Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 16 July 2025
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy
Climate Change Targets 2026-2030: Electricity Sector
2:00 am
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
We have not received any apologies. The first business on our clár is an engagement with the electricity sector on climate change targets for 2030. The purpose of the meeting is to kick off a discussion with the aim of identifying the 15 to 20 barriers across all sectors that will prevent Ireland from achieving the climate change targets for 2026 to 2030. We plan to engage on this topic sector by sector and start today with witnesses from the electricity sector. I welcome to from ESB Networks, Mr. Nicholas Tarrant, managing director, and Mr. Brian Brady, head of network resilience and climate adaptation; from EirGrid, Mr. Cathal Marley, chief executive, Ms Siobhan O'Shea, interim chief infrastructure officer onshore, and Mr. Liam Ryan, chief transformation and technology officer; from Wind Energy Ireland, Mr. Noel Cunniffe, chief executive officer, Mr. Dave Linehan, head of policy and research, and Mr. Justin Moran, director of external affairs. The witnesses are all very welcome.
I ask everyone in attendance to ensure their phones are either on silent or switched off. Before I invite the witnesses to deliver opening statements, I advise everybody of the following as regards parliamentary privilege. Witnesses and members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory as regards an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
In regard to the format of proceedings today, I will invite witnesses, in turn, to make an opening statement of a maximum of five minutes. Once those statements have been delivered, I will then call members in the order in which they indicate to me to put their questions. We operate a rota system which provides each member with an initial six minutes to engage with witnesses. It is important for members to note that the six minutes are for both questions and answers and, therefore, it is essential for them to put their questions succinctly and for witnesses to be succinct in their responses. When all members have indicated and have had their initial engagement, time permitting we will have a second round where each member will have up to three minutes for both questions and answers. Please note that the duration of the meeting is limited and, therefore, the times must be strictly adhered to. I ask everybody to be focused on their contributions.
I call on each organisation to deliver its opening statement, as follows: Mr. Nicholas Tarrant, managing director of ESB Networks, followed by Mr. Cathal Marley, chief executive of EirGrid, followed by Mr. Noel Cuniffe, chief executive officer of Wind Energy Ireland. They have five minutes each.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I thank the committee for the invitation. I am managing director of ESB Networks. I am joined by my colleague, Mr. Brian Brady, head of network resilience and climate adaptation. I welcome the opportunity to speak on the role of ESB Networks in enabling the delivery of the climate action plan targets. I will start by covering some key points. The role of ESB Networks is to design, build, own, operate and maintain the electricity distribution network and, as transmission asset owner, to design, build, own and maintain the onshore electricity transmission network, where we work in close co-operation with EirGrid as transmission system operator.
To meet the rapidly growing needs across all sectors the electricity network must undergo a transformative step change in development. Under price review 6, ESB Networks has proposed, together with EirGrid, for the onshore transmission system investment, a €13.4 billion capital investment programme for the period 2026 to 2030. Examples of key areas where ESB Networks is enabling progress in the climate action plan targets include the following: to date, 6,474 MW of utility scale renewable energy across 433 projects has been connected to the electricity grid; an additional 843 MW of renewables has been installed by over 147,000 mini-generators, micro- and small-scale generators and non-export generators. Based on current customer programmes, we expect to connect more than 900 MW of utility scale renewable generation in 2025 which, if delivered, would surpass the previous record of 688 MW set in 2022.
The continued delivery of capacity reinforcement projects to support the renewable connections to the networks is another key area of work. We have also installed 2 million smart meters, which support the national energy demand strategy. We enabled the connection of publicly accessible charging infrastructure of over 3,800 charge points throughout Ireland and also provided for infrastructure for the electrification of the bus fleet with projects completed in Athlone, Dublin and Limerick and in progress achieved in Cork city.
We are also working with the DART+ and the MetroLink projects, as well as future projects such as the Luas Cork project, to enable the electrification of public transport. We are continuing to connect A-rated new homes with heat pumps and electric vehicle, EV, charging capacity. The electrical design capacity for new houses is more than double that of pre-2020.
There are areas of focus to ensure continued momentum. There are large and accelerating demands on the electricity network driven by requirements for new housing, economic growth, large users connecting to the network and climate action plan targets. Approval of the investment set out in price review 6, PR 6, is a key enabler for this work. In advance of delivering these projects, ESB Networks is actively developing interim solutions, where possible, and is working closely with EirGrid to bring additional capacity online. Our publicly available network capacity heat map provides transparent, regularly updates and information to support customers to identify potential connection points with sufficient capacity. We are continuing to build our internal capability as well as significantly growing our contract partner resourcing.
Despite this, there are resource constraints in the energy sector, which we are actively managing in parallel with the increase in work volume. The lead time for key equipment has seen major increases since the Russian invasion of Ukraine. For example, we have seen some lead times double. For large electrical transformers, they are more than 24 months. The demand for this equipment across Europe, and globally, has dramatically increased as countries invest to support the decarbonisation of their networks to meet their climate change targets. We continue to work as part of the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment’s accelerating renewable electricity, ARE, task force, which was established under the Climate Action Plan 2023. The work of this task force is crucial to support the acceleration of renewable generation connections and delivery of the climate action plan targets.
ESB Networks is strongly committed to the delivery of the climate action plan targets. There has been very positive progress to date and we continue to scale up our delivery capability to transform the electricity network over the years ahead. We will be happy to take questions from members in due course.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Go raibh maith agat. I invite Mr. Cathal Marley, chief executive of EirGrid, to make his opening statement.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
I thank the Cathaoirleach and members of the committee for the opportunity to join them today. I am joined by my colleagues, Ms Siobhán O’Shea, interim chief infrastructure officer for onshore, and Mr. Liam Ryan, chief transformation and technology officer who also has responsibility for offshore.
We welcome the opportunity to speak with the committee about EirGrid’s role as Ireland’s transmission system operator. EirGrid is responsible for the electricity grid in Ireland. The grid moves high volumes of electricity across large sections of the island, from where electricity is generated to where it needs to be used. We manage and operate the grid, ensuring balanced supply and demand 24-7. We work in an increasingly complex environment as we seek to increase the amount of renewable energy on to the grid. EirGrid strategically plans, manages and operates onshore grid infrastructure. We also identify and consent the range of projects required, many of which are strategically critical for Ireland’s future. Our role as offshore transmission operator is to connect offshore wind, which is currently based on two phases.
With regard to progress so far, I acknowledge the significant progress made, in the last five years in particular, to reach our climate action targets. In that time, 1 GW of renewables and another 700 MW of storage have been connected to the transmission system; 51 planning consents have been obtained with a further six applications pending; 262 exempt development notices were secured; and the amount of renewable energy that can be used on a second-by-second basis by the system has increased from 60% to 75%. The number of conventional fossil fuel units we need at any point in time has reduced from five to four. We also successfully secured a maritime usage licence from the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, MARA, last week, which will allow us to undertake marine site investigation for the Tonn Nua area, the phase 2 offshore. We have built significant internal capacity and capability within EirGrid over the last number of years, including recruiting internationally to increase expertise needed. We have achieved all of this against a backdrop of increasing demand for electricity. Peak demand grew by 20%, which is 1 GW over the five years between 2020 and 2025, compared with ten years for a similar increase previously. This is reflective of our social, economic and industrial growth and the advances in the electrification of heat and transport.
As onshore grid infrastructure is so fundamental to reaching our climate targets and unlocking social and economic growth, EirGrid is working as part of a number of Government task forces, including the Government’s accelerating renewable energy task force, to identify barriers to delivery and solutions. There are elements within our collective control such as the complexity of projects; resourcing of the supply chain; clarity for customers on timelines; and the effective utilisation of outages to enable the connection of renewables. These challenges are not unique and we work closely with international colleagues to share learnings to address them. There are other specific barriers and solutions to these, including expediting timelines for planning and consenting; a continued commitment to multi-year funding; enhanced political support at all levels; increased accessibility to land and engagement with landowners; addressing the availability of suitable land for key infrastructure; and enhanced public engagement at local and national level.
A further step change in the delivery of infrastructure will be required over the five years to 2030 and this is captured in the draft determination on price review 6, published by our regulator, the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, on 3 July. EirGrid’s PR 6 business plan aims to meet a range of objectives, with emphasis placed on key programmes of work including delivery of new onshore infrastructure including upgrades to existing lines, new overhead lines, new underground cables and new and expanded substations; EirGrid’s new role owning and being responsible for offshore transmission assets; work to ensure that both our grid and market operations are ready to integrate further renewables and future interconnection, for example, the Celtic Interconnector; and significant investment in technology and people to support EirGrid’s growth requirements and critical role in operating a secure and reliable electricity system.
This is a timely opportunity to invest in Ireland’s future. Investment in our grid and delivery of that infrastructure are fundamental to unlocking greater energy independence and security, as well as supporting sustainable national and regional economic growth and a resilient society. As EirGrid continues to make significant progress towards our targets, our focus remains on working closely with our stakeholders, including the Government, our regulator, ESB Networks and industry, to support Ireland’s progress towards a cleaner, more sustainable future.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Marley. Our third speaker is Mr. Noel Cunniffe, chief executive officer of Wind Energy Ireland.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I thank the Cathaoirleach and members of the committee for the opportunity to appear before them today to represent the views of our more than 200 member companies. I am joined by our head of policy and research, Mr. Dave Linehan, and our director of external affairs, Mr. Justin Moran.
Wind energy has become Ireland’s leading source of renewable electricity. Last year, Irish wind farms provided 32% of the country’s electricity. No country in Europe gets a larger share of their power from onshore wind farms than we do. Yet, every hour Ireland is spending €1 million to import fossil fuels when there is a viable alternative and a way to keep this money at home. Our wind farms strengthen Irish energy security. In the past three years, Irish wind farms cut spending on imported fossil fuels by €3.3 billion and saved almost €1 billion more in carbon credits, while displacing almost 7 billion cu. m of fossil fuel gas.
Our wind farms protect Irish electricity consumers. Research published this year demonstrates that since 2000, renewable electricity has, conservatively, saved consumers nearly €1 billion. Between 2020 and 2023, at the height of the energy crisis and the Covid-19 pandemic, renewable electricity cut bills by an average of €320 per person. The next five years are an opportunity to make unprecedented progress in moving our nation to rely on locally produced renewable energy and accelerate the next phase of Ireland’s economic development. To achieve this we must first accelerate the delivery of Ireland’s most affordable new source of electricity, onshore wind farms. In the first study of its kind, a report published this year by planning consultancy MKO analysed Ireland’s geography, examining the land available in the country for future development. It identified roughly 1,300 sq. km on which new wind farms could be built, less than 2% of the Republic of Ireland. Conservative estimates suggest this could produce nearly 6,000 MW of additional onshore wind energy beyond our 9,000 MW target for 2030. Delivering this power, which is possible by delivering our existing pipeline and developing the land identified in this research, will drive down electricity prices for Irish families and businesses. We are calling on the Government to set new targets for onshore wind energy of 11,000 MW by 2035 and 15,000 MW by 2040, and we ask for the committee’s support.
Looking beyond our shores, offshore wind energy can complete our country’s quest for energy independence and economic prosperity.
In May, we launched our Offshore Wind Action Plan. It sets out the clear and practical Government actions to support the delivery of offshore wind projects through 24 targeted actions, split across four delivery areas.
