Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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To discuss the findings of European Movement Ireland's 2025 EU poll, we are joined by Ms Noelle O'Connell, chief executive officer, and Ms Lorna Hayes, deputy CEO and head of policy and research. They are both very welcome. I really appreciate them coming here because there is a lot of interest in the poll and in what they have to say.

Before we begin, I have to read a note on privilege and address some housekeeping matters. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present but I do not believe we have anyone online so I will skip over that.

Just to let people now, I am going to invite Ms O'Connell to make her opening statement in a moment and then each member will have five minutes. As with the last meeting, we are going to strictly apply that allocation of five minutes for questions and answers. The witnesses should bear that in mind. If there is a need, we will come back for another round. I hope we will have that opportunity but we will initially give each member who indicates a strict five minutes for questions and answers.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gcoiste as an gcuireadh a bheith anseo inniu. It really is a privilege for me, as CEO, and for our deputy CEO and head of policy and research, Lorna Hayes, to be here on behalf of European Movement Ireland to present the findings of European Movement Ireland's 2025 EU opinion poll. It is the only poll conducted on EU issues throughout the island of Ireland and we are delighted to present the findings here today.

It is fair to say the 2025 poll took place against a very turbulent and fast-changing geopolitical backdrop. Despite being in only the first year of the new EU mandate, we can already see the destabilising impact of the shift in the make-up and composition of the European Parliament evidenced in the increased far-right presence among the groupings. Far-right groups, including new political groupings, account for approximately 27% of seats in the current European Parliament. This uncertainty in Brussels has been further compounded by the volatile geopolitical dynamics, the impact of which we have seen borne out in this year’s poll results.

As members of this committee will be aware, since 2013, we in European Movement Ireland have carried out annual independent polling on a wide range of public sentiment in Ireland relating to our membership of the EU. These efforts to track, analyse and provide a snapshot of and insight into Irish sentiment towards the European Union are unique and are a very valuable tool to measure public opinion as regards the EU. The regularity with which we carry out this exercise provides us with a snapshot in time regarding sentiment towards the EU and enables us to track changes and to present trends on Irish EU sentiment as it has evolved over the decade for which we have been carrying out polling.

Bearing in mind the usual caveats and health warnings around opinion polls, something the distinguished members of this committee will be far more familiar with than we are, we will highlight a few points from our results this year that members may find interesting and useful. We are very happy to explore any of the findings in greater detail. Members have a copy of the full poll for their records and information.

Looking at the key findings, the primary question we have consistently asked in our survey every year relates to support for Ireland's continuing membership of the EU. We are glad to report that this remains very strong in 2025, at 82%. This has declined by 2% from 2024 and represents the lowest level of support since polling first began. Elsewhere in our poll, our findings illustrate that, while the overwhelming majority of people support Irish membership of the EU, there are clear signs and indications of growing levels of dissatisfaction with the EU’s performance on a number of issues. Half of those surveyed, 47%, believe the EU is moving in the right direction. That figure was 49% last year. In 2023, it was 58%. We are seeing a worrying trajectory of dissatisfaction with the direction of the EU. Against the geopolitical turmoil I have mentioned and unpredictable EU-US relations, our poll shows that “unity and cooperation”, “stability and security” and “strength in numbers” are the main reasons cited by those who believe the EU is moving in the right direction, which we believe is very welcome. Combined, those sentiments come to 68%. In contrast, the top three issues cited by those who believe the EU is moving in the wrong direction involve the areas of migration, economic and regulatory issues and militarisation of the EU. Other reasons cited included the EU’s trajectory on foreign policy, the political rightward shift and the democratic deficit.

Our poll this year demonstrates that people attach significant importance not only to domestic concerns but also to foreign policy issues. When we asked people which issues they were most concerned about at European Union level, the cost of living was cited as the most pressing issue for more than half of people, 56%, in the Republic, particularly for younger people, with housing also featuring very strongly, at 41%. Migration was also among respondents’ top five concerns. EU-US relations and the EU’s response to the Russia-Ukraine conflict and to the Israel-Palestine conflict also featured prominently. Meanwhile, 52% of respondents in Northern Ireland cited the Israel-Palestine conflict as their top concern at EU level.

Although just under a quarter of respondents, 24%, expressed dissatisfaction with EU militarisation, half of respondents in the Republic believe Ireland should be part of increased EU defence and security co-operation. When we asked a similar question in 2024 about whether people felt Ireland should invest more in EU security and defence co-operation, 56% of responses were positive. Younger people, the cohort aged between 18 and 24, expressed most uncertainty as regards greater defence and security co-operation. This was one of the questions on which there was the most marked difference in support among men and women, with 62% of men and just under 40% of women responding positively.

At a time of rapidly shifting policies emanating from Brussels on topics relating to the European Green Deal, security and defence, and migration, it is crucial that the Irish public be informed and feel that our voice is being heard on these crucial topics at all levels of the EU decision-making process. However, less than a third believe that their views are being represented at EU level, while 36% expressed dissatisfaction with Ireland’s role and influence, with just under half, 49%, satisfied.

Again, a third feel that the EU is not upholding its core values.

These questions offer vital perspectives for all of us working on EU affairs and point to areas where we could all potentially do much more. They continue to underline the need to promote and foster a strong Irish career pipeline of civil servants working within and for all EU institutions.

Looking at the Northern Ireland question, people were asked whether they support a united Ireland in the EU. Some 67% in Northern Ireland and 62% in the Republic were in favour of this. Regarding the timeframe of this polling, we took the fieldwork sample before the EU-UK summit on 19 May. Interestingly, 60% of respondents in Northern Ireland did not think that the EU-UK reset has improved Northern Ireland’s relationship with the EU.

Concerning for us as a civil society organisation working to support democratic and participatory engagement at all levels, the ongoing low trust in institutions is discouraging, particularly given the growing polarisation and the rise of disinformation in Ireland and across the EU. Indeed, this is something that the Cathaoirleach and members of the committee have spoken about before and that we have addressed before the committee previously. In Ireland, a majority of respondents - at 40%, four in ten - stated they trusted none of the institutions cited, which were the EU institutions and the Irish Government, followed by 30% having trust in the Irish Government and 30% having trust in the EU. Similarly, in Northern Ireland, 39% cited trust in none of the institutions cited, as the highest finding, with one third trusting the EU, which was the highest level of trust in Northern Ireland, 19% the Irish Government and trust in the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Executive standing at 7% and 6%, respectively.

Regarding where people accessed their information on European-related matters, we saw traditional media at just under half, or 48%, continuing to be the primary source on EU issues. This was followed by online at 20%, with social media standing at 12%. However, it is important to caveat this finding. When disaggregated by age, the majority of young people - again, that 18- to 24-year-old demographic - access their information on EU issues from social media. That is very much in contrast to older demographics, who rely more on traditional media. At the same time, the use and preference of social media platforms varied across both jurisdictions and across age groups.

