John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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There are no apologies. The first item on the agenda is the engagement on matters relating to rural and community development with the Minister for Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Dara Calleary, and the Minister of State with responsibility for community development, charities and rural transport, Deputy Jerry Buttimer.

I advise Members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a Member to participate where they are not adhering to the constitutional requirement. Therefore, a Member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting in this regard. I ask any Member partaking in the meeting via Microsoft teams that, prior to making their contribution, they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech which may be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if Member or witness statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, I will direct them to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction. I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are switched off or on silent mode.

This committee welcomes the opportunity to engage with both the Minister and Minister of State in the Department on the many important issues facing citizens in the rural and community development domain. Communities, both rural and urban, are the lifeblood of society. They are the social fabric of the country and their important contribution to society cannot be overstated. The committee wishes to support those communities and ensure the opportunities and supports are put in place to facilitate what communities do best to thrive, both now and into the future. The committee looks forward to engaging constructively on these matters throughout the parliamentary term.

I invite the Minister, Deputy Calleary, to make his opening remarks.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach. Thar mo cheann agus thar ceann an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Buttimer, táimid an-bhuíoch den choiste, den chléireach agus den Chathaoirleach as an deis seo chun obair na Roinne don chéad cúig bliana eile a phlé.

We have already had a discussion about the estimates in the select committee but I welcome the chance to speak to the joint committee on our priorities for the next five years. The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, and I will be working closely on these priorities and will continue to grow the Department. I thank the officials in the Department who work closely with us in these priorities throughout the country.

As the committee will know, for 2025, gross expenditure of €575 million is budgeted, consisting of €317 million in current expenditure and €258 million in capital expenditure. Regarding the split across programme areas, €212.7 million is allocated for the rural development and the islands programme area; €249.5 million is allocated for the community development programme; a further €6 million is allocated for the work of the Charities Regulator; and €106.7 million is allocated for the Gaeltacht programme area.

The €212.7 million provided for the rural development programme, including the islands, is made up of €170.4 million in capital funding-----

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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I hate to interrupt the Minister but I think he may be on the wrong statement. Is that for the select committee?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, it is more or less the same. Capital funding is of particular importance for the rural development programme. The funding allocated in 2025 will ensure continued delivery under schemes, including LEADER, the rural regeneration and development fund, town and village renewal, local improvement scheme and CLÁR. These schemes are well established and are contributing to positive impacts for towns, villages and rural areas throughout Ireland. With regard to the allocations for each area, we are maintaining funding for RRDF. Funding of €42 million is being provided for the LEADER programme and an additional €2 million is bring provided for CLÁR. Funding for the LIS will also be increased by €2 million.

Earlier this morning, we also welcomed the transfer of the Gaeltacht function into the Department. Having these three core functions – rural development, community development and the Gaeltacht – makes for a coherent Department, with synergies across the three areas.

Whether we are maximising the impact of capital investment, supporting and empowering communities across the country or driving the development of our Gaeltacht areas, we are focused on ensuring that each area of the Department is working collectively and working across government to deliver for our communities.

Regarding priorities for the coming years, the commitments in the programme for Government, as backed by the finance we approved this morning, are a key focus. The programme for Government is clear on the importance of this Department and the vital role of our schemes in supporting rural development, empowering communities and helping to drive regional balance. We will continue to have a strong focus on ensuring the continued impact of schemes, such as RRDF, LEADER, the town and village renewal scheme and the community centre investment programme.

The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, has line responsibility for community development and charities. This is an area where our schemes, which include the community services programme and the social inclusion and community activation programme, better known as SICAP, play a vital role in both supporting communities and helping disadvantaged individuals. This ensures the positive impact of these schemes. That disadvantaged communities, rurally and urban, are supported will be a key part of the Department's work.

I mentioned the transfer of the Gaeltacht function. While I am conscious that that is dealt with in a separate committee, there are many important priorities that are supported by the programme for Government. These priorities include: continued support for our Gaeltacht support schemes; the development of capital projects in our Gaeltacht areas; and implementation of the national plan for Irish language public services.

On priorities, while schemes and programmes operated by my Department are vital for communities throughout the country, having a strong policy platform is also a key objective for my Department. We are currently working on the next iteration of our rural future policy. Work has also commenced on the next policy for the community and voluntary sector. There is excellent engagement across government with the relevant sectors and with the public on these policies.