The first of these is delivering the phase 1 projects to establish Ireland’s offshore wind industry. This is an essential first step. The second involves maximising the south coast DMAP by progressing the Tonn Nua site auction later this year and developing the three other sites in the DMAP. The third is accelerating the national ORE DMAP to provide a long-term pipeline of projects for both fixed and floating wind. The final one involves building vital infrastructure and co-ordinated electricity demand strategies, which includes investment in ports, grid capacity and new industries which can both support and benefit from offshore wind growth. Among the recommendations are the urgent resourcing of planning authorities and key State agencies, clarity on future grid access and offshore auctions and enabling the necessary investment in our ports to ensure that Irish offshore wind farms are constructed at home in order to benefit our coastal communities. The actions laid out in the plan will help remove barriers to the delivery of clean, affordable offshore energy, and we look forward to discussing them with the committee.
Last year, Ireland set a new record for installed wind energy generation, with over 5,000 MW of onshore wind now connecting to the system. However, it was also the worst year on record for wasted wind power, with recent research estimating the cost to consumers of this waste rose from €90 million in 2016 to €450 million last year. Despite the best efforts of our colleagues in EirGrid and ESB Networks, our electricity grid is simply not able to cope with what our members produce, let alone meet future demands from offshore wind, solar generation and the electrification of our economy. Every time a wind turbine is shut down because the grid cannot take the electricity, it means higher bills and more carbon emissions. I ask the committee to support calls for continued investment in our energy infrastructure in order to increase grid capacity and energy storage and to publically back proposed grid infrastructure projects. If we fail to support and deliver the grid, we will fail to grow our economy, put our electricity supply at risk and effectively abandon our legal climate obligations.
At a time when our economy is under threat from tariffs, energy costs and global uncertainty, we have a solution in Ireland. To develop this enormous potential, we need evidence-based new wind energy guidelines and a well-resourced planning system that prioritises renewable energy and takes full advantage of changes in EU law designed to accelerate the development of wind power. Supporting this we must have a stronger electricity grid which ensures the clean, affordable, power from these wind farms gets to those who need it. Building that grid means delivering essential upgrades and new power lines. I refer here, for example, to the North-South interconnector, which is the spine around which we can build an electricity grid for a 21st century economy. The challenge is significant, but the reward will be a clean, affordable, energy-secure future, that supports Irish jobs and communities. That is a future and a country worth investing in.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Cunniffe. I will take members in order in which they have indicated. An Teachta Ó Cearúil will start.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach. I apologise but I will be in and out because I am due to speak in the Chamber at any moment. I thank the officials for being here and for their opening statements.
An infrastructure committee has been established by the Minister, Deputy Chambers. Many of the officials present will be contributing to that. My first question is to Mr. Marley. It is on upgrades to the grid. We speak rightly about the need to upgrade the grid, interconnectors, power lines - both underground and overground - etc. However, what does improving the grid mean in simple terms and why does it cost so much money?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
I will give an initial response and then pass over to Ms O'Shea. On the transmission side, we take the electricity from the generators. There has been a massive transformation there. That used to be very stable. It used to come from particular conventional generating stations, but now it comes from renewables, including solar, onshore wind and, we hope, offshore wind. That is our job. There is huge change happening. It is coming at different frequencies and voltages, so there are lots of technical things happening. We have to manage the grid to be able to take that power onto the system.
Electricity also comes from different places now. The grid was designed and built around traditional conventional plants. We had a good idea where they were going to be located. As the electricity is now coming from different places the grid has to be expanded to be allowed to move that. When we talk about dispatch down that is one of the issues. If wind is being generated in one place and the grid is not there to transport it to another place where there is demand that is a challenge, so we have to build that out.
The other aspect is the way the demand is located and operated is shifting. We are electrifying society with heat pumps and electric vehicles, EVs, and we have data centres. All that is changing and changes what we need to do with the infrastructure. Then there is economic growth generally. It needs a bigger infrastructure. It was designed for a certain level of society, the investment maybe was not put in as quickly as it needed to be over the past ten, 15 or more years, and now we are trying to do a catch-up on that. That is why it is more expensive.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I appreciate it is a simple question, but a lot of people do not understand or realise what the grid is, what is involved in upgrading it and why there is the demand both financial and from a planning perspective in terms of upgrading the grid. There have been statements made by the Minister for public expenditure that the Apple tax money, as it were, will be going into key infrastructure projects, including that relating to the grid. If we were to start tomorrow on some of the significant projects that were outlined, when would we be at a stage to deal with current capacity - from what Mr. Marley was saying we are just getting by but are struggling with capacity - and future projected growth up to say, 2030?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
I will pass this over to Ms O'Shea, but we should not mix up grid capacity and generation capacity. They are different things. Generation capacity is tight, but we are able to manage it. We have things in place like the temporary emergency generation and the interconnectors. Moneypoint is there as well as a backup. That is generation capacity. It is tight but we should be able to manage through it and we have auctions taking place to build more conventional plant. Grid capacity is different. We have a number of projects. Ms O'Shea might take that.
Ms Siobhán O'Shea:
Grid capacity is complex and not the easiest thing for individuals to understand. When we look at the grid, the solutions that are built at transmission level are to meet all the policy objectives of the Government. At a very fundamental level that is security of supply, but we are also looking at the facilitation of renewables and the meeting of all kinds of demand, including demand in relation to the electrification of heat and power, housing and commercial and industrial needs more generally. The programme of work we have designed for the next five years is the most ambitious infrastructure programme of work that has ever been carried out on the transmission system. Within that programme are 231 projects to be delivered within the next five years by the end of the price review, PR, 6 period. This is to unlock that greater energy independence and security and all the societal needs. The significant transmission infrastructure projects will allow the grid to be ready while we are also unlocking the generation on the other side and to ensure the power can travel to where it needs to go so the demand can be met. Within that programme we have identified 29 transmission priority projects. They make up approximately 50% of the network capital expenditure ask for the PR6 period. Those 29 priority projects have been identified as the most strategic projects to unlock the benefits for society across the country.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Turning to offshore wind energy, accelerating the national ORE DMAP is crucial. Are we on track? If not, what do we need to do to speed up the process?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
We have targets for 2030. We are currently not on track to hit those.
It is more likely that we will hit our 2030 offshore wind targets at some point in the early 2030s, namely in 2033 or 2034.
The national ORE DMAP, which was announced by the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, a number of months ago, is due to be completed before the end of 2027. For that to happen, we need to make sure the Department receives necessary resources to be able to scale up in order that it can carry out technical desktop analyses, seabed surveys and environmental assessments and engage in significant community engagement. The national ORE process for that DMAP will encapsulate the entire coastline of Ireland. We saw that with the south coast DMAP, it took 18 months of really hard work on the part of the Department in order to reach a successful outcome. The Department was well resourced to do that. The area involved was quite small, particularly when we consider what we are trying to do now with the national ORE DMAP. We are hopeful that it can be delivered. It needs to be delivered by 2027 in order for us to hit our 2040 targets. To do that, the necessary resources must be in place.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank everyone for coming in. We are here to evaluate the prospect reaching our climate targets and look at the barriers in that regard. One of those barriers relates to data centres. We had a situation with Castlebaggot recently in the context of grid capacity. That capacity was originally supposed to be for housing but it is being used up by data centres. Mr. Marley referred to PR6. The capacity relating to a significant proportion of new connections to the grid is obviously being taken up by data centres. Do the witnesses agree with that?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Recently, the capacity relating to many new connections would be taken up by data centres and upgrades would be needed as a result.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Does Mr. Marley anticipate that they will drive up demand in the future?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
Possibly. It depends on the direction from the CRU. It issued its direction in 2021, which is restricting any future connections. It is working on a review to get a policy out. We are interacting with it on that, as are others, and we are doing a market intelligence exercise with ESB and some other parties to identify the potential for data centres, what the expectations are, where they would be located and if there would be constraints in those areas. An exercise is being done. The only data centre that has been contracted since 2021 is Arklow.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Did the modelling for PR6 take into account the potential for a data centre?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is the Tonn Nua auction being held in September or October?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
There are other sites on the DMAP. Will there be an auction in respect of another site next year? Have the witnesses a date for that?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Will the next one be in the first half of next year, maybe?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Have the witnesses been making plans? Are they happy that the grid will have the capacity to take it?
Dr. Liam Ryan:
We have done a number of things. Over the past number of years, we did Shaping Our Electricity Future, which was a vision of the power system meeting the Government's climate action plans out to 2030. Part of that was looking at the 5 GW of offshore energy and also looking at all the onshore commitments that were needed to get us towards the Government targets. With respect to those, under PR6, we have submitted the funding requirements. The CRU is currently consulting on that matter. I expect it will opine on the matter later this year to deliver on the targets that we have. To answer the Deputy's question, we are planning to deliver the grid, both onshore and offshore, to meet the targets that are set down.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
For any subsequent auctions after the Tonn Nua auction, a number of things would need to be done in the south coast DMAP. In our offshore wind action plan, one thing which has not been done yet is the implementation of the south coast DMAP implementation board. It is a specific board that was due to be set up to be able to determine how best to utilise the sites. That could be through future auctions or through competitive maritime area consent processes for seabed leases. That has not been established yet. We are calling for it in order that there will be some certainty about what we can do with sites B, C and D within the DMAP.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Capacity studies are being prepared by Eirgrid to take that on board. When will they be ready or published?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
In advance of the auction taking place?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Has Eirgrid any targets for long-duration energy storage?
Dr. Liam Ryan:
In Shaping Our Electricity Future, we are calling for about 2.9 GW of long-duration energy storage to be brought onto the system. We have been engaging with the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment about it. I am happy to say that it consulted and put out a direction to us earlier this year. We intend to go to consultation in September or October with respect to long-duration energy storage. That will involve industry engagement on how we should evolve this over the coming time.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Has Eirgrid locations in mind for those?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
By locational signals, does Dr. Ryan mean proposed locations?
Dr. Liam Ryan:
Yes, ideally, from the system operator, but that would need to go through consultation, because we know that people are developing or have planning permission for storage in various locations on the system. Therefore, we need to figure out how we get this onto the system as quickly as we possibly can.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Has Dr. Ryan a timeframe for that?
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Gabhaim buíochas le gach duine. It is really lovely to have everyone in. I do not envy them the job they have ahead of them. As elected representatives, our role is to try to get transparency about what is happening to our grid and infrastructure.