To conclude our opening remarks, it is fair to say that in these ongoing uncertain times, which unfortunately look like they will continue for some time ahead, we hope our opinion poll, the only one on the island of Ireland dedicated to focusing on EU issues, provides a valuable resource and important observations on a wide range of public sentiment across the island on European Union issues for members, policymakers, decision-makers and parliamentarians, both here in Ireland and in Brussels. While support in Ireland for EU membership is consistently high, our findings clearly demonstrate and serve as a salutary reminder that we can never afford to be complacent and that ongoing citizen engagement and dialogue on our relationship and our engagement with the EU is essential. We welcome the Government's efforts and the efforts of this committee to ensure ongoing strong Irish-EU relations and engagement. It is particularly welcome that communication, engagement and outreach will form a key part of next year's Irish Presidency of the EU Council. We believe the Irish EU Presidency will provide an important opportunity to continue these key conversations and dialogue on European affairs with people in Ireland. We look forward to continuing to support the work of the committee members in ensuring an engaged public across Ireland, North and South, on all matters pertaining to Europe.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms O'Connell. A lot of work went into this, so there is a lot to go through.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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I welcome Ms O’Connell and Ms Hayes and thank them for the presentation. It is always good to get an independent viewpoint of European Union views over the years. Historically, we have been one of the strongest supporters of the European Union over a period but, as with other areas, it has declined. There was a bit of an increase a couple years back and it has gone back to a level. The figure 82% in the European context is excellent but given that there is greater suspicion of authority and less faith in government, and we can see that in the results in the poll in terms of Northern Ireland’s support for the UK Government, support for the Irish Government and people not trusting to greater capacities, it is interesting that even though people have issues with the European Union and whether it is going the right direction, the European Union is seen as a reliable, trustworthy organisation in general, even if a person disagrees with where it is going.

I have two specific questions. One relates, not surprisingly, to the Northern Ireland results. While support for Irish unity has been on an upward trend in other polls, this seems to be an outlier in that sense. Is it in the context of the way the question was framed, as a united Ireland within the European Union? Is there any information in the raw data as to whether people refused to answer this question in some cases and whether the cohort who answered it might be more sympathetic? I am just trying to work my way around how come this is a different result from that of the other polls.

Second, I am asking this question of the witnesses’ group as an organisation that is trying to get information out to people about the European project and trying to engage in a positive way. Given that migration has come up both in Northern Ireland and in the South of Ireland, what are their views as to what needs to be done, either from an Irish governmental context or from a European Union context, to make this less of an issue? It is very subjective that people who expressed these views are not being listened to with regard to migration. Can the witnesses go into a bit more detail? Are these people looking for a tougher migration policy? Is there any information that suggests they are looking for a more nuanced approach?

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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If the witnesses are happy to, we will come back to them after each speaker, within the five minutes.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

We might do a bit of a two-hander, if that is okay. I might ask my colleague Ms Hayes to talk on the migration question. I thank the Deputy for his comments and questions.

The Deputy correctly identified the trajectory in terms of the response. In old money, 82% when I did my leaving certificate was an A grade. I am not sure where it stands now. It is still incredibly high and remains consistently high. It is one of the highest levels of support, which is borne out in all the Eurobarometer surveys in Ireland. It peaked at 93% in 2019, in the halcyon days of all the Brexit challenges and negotiations. The Deputy is absolutely right that it points to the fact that the support is strong, but we cannot rest on our laurels. We must continue to engage.

The Deputy raised an interesting question on Northern Ireland. For many years, we asked the question as to whether people believed there would be a united Ireland in the EU within the next ten years. In terms of feedback and engagement, and I know from engaging with the Deputy’s colleagues and Members of the Oireachtas on this, it is always a good sign to continue to evolve, adapt and take on board feedback with regard to the poll. We commissioned an independent research company, Amárach, to carry out this poll on our behalf. Regarding the question we asked, we can provide the full deck and the breakdown that goes into the demographics in greater detail of the polling of about 1,200 people being asked whether they had voted originally to remain or leave in the Brexit referendum. What we were doing in this question and what we wanted to get a sense of were sentiments in light of the new EU mandate we have and ongoing conversations about the greater question of a potential border poll. Our focus is solely on the EU and whether people would support a united Ireland in the European Union.

We feel that is particularly relevant. That is the key finding and the differentiator for us on this question. We can go into the various specifics on the demographics and send committee members the full breakdown by gender, age, class and region of where people gave feedback on this. This was the finding we found in this poll. We are not precluding or saying how people would vote were that border poll to take place, but we wanted to get a sense of whether people would support a united Ireland in the EU, especially given the work in terms of Brexit.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I am loath to interrupt Ms O'Connell and I know she said she would come to Ms Hayes. We might come back to her. I just want to try to stick to the five minutes per member. We will come back to Ms Hayes on the migration issue later.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for the presentation, which was very interesting and there is a lot to delve into. I want to focus on one area because of the time. I do not think there are any great surprises regarding the issues of concern to people. Migration was always going to be a significant issue and it is borne out in the poll. In saying that, I am not belittling it; it is a big issue. I can also understand people's feelings that this has not been handled well. When small countries in particular rely on rules-based organisations and the rest of it, the EU has a problem with some of its members at the moment. That is because of playing by the rules. In essence the EU has reached a crossroads in that regard. Either everybody plays by the rules or the EU must make a decision about how serious it is about its rules.

One question was: where do you think the EU's performance is the strongest? Interestingly, defence and security is down at 6%. Another question was: where do you think the EU's performance is the weakest? Defence and security is the second highest at 18%, with migration clearly the top one there. There is another question: which issues are you most concerned about at EU level? Security and defence is at 40%. That is very useful. It is alarming that just over a quarter of people are concerned these days about climate. Without being pious about it, that is the existential one and should be right up there. It shows that we are in a tumultuous world full of volatility. It is reflected in what is happening in the world; the world is jittery. The world has gone volatile and I think people are very frightened underneath it all.

I want to focus on security and defence because we are not talking about the traditional guns and weapons any more. We are talking about security and it is a language thing. Across an institution that has multiple languages, trying to find language that applies evenly to everybody can be difficult particularly with a word like "defence". We are the gateway to the European Union for data. We will be the gateway to the European Union for artificial intelligence. These are really significant things. We are incredibly vulnerable. Even the Japanese raised the issue of the cables coming into Ireland with the Taoiseach last week. Therefore, increased spending on security in order to protect the assets we have is a no-brainer.

Have the witnesses drilled down into what people understand by the question of security and defence? I feel we have much more work to do on it. A diplomat recently made a point to me about people getting information. Apparently, the Estonians have done more work than anybody on disinformation. We really need to get our act together. We seem to stand back and let it wash over us. We need to make significant investments on combating disinformation.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I will take the Deputy's security and defence question and then I will pass over to my colleague Ms Hayes for some of the questions on climate and migration. He is absolutely correct. Our geographically peripheral location does not magically insulate us from what is happening in the wider world. He mentioned Estonia. I have talked to my Estonian counterparts, and they are very clearly attuned to the cyber and hybrid threats they are facing. We are not insulated from that. I do not believe, from an Irish perspective, that it is mutually exclusive.

I know Deputy Ó Murchú will be very familiar with this as he was one of the Oireachtas representatives to the Conference on the Future of Europe, which was the largest exercise in participatory democracy worldwide a number of years ago. We carried out a series of town hall debates around the country and we asked members of the public to come in and give their views on security and defence. We found a deep, everlasting and important pride in our military neutrality, and our unblemished and untrammelled peacekeeping record. However, people were very alive, aware and attuned to the changing world we live in. We need to have these conversations and the defence forum that took place a number of years ago under Dame Louise Richardson was really important. We must look at this, as the Deputy outlined.