The Chair has expressed an interest in having a hearing on Our Rural Future at some stage in the autumn, which we will gladly try to facilitate during that process. We hope to have the new Our Rural Future document ready for publication later this year or early in 2026. It has been the scaffolding document for much of our work over the past number of years.

I thank the officials in the Department. This is a Department that speaks to the best of rural Ireland, with key offices in counties Mayo, Galway and Dublin. We work closely with our colleagues in Údarás na Gaeltachta, na Forbacha. Throughout the country, my Department's officials are working hard with local development companies and local authorities, but most importantly with communities that have ambition for their communities and are driving on that ambition. By working with this Department and with who we working with, we can make for a much better change.

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister and Minister of State. I will open the floor to members. Any members who are participating online should use the raise-hand feature. We will get to them in good time.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister, Minister of State and officials for attending the committee. I am coming off a high of good news, given that just last week, we managed to open the courthouse in Portumna with a significant investment of €2.9 million from the Department. It is important to point out that it was delivered on time and within budget. That was down to the collaboration between the Department and its officials and the local authority. It has taken a while for the local authorities to build up their teams and have the skill set that is required. I acknowledge and thank the Minister and Minister of State for that.

Needless to say, Portumna was not the only project afoot across Galway county. When projects come through the strategy and feasibility studies and work starts with local authorities, do we have a sufficient pipeline of funding to ensure that we can continue growing them? The likes of the Gort public realm and the purchase of the convent in Gort, which is being worked out with the local community, are seen as key enablers.

Regarding new projects coming on stream, the Minister referenced €60 million under RRDF funding. Is that an annual turnover? Does the Minister plan to see that budget growing? As good stories get told, more communities will get ambitious. More communities will see what potential is in their areas for bringing alive buildings that can speak to the arts and culture, protect the past and look to the coworking spaces of the present and future. Is there enough funding?

Rural transport is under the responsibility of the Minister of State. It is a key enabler, particularly in Galway. People in Cork will sometimes say that theirs is the second largest county, but we in Galway would say ours is the second largest county. We have great rural transport schemes, but we are missing the rapid charging of the electric vehicles, EVs, in rural areas. While there has been a great roll-out of EV charging throughout the country - I do not wish to take from that - but in rural areas like Portumna, Local Link has the Lough Rea route, the Ballinasloe route and another route that breaks county bounds and goes all the way to Nenagh in County Tipperary. We have good connections there, but the provider has an e-bus. Unfortunately, he has to depend on Supermac’s in Lough Rea to charge it. Is there a mechanism or conversation within the Department relating to where there is a hub with a number of routes being provided?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Portumna project is fantastic. I commend the Senator on her work on that. We are putting capital delivery teams in place across every local authority so that each has a core group of people who have experience in dealing with the Department and who can deliver those projects on the ground. In the context of delivering projects, there are some stand-out local authorities and some that are less stand-out. We have appointed a senior official in the Department to engage and liaise with capital delivery teams on the delivery of projects to try to assist those authorities that are not standing out as well to stand out.

Capital funding for RRDF in 2017 was €80 million. It is €240 million now. We will continue to invest in RRDF because, as the Chair referenced, it is a flagship project for many areas.

Many areas and communities are getting a chance to reimagine spaces. All of our schemes have that potential.

I mentioned earlier to Deputy McGuinness that I was in Feohanagh in County Limerick last Thursday evening, where a parochial house that was no longer in use has been reimagined as a community hub. The great thing is that it was not done by the council. It was the local women's group who came together when the house came up for sale by the church. They made an offer to buy it, got together with Limerick County Council, LEADER and the Department, and they now have this fantastic hub that provides community space and meeting rooms. Otherwise, it is a house that would have been left or sold without any community facilities.

That is the point I made at the beginning. We work well with local authorities and development companies, but we work best with communities that are really ambitious. Unless they have that ambition, however, the community will not have ownership of the projects. We can see the difference where a community owns a project and is invested in the project and where it is not. We will continue to work with the local authorities to get them all up to a similar standard of delivery.