I have a few questions. The first is for Eirgrid and Mr. Marley. Regarding our ORE being built at sea, we are installing the cables to connect to wind farms now, but the ORE is already delayed by slow planning and the recent request for further information from An Coimisiún Pleanála. Is there any update on the delay relating to the ORE? Will it delay electrification and diminish our 2030 goals?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
We have five phase 1 projects that we are trying to deliver by 2030. All five are in planning. There are actually six in planning. The project which was cancelled off the west coast is still in planning. Three of those projects received further information requests from An Coimisiún Pleanála earlier this year. They were substantial further information requests and were really robust. Many of the things that they point to are the need for further engagement with a number of State agencies which were simply not resourced enough to be able to engage with the projects before they went into planning. We have already seen some of the benefits of new resources that have gone into An Coimisiún Pleanála. We are seeing faster turnaround times for energy infrastructure and wind projects. We now need to see the same level of resourcing going into other State entities, like the National Parks and Wildlife Service and a number of agencies under the Department of Transport, in order to manage these projects and get them through quickly.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Was the recent investment of €90 million in the Cork port sufficient to expand the port? We all know we need space in the ports for these giant vessels bringing in these components. Is it sufficient or would Mr. Cunniffe encourage more investment into Cork or Galway port to extend offshore renewable energy?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
At the moment, the only port on the island of Ireland that can build an offshore windfarm is in Belfast. Cork port has started construction on phase 1 of its expansion. There are two more phases that will need to continue to roll out to be fully capable of building multiple offshore windfarms simultaneously. The expansion of Cork port will help to build some of the phase 1 projects but it can still only build one project at a time.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Mr. Cunniffe does not think it is a sufficient investment.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
It is not enough to hit 2030 targets and to build all of the projects simultaneously. We need to continue more investment and we have been calling for an update of the national ports policy for sometime now, which we are expecting later this year, to allow for State funding in Ireland's ports.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I appreciate that. I am on the same page. Turning back to the ESB, does Mr. Tarrant still expect 2040 as a date to have fully decarbonised the electricity grid and what needs to be done to ensure this can still be achieved as an EU target?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We set out a strategy to look to invest over multiple price reviews. We are heading into price review 6, which runs until 2030, and then there will be price review 7 and price review 8. The idea of setting an ambition of investing and having the electricity network as ready as we can in 2040 is to enable Ireland to hit the 2050 targets no later than 2050. It is very ambitious to set out an investment programme over the next 15 years. The approval for the investment programme for the next five years is crucial for that in the first instance, because we are scaling up in many different ways across our business, not only our own internal resourcing but also the external resourcing that we rely on to build these key infrastructure projects. We have an overall programme that has been submitted to the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, for €13.4 billion. Of that, €5.9 billion is for transmission. There is a substantial distribution investment required to grow the capacity needed in the network. We can see sustained need for investment over the years ahead to continue the progress towards 2040 targets and 2050 targets.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I appreciate that response. Mr. Tarrant mentioned the current grid. We all know we really have to boost our battery storage. I recognise that he said there is 2.0 GW being installed, but we can all accept it has not been done quickly enough. I recently visited a solar farm that had to turn off its supply at midday. As we all know, curtailment stops the solar farms. They do not have batteries on the sites to store energy. One thing that is really annoying for the Irish public is that we are generating electricity and energy, and we are turning off our renewable projects to then import renewable energy from the UK. What would be the future-proof plan to stop that happening? The Irish public really wants us to use our energy. The PSO needs to be reduced and it is really frustrating for people to think about it. These renewable projects are there and they are generating electricity that is then going nowhere. Is there an update on when we can expect to see a large-scale infrastructure change in our battery storage across the country to really future-proof our grid? If we are going to hit these targets, this is what we need to do. The witnesses know this.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I can comment on the work we have under way in ESB Networks. I know EirGrid also has a programme around flexibility. The first thing to reference is the national energy demand strategy, which we are working on as part of a group led by our own Department, and we are working closely with the regulator as part of that. Under that umbrella, there are a number of different work streams. One of them is around having flexible connections so that people will use electricity differently. Under the umbrella of the smart metering programme, we can encourage more flexible use of electricity such as by moving off-peak and having different tariff regimes. Then there is the procurement of flexibility. The Deputy mentioned things like batteries. We are about to go out to the market for up to 500 MW of flexibility to help harness the renewables, help shift demand and, as part of that, address the areas of constraint we have in the network. There is a lot of work and there has been huge growth in the deployment of large-scale batteries in Ireland over the last few years.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Why are we still importing electricity from the UK when we are generating our own that is going to waste? That is the real question the public wants to know.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
I will take it at a very high level and then Dr. Ryan is the expert on this. It is not just about battery storage. There are a few elements. One reason for dispatching down windfarms is constraints and that is the grid. The wind might be generated in one area and we are not able to transport it to an area of demand. That is the grid infrastructure programme in price review 6 that we are putting in place and have been working on. The other is grid operation innovation, where we are bringing on renewables. That has to be done very carefully. We have recently seen what happens when that does not go right. We have increased that from 60% to 75% and we have to be very careful about how we do it. We cannot just bring on every bit of wind that is there. We have to keep a conventional plant on to keep the grid stable. We are working really hard on that and using a lot of innovation. Dr. Ryan can speak to that. The others are battery storage, which the Deputy mentioned and which will help as well, and demand-side flexibility, which Mr. Tarrant mentioned. The interconnectors are going to be really useful. They are going to be good for security of supply and affordability as well, hopefully. There is an interplay between interconnectors, conventional plants on the island and a renewable plant. That does need to be worked out. Interconnectors are really good and are really important to us, but there is a balance between interconnection and the renewables that we need to work through.
Dr. Liam Ryan:
To step back a little bit, first of all we are building at the grid and we will build out that grid. With respect to the local issues we have, being able to co-locate storage at the same location as where we have those excess renewables is really important. One of the Deputy's colleagues mentioned locational. That is really important for us from a system operator perspective. If we can co-locate, we can maximise the utilisation of the existing grid we have. The best way to describe the grid is by thinking about the road network. In essence, some of the asks we are being asked to do relate to where we might have lanes and byways and we are being asked to make them into motorways. That takes time and we need to invest into it. Storage is one of the items that can help that by making sure it is in the right location. We can use those circuits a lot more effectively and efficiently, and that relates to constraints. If we look at curtailment, it means only 75% of our instantaneous electricity second by second can come from non-synchronous sources like wind and solar or interconnection. Our intention is that by 2030, although it is going to be a real stretch, we will get that to 95%. Ireland is to the forefront. Currently, there is no place, to my knowledge, around the world that is operating a power system where 75% of their instantaneous electricity comes from wind and solar.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Portugal is doing quite well.
Dr. Liam Ryan:
It is. It is doing really well, but we need to be careful when we take those steps that system security must to the forefront of all our minds. We have been doing this in a very structured manner across the whole ecosystem. One thing that would really help in accelerating the renewables on the system is making sure we have hybrid connections. That is where you co-locate your renewable generation with other types of generation such that you are now maximising the utilisation of the existing grid we have. In addition to that, we are also looking at how we can put smart technologies onto the system to maximise the utilisation of the grid we have. The likes of dynamic line rating would be one example.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I welcome the witnesses. My first question is for Mr. Cunniffe and relates to the recent policy decision of the Government around what was the development of the marine protected area, MPA, network through legislation. He will be aware I spoke at Wind Energy Ireland's conference in 2024 about marrying the needs of marine biodiversity with the ambition for offshore renewables. Has the change of direction taken to incorporate the 30 by 30 targets into the Maritime Area Planning Act and the designated maritime area plan, DMAP, process created uncertainty in the sector?
We were very close to finalising that piece of legislation and it would probably be the quickest and best way to get where we want to be in terms of the need to know where the areas are. We accelerated the special protection areas, SPAs, in the seas off Wexford and the east coast, which were very helpful to the sector as well. It is about that uncertainty for the sector in order that a planning system we will know where the areas of interest are for marine biodiversity.
Mr. Justin Moran:
I thank the Senator. Our position has been and continues to be that we need a marine protected areas Bill. That is where we are at the moment. We have seen the announcement the Government is looking at another option and we are approaching that with an open mind because we want to see whether that option can deliver something as robust as the MPA Bill. If it is quicker, it might give us a better indication and more certainty. Mr. Cunniffe mentioned it already but one of the key issues for us is delivery of the national offshore renewable energy, ORE, DMAP on time by the end of 2027. It would be really helpful to know possible protected areas to factor that into the development of that DMAP. If the best and quickest way to do that is a marine protected areas Bill, we should do that. If there is another way to do it which would deliver it even more quickly and at the same level of robustness, we would look at that with an open mind.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Moran. I am of the view that the MPA Bill is probably the best way to deliver it. It may not necessarily be the quickest but it possibly could be at this stage because the Government will have to start a whole new process. Is there concern that the goalposts have shifted in some direction? A lot of the mapping is done and a lot of the observed programmes have all been completed, so there is quite a lot of data out there. My own, personally held view is that we should proceed with the MPA Bill. It is something I would like to hear the views of the sector on.
Mr. Justin Moran:
Touching on what Mr. Cunniffe said earlier on, if that data is there, it needs to be integral to the development of that national DMAP for offshore renewable energy. If it ends up being the marine protected areas Bill and it takes more time, if we can still use that data to develop the DMAP and do it in a way that we know where we can and should build, and where we probably should not build, that would be extraordinarily helpful. In order to that, we do not just need the data. We need people with the expertise to convert that data into solid information.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I will move back to the issue of dry land and the land use review. There appears to be a delay again in publishing that. Is the sector concerned at not having that land use review in the public domain in terms of meeting the ambition for onshore renewables?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
There are number of different processes happening at the moment. There is also the revision of the national development plan, which sets out regional targets for renewable energy projects. We understand there is a rule set being developed at the moment for how to set those national targets down at regional levels, which will then cascade down to county development plan areas. That will undergo a rezoning of county development plans to enable more renewable energy. That is something we are very supportive of and we are very willing to support it. We really want to see the outcome of it as quickly as possible. The land use review strategy will be key to feed into that too.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is Mr. Cunniffe frustrated at the delay in publishing wind energy guidelines? I know it is causing a lot of frustration at local authority level as well.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
It has been an ongoing concern for us as well. We have been calling for the publication of the wind energy guidelines for several years to provide certainty for the sector on how to develop future onshore wind farms, to go back to the certainty point. We are very keen to see the publication of scientifically based wind energy guidelines that can take a balance on the need to hit targets to reduce the price of renewable electricity but also take into account the concerns that some communities might have. The more quickly we see those guidelines, the better.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I will briefly add something on land use. As part of the updating of the local authority plans, the zoning of land for key infrastructure like electricity substations is critical because we cannot really develop wind and solar resources without key infrastructure like these substations. As part of PR6, we have a huge programme and having the zoning and pathway to getting these substations built as quickly as possible is a key consideration.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Mr. Marley mentioned the delays in the planning system. Will he elaborate on that at local authority and An Coimisiún Pleanála level? What assistance will the new Planning and Development Act give towards that?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
The new planning Act will definitely help. I have no issues with that. Our experience is that a lot of stuff has moved through planning a lot better, which is good. The bigger issue is about critical strategic infrastructure. The integrity of the planning system needs to be maintained but we need to move things through the process more quickly. It is not just the planning. We are finding that even when we get planning, we have a separate issue of landowner access. That is probably a bigger issue for critical infrastructure for us at the moment.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I have a question for Wind Energy Ireland first. It has identified roughly 1,300 sq. km on which new wind farms could be built. Where precisely are they? With the CRU's draft PR6 decision that said households and SMEs will see an increase in network charges while large energy users like data centres will see a reduction of up to 18% in prices, could it explain to us - to the public, really - how it is consulting with communities around this? How would Wind Energy Ireland explain that renewable energy drives down electricity prices? At the moment, we are seeing the demand increase so much from data centres. It has increased by 400% in the previous ten years. Data centres are driving up the demand for electricity while they are being asked to contribute less towards the cost of that.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Has public consultation started?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I understand the public consultation question relates to the price review query. Colleagues in EirGrid and ESB Networks might be best placed to answer on that one. On behalf of the wind energy industry, we are extremely supportive of providing the resources and revenue that EirGrid and ESB Networks need to be able to deliver the network. There might be increases in network costs but if we can deliver that network, we will be able to utilise more of the renewable energy that is being wasted, which was referred to earlier, which will drive down wholesale prices. I believe that all committee members will have in their inboxes today the results of our latest wind energy report from June, which showed that on the days we had the most wind energy available on the system last month, prices were 40% lower than on the days when we could not use wind or we did not have it available. The more we enable that through building the network, the better.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I will comment on what we did in advance of submission of our business plan for PR6. Around this time last year, we ran a consultation on what we called our approach to developing our business plan for the price review period. That business plan was submitted in November 2024. Through the summer last year, we ran a consultation process to allow stakeholders to feed in, based on the approach we were setting out around investment and infrastructure. The approach catered for things like connecting more renewables, economic growth, electrification of heat and transport and, ultimately, that feedback was fed in to our business plan process. We published it in November on a transparent basis. It was what we were planning to invest, as we submitted this business plan to the CRU, and the potential impact of that investment from distribution - distribution only - on customer bills.
