everyone agrees on because of a particular piece of legislation, it will have to be assessed. Ultimately, my objective is to drive delivery of critical infrastructure, which encompasses energy policy, transport policy, roads and public transport as well as new homes. There would have to be a discussion on that. Obviously, there is a lot of jurisprudence on it, but if it emerges as a serious risk, it would have to be assessed.
Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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On a separate point, one of the concerns being highlighted to me regarding infrastructure development, particularly by Wexford County Council, is that for projects that require a foreshore license, planning permission must be applied for first and then a person must correspondingly apply for a foreshore license afterwards. Both applications cannot be lodged concurrently with a condition put in whereby although planning is granted, the project cannot proceed until the foreshore license is obtained and vice versa. Is that something the Minister has considered? Does that form part of his recommendations?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. That is a key issue and barrier identified where things do not move in parallel and time is wasted because of the nature of how the process is sequenced. That is something being considered in the context of reform to maximise parallel processes in order that we do not waste time. It is under discussion and consideration around the reforms that will take place.
Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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On a more local issue, I recently visited Christian Brothers Secondary School, New Ross, which has approximately 400 boys and girls attending it. The building the school is in has been there since 1926. While there have been some extensions to classrooms, and four new classrooms are going to be delivered imminently, one of the issues the school highlighted to me is that it is the only secondary school in County Wexford that does not have any access to a PE hall. Currently, the Department of education does not operate a funding scheme to deliver PE halls because investment is being prioritised for the delivery and refurbishment of classrooms. While I can understand that in areas where there is significant demand for extra classrooms, will the Department consider operating a small scheme whereby schools that have no access to existing PE halls will have access through a designated capital part as part of the national development plan?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I know this is an issue. There is a reference to it in the programme for Government as well. I know the Minister, Deputy McEntee, is working on this. From an education perspective, the most immediate and pressing issue when we have shortages or issues, whether they be in special education or in areas where particular demands or acute pressures are emerging, is that we provide the classrooms and school places. It will be a matter for the wider sectoral plan in education to see whether there is any projected headroom available within the total allocation to advance such a policy. That is something the Minister, Deputy McEntee, will have to work on in the context of the parameters that are there. There has been a 50% uplift in education funding in the new national development plan cycle.
To put on my former hat as Minister of State with responsibility for sport, we can do more between education and sports facilities through the funding stream of the sports capital programme to build a more municipal focus in the delivery of sporting infrastructure. There are a lot of good examples of it in certain areas where the schools are using a facility during the day and the clubs get to use it at night. There is shared use. That is ultimately the best way to develop it. In some instances, it is the PE hall specifically that is in demand. It is a matter for the Minister for education, Deputy McEntee, to see what is possible with the pressures that she has around managing the building programme and whether there is headroom to make such a move. There is a reference to it in the programme for Government, however. There is a timing issue the Minister will have to consider. There is still ongoing pressure in delivering the actual classrooms and everything else the Department does.
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister and his officials for joining us today. I certainly echo the sentiments of Deputy McCormack in fully supporting the N52. I have made the case that we need to open up the midlands from north to south. We have built several motorways from east to west and we have the M50, but we have nothing through the spine of the country. Realistically at this stage, from the N7 to north Longford, we should be opening up that whole area. If I am in Portlaoise or Tullamore today and I want to go 60 km east or west, I can do so in half an hour. If I want to go north or south, however, it takes double the time. We need to open that up.
I wish to give the Minister a couple of examples that have landed on my desk in recent weeks. One such example is a school that has been in discussions for additional SNA capacity for ten years. PE halls are being transformed into classrooms while they wait. There are economic implications with this as the cost has increased from approximately €1 million ten years ago to multiples of that figure today. The school is awaiting immediate action and decision-making, but they are not forthcoming. There is growing frustration among principals and boards of management when it comes to decisions on the likes of classrooms.
The same applies to the likes of a library. Realistically, from the first day to the last day of the project, when membership card holders can actually go through the door, we are talking about a decade. It is simply just too long.
With regard to housing, in Edenderry, 2029 is being mooted as the delivery date for additional capacity in the waste system. The options given to private developers in the area are simply unviable. It is creating an element of frustration, whether that be for the principal, the county council or the housing developer.
A lot of the talk we have focuses on time and financial efficiency in how we want to deliver these projects in the most appropriate timeframe for the best value for money. The question I have, however, is how we are going to instil confidence and change the culture from a can't-do attitude to a can-do one. There are constant deliberations, whether they be with Uisce Éireann or the local authorities. At this stage, it is perfection getting in the way of progress.
I had a situation recently where there was a development of ten houses that were left idle for six months while there was a debate going on between the developer and the local authority about the wording and interpretation of it. Meanwhile, the approved housing body and the county council housing section are beating developers’ doors down to get people into them. This is a cultural issue as much as it is a time and financial one. We can draft all the policy documents in the world but unless we have a strategy and an approach to change the culture, I am concerned we are not going to regain that confidence from the likes of the principal, the community development group and so forth. Has that been discussed? I appreciate we are now one year into a potential – hopefully – full Dáil term. The Minister’s task force has been in place since April trying to accelerate this. Have there been any discussions around culture and how we can change that?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Clendennen. I note his interest in the N52 as well. There are three different examples there.