The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, will deal with the rural transport side, given that he is also Minister of State at the Department of Transport with that responsibility.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Rabbitte for the question. She is right that it is an issue that needs to be continually addressed and evolved. As she knows, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and I have announced 175 new charging points around the country as part of the wider plan to build a reliable charging network. The NTA has announced 186 sites for electric vehicles, one of which will include buses. I will take back the point made by the Senator. She is right that the work we are seeing and the volume of increase in people using Local Link and Rural Link is phenomenal. We need to enhance that by having more charging points and different types of vehicles, and by moving away from the old-type vehicle to the new electric one. I will take her comments back and will then come back to her with more information regarding the area in question in County Galway.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Despite not being terribly familiar with this committee as I am substituting, I have questions for both the Minister and the Minister of State. Should I address them all at the beginning?

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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That is fine.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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This question is to the Minister, Deputy Calleary. The social inclusion forum was mentioned briefly earlier in this meeting. As he knows, the target in the area of poverty was to reach 2% by 2025. We were starting at 5% and we are still at 5%. What is the strategy?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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That is a social protection issue. I understand we are discussing rural issues today. I am happy to come back to the Deputy on that but I will not be able to give him a detailed response as we are dealing with my other hat today.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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That is no problem. We discussed earlier and briefly the CLÁR review. I welcome the fact it is being reviewed, although it is not before time. Will the Minister set out the timeline for that so we know and the local authorities are aware when that will have changed and when the findings of that review will be enacted or put in place?

With regard to the LEADER rural development programme, there is significant disquiet and concern among the LEADER companies in the State about what is happening at European level. The Minister mentioned in his opening remarks that it is a piece of work that is under way in terms of lobbying for it to remain an integral part of CAP and pushing for that to happen. What engagements has the Minister had to date with the Commission, at Council level or with the European Parliament to ensure it remains part of that and what is his plan with regard to lobbying for it to remain part of that? What is his sense of where other EU member states are at? It is crucial across Europe and certainly in rural parts of Ireland for economic diversification and economic development. There is real concern that the mood music in Europe is not particularly positive or healthy.

I mentioned before that I met the GAA president, representatives of the GAA’s national demographic committee and some of their regional and county demographic committee chairpersons about the rural depopulation issue. Has the Minister met GAA representatives or is he planning to meet them? What was his key takeaway from those meetings?

The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, mentioned that he visited Dungarvan in County Waterford. I thank him for the visit and for his engagement with the community there. As he knows, Dungarvan does not have a community centre but there is a piece of work at play there by the Waterford Area Partnership to examine the feasibility. What level of support will be available to the community to construct and develop a community centre? I would like to hear the Minister of State's thoughts about the model of co-location of a family resource centre, which is another community facility that we do not have in west Waterford, with the community centre? Has there been engagement between the Minister of State’s officials and officials in the Department of children in that regard?

We mentioned rural transport and the Local Link service. I know the Minister of State had a meeting while in west Waterford with the people concerned about what I would say are the top-down changes that were made to Local Link service 361. It is a fantastic route that serves the Gaeltacht in west Waterford and is connected to Dungarvan. That was expanded and had increased capacity but now does not work because of that. It was expanded to go into Youghal, which meant a larger bus and less time on the timetable, and it is now unable to stop at as many stops, which means it is not as suitable for people. This is a large, sparsely populated rural area where people have to walk a considerable distance to get the bus, which now stops at a limited number of stops. Can this be turned back? Can it be brought back to the service that was there, that was used and that people appreciated and liked?

On a final question to the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, governance requirements for community and voluntary groups are arduous and are dissuading people from getting involved as board members. It is something the Charities Regulator but also the Government needs to look at it. In some cases, larger organisations like development and area partnerships have huge governance work to undertake that, in and of itself, is a full-time job for these large organisations, be it in terms of charity regulations, employment regulations or a whole host of other matters. They are not necessarily funded for that work and I believe it is a barrier to their work at this point. I would like to hear the Minister of State's thoughts on that.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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We are finalising the CLÁR review at the moment. We are looking at maps, at Pobal figures around deprivation levels and population changes in recent years, and at the CSO figures in regard to urban-rural classifications. I hope to have that finalised over the summer, because it is well past time to have it done, and to have it ready for the autumn.