As part of the consideration of the CRU in the meantime, it looked at our investment plans for distribution. Also, because we deliver the investment plans for transmission onshore once they are developed by EirGrid, CRU assessed that overall piece, including offshore. Recently, it published a draft determination with the potential impact on customer bills if that was the decision taken. One of the features of the transmission aspect of bills is that because of the temporary emergency generation that was installed over recent years, there has been an increase. As that cost reduces, that is probably why it is coming down on the transmission system.
If we look at it in the round, however, what the CRU has published is the overall impact, taking into account offshore and onshore transmission and distribution. The document has just been published and is now out for consultation.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
In his statement, Mr. Tarrant outlines that 6,474 MW of renewable energy has been connected to the grid. Does he know approximately what percentage of that is going towards data centres?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I am not able to comment on that. Data centres, as a component of overall demand in terawatt hours, account for roughly 23% of total demand and they are heading towards something like 30% at the end of the decade. My colleagues in EirGrid might be able to comment on this. About 40% of end-user consumption is from renewables. Other witnesses might be able to give more accurate figures on that, but that is approximately what they are.
Dr. Liam Ryan:
I will respond first to the question that was asked at the very beginning about building out the grid. We are building out the grid to be able to cater for a 50% demand increase. That is to cover all aspects of society from the electrification of transport, to normal economic growth and also large energy users. That aligns with Government policy. We are making sure over that period that we connect renewables to the system to align with Government policy. In 2023, some 21% of our energy was associated with large energy users. That includes data centres and some of the large tech companies as well. This year we are probably looking at that being in and around 22% or 23%. In looking out to 2030, we are in the region of 30%, based on the ramp rates we are seeing for the contracted large energy users on the system. We are also catering for the electrification of heat, transport and all the other aspects of society that we need to deliver over the period.
With respect to the cost and the distribution of it, when we are making our submission to the CRU we give the cost-benefit analysis associated with the infrastructure we are looking at and then the CRU opines on how best to apportion those costs across society.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I have a very quick question. Four or five years ago we were looking at the possibility of rolling blackouts. I have not heard as much talk about that lately. Is the grid in a stronger place at the moment?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
Again, we must separate generation from the grid. The grid is operating effectively. What we are watching on the grid is that as we take on more renewables, we just need to make sure we do that very carefully so that we do not have an Iberian Peninsula issue, which was not a generation issue, it was a grid issue.
In terms of generation capacity, there have been a lot of auctions, so that is helping. We have also brought in temporary emergency generators. Between that and Moneypoint, which are out of market as they are not part of the normal market, there are about 1,400 MW, which gives us protection. If something happens, they will step in and give us protection. Hopefully we will not need them but they are there. As the years go on we should be able to remove both of those completely from the system, but that will take a number of years. We have the protection in place.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses very much. I want to pick up on a couple of the questions that have been asked about large energy users. It was stated that a 50% increase in demand is anticipated, and a 30% increase from large energy users. Is it not the case that across the EU generally, this is not normal in terms of the EU average for electricity demand? There, we have seen a decrease and now a slight increase again. Is it not the case that the increase for electricity demand in Ireland is very much an outlier compared with the EU average?
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
But it is in single figures versus 50%.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Ahead of meeting and planning for it, we are allowing the increased demand to continue. The example of Portlaoise is an interesting case that was in the news. We heard about the 80 families who are unable to move into their homes because of power constraints in the area. This is one of the largest growth areas and one would imagine that it would be stress-tested regularly. Is it not the case that this is also an area where large energy users and data centres are operating? Has there been an examination of those factors and the impact they are having? Is there a tiered system to plan for electricity demand during the next five to ten years when we are seeking to bring wind energy online, which is the right approach? What are the priorities and structures in these areas for this period? Is it a matter of first come, first served?
I have a couple of other questions. Hybrid generation was mentioned. Is that about potentially having renewable generation as well as fossil-fuel generation?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Does Senator Higgins want to put all her questions at the one time?
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
They are scattered.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Let us take those two then.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I can come back or I can put them all at the same time. If that is better, I do not mind.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Let us take the first two. Mr. Tarrant has indicated that he wants to come in on the first one.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
To facilitate the meeting, I might give all my questions and then people can choose the ones they want to answer. I am conscious that I might not get back in otherwise.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Go for it.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Perhaps I could get something in writing about battery storage. It has been mentioned as a one-liner at the end of these meetings for the past six years but we hear a lot about all the other areas, and the smart meter plans, etc. Exactly how much resourcing has been put into that area? Wind Energy Ireland talked about where that fits in with the mapping piece that it has been doing. It would be very good to have more information on it. I look at the €900 million that is proposed to be spent on LNG and an LNG floating terminal. It would be very interesting to look at how much is being spent on battery infrastructure in comparison.
I have two other quick questions, one on costings and charges. The network charges for 2024 to 2025 were increased to cover the cost of temporary emergency generation. Excluding the additional temporary charges, how much of the network's component of electricity unit prices for the different categories of electricity customers is likely to increase by a percentage for the duration of PR 6, compared to PR 5? How are they going to be broken down in terms of households versus data centres? We are seeing the cost going up for households but the cost for large energy users is going down. That seems to be the projection.
Are there plans under PR 6 for additional network capacity for data centres or the expansion of existing data centres beyond what we have now? What are the issues in relation to fossil fuel generation attached to them? In terms of private wires, we did not see any prohibition on the question of fossil fuel generation there.
This is a general question for EirGrid. We still have a linking to gas costs. In terms of allowing us to really benefit from renewable energy and to see the impact in lower costs, is the linking of it to gas not preventing us from moving into a new era where the lower costs can be reflected for customers? That is for Wind Energy Ireland if the witnesses wish to respond.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
We will start with the ESB.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
In the time available we will probably not get to deal with all of the Senator's questions but we are happy to follow up with information on batteries. If there is time, I will ask Mr. Brady to come in with the numbers in that regard.
To go back to the initial questions on what is happening with electricity demand in general, there is a difference between underlying electricity demand and peak demand. One of the things we have to do is design our systems and network to cater for peak demand. There has been an increase in peak demand. This is because of various drivers, such as the electrification of heat and transport, economic growth and large users. While underlying terawatt hours or volume of electricity have been reduced or kept stable by energy efficiency, peak demand is increasing. This is being seen throughout Europe, where we see a need to double grid investment to cater for the changes that are happening.
Senator Higgins mentioned Portlaoise as an example. I will speak about that specifically. There are areas of our network where there are constraints and where we are investing. Earlier, I mentioned that considerable investment will be coming in PR6 in respect of electricity substations, for example. On reinforcement of the distribution network, in PR5, which is the current price review, we are moving from investment of €500 million up to €2.6 billion. This is what we propose under PR6 for the next five years. This is to cater for the level of growth we are already seeing on that network.
Specifically on the development in Portlaoise, and I acknowledge there has been considerable uncertainty and stress for the families involved in the development, the developer involved applied to us in March 2024. There was a revised application last August to cater for a commercial unit the developer was putting in and for the updated demand relating to this. We issued a connection offer to the developer in May of this year. We looked at various other applicants in the area. As part of this, we identified that there had been an upgrade through two big transformers in Portlaoise to add capacity. I am glad to say the project to increase capacity is going well. After we made the offer to the developer in May, it signed up and a connection agreement was put in place. We visited the site in June and again this week. As soon as the developer is ready with its work we will get the connections.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
My time is constrained, and I have other questions.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Your time is constrained. I am sorry, Senator, and I will let you back in the second round.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I was going to say that I can get the answer in writing, but I did ask what the policy is and not to tell me a story. What is the hierarchy in terms of demand? Perhaps I can get it in writing.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I can let Senator Higgins back in the second round.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We are happy to do this. However, because of the interest in the project in Portlaoise, it is important to be able to answer the question when it comes up . As soon as this site is ready for our electrical connection work to be done, we will work with the developer to get it done.
On the broad point about investment and connections to the network, we operate on a first-come-first-served basis, apart from the data centre direction that came from the CRU in November 2021 and that was mentioned earlier. This is in accordance with our licence. Irrespective of the sector involved, whether it be a business application, housing connection or electrification of heat and transport, they are dealt with on a first-come-first-served basis.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
On hybrid generation-----
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Senator-----
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
-----just the fact that fossil fuels-----
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Senator, to be fair-----
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Apologies. I will let others in but perhaps the witnesses could answer this later if they get the opportunity.
Mr. Dave Linehan:
To come back to the question on energy storage, battery storage and the status thereof, Senator Higgins put her finger on a crucial part of the transition. This is the enabling technology to allow us to build more wind and solar on the grid over the next five to ten years. We have a sister association, Energy Storage Ireland, and I highly recommend that the committee engage with it. It came before a previous iteration of this committee and would be happy to do so again in the future. It has an annual pipeline, with a very clear picture of where the sites for battery storage are popping up throughout the country.
Long-duration energy storage is crucial. All of the existing storage we have today is in the two- to four-hour range of battery capability. We need to get to ultra long duration storage, LDS, in the coming four to five years. It is very welcome to hear EirGrid reference consultation on LDS by the end of this year. It will be important to see these projects coming online by 2030 in order that we can start to get more and more fossil gas off the system. LDS, synchronous condensers and other complex technologies will allow us to make the transition to reduce the dispatch down. Mr. Cunniffe referenced €450 million of wasted energy last year. Deputy Heneghan mentioned in his questions importing while turning off domestic power. This is all solvable with LDS, and we really welcome progress in that regard.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
On Senator Higgins's question as to the benefits of renewables in terms of pricing and their impact on electricity bills, this is something we have been asking about for some time. Everybody can see the PSO levy on their bill. Everybody can see the cost of renewable electricity on their bill. What they cannot see on their bill is the benefit this renewable electricity brings, and what the price would be if it did not exist. We have carried out numerous studies in recent years to try to provide some transparency on this. So far since 2000, €1 billion has been saved by customers. In the past three or four years alone, hundreds of euro per year are saved on consumer bills because of renewable electricity. We would love to not need to be the party to provide this information to people. If it could be provided on everybody's electricity bill, it would be extremely welcome. We call on the CRU to prioritise.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
I will take the question on hybrid generation. The main focus we would like to see is on renewables and batteries coming together. We are looking at solar and, to come to Senator Higgins's point, if other want to connect fossil fuel behind this, then ideally from EirGrid's perspective we would want all new fossil fuel generation being renewable fuel ready. This would give us security of supply and would meet our future needs.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank all of the witnesses for their contributions and for their work to date on this very important issue. I am glad to hear they are ambitious because we need to ensure Ireland has a sufficient, secure and resilient energy supply that will meet the needs of our society and our economy now and in future, and that it is driven by green energy.
I disagree with colleagues who are critical of data centres. These centres are part of our future. They will also have a role in energy supply. Some have expressed a view there is a binary choice between investing in technology and investing in housing. That view is very short-sighted and lacks ambition. I am glad to hear from the witnesses today that they are much more ambitious. What is critical in the publication of the national development plan - and I am quite optimistic - is that the importance of the grid will be placed front and centre. If we do not address the questions on the grid and on supply coming from microgeneration or offshore renewables, we will face many challenges. For the wider public and the economy it is critical that we send these messages out.
I have several questions, to which various witnesses might want to respond. When building infrastructure it is difficult to get through the planning process. Perhaps Mr. Cunniffe might want to touch on this. What are the implications for those politicians who oppose major renewable infrastructure projects?