Lorna, do you want-----

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I am loath to cut Ms Hayes off a second time. I will allow her to answer now if members are agreeable with that because we want to hear the answers.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

The Deputy is quite right in his comments on migration. The sentiment in Ireland is multifaceted and there is no clear response. However, the question very much focused on the EU's response. We looked at the top-line data as to whether the EU has a cohesive policy in its response to refugee crises and border security related issues. That is where the sentiment is. We cannot interpret why people respond in a certain way but a lot of the narrative that comes from Brussels very much securitises migration. It is often very negative. It is about deportations, externalising refugee protection, third-country deals, pushing people back, return hubs etc. There is rarely a positive narrative coming from Brussels about the rights of refugees and their needs for international protection. To a certain degree, that could also influence public sentiment. For us and for everyone else working on EU affairs and migration, it is really important to be aware of how we talk about these issues.

The 2024 ESRI report concluded that public sentiment towards refugees and migrants is very positive when tracked across EU member states. It remains one of the most positive in the EU. We are lucky in Ireland and we should use the window we have. Those on the far right can easily weaponise the issue of migration and have done so already. For us, particularly as part of civil society, we are trying to look at how we can respond to that and have a more humane conversation about the issue.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I call Deputy Ó Murchú. This is not directed at you specifically, but just to remember, members-----

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is very strange. You would not be the first Chair who has directed comments at me.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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You just need to leave time for the witnesses to respond because I will cut off after five minutes, particularly with you.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Some of my colleagues are obviously wasting my time for me.

I have been through a number of these polls at this stage. It would actually be interesting to look at the changes that are tracked over a number of years. On the question of whether Ireland should remain a member of the EU; we know that rates high. We know that it has all taken a hit. I do not think anyone will be shocked by the issues where the belief is that the European Union has been good, such as Brexit, trade and the economy. There was always going to be a belief that migration has not been dealt with well. There is a piece of work that needs to be done on disinformation and we need to have an holistic conversation. This is useful in informing that piece.

It always jars me when I hear "Ireland" and whatever other terminology people use. Obviously, it is a bit ludicrous but I am not going to spend a whole pile of time on this. It is Ireland and it is a single island.

With regard to support for a united Ireland, I am wondering what the percentages were and who was asked. The percentage in the North was substantial. In the South, it was relatively low. I am wondering how this came about.

On the issues concerning Ireland’s role in the EU and whether the EU has gone wrong in some way, is there a comparison with previous years? There is a slight move in the wrong direction because there is fear. Much of it probably relates to the migration issue and some of it is superpowered by disinformation online. Could the witnesses comment on that?

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I thank Deputy Ó Murchú for those comments. We will be happy to send the survey participant profile, which I have to hand, to the clerk to the committee. We have got the breakdown from Amárach as to whether people identified as British and Irish, British and Northern Irish, British only, Irish and Northern Irish, Irish only, Northern Irish only, other EU nationality, or other nationality including English, Scottish, etc. Regarding how people voted, 64% of those in the polling sample voted to remain and 22% voted to leave. The proportion for "Did not vote" and "Not registered" stood at 2%, while 1% preferred not to say. The proportion for "Did not vote" or "Spoiled my vote" stood at 10%. We can send the breakdown to the committee. For a number of years, we asked whether people thought there would be a united Ireland in the EU in the next ten years. Last year, the proportion stood at 55% down here. In the North, 43% of people felt there would be a united Ireland in the EU in the next ten years. We took on board the feedback and that is why the question was as it was. There is much more information. For the sake of providing greater detail, and so as not to overload the committee with statistics, we will send on the full deck, which will provide some useful backup.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Ó Murchú happy enough?

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Could we get some rough comparator, particularly on views that have changed throughout the European Union on the direction it is going and the issues that have arisen? Obviously, Palestine and Israel comprise a major issue, but I am also referring to migration and so on.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge the vital work of European Movement Ireland. I am not too sure when it was founded but I believe it was before Ireland’s participation in the EU. It was in the 1950s, if I am not mistaken.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

It was 1954.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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In 1954. I acknowledge the extent to which European Movement Ireland informs, engages with and empowers Irish citizens and thank it for that.

The headline figures indicate there is still robust support for membership, notwithstanding that it is down from a high of 93% in 2019. I have always been on record as having said we cannot take that support for granted. When we dig deeper, we note there is a real call for action. We have strength through membership but there are what I would call significant directional doubts. Our membership of the European Union is not in question but policy direction, public trust and vision need significant strengthening.

One thing that jumped out for me was the extent to which the digital and green transitions do not comprise a primary concern. It is not so long ago that we had NextGenerationEU. Extraordinary amounts of money were set aside for both the digital and green transitions. I do not know whether the thinking is that we have made progress on the acceleration of the digital agenda and that climate is a blind spot because of the economic realities. I have a couple of questions on this and I want to give our guests time to answer. How can we deal with such directional doubt? I do not know whether the next MMF is crucial, particularly in terms of the current emphasis on strengthening the fence across the European Union. There is definitely split opinion in the context of defence.

Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Fifty percent.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Fifty percent. I have so many figures in front of me. What role can European Movement Ireland play in addressing the trust gap, perhaps through more transparent dialogue and citizen outreach? How can European Movement Ireland drive awareness of and public support for the digital and green transitions? These are vital areas. Through Ireland’s Presidency how can we shape constructive, humane strategic policies on migration and security? I will leave it at that. I am not sure whether we will have a second round of questions.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I thank Deputy Murphy. I will take the question on how European Movement Ireland can address trust and Ms Hayes will pick up on the Deputy’s comments on climate, which was also referred to by Deputy Lahart.

Deputy Murphy is absolutely right that, for over 70 years, European Movement Ireland has been working to support and facilitate engagement, debate and dialogue on our relationship with all things European. Indeed, our foundation predates Ireland's accession to the then EEC. We were the lead campaigning civil society organisation in 1972, when we campaigned for a "Yes" vote. I stress that neither Ms Hayes nor I was around when our organisation was founded or at the time of the referendum in the 1970s, but the vision of having Ireland very much at the heart of Europe and of ensuring we all have an opportunity to shape and influence the type of Europe and European Union we want to live in is core to us.

The Deputy is absolutely right in that Brexit was a salutary reminder that if you take the foot off the pedal of ongoing engagement, reactivating it in a short referendum campaign of four to six weeks is a genuine challenge. We cannot be complacent about this and that is why ongoing participatory dialogue and the town-hall engagement between members and their constituents are exceedingly important. We will be ramping up this activity, particularly regarding the Presidency. We do not pause between referendums or European Parliament elections. This is very important for us.

Ms Hayes will refer to the question on climate.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

On climate, we have been surprised not just this year but also in the past two years that climate change has not come out high in terms of the EU's performance. Rather, it has actually been quite low. We see this in a few questions this year. This is particularly unusual given that, at least under the previous mandate, the green deal was a massive priority flagship for the EU. It is interesting that this does not have more prominence but maybe there are other issues, such as the cost of living and housing, that the younger demographic of our population in particular have chosen as top concerns.