With regard to LEADER, the European Commission will publish its draft post-2027 CAP regulations later this year. We also expect that the MFF, multi-annual financial framework, proposals will be published in the middle of this month. As part of that negotiation process, it is Government policy to advocate for a distinct two-pillar, ring-fenced EU funding programme for CAP that supports farm resilience, environmental ambition and rural development. The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, and I will be working very closely with the Minister, Deputy Heydon, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste to secure that. I would imagine it will really kick off from the middle of this month when we will get a sense of the plans, but there is a long way to go in that regard. It is a very clear priority for this Department that we still have a defined funding line for LEADER within the new MFF.

On the question concerning the GAA, we have been engaging and trying to find out about this. The GAA is kind of busy this month, or some counties are. We are anxious to meet them in a format where I get feedback that is as wide as possible, so we are trying to set up the logistics of that. I have noticed from travelling around the country in the past two weeks that there is a lot of interest in that meeting and people are coming up to inquire about it. The system of demographic officers is a fantastic initiative of the GAA and is something we will engage with, not just in the context of Our Rural Future but also in the work of the Department.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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I join the Deputy in thanking and paying tribute to the Waterford Area Partnership, which does great work. On the day we met them, one would have to be blown away by the wonderful array of services and supports available.

Regarding the question on the community centres investment fund, CCIF, that is the Minister, Deputy Calleary's responsibility.

I am sure we will look at all applications when they come in. I am personally not aware of any engagement between the officials of the two Departments around the whole piece on the family resource centre and community centre. It is a bit like the Deputy's other question about the GAA and community shared collaborative spaces. Personally, I do not have an issue with different organisations coming together, whether it is sporting or voluntary, to have a community space. I am not saying this is the case in Waterford but as the Deputy knows, some groups could be territorial around buildings or land. I am not saying that is the case here but for me personally, it is about a collaborative community space and whatever we can do to ensure that facility there, then let us look at that.

In terms of Local Link, we have had a series of engagements. I met the people in Ring, as the Deputy knows, and we had a very good engagement. We spoke with officials from Local Link. I would not agree with the Deputy that it has not worked completely or it has broken down. I think it is working. I believe there have been some modifications to the stop since our meeting, and consultation is ongoing. I have not got an up-to-date position for today's meeting, but I am happy to talk to the Deputy about that again.

In the context of the charities and the imposition on groups, as somebody who is involved in the community voluntary sector myself, I am very much aware of the concerns of community groups. We met the Charities Regulator. We are about to start a new consultation process. I am acutely aware of the demands on the community voluntary sector, recognising that we have passed the Charities Act and that there has to be a certain level of oversight and governance and transparency, as the Deputy knows. I hear at first hand, however, in particular from smaller groups. In Cork, people talk to me about the demands being on them, and they have expressed that to the Charities Regulator. I will listen as part of the consultative process, however, and if we need to make changes or engage further and look at how we can work with the smaller groups then let us do that. To be fair, the Charities Regulator has a very open mind. It is independent, as the Deputy knows, and it is governed by the Act. However, it is about supporting, as we do in the Department, volunteerism and community groups. It is a central pillar of what we do. I am acutely conscious of some of the demands that have been put on people, and I get it from them. However, I will work with the sector to ensure that we have compliance that will not necessarily cost the end of the earth but can allow organisations to move forward and not discourage people from getting involved. As the Deputy said, some people are walking away, unfortunately. In my city of Cork, I met two or three people recently who spoke about the exact issue, but then there are more who are coming in because they see the importance of the adherence to the Charities Act as being an indemnity to them. It is, therefore, about getting it right. The key point I would make is that proportionality is the piece. I hear what the Deputy is saying, however.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to community facilities and where we can have colocation, we need it, and we will have it. Colocation facilities are the way to go. In terms of running them, coming back to the Minister if State's remarks about volunteers, the more colocation, the less pressure there is. Community facilities must also be built with accessibility in mind, both physical accessibility and sensory accessibility. We will be working with local authorities around that going forward. If there is a proposal around colocation, however, I will certainly support it.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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I thank the Minister very much for attending today. I read his statement, and I would like to give the Minister a little bit of feedback on some of the schemes, although I know he has not asked for it. The rural regeneration development fund, RRDF, is an excellent scheme and excellent work is going on throughout the country. The level and quality of the projects that are going on are very impressive.