What are the thoughts of the witnesses on the private wires Bill and the extent to which they believe it may be able to contribute towards us meeting our targets? Where do they think it would be most effective? Does anybody want to speak about microgeneration and the impact it will have? I am always quite conscious of farmers who are keen. Deputy Heneghan mentioned people being able to produce and provide electricity into the grid. This is important. Are there other jurisdictions the witnesses can cite as good examples of rapidly growing economies that have been able to do this? I am particularly interested in Texas, which has been able to invest heavily in renewables while also investing in data centres.
Given some of our global challenges at present, what are the concerns the witnesses have about energy security? This question relates to some of the debate on LNG, energy security and, particularly, cyber-resilience. Are we confident that we are in a position to withstand any potential cyberattack? Perhaps this may be question for EirGrid, particularly as such an attack could disrupt everything.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Will we start with that?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Yes.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
We will take the question about cyber and then there is a question for Mr. Cunniffe to answer.
On cyber, one of the core roles - probably the core role - of EirGrid is the safe operation of the system. Obviously, we have to build the system out and we have to onload renewables. That is critical. Fundamentally, however, what we are doing now and what we will be doing into the future is making sure that the grid operates effectively. That is why we are incredibly careful how much stuff we bring on, how much wind we bring on and how the demand behaves. We have to make sure it is stable. We have seen what has happened in Iberia. That is why we also have to keep some conventional plant on the system. Even if we had tonnes of renewables, that keeps stability. It is called inertia. It makes sure the system operates safely.
The other thing is that everything is more technological and is IT driven, so we have invested very heavily in cyber, protection and recovery, mainly protection, and tools to make sure we can track and see things coming on.
As regards the system operating safely, there are two things. One is cyber and cyberattacks. That is critical/ We have done a huge amount of work on it. We work with the national cyber council-----
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Could Mr. Marley provide indication as to how many cyberattacks on the system EirGrid might experience? I appreciate that some of that information may be confidential.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
I will not do the scale. We have thousands daily, but there are different levels. We scale and rate them. We are critical infrastructure, a critical operator, so a lot of effort goes into this. There is a great deal of effort at Government level as well - working with us on it. They are daily, hourly and minute-by-minute attacks, but we are-----
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
And data centre infrastructure is critical to that.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
Yes. We are secure. The other thing is that when we bring on new demand and new sources of supply, including renewable supply, that causes issues as well in the system and we have to do it safely. We can set very aggressive targets to do things quicker and bring on more renewables quicker but we will do that only when we are very confident that the system will stay stable. We have increased it from 60% to 75%. If we are going to increase it to 90%, we will do that in a very controlled, managed way. It is too important.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I thank the Deputy for his questions. I might touch on a couple of the points he made.
As regards planning and opposition we have seen, I referred earlier to the fact that we have seen a really strong past 12 months in terms of planning for wind energy generation. We have had nearly 1 GW of projects through planning in the past 12 months because of investment in resources in An Coimisiún Pleanála. As regards opposition to major infrastructure, if you look back at the past ten to 15 years, a number of large-scale projects were proposed for grid infrastructure which did not have the political support they should have had. Had those projects proceeded, our country could be in a much stronger position when it comes to our electricity grid and our capability to manage renewables generation and increasing demand growth. That is just a comment to the effect that we need to back and politically support grid infrastructure. It has to be done at national and, critically, local level.
In response to the Deputy's question about the private wires Bill, the private wires policy was published just yesterday evening. On first read, it seems to be a very progressive move. It is something our industry has certainly been very supportive of. The next step and a key thing we believe is critical is getting through the primary legislation element of it as quickly as possible. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, referred yesterday to getting that done by the second half of next year. We want to see the resources put in to make sure that the primary legislation can be changed. The second thing is that it puts a lot of responsibility on the CRU to administrate many of the processes in the private wires Bill. We know that it is resource-constrained for the existing job it is working on when it comes to renewable energy and electricity storage, so getting it resourced up to be able to deliver on that and on the private wires Bill will be vital.
The Deputy also asked about any good international examples. I recognise that this relates to system operation. There are a number of really good international examples of accelerating renewable energy at the moment. Germany has done a fantastic job of implementing new EU legislation for planning for renewable projects. It has seen increases in the hundreds of percentage points on the amount of renewable generation it is connecting. Then we can look to neighbours like the UK for the job they have done in connecting offshore wind energy projects. This is something the entire committee wants in the context of the ability to deliver offshore wind energy as fast as possible. It is something we are all working on. We are happy to facilitate a visit to an offshore wind farm for the committee during the present term over the coming years. I ask the committee reach out to us on that.
Mr. Brian Brady:
I might cover small-scale, mini and micro, which the Deputy asked about as well. There is 1.8 GW of solar on the grid right now. Of that, 974 MW is utility scale but, amazingly, almost as much comes from rooftop solar and small-scale generation, which represents 843 MW. Both numbers are incredible when you consider that all this has happened in the past three years. As regards rooftop solar and normal domestic houses, that is growing at roughly 1,000 customers a week, which is incredible. It is adding 30 MW per month extra if that rate keeps going. That is some context for the Deputy in terms of the current number and the rate at which it is growing. He also mentioned farming at the end of that question. A quick search of the web will give him brilliant information on it. The TAMS grant gives great information on the support services available for it. There is information there about the adjustments and the planning requirements around them so you can facilitate that around that as well. It is a great opportunity for farmers to get involved in rooftop solar.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank all our participants for giving us the benefit of their expertise and their time. I would like to move on to private wires for a minute because Deputy Byrne raised it. Maybe this is more for EirGrid and ESB Networks. Have they any concerns about the development of private wires? This in some respects amounts to part-privatisation of what was previously a totally State-controlled, State-run and equitably distributed network. From that perspective, do they have any concerns about the private wires legislation? I know it was published only very recently. I do not know whether they have any view as to whether the type of legislation being brought forward would allay any of their concerns.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I might comment on that from the point of view of ESB Networks. Even though there is the announcement this week about private wires, there has been an ongoing consultation process on this, working closely with the Department, going right back to 2023. As part of a consultation at that time, we put in a detailed submission about private wires. That submission is on our website. It is a 50-page document that sets out a range of factors to support the introduction in a targeted way in order to support, for example, accelerating renewable projects. We have been engaged right the way through this. We are supportive of the direction the Government wants to go on private wires. Certain things would be foundational around this, including having a strong legal framework. There is also a public safety aspect in the context of the possibility of people building and owning a private network and how that would be managed. We run a "dial before you dig" service. Those are the kinds of issues. It is also a matter of ensuring that the development of private wires does not impact the efficient delivery of the wider network for all consumers. Looking at the history of the network going back many decades, the idea of bringing it under one co-ordinated organisation was to allow efficient delivery of that. There is definitely a place for, and we support the introduction of, private wires. They will allow individual developers to make direct connections between renewable, project and a demand - for example, a factory - and we will continue to work with the Government to implement the policy.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Does EirGrid wish to comment on private wires?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
Yes. I will probably repeat what Mr. Tarrant said. We have been very engaged in this process. It did not pop up just yesterday. We have made a submission and we are very supportive of it. Again, as long as it is done in the right place, in the right way and to the right standards, we are very comfortable with it.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
On the broader issue of the network, we can build all the offshore wind we want but if we cannot connect it up to our network and distribute it throughout the country, there is no point. What do the witnesses see as the practical impediments to the enhancement and expansion of the grid? Mr. Tarrant spoke earlier about the need for local area plans to include zoning for electricity substations. He referred to landowner access. Are there any other issues like that? Is the planning system playing a significant role? Is the proliferation of one-off housing around the country impacting how our network grows and develops? I would be interested in the witnesses' thoughts on that.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We are in a new phase of investment in electricity infrastructure. There is a major step change coming in PR6 up to 2030 and beyond that. There are some ingredients that will help deliver that infrastructure. We mentioned in our opening statement things like having certainty for our supply chain. We depend not only on recruiting our own resources but also on our contract partners and their having sight of these investment programmes for the years ahead so that they can invest in, for example, plant and machinery, resources and developing their own skills and capabilities. Having regulatory certainty around the investment programme is fundamental and is what gives the supply chain confidence.
Another area is the acceleration of key substations - high-voltage substations - that need to be built in the coming years. One of the matters we have been in discussions with a range of stakeholders on is access to land to build those substations. Before going into planning, the issue is getting access to land, particularly in urban areas where we are seeing the biggest growth. We have been talking with various agencies about getting access, where we can, to State land to help accelerate these projects. There is a real urgency needed in delivering this infrastructure as quickly as possible because of the level of demand growth we are seeing.
These are a couple of the concerning factors, as well as continuing to manage the supply chain. We have seen some lead time for key equipment like electrical transformers being pushed out. The positive thing in PR6 is that there is a clear plan for what we need to do, both at transmission and distribution levels, to invest now and see the graph going up in the level of delivery. That is where we are focused now.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
Some things have been done already. We are fortunate that, like the ESB, we have multi-year funding through the price review process, which is working. The regulator is constrained on resources but it is a very well respected regulatory regime. That is really good - not every country has this - and the regime works well. The new planning legislation is not perfect, but it is positive.
The main barriers for us are once we get planning, even for the large, critical projects, are access and engaging with landowners. This is becoming increasingly difficult and challenging. We need political support at all levels in this regard. That is important because politicians are influential in local areas when, alongside ourselves, explaining projects. We do a huge amount of public engagement. Engaging and working with the political system to explain why this is critical infrastructure and is needed is important.
Mr. Tarrant covered substations, not lines, and access to land in urban areas, particularly public land. It would be good if we could get that planned. Overall, there needs to be clearer interaction with businesses - there is already a lot of interaction with businesses and developers - on where they want to locate. It is not always a case of them saying they want to go here, here or here. It is more plan led and there is more interaction so that, whether it is a housing stage, business or generation, it is done in a way that we all know what is happening and can direct them into the right locations as much as possible. This would also really help.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I have one last question relating to the level of political involvement. What is the organisation hoping for from the national development plan next week, in the context of political support and investment, to make this happen?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
The national level of the political system is incredibly supportive of what is being done. We saw that even through the price review. The money made available to deliver critical infrastructure will be there. Obviously, we would like more in different places but it will be there. It is also an agile process where, if we get more done, more will be released to us. The commitment is there and there are several task forces set up by the Government that we are involved in and seem to be working incredibly well, from what I am seeing. This should help unlock things. The big focus is on the barriers and how we can unlock them rather than just talk about them. There are particular steps that need to be taken and political support is good at national level. At local level, we need more engagement to get support tighter.
Noel O'Donovan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank all the participants. They have all been knowledgeable and the level of expertise in their sectors is evident in their passion.
If I am honest, I am fearful of the grid situation at present. I live in west Cork where we have many towns and villages constrained by Uisce Éireann development. It is tough to deal with young families who can no longer build in their towns and villages. Given the issues in our grid and substations, what level of confidence can the witnesses give to people listening in that we will not have similar issues to those we have with Uisce Éireann? Yes, there is support at national level and we all wish to see that in the national development plan, but what can the witnesses tell the people of Ireland listening in today to assure them that we will not have issues like we have seen in other infrastructural areas?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We are in a new phase of investment now. The electricity network, between transmission and distribution, has served the country up to now but we are in a new phase because of huge increases in demand that are coming, whether that is from housing, continued economic growth, population increases, climate action plan targets like electrification, heat and transport, and sectors we have mentioned that are large users. We need to see investment, and I hope that investment will see engagement on the capacity issues we can and do have in certain areas of our network.