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I can give the Minister ten more if he wants.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I mean some of them are different. The Department of education is efficient at delivery when it decides a particular project will happen. When it does that, it typically moves quickly and it happens relatively quickly. The issue is the pipeline is extensive and it cannot do everything every year so there is a natural delay. It is about managing that sequentially because there have to be parameters in which it operates. To the Deputy's wider point, he has referenced the library and the issues with housing, with people going over and back for months. It is clear in the report that the whole issue of risk aversion and things taking too long is an identified issue, along with some of the timelines associated with that. That is why the housing activation office will play a critical role to try to cut through timelines and endless process getting in the way of people moving in or decisions being made, whether it is social and affordable homes or getting the utilities around the table to ensure private development can happen, which I know is frustrating many in the economy.
That work is happening and there is the cultural issue as well. It also means we have to support people in taking risks and rebalancing risk.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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That is important too. We have committees here that will rightly scrutinise everything but if we are proactive and delivery is the number one priority, that means we have to rebalance risk in how we make decisions and how quickly people make decisions. We have to support people in doing that in key positions of influence. Otherwise, we will have continued endless process which ultimately will not achieve quicker timelines. That is an element of it. However, it is clear in the report we published that risk aversion is an issue. The housing activation office will be important for timelines. We have now fully funded the key utilities. Having key performance indicators and ensuring the shareholder letter of expectation that is issued to respective commercial State bodies that they must perform with funding is important as well. Obviously, as the shareholder, we need to demand that. To the Deputy's point, this is discussed and has been discussed. It is referenced in the report as well.
Gillian Toole (Meath East, Independent)
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I thank the Minister and his team. I have parachuted in here. I am normally at the disability matters committee but I have an interest in this. I have four questions and it would be great if they could be answered or followed up on later. The first is about the use of data and analysis. Will the use of cost-benefit and demographic data analyses, particularly for public transport projects, be compulsory in the NDP process? One example is the much-lauded M3 to Navan railway line, or possibly an upgrade of the Navan to Drogheda line with an extension from the M3 to Dunshaughlin which could free up capital for an increase for Local Link buses.
My next question probably follows on from the points raised by Deputy Clendennen. It is about risk aversion, etc. Will there be incentives for accountability, efficiency and productivity to be incorporated into work practices and the delivery of the objectives of the NDP? In that same space, must local authorities have detailed plans completed for NDP funding or are objectives in county development plans sufficient? I use my own county of Meath as an example. We are now at the strategic issues phase of a new county development plan so we have objectives but there are not detailed transport plans. Various local authorities will be at different stages. How will that be managed?
My final question is an extension of matters discussed at our disability matters committee meeting this morning. We had fantastic presentations from two schools in relation to the incorporation of integrated therapies for supporting children with additional needs and how they currently operate on philanthropic funding. The results they are getting and the supports the children receive are producing massive savings. Instead of spending money on residential care or rehabilitation, these preventative approaches are transformative. The school principals and their teams gather an awful lot of data and provide that data to the Department but it is not then readily accessible for forward planning. If there are places where there is best practice and they have costings, can that be used to feed in for funding to mainstream some of these integrated therapies in the absence of Departmental data? I appreciate it is probably more for the Department of Children, Disability and Equality.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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On the disability sector, some of what the Deputy referenced there is very much connected to current expenditure and what we allocate to the disability side of that directly. The direct funding from the Department of disability is into the HSE and primarily relates to some of the supports for therapeutics and other supports. In the context of her overall envelope, the Minister, Deputy Foley, will be able to respond to that. There should be an evidence-base and data used. Something we are engaging in for the budgetary process is that it is not just about how we spend the additional sum for next year, but also how we look at the overall base of expenditure in disability and how we can best utilise that in the interest of supporting the population who need that support and therapy. I am sure she would be able to respond directly to the Deputy's point.
On the issue of the objectives and how they align with the different local authorities being at different stages, some will have local area plans. The Department of housing has different funding streams, which it will provide clarity on in the housing plan and its sectoral investment plan relating to housing. There will be an emphasis on housing and infrastructure connected to that. There will not be an expectation that every local authority will have to have every plan agreed in the next three or four weeks. They are obviously at different stages and it is dependent on an annual basis from what is made available relating to a particular scheme and how it aligns with the key objectives set out by the Department of housing and how the local objectives align with those. That is how it will work.
The Deputy referenced productivity and work practices. At the moment, some of the process that is there is just being followed in terms of the guidelines we have. The guidelines themselves are followed but they sometimes lead to projects taking too long in how they are worked through. It is up to us to reform how they operate. People will follow a new system if it is developed. I believe that will be the case and the emphasis will be on delivery. Some of the wider piece we are doing on risk aversion and culture will be important as well. It is really important to support people in the rebalancing that will happen too.
On the Deputy's point about cost benefit analysis, the national planning framework and local population objectives, all of that is captured in the current infrastructure guidelines. Obviously, different major capital projects have to feed through those as they move through the different decision points.
Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister and his officials for being with us today and assisting us in this important matter. We had spoken before the summer but we wanted to leave it until after the break and after the plan was published in July to better discuss it.
It is going to be a busy couple of weeks for the Minister. On that basis, we will conclude our proceedings.