We do not have more analysis that would explain why climate change is coming out so low as regards performance. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years because there are shifts to water down quite a lot of the climate change-related commitments, including both corporate and social responsibility in reporting and other areas of regulation. We will do more work on the MFF. We will reach out to civil society groups. One of the priority areas, in addition to support for civil society and civil society funding, will be climate change.

In other analysis we are doing separate to this poll, we have seen that reporting in Irish media on the issue of climate change has reduced in recent years. That might also be a contributing factor in public awareness and public interest.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I thank both witnesses for coming in, and for preparing and giving us these valuable insights. The only polls that actually matter, as we say on this side of the table at least, are elections and referendums. As we go towards those kinds of political touchpoints with people, what I have heard indicates there is a lot of work to do. As was noted, it is the lowest level of support for the EU since records began. That notably takes into account the troika programme and austerity periods. It is the lowest in terms of the right direction as well.

I am also keenly disturbed by the lack of trust in institutions. If we look at 40% of people not trusting any institution at all, whether that is "down here" or "up there", we then have a problem ahead of us in restoring that confidence for people, not just at national level but also at European level. If I am to turn a corner a little in talking about problems and solutions, that is where I will focus a lot of my questions. Something I have been reflecting on a lot is that dissonance on foreign policy between people in Ireland and what we hear from European institutions, particularly on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. How do we bridge those kinds of gaps politically, when they emerge, between what is being said in Brussels and what is being felt in the citizen population?

The other thing that is a major deficit in the European Union more generally is we do not talk enough about social programmes. I have a quip I like to say to some of my rural compatriots, which is that CAP is the most socialist programme I have ever heard of and is the most socialist project of the European Union. I would like to see more programmes like that, when we talk about things like housing and the cost of living, and we look at the multi-annual financial framework. When the Danish ambassador was here last week, he said that Denmark is keenly getting focused on how it will reprioritise CAP and the cohesion policy to other priorities. I might disagree with what those priorities might be, but I would like to see things on social programmes for housing and those kinds of things. How will that CAP ethos being applied to other things play in getting a solution, connecting with people and building trust in institutions?

There is a fracturing in the media environment here. When I counted it up, 52% of respondents got most of their information on the EU online or through social media. It is 32% down here, so there is a dissonance and fragmentation here. When we think about Dublin's specific role in the European Union, there are things such as social media regulation, data protection and how big tech is actually performing. I would like to hear a little more about how the democracy shield might play into that, into national legislation in respect of social media and into media fragmentation more generally.

I could not agree more that migration is rarely talked about positively by a lot of people at European level but also policymakers more generally. When people are going across borders, whether these are real or imagined, a huge amount of positive things happen in helping people with persecution and war. There are also the very positive contributions migrants have made in Ireland, as we did in other countries, going back historically, maybe to 1952. I thank the representatives for their contributions. Any way they can answer those questions on those three areas will be very helpful.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I thank the Deputy. We will do the two-parter again. I could not agree more with him on the social programmes he mentioned. We are very aware that this is a key week in Brussels for the MFF negotiations. Crucial votes and conversations are happening, as we see in Strasbourg at the moment. We should never lose sight of the fact of the contribution CAP has made, not least in Ireland but also more broadly across the EU. The Deputy is definitely onto something regarding that ethos and how we go about promoting it during the EU's outputs, especially in the Presidency. The Danish ambassador also gave us a Presidency briefing yesterday. He spoke about the Danish Presidency priorities in housing, an efficiency in respect of the green deal, and a stronger Europe in a changing world as the key Danish Presidency priority, which again goes to some of the previous comments and observations made on Ireland's role, especially given the security and defence side of things with three quarters of data going through Irish waters.

Wearing my European Movement International vice-president hat, I chair the Europe in the world working group, which looks at this whole area of the EU on a global stage. I have to be honest and say there are challenges in navigating and getting consensus among 27 different member states and councils on such geopolitical issues, not least on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the Israel-Palestinian conflict. It also looks at how Ireland positions itself in investing, increasing and supporting not just a social Europe, but also a secure Europe. The democracy shield and supporting and upholding civil society is highly important. As Ms Hayes mentioned, it is something on which we are going to be working with civil society groups in Ireland and across the EU to ensure there is a strong input into it.

In the next Irish EU Presidency, there is a big opportunity for us to look at, as mentioned, the whole area of AI and how we position ourselves because that conversation is happening. As we see from where people access their information, we cannot afford to be behind the curve and how we engage creatively with the public on these issues is of vital importance.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

I definitely agree with the Deputy's points on foreign policy, but the dissonance is maybe more among member states and less so among the public or citizens in different European countries. The Deputy is probably following the EU-Israel association agreement that is being discussed at the moment. The review confirmed that Israel is in breach of its human rights obligations. At next week's Foreign Affairs Council meeting, the EU is supposed to be taking decisions on what it will do because of the results of the review. It appears there is not a lot of political will for action at EU level. The EU is talking a lot about continuing dialogue with Israel, etc., so it is very important that member states continue to do what they can at national level. Ireland has of course played a leadership role in Brussels, alongside Spain, Belgium and some other member states, but, unfortunately, they still seem to be in the minority. It remains to be seen what will happen in Brussels on that issue.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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There are three more members in the first round: Deputies Crowe, Butterly and Gibney. Senators O'Loughlin and Andrews also want to get in.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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The witnesses are very welcome. It is about timing and questions; how they are framed and so on. I was fascinated by the graph at the start of the poll, which, through the years, indicated whether people thought Ireland should remain a member of the EU. What happened in 2019 that it was so high at 93%? This is in the context of 2020 and 2021, which were the Covid years. Did that have an impact? Some countries stated they were going to produce their own vaccine and so on. It was 88% in 2022 and 2023, when there was the invasion of Ukraine. It can be seen how events feature in people's thinking on EU membership. Is there any particular factor in 2025?

I will move to the second question in the poll, "Do you think the EU is moving in the right direction?".

I am wondering whether the drop in belief that the EU shares the Irish people's goals would be attributable, for instance, to something as simple as maybe Commissioner von der Leyen's position on Israel and militarisation. That really jarred with people, particularly on this isle. Would that be a factor?

The responses North and South on Ireland's influence in the EU were interesting. One is looking in and one is looking out. It was interesting that 49% were satisfied with our influence, while 36% were not. Those are big numbers. Do the witnesses have any insight on that?

The united Ireland issue really jumps out in the survey. I presume there will be coverage of that. Even on that, the interesting point is that no one is talking of a united Ireland being outside the EU. Maybe micro-groups are, but it is certainly not the mainstream. That is positive.

The migration figures are understandable. It is dependent on what was happening at the time as well. If we were looking at some of the scenes relating to the Mediterranean graveyard or the issues with people travelling to Britain in boats, etc., that frames people's minds. Would it have been different if we had asked this question a couple of weeks ago in the context of what was happening in Ballymena? We are all over the place in relation to migration, compared with the approaches of some other countries.

I have asked loads of questions and the witnesses will have only a minute and half to answer. I thank them again for their survey.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

No worries, that might prompt me to try and keep to my time, as I see it. Apologies, it is the Blarney gift of the gab.

I thank Deputy Crowe. He correctly identified the challenge of polling. As he knows, polls are a snapshot in time. The fieldwork sample for this took place between 26 and 28 March. That was even before the announcement by President Trump of the wider trade and tariffs as well. It is but a snapshot in time.