There will be a period between now and when that investment is delivered and we have to deliver those projects as quickly as we can. Where possible, we will deliver interim solutions to ensure we have capacity right across the country. There is a period of making sure that we deliver the key infrastructure coming with these large projects. To give the committee an idea of the distribution network, we have approximately 30 large HV substations to be delivered in the PR6 period. As Ms O'Shea mentioned earlier, this is on top of 231 transmission projects and there is also a range of other distribution projects. There will be interim solutions needed in different parts of the country. I cannot speak specifically today about west Cork but, in general, there will be targeted measures needed in different places to continue investing and allowing people to connect to the electricity network across the country.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
On that, there have been issues in Portlaoise regarding a particular black spot there. Are there currently any other black spots in this country where planning is not going to be supported? Mr. Tarrant also mentioned 30 substations. How many of these substations are likely to enter planning in the short term?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
There is a plan to deliver these substations over the PR6 period. They are likely to be delivered more towards the second half of PR6 than the first because they take time to deliver in terms of bringing them through the planning process, undertaking procurement and the subsequent construction period.
On the wider piece of capacity constraints on the network, there are places on the network where there is limited capacity today. We are working on those. These are areas where we have seen probably the biggest population growth. If we look back over the past ten years, Portlaoise is an example of this, with population growth of more than 16% between the censuses in 2011 and 2022 and continuing at pace. There are other towns like that but taking the big urban centres, particularly north Dublin and Dublin West, there are particular issues we are working on in conjunction with EirGrid. There are also other areas across the network.
We publish a capacity heat map on an ongoing basis. This outlines where there is limited capacity and gives customers a sense of where those areas are. We encourage anybody looking to connect to the network, particularly housing developers, to come and talk to us early so we can work with them on their needs. That is continuing.
Noel O'Donovan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Staying on this point, in Uisce Éireann's delivery process, the big projects can take five to seven years to deliver. That is a fear in terms of timelines. If the level of funding required to solve these 30 areas or additional areas comes through in the national development plan, what is the delivery process timeline for ensuring those 30 areas are covered by electricity?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
This is about enhancing and building additional capacity compared to where we are today. They are multi-year projects. Based on the current process, all of these projects would go through the SID process with An Coimisiún Pleanála. It takes time for these big infrastructural projects to go through planning, procurement and delivery on site. We are talking four, five or six years, depending on the timeline. We have to look at every component of the critical path of these projects to see what can be done to accelerate their delivery. This is crucial infrastructure and we are seeing big demands on the electricity infrastructure today. That is part of the discussions ongoing, for example, with the accelerating infrastructure task force and other forums where this critical infrastructure is being discussed so we can progress it at pace. That is what is needed.
Mr. Justin Moran:
I will pick up on a point Deputy Byrne made earlier. It is really important that it be understood that opposing grid infrastructure is not a victimless crime. To look at Portlaoise, which has been discussed a couple of times, the Laois-Kilkenny grid reinforcement got planning permission in 2014. EirGrid has done a very significant amount of work to get it over the line but it is still not finished. Part of the reason for that was opposition in the area and in the community. We need to see public support for the delivery of grid infrastructure to ensure that, when representatives are sitting across the table from a young family who want to build a house, nobody is raising any concerns over the electricity grid and the family can get the power they need affordably and cleanly.
Noel O'Donovan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
In my last ten seconds, I will note that, with Uisce Éireann infrastructure, preparatory work was not done for that consultation with local authorities and national bodies with regard to funding. I do not want the same situation to arise with our electricity infrastructure because it is our communities and our young people who will suffer. I am delighted to hear that it is a priority and that work is ongoing.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses for their contributions. This has been very insightful and helpful to us as a committee. I hope we can make these conversations count and that we can deliver on the potential that exists, especially through the NDP.
I am from County Mayo. Mayo has played, is playing and has the potential to play a significant part in renewable energy generation. As the witnesses will be familiar with, we have the Oweninny wind farm, which I believe is the largest wind farm in Ireland. In places, the wind energy generation in Mayo is as strong as offshore, which is incredibly significant. It is important that we bring people along with us on the journey and that we communicate and make clear the net gains, the positives and the potential for our society when we do this right and do it well.
We spoke about political frustrations in the process that had been a barrier to development. EirGrid had proposed to upgrade to a 110 kV north Connacht line from Ballaghaderreen to Ballina. It was during the Covid pandemic and there was a lot of discontent because a lot of it was going to be in overhead lines. However, through good engagement, dialogue and work with the community, that was all put to bed. The community was listened to and the project is advancing very well. That is a good example. However, going back to the point regarding political obstruction, a 400 kV line was proposed over a decade ago. A 110 kV line is now being delivered as opposed to that 400 kV line. We talk about data centres being relocated and preferred in the west. The west coast has a significant role to play in harnessing renewable energy. I think of the Asahi site in Killala, which many of the witnesses will be familiar with. A transatlantic fibre optic cable lands on the site. Planning permission is in place for two data centres and there is a proposal for renewable energy biomass.
I have two questions. In reply to Deputy Byrne, Mr. Cunniffe mentioned the lack of political support. What exactly does that mean, practically speaking? Was it a local councillor or councillors? Was it Deputies? Was there a lack of vocal support for projects, which can sometimes happen? There is too much at stake for the country in terms of future investment. We need to understand that and make clear our support for these transformational projects for the countryside. I would like to understand that.
On the Mayo question, what are the constraints limiting investment and projects in Mayo? Can the witnesses give us any information on the Asahi site and grid connections for projects and proposals on that site?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
In a previous life, I worked on that 400 kV project in Mayo and I experienced some of that lack of public support, as did some of my EirGrid colleagues here. My colleague Mr. Moran had similar experiences with the Grid Link project in the south of Ireland. A number of very large-scale infrastructure projects were proposed as part of the Grid25 programme. I will let colleagues in EirGrid describe that in more detail. Many of those were not progressed because, about ten years ago, there was not political support at national and local levels for many of those projects. Had those projects been delivered, our country would be in a much stronger position to grow demand, expand renewables and take offshore wind power from off our west coast, including Mayo. We are still experiencing that today with the delivery of the North-South interconnector. Colleagues in EirGrid and ESB Networks are doing a great job in trying to get that project over the line but there is continued political opposition to it. That is absolutely vital infrastructure for our island to progress and to grow our economy.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
When Mr. Cunniffe says "political opposition", does he mean at a local council level? Practically speaking, what does the opposition look like? Is it at Oireachtas level? Is it local councillors? Is it the community? What exactly is it?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
Perhaps colleagues can comment a little bit further but, from the outside looking in, we see general consensus that growing our electrical grid is vital for the country but, when it comes down to local politics and elections for TDs and local councillors, it is often challenged. It is part of our political system and needs to be taken into account but, as my colleague Mr. Moran has said, there needs to be a recognition that, if electricity infrastructure is not progressed in people's areas, they will lose out on opportunities for growth.
On the Senator's Mayo question, I am aware of numerous wind farms in Mayo that have planning permission to develop but the grid is not capable of taking them right now. They may be able to benefit from the private wires legislation I referenced earlier but continuing to grow, expand and develop our energy infrastructure is going to be vital, particularly for the west coast, to be able to progress. I say that as a fellow Connacht man.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Does EirGrid want to comment on that point?
Ms Siobhán O'Shea:
With regard to the north Connacht line, I will go back to the 400 kV station that was originally proposed for the area under Grid West. Many lessons have been learned regarding public engagement since then. EirGrid has significantly increased its public engagement, particularly in the last five years. That has been really helpful with projects coming through since. With regard to north Connacht, that is a very significant project. It includes a 100 kV underground cable. It will release approximately 475 MW of constraint for renewables in the area. Even on that project, there was a lot of local engagement. There were concerns about disruption to Swinford and Foxford. There was an awful lot of engagement through the municipal districts and local communities and the routes were changed. Work was also done with TII because its infrastructure and ours coalesced where cables were run underground. A lot of work was done with TII to achieve the best possible solution and outcome for everybody. That project is well progressed now. It is in delivery with our construction partners, the ESB. It is due for energisation in 2028.
On constraints in the Mayo area, while I cannot comment on any specific customer in the area, we are developing a number of projects in the north west. This will be right down from Letterkenny. We will be going out to consultation in the area in the north west in September. We will be very happy to engage further either in advance of that or during the consultation period.
Mr. Brian Brady:
There are actually five elements to the north Connacht project. A number of those elements have started. Not only will it release capacity for renewable energy in the west, including Mayo, but it will also add capacity in the Ballaghaderreen area. It is a good example of an integrated project that will bring demand capacity as well. The main trunk of this, outside the overhead line work and the station work, is obviously the cable project. That was put out to tender as a design-and-build project. The responses are being evaluated at the moment and the tender will be awarded in the coming months. As Ms O'Shea has said, it is due to be energised in 2028, or 2029 at the latest. The Senator will probably know the route. It goes from Ballaghaderreen up the N5 and around by Charlestown. It then takes a right turn up the N26 out to the Moy substation in Ballina.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I apologise for being a bit late. I hope I do not duplicate or go over what was already stated.
Recently, the Secretary General of the Department stated that we are having to even think about prioritising what the social need of the demand for energy is and whether it is housing and AI, and we are going to have to think much more about managing this demand. What are the thoughts from the witnesses from EirGrid and ESB on those comments? Are they comments with which they would agree?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
We are planning for the overall system at the transmission level. We look at all needs that are coming up. That is what we put into our price review. That is why the investment is multiples of what it was in the past five years. We have invested really heavily in the past five years. It is not just happening in the next five years, but there are multiples being invested over the next five years in particular. We look at the overall demand. We look at all the scenarios that potentially could occur and that is what we are planning for our grid, and we are building the grid out to meet those demands in line with Government policy around large energy users and housing and everything that is required, including electrification, heat pumps and EVs. We feed all that in, and that is what we plan our system around.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Mr. Marley has no concerns with regard to the growth of data centre demand versus what we will need for housing.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Do the witnesses from the ESB want to say anything on that?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
There are two strategies set out by Government around digitalisation and decarbonisation, and both of them need investment. A data centre direction was issued by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, back in November 2021. That set certain criteria around future data centres connecting. It consulted on a proposed decision about our direction back in February of this year. We will await the outcome of that. However, when we published our business plan in November of last year for price review, PR, 6 we made assumptions based on the current connected or contracted data centres. If there is Government policy around connecting more additional infrastructure, my assessment is that additional infrastructure will be needed to cater for any kind of further growth. We have, as Mr. Marley described it, put in investment based on projections around demands and needs, particularly in key areas of the network that need high-voltage substations and other investment.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
As Mr. Tarrant said, PR 6 only factored in the current demand of data centres, so there is no incorporation of any future demand. Therefore, if any more data centres are given planning permission or operating on the grid, that investment will not apply for those. Is that correct?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We had to make certain assumptions on the way in with our business plan. We had to take the current direction that was set out from November 2021. We based our investment on the contracted data centre capacity that was already included. However, we are always willing and able to invest to expand that as needed as well as investment for other sectors.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Currently, the investment only looks to the housing projections and the current contracted data centre usage.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Perfect. Does Mr. Tarrant think there is going to be any difficulty and would he like to see a prioritisation? My understanding is that the ability to prioritise energy for social purposes above and beyond data centres was raised. Is it correct that ESB Networks requested the CRU look into that? Did ESB Networks raise the issues? This may not be Mr. Tarrant's unit directly. The CRU report states that "ESB Networks has highlighted risks that, in the absence of an adequate policy response, the potential level of data centre demand could significantly impact its ability to accommodate demand connections required to support Government policy targets." It goes on to state that "where network infrastructure upgrades have been identified to deliver future needs ... [the] capacity [should] be reserved to ensure the successful delivery of national priorities, such as housing, infrastructure and enterprise, in a balanced manner." That is something I suppose ESB Networks is worried about, that it does not have the ability to prioritise whether a housing development or housing gets connection versus a data centre. The response from the CRU at that point was "that it does not have sufficient statutory powers to prioritise certain Government policy objectives over others". Is that something Mr. Tarrant would like the CRU to have so that if it does get to the point where ESB Networks is having to make decisions between data centres and housing, it can actually prioritise where energy goes?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
There are a number of comments to make on that. The first thing is that the data centre direction that was issued in 2021 is the guiding set of rules for both ourselves and EirGrid as system operators. The second thing is under our licence, we are obliged to operate on a first come, first served basis and except for a direction like that, we do not have any latitude to prioritise one sector over another. It is important that we do not discriminate between different types of connecting parties. Anything that would need to be done outside of that would really be for policymakers, whether it be a regulator or at governmental level, to decide on anything to do with prioritisation. We are aware there has been legislation or regulatory decisions have been made in the likes of the Netherlands where they have capacity constraints, but anything in that territory would be for policymakers. It is important to say as well that from a network point of view, whether it be transmission or distribution, our aim in investing would be to meet the needs of all customers so that we can progress both industrial strategy and continued general economic growth and social development of the country through housing.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I understand that ESB Networks is working within the framework that is in place . Is it something it would like put in place so that it does have that latitude to make those decisions if Government policy dictated?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
In the first instance, it is back to policy. It is not a question for us to really comment on whether it is appropriate for us to have it or not. It is a wider issue around policy. Going back to the investment, we are looking to invest to grow capacity in the network to meet the needs of our growing country and that is where we would like to see the focus continued - investment to be able to meet those needs. Ultimately, however, anything around reserving capacity for certain types of customers would be a matter for policy.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Tarrant. I will ask a couple of questions from my perspective. Mr. Marley mentioned the situation in the Iberian Peninsula and the risk. Has EirGrid risk assessed that? There has been very little said in terms of what happened there and the risk of it happening here. Has EirGrid risk assessed that?
Mr. Cathal Marley:
It would not be just as a result of that. We risk assess that all the time. As I said, that is why we are very careful on how much renewable we can bring on to the system. We also look at how the demand on the system is acting, so if it is acting in a way we think is going to cause issues, we react pretty quickly to that. That is an ongoing thing. The European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity, ENTSO-E, is doing a detailed review of that. It is a European transmission operator group. One of our experts is on that panel. Hopefully, at some point, a detailed report will come out of it. What we have got so far is quite high level coming out of the transmission system operator, TSO. We cannot rely on that because what we need is to see exactly what happened in terms of the renewables, the demand, the generators and how everything happened in that 27 seconds, which is how long it took from when the first trip took place to the total blackout. It was quite quick. We really need to see the detail of what happened there. We have a good bit of information, but we could not say what exactly happened.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
That will come from that report.
Mr. Cathal Marley:
That will come from that report. There is a lot of media stuff out there but, really, the devil is in the detail. We need to see what actions they took because they did not sit on their hands; they took actions. We need to see whether those actions made things better or worse and then what they did next. We would actually need to see the absolute details to see what happened.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Marley. With regard to what Deputy Heneghan raised then in terms of long duration battery storage, there is a kind of frustration with the punters generally that, effectively, renewable energy is being buried or lost and fossil is effectively making up the balance, which is how they would see it, because of that storage capacity. Where are we in terms of the storage capacity? Is it realistic? What is the capacity? When it comes to the nuts and bolts, is it coming? These guys raised it as well in terms that it is essential.
Mr. Brian Brady:
This is really just to say what is there at the moment. We have to go back to Turlough Hill first off for energy storage because we are talking about all energy storage. In 1974, it was just under 300 MW, but really it is the growth of what we have seen in the past six years. In the past six years of energy storage, there has been a little bit over 750 MW of energy storage brought on the system. That has come from 19 connections or 19 sites.
That is the current stage. Nothing has been connected yet this year but we see three projects in front of us for this year of 19 MW. Two of those are very close to commissioning or are in the commissioning stage so I would say we will see them in the next few weeks or a couple of months. Three is what we see in front of us for this year.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
The witnesses mentioned TAMS. Do they have any thoughts on it? Farmers cannot effectively feed their electricity off their solar panels. I know it is not an issue directly here but do the witnesses have any thoughts on that? It seems a bit unfair.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
TAMS is a great scheme for farmers installing solar panels. The grant level is 60% of the capital cost up to €90,000. In TAMS 3, tranche 8 is open for applicants. It is designed for self consumption and it makes a significant amount of sense, particularly for dairy farmers because of the electricity load they have. If people want to export, there is grid reinforcement work to do around that so there is the option - maybe not with TAMS support because the scheme is designed for self consumption. In general, if people are looking to export and if they are in a rural area where the network needs to be upgraded, in general, they have to take the cost of those upgrades.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
This is work on the grid before-----
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
We will do a second round. We are tight on time so we will do two minutes apiece. I remind witnesses that we are looking for barriers. What I am seeing based on the submissions and what I am hearing is that for ESB Networks, the main issue is resource constraints, which sounds like manpower. From EirGrid, I am hearing that access to land, public engagement and getting that right are the barriers. Wind Energy Ireland is pretty clear that the issue is with the grid, its capacity and the storage issue we mentioned. Could members consider those issues because this is where we are trying to get to?
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I understand what the witnesses are saying. We have unprecedented levels of dispatch down and when one turns off the turbines, we do need more batteries. We have all said that. I thank ESB Networks for its response to Storm Éowyn. The PSO for customers will go through the roof if everything is overhead lines. Storm Éowyn did not take out transmission lines. It only knocked distribution lines. We all know that.
The witnesses did not really answer my question about why we are still importing UK energy rather than using Irish energy. I understand they gave the road analogy. I studied mechanical engineering for six years focusing on data centre energy utilisation. I understand how the energy system works. Deputy Ahern spoke about private wires legislation. The witnesses spoke about the public safety aspect. When brought in, private wires will still have to comply with Irish safety standards in line with the CRU. I was hoping that the CRU would appear at this meeting as it would have been very beneficial. If we have another meeting, that is something we should push for.
The benefit of public session is that the public is watching us. I know the witnesses publish a lot of the expenditure they have and things they have done. Is there anything they have built regarding underground cables or overhead transmission lines that has gone over budget a lot that they think the public should be aware of?
Dr. Liam Ryan:
When we see the flow on the interconnector, we are importing based on lower prices from the UK than we are seeing in Ireland. From a market perspective, the price has been set in the wholesale electricity market generally by gas generators happening on the system. In real time, we are seeing that at times, we need to keep five units on the system to make sure we have stability. We are targeting to try to reduce the number of conventional units we have on the system. From a European perspective, when we look at the prioritisation, the interconnector is a higher priority than national renewables. This is a change to European policy if we wanted to do something different in that region. In essence, we are trying to increase the amount of renewables on the system by increasing non-synchronous generation such as wind and solar that we can potentially operate going from 75% to much higher than that. That actually helps. I hope that answers the question.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I have two points to add to what Dr. Ryan said. Regarding long-duration energy storage, if the market sends the signals for those projects, they will be there. Many of those types of technologies are going into planning for multi-day storage so we can utilise the dispatch down energy referenced by the Deputy and use when we do not have wind or solar available. Regarding the interconnector flows, one of the biggest challenges we have here is the fact that our wholesale market prices are too high. For a number of years, we have been calling for a cost of renewable electricity task force to see how we can look at the overall bid stacker costs of developing renewable energy projects, identify the policies that sit within those costs and see what we can do to minimise and bring them down so that we can make renewable energy even more affordable for consumers today. It would be brilliant to see this Government take it on board.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
When I mentioned private wires and the need to manage the safety of them, I was not raising it as a potential barrier. It is just one of these things that will be managed as we implement Government policy. I am confident that we will have a good way of doing that to make this policy work in practice. Projects can take longer than originally planned for a variety of reasons. It can be a risk of budgets going over what was originally planned. The Laois-Kilkenny project is an example. I believe that project got planning permission back in 2014 or 2015. It has taken longer so the costs are higher. Around costs, we are overseen by the CRU. When submissions are made around variations on budgets and costs, the CRU scrutinises those to make sure they are efficient and brings in consultants to review them. That is an example of a project that might have been delivered earlier but because it has taken longer, the cost would be higher.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I was going to ask the witnesses from Wind Energy Ireland about how Ireland has been an expensive place to produce renewables and what we can do but Mr. Cunniffe just answered that question. We had legislation about a renewable energy task force. Is there anything else that the Government can do to reduce the cost of producing energy?
My next question is for ESB Networks and concerns standing charges. We have the PSO levy. A lot of people fear that if we move away from the international gas markets to renewables, those costs will be reduced but the cost of the standing charges will nearly make up for all of that. It was mentioned in light of the storm that consumers would have to pay for the restoration efforts in their bills. Is this going to be the case? Will there be more standing charges in the future? What is happening with Derrybrien wind farm?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
We have been calling for a cost of renewables task force since 2020. It was predicated on a report we did in 2020 called Saving Money, which looked into the cost of developing renewable electricity in Ireland. In different types of projects, we identified savings that could be achieved through changes to our planning system, our grid system, taxation and how county councils set rates. There are a number of various policy levers we can pull. We are investigating a refresh of that report given that it is five years on.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is it about who overseeing the planning?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
It involves resourcing and various aspects of the wind energy guidelines that we still have not seen published the publication of which we are calling for.
Having scientifically based wind energy guidelines come out as quickly as possible will help to reduce the cost of developing renewable electricity.
Mr. Dave Linehan:
Deputy Daly asked specifically about how we can reduce costs. Once a project has planning consent and its grid connection, it needs to go into an auction. Every year the Department runs a renewable energy support scheme auction where projects compete. They enter the auction and then the best value projects are cleared and they are offered contracts over a 15-year period as it stands at present. Every year the Government consults on the terms and conditions for these auctions. Every auction design is slightly different as are their terms and conditions. Every year we submit detailed responses to the Department on how it can evolve the auction designs to try to make them more competitive and try to increase volume. More volume means more competition and lower price. Once we clear the planning hurdles, which as Mr. Cunniffe mentioned earlier are starting to come through, and once we get the grid connection regime working, it will be about how to make changes in the auction design itself so the best value and best projects are cleared. A very simple measure could be, for example, increasing the tenure of support from the current 15 years to 20 years, as we saw in the offshore auction. There are small changes that can be made in the auction design itself. We will be covering these in the rerun of the saving money report in the coming months.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
A few questions have been asked and I will go back to the cost of operating the network. To go back to last November, when we submitted our business plan for PR6, the cost of the distribution network at that time for a typical domestic customer was approximately €254, the overall bill for a typical customer at the time was approximately €1,900 per annum, and the distribution costs were approximately €250. The overall bill has reduced slightly since, depending on the supplier. What happens regarding the charges for the distribution network is that we invoice the suppliers, and the supply companies then decide how they allocate this in terms of the offerings they put out to customers, regarding the size of the standing charge versus variable charges.
In terms of the cost of the investment in PR6, we estimated, based on the assumptions we had at the time and the investment programme, that on average the distribution element of the bill would see an increase of approximately €80 per annum across the PR6 period. It would be a slightly lower increase at the beginning in 2026 and then a bit higher towards the end. Ultimately, it will be a matter for the CRU to decide. It has published its draft determination, which is out for public consultation. This not only includes the distribution network element of the bill but also transmission and other elements that make up the overall unit cost. We are very aware that every euro counts for customers. A large number of customers are in arrears, if we look at the overall statistics in the energy sector. We are very focused on being efficient as an organisation as we deliver investment.
Storm Éowyn was mentioned. The decision regarding the costs of Storm Éowyn would be for the tariff year 2026 to 2027. It is a matter for the CRU, and it will be decided in the coming 12 months or longer. I am not able to say any more on this today.