As the Deputy correctly identified, the period 2018 to 2019 was when Brexit and all the various Brexit goings-on and the challenges were at their - what is the diplomatic way of putting it? - peak. We saw a significant ramp-up of support, at 93% and 92%, for Irish EU membership but also, more broadly, that solidarity that the EU gave in spades in response to the challenges faced by the island of Ireland due to the Brexit vote. It is great to see that level of support and solidarity.

The other findings, as the Deputy said, were impacted. We asked some questions about Covid and whether people felt the EU response to the Covid pandemic had been efficient. We tried to frame the questions with the topics of the time. I know Deputy Crowe. I have been before him many times. Who would have thought three or four years ago that we would be asking questions about the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Those are the challenges, but it is in the round that we are looking at this.

Unfortunately, in terms of our question on the EU going in the right direction, the questions that the Deputy has are those that were asked. Sadly, we are not able to do a deeper dive, but what is borne out across the ten years plus that we have been doing this polling is that, while they are framed by their time, the overarching guideline and support in engagement has remained fairly constant and consistent.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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There is a vote in the Seanad, if that concerns anyone.

Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I was interested to read this. For anyone who likes a statistic or a graph, it rocks your boat at times. I thank Ms O'Connell for that.

I am interpreting, perhaps incorrectly, the curious contradiction that over 80% want to remain in Europe and yet we feel that only 30% believe that their views are adequately represented at EU level. Does Ms O'Connell have any background information on that or could she dig a little bit deeper in that regard? We are satisfied overall in being a member of the EU and yet we feel that our views are not being represented properly.

As Ms Hayes was talking about the green deal, the green deal was at an EU level to drill down towards the EU members, whereas perhaps the most important matters to people within the European community are the cost of living and migration and, therefore, maybe we are at loggerheads in representing the European constituents. I would like to hear the witnesses' views on that.

On the other side, I was happy to see that when it comes to EU enlargement, it is very positive, and particularly with the younger demographic. It was among those aged 18 to 24 that it rose as far as 67%. That is positive. Is there any further information as to why they are so positive with a view to enlargement?

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I thank Deputy Butterly. Deputy Crowe also asked about views being represented at an EU level. I suppose it is multifaceted and much broader. When we talk about representation, it is not only looking at the MEPs. It is the wider, holistic view, whether that is civil servants or the Government and the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, very much championing an EU jobs campaign to encourage a strong pipeline of Irish graduates across the different institutions. That is something we in European Movement Ireland are really keen on. It is certainly food for thought. How we make sure that people feel that their views are represented an EU level is certainly important.

The Deputy spoke of the younger demographic. What I find particularly heartening and welcome is that strong level of support among the 18-to-24-year-olds consistently in the more than ten years we have been doing this survey in terms of membership and engagement, but it also outlines the challenges once you get past that age group, from the 25-year-old demographic upwards, such as housing and the cost-of-living crisis. We try to differentiate between domestic and European policy priorities in the polls but, as we have seen, there is now a Commissioner for housing. The intersectionality of both domestic and international issues is something that we are working on. The EU needs to continue to ensure it is effective for all constituents and all citizens across the EU because we cannot divorce them any more.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I thank the witnesses so much for being here. It is lovely to see them again. I had not seen them since the European elections last year. We were best buddies by the end of that.

I have a couple of questions about defence spending and public trust in institutions. On defence, I thought some of the figures around this were very interesting. A quarter of people who believe that the EU is moving in the wrong direction cited concerns about militarisation as a reason and only 7% who have a positive view of the direction of the EU cite that as being connected to the same area. The survey states that only three in ten feel adequately represented at EU level. In that context, is funding a part of that defence spending because, obviously, anything we spend on defence is not being spent on the social focus that we could have said would have been the primary focus of the European Union? Belgium's budget minister was quoted in the Financial Times as talking about Belgium's scramble to get to the NATO percentage, stating, "every euro that's a deficit today ... is a euro that will be debt, and that debt will be one day a tax or a cut and in the social welfare state". I am asking for an insight into the numbers. Is that spending feeding into those figures?

My second question is probably not something the witnesses can answer in a few minutes but I would love to hear their thoughts on it. It is around that democratic deficit, the threat to democracy. Obviously, that lack of trust in our institutions, both in national government and at EU level, is something that is coming through very strongly.

We have heard criticism of the EU's decisions, particularly with the Commission described as opaque and overstepping the mark on some issues. We see the latest case coming from the Parliament to the Commission around their SAFE regulation. I would love to hear the witnesses' thoughts on that. Some of the Commission's positions on foreign affairs and defence are seen as being out of step with some of the member states. What can we do to tackle this? How can we build a strong, open, trusted EU? We focus a lot on external threats to democracy, but continue to ignore some of the issues within the Union which are eroding this trust.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

I think the Deputy is probably right. On the issue of expenditure, since this mandate started the two big pillars being communicated are defence and security, and competitiveness. Within competitiveness there is a big risk of funding being lost for social protection, etc. They are the overarching priorities. A big question is defence. As the Deputy rightly noted, there is a question of where that funding is going to come from. That could very well feed into people's concerns about the EU and the direction it is going in. Everything is being framed within that securitisation lens. For people concerned about housing, the cost of living, etc, I am sure that is driving some anxiety and concern. With the upcoming negotiations on the MFF, it remains to be seen how these issues will play out. Will the European Green Deal have stand-alone funding? Even that is sometimes being included as part of security. Where is that going to end? How do you safeguard funding for particular areas within those two massive pillars? They can be compatible with the green deal. However, some member states are not speaking about it that way any more. They see them as being against each other but that is not necessarily the case. It is an interesting time. Let us see what happens with the MFF.

As to how can we have the different member states' opinions on foreign policy, there is a big role for civil society to play. I think there is going to be a civil society strategy coming under Commissioner Michael McGrath's portfolio. That is a big opportunity for Irish and European civil society to really push for these formalised dialogues, formalised spaces to talk to civil society, which is not happening as much as it should. There have been threats over the past few months, such as the EPP questioning funding from the LIFE programme going to NGOs working on climate change. Questions are being asked about the role of civil society organisations and the work they do, including their right to do advocacy work, which is a key role of civil society. It is important that there is dialogue with MEPs on these issues.

Robert O'Donoghue (Dublin Fingal West, Labour)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in and producing such a well designed piece of research. It was easy to read. I used to be in that game to some degree. The poll results were generally positive. If we had 82% agreement on anything else, we would probably celebrate it. We rarely get 82% agreement in this House. It is, however, disappointing that it is the lowest score since the inauguration of the survey, albeit coming from a high level of support. It is heartening to see that the majority of Irish people are satisfied with our influence in the EU and the majority are satisfied with our co-operation on security.