Derrybrien is for another part of the ESB. ESB Networks is a regulated separate part of the ESB with a separate regulatory licence. It is the generation and trading part of the business. We are happy to follow up separately to make sure Deputy Daly gets a briefing on Derrybrien.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I want to go back to the question I asked earlier on large energy users. Given that ordinary consumers and small and medium businesses face an increase of 21% in the price of electricity and data centres are getting reduction, and when we take into account the 29% of families and households experiencing energy poverty, I want to look at the sustainability of this situation. Is Ireland biting off more than it can chew by attracting more data centres? I am a member of the infrastructure and national development plan committee. In my constituency there is DART+ to Kilcock and Celbridge. People are looking for more EV chargers. There is growing regional demand without attracting any more data centres. Do the witnesses think this is sustainable, when we have 29% of households experiencing energy poverty? Their bills are increasing and those of data centres are reducing, and it does not seem right and fair.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
In terms of the overall cost for customers, from our point of view as a network company what we influence is the cost on the distribution network and an ingredient of the transmission network investment. We see in PR6 a need to grow this investment to meet the needs of communities and electrification projects such as those Deputy Cronin has mentioned, and to see wider investment to support economic and social growth in the country. Network investment is part of the overall bill. The biggest determinant on the cost of electricity in Ireland is the cost of gas. The cost of gas dictates the cost on the wholesale market which, in turn, influences overall energy costs for consumers. We saw this after the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the energy crisis.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Decoupling gas.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
The growth of renewables gives not only a renewable source of electricity but also more cost certainty because of auction pricing.
If we take the competing demands, which is one of the elements of Deputy Cronin's question on the various demands for electricity infrastructure, not only is there demand for growth in the likes of renewables to consume more electricity by consumers but the infrastructure is also key. If we are to continue the growth of EV charging, businesses looking to decarbonise, housing with electric heat pumps and EV charging capacity and, in general, wider growth electrification of transport, whether it be for the bus network, the extension of DART+ or MetroLink, there is considerable growth in the electricity network and this is where we need to continue to invest. Our role is to do this in an efficient way to give best value to customers and to deliver the outputs that customers need in terms of this infrastructure.
Mr. Brian Brady:
I want to correct something Deputy Heneghan said earlier. He mentioned Storm Éowyn and that there were no faults on the transmission networks. That is not correct. As the transmission system works at a higher standard of redundancy, there is redundant supply available to restore power. Customers would not see the effect of it but certainly we had transmission crews deployed during the storm, particularly in Mayo and Galway, to make repairs on the transition network.
Mr. Dave Linehan:
On the topic of energy poverty, I want to raise the EnergyCloud initiative, and I know a number of committee members are familiar with it. I am one of the board members of EnergyCloud and representatives from EirGrid and ESB are also involved in the initiative. It is a simple measure that targets the households among the 29% that has been referenced. Alan Wyley, the CEO, has been engaging with some committee members on it. It is a very positive initiative. What it needs now is a systematic approach to how it all ties together and can scale up. We are working with a number of approved housing bodies at present. Several hundred houses have smart devices installed, whereby they can flick a switch and otherwise curtailed energy is rediverted towards heating hot water tanks for these families. We could look at scaling up this project as it is a very clear intervention that would help.
Noel O'Donovan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I want to come back to Mr. Cunniffe and our offshore energy potential. I represent coastal and rural communities and the potential is enormous. Will Mr. Cunniffe detail the barriers? He mentioned earlier that he does not see us achieving the 2030 targets given our strategic approach. What are the barriers? What countries has he visited or seen which do offshore energy well? How do they support their coastal communities? How has he seen coastal communities change? I ask him to give me a vision of what it could be, if we get to that stage.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I thank Senator O'Donovan for the question. All of the issues our industry currently faces are set out in detail in the offshore wind action plan, and I am happy to send it to Senator O'Donovan after the meeting. They vary depending on what phase the project is at. The big barrier to delivering phase 1 projects quickly is getting them through the planning system as quickly as possible. This would involve resourcing not only An Coimisiún Pleanála but also the State agencies that are vital to the planning process and statutory consultees.
Another really big topic that is important for the phase 1 projects is the delivery of port infrastructure on the island of Ireland. Continued investment in Cork port has been referenced but it is also an issue for other ports, to be able to build these projects from Ireland. As we move to later phases, things like getting certainty for grid capacity, auction design and south coast DMAP sites is really important. It is great to see the Tonn Nua auction progressing this year and we have certainty on grid capacity there. That will be off the south-east coast. Looking at the longer term, at fixed and floating wind potential off our west coast, I referenced the national DMAP, making sure the right level of resourcing is in the Department to be able to carry out surveys, to engage with local communities around the coastline and to get that DMAP published in 2027. I could take the Senator through numerous other barriers but I will leave it there.
Noel O'Donovan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Can we reverse the current trend if Mr. Cunniffe's fear is not making 2030? Can we make changes to policy?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
It simply is not physically possible to meet 2030 targets at the moment. The development timeline for offshore wind energy is ten years. We think that it will likely be the early to mid-2030s by the time we hit 5 GW of capacity. We can do things to accelerate those projects and deliver them in 2030 or 2031. That is what we need to focus on right now. The Senator referred to countries that are doing this really well. The UK has rolled out offshore wind energy really successfully over the past decade. I visited towns in Scotland, for example, that were desolate. There were old oil and gas facilities, populations had diminished and schools closed. They are now reopening because there are workers on offshore wind farms in coastal communities in rural areas. That is what we want to see in Ireland.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
We spoke a bit about the reliability and security of our energy grid earlier. Someone mentioned Portugal having about 70% of its electricity coming from renewables. Someone said that might be a bit high or could be perceived as risky. Is there an ideal energy mix for our grid when it comes to reliability, security and all those aspects?
Dr. Liam Ryan:
At the moment, we are operating 75% instantaneous electricity coming from wind and solar. Our intention is to bring that to about 95%. When we are looking at that, we are looking at what we call the balance portfolio. In other words, what amount of storage and renewables do we need on the system? We have done that work and published it in Shaping Our Electricity Future. I am happy to share that with the committee. We also determined we would need renewable fuel ready generators too for when we get a dunkelflaute, when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine. What do we actually do in those situations? In that situation, you will need some back-up generation to make sure you meet the demands of the country. Ideally, that renewable fuel ready generation is what we would be looking at, to complement the renewables which we have.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is there scope or does Dr. Ryan see a need for further interconnectors as part of our energy future? Obviously a North-South one is being built up and there is the Celtic interconnector too.
Dr. Liam Ryan:
We continuously look at further interconnection as part of our licence obligation. We look at what the right further interconnection is based on the demands we have with respect to renewable growth. Part of that has to be complemented by the market evolution both in Ireland and from a European perspective. We have an opportunity, because the European market is being reviewed in 2026, with the experiences we have here, to be able to influence what that looks like in the future.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I found this very interesting. I might go slightly left field. I recall that an offshore renewable energy roadmap was published about a decade ago. Obviously there was much focus on offshore wind, but there was reference to wave and tidal technology. I know much of it is about waiting for the technology and price point. Could anyone provide an update on where we might be with regard to use of those technologies?
Mr. Cunniffe talked about delays in the planning process and the fact that this year is the centenary of the commencement of Ardnacrusha. Ardnacrusha was conceived, started and completed within four years. Within a few years after that, in the early 1930s, it was providing 80% of Ireland's electricity supply. Does Mr. Cunniffe think, if Ardnacrusha was starting today, that it would get through the planning process and be completed in four years?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
How long does Mr. Cunniffe think it would take and what barriers would it face?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I cannot comment on that but I do know that the phase 1 projects which have submitted for planning permission are some of the most comprehensive planning submissions that the State will have ever received. They are thousands and thousands of pages long. Making sure that the right level and competency of resourcing is there in State agencies to be able to adequately and robustly assess those is vital. That needs to be the number one priority for the State when it comes to phase one projects over the next 12 months.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
The Deputy asked a question about wave energy. Could we get the position on it?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Yes. Wave or tidal.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
Given what we have seen with the price curve for offshore wind, which has come down very much, in the cost comparison between something like wave and tidal with offshore wind, it is probably much more efficient from the point of view of capital deployment and use of resources to invest in offshore wind.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
The issue of these huge planning applications is critical. Where have the witnesses concerns with the staffing levels of particular State agencies and being able to address some of these planning applications?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
We can provide the Deputy with details on that after the meeting. We know there have been examples, such as with the National Parks and Wildlife Service and in pre-application engagement with organisations like the maritime search and rescue in the Coast Guard, where if they had more resourcing, perhaps some of the issues that were asked for in the further information requests could have been sorted out in advance. We can provide the Deputy with more details on that. Generally speaking, as a sector, we are happy with the level of robustness that An Coimisiún Pleanála has taken with the planning applications and the scale of the requests for information that have been received, but we need to see a speedier turnaround from the other State agencies.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I have a final point, going back to the Asahi site in Killala, specifically for Mr. Marley in EirGrid. If I could get a commitment of engagement from him, it would be great. I wrote to the office within the last month and have not heard anything back, but I am conscious that some things can fall between the cracks. This project has huge potential to enable economic activity, renewable energy and data centre development, but there are challenges with connections. I would appreciate engagement on it, because I am sure that EirGrid has its own reality that it needs to work through.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I will bring it back to the purpose of this meeting, which is to talk about the climate change targets for 2030, particularly wind energy. I know we spoke briefly about this yesterday. Mr. Cunniffe mentioned that he does not see us meeting the 5 GW target by 2030. How much offshore wind had we 20 years ago?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
What do we have currently?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Those turbines do not have blades on them anymore, so are we actually-----
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
So 20 years ago, we were producing 25 MW and we are currently producing zero.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
By 2030, how much will we be producing out of the 5 GW?
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
A lot of that will depend on how quickly the projects can turn around the further information requests, how quickly those can be assessed by An Coimisiún Pleanála, and also for the projects to be given the certainty as to what happens next after that in the planning process. It has not been clearly set out to the projects yet if there will be requests for more information or if there will be oral hearings. We simply do not know how long the planning process will take.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
If Mr. Cunniffe had to put money on it now, how many of those phase one projects would be operational by 2030?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
The reason I wanted to raise this issue is that we discussed it at the fisheries committee and I had not joined the dots. We will have had more generation of offshore wind 20 years ago than we will in 2030 and that is when we are meant to be producing 5 GW in order to meet our targets.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Okay.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I wanted to get that point out. In respect of the statutory timelines each of these projects have, what is the absolute shortest time they could be? There are statutory timelines we will not be able to speed up but there are other timeframes where there could be a resourcing issue and we could get a project through the system a bit more quickly. If loads of resources were thrown at this area, is it possible to reach the 2030 target?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
So, the Government is -----
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
It is still within the remit or the hands of the Government to actually make this happen and for us to get some of these projects up and running if it throws enough resources at it and ensures the planning process goes as smoothly as it possibly can within the context of planning.
Mr. Noel Cunniffe:
I think so, as well as investing in ports and in other places, as I mentioned. In the context of the carbon budgets, which this committee is really responsible for, one thing to highlight is that just because offshore wind energy does not meet the 2030 target does not mean that it will not make a really significant contribution to the third carbon budget in 2031 to 2035.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Absolutely.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Absolutely, and I am conscious the €26 billion in potential fines will be based on Ireland's 2030 targets.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I will wrap the meeting up. Dr. Ryan mentioned EirGrid would forward information to the committee.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
If Dr. Ryan sends that information, we will distribute it to the committee. As witnesses will be aware, the committee proposes to publish all opening statements on the committee's website. Is that agreed? Agreed. On behalf of the committee I thank the witnesses for being here today and discussing these barriers with us. The meeting stands adjourned sine die.