Given that we are coming from a high base, one could take the drop in support as a creeping kind of dissatisfaction which I think is stoked by a number of reasons both domestic and international. Too often, some Members of these Houses use the EU as a flak jacket to blame it on unpopular decisions at national level. Unfortunately some Members, and I am not talking about the members of this committee, need to be reminded that Ireland is a member state of the EU. I should not have to say that but during the statements on Europe Day, it was too often implied for my liking that we are somehow not a member state. This probably feeds into the distrust of the institutions that comes through the document. Some Members need to be reminded that it is through our alliances with other member states that we set the rules in Europe. We are not rule-takers. This probably also feeds into the distrust in the institutions among the public. Ireland's future prosperity is fundamentally tied not just to our European Union membership but to our membership of the Single Market. It does not take a lot to go from a creeping dissatisfaction to a Farage. For those of you who can remember the early 1990s, Britain was not always Eurosceptic. You could say it was Eurocritical. There was a euphoria after the Berlin Wall came down and we were going to expand. To me, that creeping dissatisfaction fuelled by irresponsible elected members, particularly in the Tory Party, and a right-wing media that was quite happy to facilitate it, helped to facilitate Brexit.

It is a concern that 36% of 18-year-olds to 24-year-olds get their information on EU issues from TikTok is many things but a news source is not one of them. However, I do find their strong levels of support for the Union heartening. A problem with the public's view is that the things that Europe does well often go unnoticed. No one is giving out that at the minute, Ireland is being protected from the Trump tariffs by the EU. We pooled our sovereignty on trade issues, we are in a stronger position and are not as easy to pick off. This never gets spoken about. As I am generally in agreement that the EU is moving in the right direction, I am not particularly satisfied that the cordon sanitaire is breaking down within the European Parliament. That never gets talked about. One of the mainstream parties crossed the floor to vote with the ESN and the Patriots on budget amendments recently. That is of genuine concern to me. It is a bad precedent and it is never spoken about.

It is good to see the public's acknowledgement that trade and the economy are some of the strongest points the EU carries out for us. I agree with that. I would love to see more movement on the capital and savings union when we chair the Presidency next year. My contribution included more statements than questions but I appreciate the report and thank the witnesses.

Ms Noelle O'Connor:

I thank Deputy O'Donoghue. The savings and investment union is something that we will be looking at. We all feel strongly that there is a great drive and a necessity for the capital markets union to be completed to make it more efficient. We had a stock phrase that we used in some of our speeches that we tend to nationalise success and Europeanise failure. Deputy O'Donoghue underlined quite eloquently the importance of us taking ownership and having those difficult conversations on topics such as security and defence, migration and what sort of social programmes we want the EU to enact. We need to have those conversations at a national level. In terms of referendums, we have had nine EU referendums in Ireland. It is important that people feel informed and empowered to vote. We welcome the work the Electoral Commission is doing to encourage more people to register to vote and the whole area of the electoral register, which is something with which all members will be familiar. I thank the Deputy for his comments. We wanted to provide as much detail as possible on the report. I apologise if it does feel a bit like death by statistics but that is always the risk with all things to do with polling and statistics.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for their contributions. The report is interesting. You could spend days and weeks analysing everything. What struck me were some of the poll results on Ireland's membership of the EU. It does feel like there is downward trend. I can see the reasons for the spikes but it does feel as if there is a downward trend. Between 2023 and 2025, it is down 6%.

Going back in time, I see that it could spike up again. However, I think the last three years have been significant regarding immigration. This is reflected in many of the other questions asked. Immigration seems to be quite a significant issue. I do not know if this has been analysed or if migration was factored in but in recent years, Ursula von der Leyen has been moving away from a work-together type of Presidency and towards one where the European Commission is becoming more focused on her making decisions in isolation about what is happening and not really consulting with the European Council or any of the nations. We see how she has moved to give unequivocal support for Netanyahu and Israel and the genocide in Gaza, as well as her response to the wars and the attacks on Iran and the Middle East in general and her push towards the militarisation of the EU.

Among the people I speak to – and perhaps it is the people I speak to – there is a real sense that the Irish people are really upset with the attitude of Ursula von der Leyen, the push towards militarisation and going out on a limb and making statements in support of Israel when that is out of step with how the Irish public feel. The Commission has been very eager to facilitate the expansion of the EU arms industry and has broken its own budgetary rules in that process, while at the same time putting pressure on Ireland to break our traditional position on neutrality or at least bend it. Migration, as I said, is an issue but the EMI has not picked up that at all, has it? As I said, Ursula von der Leyen seems to have just tried to move the European project away from what it should be, which is about ordinary people and ordinary communities, and towards powerful people and powerful communities. I wonder if this point has been picked up at all. Is it something that has come up on the radar at all?

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I thank Senator Andrews. I will hand over to Ms Hayes for what I do not get to. As the Senator correctly pointed out, however, in terms of the trajectory in the percentage of people who think the EU is moving in the right direction going from the height of 58% to 47%, I think this is something we need to look at. I would like to see us do this and come back to the Senator after another couple of years to see where it stands on the full gamut of results, as this was a question we only began asking very recently. I do absolutely accept what the Senator said. I would absolutely prefer if the trend were upwards. It is within the 2.2% margin of error but it is a decline. The Senator has certainly eloquently outlined the challenges we are seeing being borne out - and I think Ms Hayes spoke about it as well - regarding the changing nature of the current EU mandate, whether this is the new Parliament, etc., how this is impacting and how the challenges that civil society and other organisations are facing. When we did ask people what they felt the EU's performance was strongest on and the values, unity and co-operation was something that was the highest, both North and South. Interestingly, in the North, defence and protection, at 17%, was the second highest sector where it was felt the EU was moving in the right direction. I suppose it is very nuanced and multifaceted. Ms Hayes may wish to comment on the foreign policy.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

Briefly, last year we had a stand-alone question on the EU's response to the Israel-Gaza situation and more than 60% were dissatisfied. As the Senator said, this is obviously playing a role I suppose in the context of that level of dissatisfaction. We could see the drop last year. Of course, there are multiple issues. We can see migration, like all the other issues, including the cost of living and housing, so we cannot just pick out one issue, but that did play a huge role. We could see it in our poll last year and it is embedded in another question this year, so it obviously is significant. On values – and this may also be relevant to the Senator's question – 50% agreed that the EU upholds its values, but around one third do not agree. We cannot interpret this exactly. We list the values in the question, but it includes human rights, so part of this could be linked to the double standards and the EU's position on Israel versus its response to Russia. We are on the 17th round of sanctions against Russia but there are no sanctions yet against Israel. I am sure all these factors do play in. We can see there are multiple concerns, but this is also a significant concern.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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To make a very brief observation in relation to the question in the poll concerning where people get their information on EU issues, radio and television was at 48% and social media at 12%. I think that is interesting. Sometimes we over-egg social media.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Andrews. I call Senator O'Loughlin.

Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the opportunity. My first point is similar to what Senator Andrews just said. An interesting thing I found was that sometimes we tend to think people are not finding their information from the traditional sources. While newspapers are not mentioned, TV and radio was cited and, generally speaking, one feels that information, at least, is going to be fact-checked and proper information. It is very important. Turning to the 20% online and 12% social media finding, I assume the difference there is that the online information is in terms of solid platforms. I found that quite refreshing in an era where much of what we hear is defined by algorithms and social media.

What concerns me is the number of people getting their information from either the Government or NGOs such as European Movement Ireland. Only 4% of information comes from the Government and 3% from NGOs. Just looking at European Movement Ireland, I think it has 11 people working there. Is that right? There are 11 people on the website. There may well be more. The role of the organisation is very important in terms of this engagement, etc. How do the witnesses feel we can support it as an NGO in terms of this important engagement? I ask this particularly as we are coming up to the European Presidency. Obviously, many citizens feel disengaged and disconnected from EU decision-making. There is the political aspect of our MEPs, shall we say, and our Commissioner, but there must be more we can do in terms of an organisation such as European Movement Ireland. I think the Blue Star programme is a good one. I got to go to a school recently with the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, in this regard. I am interested in hearing how Ms O'Connell and Ms Hayes feel we can involve more young people and show them that this is about their future and empower them to help shape it, and all that type of outreach.

Going back to something else I thought was interesting, the areas of most concern, I was just amazed that Israel and Palestine did not come up on the Republic of Ireland one, considering the emails we are all getting. What did hearten me in the poll response was the number of people who agreed with and supported enlargement. I thought this was a key point. There is a particular role we need there around the countries looking at enlargement in respect of ensuring we put a programme in place for it. Another point is that 50% response from people looking at increased EU defence and security.

Does Ms O'Connell think there is something in the issue of the triple lock that means people are becoming more engaged or would like to be on that issue?

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

To clarify, "online" includes if people access, say, a newspaper online as well. It goes to the point as well that perhaps fewer hard copies of newspapers are being bought or fewer people are looking at different platforms, but it is the wider online use.

I do not know if, in all my years of having the honour of appearing before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Affairs, I have ever been asked how it can support us, so I thank Senator O'Loughlin for that. I welcome that question. As she said, we are a team of 11 people. We have a fantastic stagiaire or internship programme. We also have a young intern from the University of Notre Dame for the summer. We are small in size but I like to think we are mighty in impact. On support from the committee, it gets requests from NGOs and civil society like us to engage in town hall meetings or to support and visit schools in the blue star programme, which is a fantastic primary school programme for engaging young people. I have spoken about the programme many times before this committee and I know it is one the members are all supportive of. That level of support is hugely important.

Also, as Ms Hayes and I have outlined, the threat to NGOs and civil society organisations as regards funding and engagement is real and alive. We represent and advocate on behalf of those who may not always feel their voices are heard. Therefore, in order for us to be supported and facilitated to do that, the committee's support is key.

Funding support is critical. We have our own multi-annual financial framework, MFF, like any other NGO or civil society organisation. What I have seen and encountered in more than 14 years of engaging on this issue is that, when key critical funding and support gets turned off for NGOs like ours, the decline in the level of support and sentiment and the challenges we face in combating misinformation and disinformation are all too real. We saw that with our counterparts across the Baltic and Balkan countries, so I am under no illusions about the importance of ongoing support from a State level in facilitating us to continue to represent and advocate and ensure important conversations are heard.

Deputy Butterly also asked me the question on enlargement. Absolutely, Ireland traditionally is one of the most pro-enlargement member states. We have seen consistently throughout our polling that that level of support has not wavered, notwithstanding the challenges. I hope something we will always be reminded of when we speak at different conferences and engage across Europe is how we are seen as an exemplar, a best-in-class model and a shining light of hope for accession and aspiring candidate countries. We should be very proud of that and not lose sight of it, especially during the Presidency.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I will come in on a few issues. First, I absolutely agree with Ms O'Connell's last comment on enlargement. It has stalled slightly and there is an obligation on the Commission to reignite that process.

In the poll, the influence question is important. I put on record my support for the work EMI does on the publication of positions available in Europe at all levels. As a committee, what can we do to help promote the careers available in the institutions in Europe for Irish graduates or at whatever level it might be? Our influence wanes when we do not take those positions.

I have heard the line about nationalising success and Europeanising failure before. It is tremendously important and it happens quite often here. We as politicians are the most guilty of it because we all work hard and often do not get credit for the work we do, so we want to take credit when something is in our wheelhouse. There is often a propensity to talk about us and Europe as though they are two separate things. As a committee, what does Ms O'Connell see as something we can do to promote the notion that we are Europe and that when we criticise Europe, we are criticising ourselves because we sit around that table as equal partners?

I want to ask about the change in the question on a united Ireland. I noticed it has changed from whether people see it happening to whether they would be in favour of it. Why was that change made? What is the import of the slightly different result?

The issue of whether people feel their views are adequately represented at European level appears in question 10 of the survey. I would not necessarily make the same comments as Senator Andrews in ascribing motives to President von der Leyen, but I do think and am on record as saying that the way she behaved in late 2023, after the attacks on Israel and the subsequent disproportionate response from Israel, when she stood with an Israeli minister who openly stated he would break international law and said she supported him was appalling. She has apologised since, but that time, and comments since, have distanced the Commission from Irish people who see the inconsistency of the approach by the Commission. In the result of question 10 - there are different groups - the 35-44 age group is the group that says most significantly that it does not feel its views are represented and women in that group feel their views are not represented. Will Ms O'Connell comment on that as well?

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I thank the Cathaoirleach for his questions. On the work of the committee in supporting EU jobs, it is unfortunately a common refrain that the Irish demographic is slightly on the ageing side. Two Secretaries General from Ireland have served at senior level in the European Commission. When we comment on where Irish people get to at all levels of the institutions, whether that is Emer Cooke, who is head of the European Medicines Agency, which did such crucial work during the Covid-19 pandemic, or Emily O'Reilly, who is a former ombudsman, we should be proud that we punch above our weight. However, the Cathaoirleach is correct that it will not continue to be the case unless we ensure that pipeline is there. The committee members have an opportunity to engage, for example through their work at constituency level in encouraging young people. It is something we in EMI do. We support the Government's EU jobs strategy and work with partners and stakeholders to provide career clinics. We are all over the country participating in careers fairs and jobs fairs and speaking at student societies on the campuses of universities and colleges. That is hugely important

The language support will also be key, particularly at primary school level. Given how multiethnic and multinational Ireland is, we have a real opportunity to harness the languages and really ramp that up. However, it will require continued investment. It is welcome to see that going on, but it will not happen overnight and the committee's support in continuing to encourage the Government to continue to engage on this issue is important.

On the committee's work and the dissonance and separation between Ireland and Europe, I would encourage constant debate, conversation, engagement and town hall participation. The Cathaoirleach kindly spoke at an EMI conference on AI. That type of constant conversation and representation is hugely important.

The Deputy's third question was about a united Ireland.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Yes, it was about the change to the question.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

The other question was on the representation.

As I said, we take the feedback on board very seriously. We work with the polling companies. Given the new EU mandate and the increasing conversation about the constitutional make-up of this island, we wanted to look at it. We wanted to get a greater insight into it and those were the findings. However, we are happy to work with the committee members and get their comments and feedback because this is important for us.

It is really valuable for us as we take on board comments and feedback that enable us to further refine, re-hone and improve our questions in our polling. We want to support members in their work and their outreach by delving into and providing a snapshot and an insight, notwithstanding all the health warnings around polls that understandably are there. It enables members to have a useful framework against which they can look to see what their constituents and the public in Ireland feel about a number of issues that are so relevant to the members and their ongoing work in this committee.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Does anyone need to come back in on any other issue or ask any further questions?

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I have an observation. Initially I looked at page 16 and the question on where people get their information from about EU issues. It said social media was 12%. Question 14 B on the opposite page asks what platform people get most of their information from on EU issues. It says that traditional media is 12%, which obviously contradicts the point I found interesting. These figures are on pages 16 and 17.

Also, the whole lack of collegiality that Ursula von de Leyen displays, as the Chairman has said, has had a really negative impact on people's view of the EU.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

On the point raised by the Senator about platforms that were used, the people who chose social media were then asked a follow up question.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I see.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

If the person had picked social media, the second question asked about which platforms. They themselves selected these. That is why the traditional media is there. I know it is a bit unusual there but this is the respondents choosing.

On the point about social media in general and young people, another member today mentioned that she was surprised social media was so low. When we look at the demographics among the youth population it is far higher. The demographic breakdown here is really important. Obviously the traditional media is more commonly used by older segments of the population.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I forgot that the Cathaoirleach had asked about women and some of the responses. I apologise that I omitted to respond to that. One of the key takeaways, and one of the most startling findings for me, across the pool was the difference between men and women in terms of favourability on some of the questions. That was a key stand-out finding. Normally we see it on the age demographics but this year it was particularly notable on the difference between men and women in their views on some of the questions.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

It is not that women are less in favour, it is usually a "Do not know". Their response is far higher as a "Do not know". There is a huge discrepancy between women and men in the "Do not knows", which is really interesting.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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In that instance specifically they were saying they did not feel their views were represented.

Ms Lorna Hayes:

Yes, but they were only marginally different to the men's responses, which was 44%. Actually 10% more, roughly, said "Do not know". This was common across all the responses.

Robert O'Donoghue (Dublin Fingal West, Labour)
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On whether we are quite happy to expand the European Union, the poll did not ask any questions on people's attitudes towards treaty change. While wanting to expand is all very well and good, and people may be happy with that, there is only really one way to do it, in my opinion.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

No, we did not ask on treaty change but as an organisation that has gone through about nine EU referendums it is certainly something. I do not think we should be the starting off point. Colleagues will have heard me reference this before and treaty change is something that came up on the Conference on the Future of Europe. The EU has enough of a workload and an agenda at the moment to try to work on some of the challenge we spoke about. I would not necessarily be rushing headlong into treaty change at the moment, and not during the Irish Presidency.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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On the point made about the responses from women being "Do not know", it is very strange that this information is coming out in the survey. Does this signal a lack of confidence? I have never heard this in relation to surveys or polls previously. Is something happening that we are not aware of on that?

With regard to EU-US, I am a bit surprised that this would be a big huge issue but I presume this was around the time of the tariffs?

Ms Lorna Hayes:

We cannot answer definitively but I would imagine it is more lack of confidence than women not actually knowing, for some reason. It is something worth exploring more. In the future we are thinking of doing focus groups on one or two of the issues with people so we can delve a bit deeper into the reasons. We could also look at the gender dimension if we do that.

On the Deputy's other point about EU-US, our poll happened in late March just a few weeks after President Trump and President Zelenskyy had that meeting in Washington. Very much on the agenda were: the US talking about potentially excluding the EU from peace negotiations with Russia; matters about NATO; and tariffs that were going to happen. This might explain the prominence of that issue.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is all worthwhile information. On the question of which issues are people most concerned about at an EU level, how exactly was this framed? There is the cost-of-living question in the poll, which is straightforward: nobody was saying there is too much money. As for the migration question, one could possibly argue that someone might have an issue that the European Union has become overly robust but I would say that is not the issue for most people. The response to the question on the Russia-Ukraine conflict could probably fall into a number of things in relation to the European Union: the people who believe it has not been sufficiently forceful against Russia; whether they believe they would still be happy enough to have certain aspects; and whether people have a particular issue on the associated migration. I am just wondering. It is probably the case there is a possibility of follow-up questions on that question. How exactly was that done? Was that a checklist or was it on the basis of the information they provided?

Ms Lorna Hayes:

This question was a checklist. We did an open-ended question on whether the EU is moving in the right direction or the wrong direction. That was an open question. The answers there came from the respondents but this one was a checklist. It was linked to our polls in previous years and to the geopolitical climate at the time of doing the polls. That is why we selected these categories. We had stand-alone questions on Russia-Ukraine and Israel-Palestine last year. That is why we asked them again but they are also embedded with other options. We cannot answer but the Deputy is right in querying the Russia-Ukraine question. Is it that there is not enough military support; is it that there are too many Ukrainian refugees; or is it the case that there is not sufficient humanitarian support and so on? It is really hard to answer that question.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is fair enough. I was just wondering about it. That is sound. As I said previously, one would never stop if one was to put in all of the questions. Even on the United Ireland piece, a poll would want at least two or three more questions. The responses to the question "Would you support a United Ireland in the EU?" are very positive, with 67% saying "Yes" in the North. I would love to get to follow-up information in relation to that.

We all know these poll results are, overall, very positive numbers but there is a big body of work that needs to be done by the European Union and others. It is fair to say that Ursula von der Leyen, and whoever else, have not played their part in relation to selling the European Union. I heard something in the background-----

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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We will move on to Deputy Butterly.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is about the comparative breakdown over a number of years. This piece is required and particularly in relation to the direction and whether it gets rectified. Again, we would all need to see a lot there.

Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair for trying to interrupt Deputy Ó Murchú. That in itself is a feat at the best of times. My question, or rather observation, is rather less so there would have been time left over for him.

It is really important to home in on the issue of the number of "Do not know" responses from women. I cannot remember the specifics but research published a couple of years ago identified that women, before deciding on "Yes" or "No", want to be confident they have the full suite of options and are well informed. Considering they carry such weight in terms of surveys like this, it is really important that we drill into that. It might be a clear indicator as to whether, in effect, we have time to rectify the decrease, bring the numbers back up and identify real issues and how to address them.

Like Senator O'Loughlin, I would be happy to be of help to the witnesses at any stage in seeking to improve the situation, particularly when it comes to promoting Europe among the youth. The Erasmus+ programmes and getting information into schools go hand in hand as part of that effort. We need young people to feel more European and to be out there integrating better in Europe. The migration statistics from Ireland into Europe are quite low compared with those of other countries.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

I could not agree more with Deputy Butterly regarding the responses from women. It is something for us to take away from the meeting. Is it a question that women answer surveys more honestly in terms of how they feel? We just do not know. As Ms Hayes said, we need to have more detailed focus groups.

On the Erasmus+ programme, having been fortunate enough, along with many others, to be a previous Erasmus participant, I could not agree more with the Deputy. It is something we must continually review.

Deputy Ó Murchú asked about our documentation. I have the full deck in front of me and I am happy to send it on by electronic copy. I will leave it here.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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We will circulate copies to members.

Ms Noelle O'Connell:

It sets out all the various narratives.

I absolutely appreciate the points Deputy Ó Murchú made regarding the EU leadership. One point I would make is that the EU is not perfect, its leaders are not perfect and they do not get everything right at all times but we should not lose sight of the solidarity this country received during the worst and most challenging times of Brexit. The solidarity and support on the Brexit issue from the Commission, and people like Michel Barnier and President von der Leyen, were unwavering and really important to Ireland at a particularly tricky time.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Hayes and Ms O'Connell for giving us the benefit of their experience, expertise and insight. The survey is full of information and offers some really interesting and important insights. I thank them for the work EMI does, which is hugely important in highlighting European issues across Ireland.

We will now go into private session. The next meeting of the committee will be at 3.30 p.m. next Wednesday, 16 July.