LEADER is notoriously difficult, especially for voluntary groups, many of which are trying to apply. They nearly need professional help with the processes through the application. It is not fair to have such an arduous application for them. The town and village renewal scheme is good but I have noticed lately that is going towards painting schemes and the painting of facades of streetscapes, which is really just a sticking plaster over actual dereliction in towns. While it may end up nice for six to 12 months, paint starts to crumble. There needs to be something more substantive, maybe by derisking buildings in town centres that are a huge problem or an eyesore or in dereliction. The aim of that could be something more substantive.

The Minister covered the CLÁR programme. CLÁR funding is excellent and welcomed, especially in rural areas and areas of depopulation, but higher populated areas like Cavan town have really nothing to which they can apply. The RAPID scheme that used to be in existence years ago was very valued by local authorities. I was hoping the Minister might take a look at that.

The next issue I want to speak about is the local improvement scheme, LIS, which falls under the Minister's remit. I missed the beginning of the Minister's speech and I do not know if he mentioned it, but there seems to be a huge variance. I come from a county that has very poor soil, and our roads suffer greatly. The LIS is really a lifesaver. We have a very intensive agricultural farming industry going on down boreens. There was an allocation of €519,000 this year. At the minute, however, Cavan County Council is doing applications from 2017. In the Minister's own native County Mayo, it is up as far as 2024. We have 280 applications for assessments at the minute in Cavan. That is huge. It would take €12 million to clear the backlog. We as a committee could get the information from other councils to see where they lie on that scheme and how many applications there are, just so we can compare and see if anything more can be done for counties that are really struggling with road surfacing and roads.

The last issue is enterprise lands. The Minister might think this would fall under the Department of enterprise, but his predecessor did previously approve an RRDF scheme that allowed the council to build a road and put in services. In my town, we have no enterprise park lands developed. It is a barrier to organisations and companies - local and indigenous companies - that want to expand. It happened in Cootehill where they put a road in and put services in and allowed local enterprises to buy sites. It derisks and takes out the bureaucracy for companies that really want it. We have lost in Cavan many businesses to Meath, which is a more wealthy local authority and has done this. The Minister may have some comments on that.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator O'Reilly. There is quite a bit there. With regard to LEADER, it is EU cofunded, so it is not just us that lay down the rules there. It is intensely monitored in terms of funding. The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, and I are very focused on trying to make our schemes as accessible as possible where we can. There still has to be accountability. I do not want my officials having to appear before the Committee of Public Accounts. We want to make sure they are accessible, but it is harder with LEADER because of that EU cofunding piece. There are some local development companies that are brilliant at guiding community organisations through it, and there are some wonderful LEADER officers across the country who, I will not say hand-hold, but guide people through the process. That is an area on which we can work.

There are a couple of different issues with regard to town and village renewal. Town and village renewal does the public realm spaces, absolutely, but we also have a building and land acquisition measure for 2025 where a local authority can purchase a derelict or vacant building. It can actually buy the building and put it back into use for community spaces.

We also give funding for what we call "product development". A local authority might have a product that needs some seed funding or seed research. That measure is also available under the town and village renewal scheme. The painting scheme the Senator mentioned is very important, but it is more important to us that more long-term work is done.

In terms of building or land acquisition, the deadline this year was 2 May. We are currently assessing the applications that were received. I have seen some fantastic examples. An old shop in Leitrim was acquired and is being reimagined as an art space in the middle of the town. It is accessible to young people and people with disabilities and is owned by the local community.

We are looking at the RAPID programme. There have been prolonged discussions in the context of development. The Minister of state is focused in that regard. Exactly the towns mentioned by the Senator are those on which we need to focus in terms or urban deprivation and renewal.

We had a long discussion of LIS earlier, but I will give the Senator some of the figures she is looking for. At the end of December 2024, 4,130 roads nationally were awaiting funding. She is right that there were 279 such roads in Cavan as one has been added since the end of December. We have spent significantly on LIS in recent years. Since it was reintroduced in 2017, €169.9 million has been allocated to LIS alone. We have expanded eligibility, which is adding to the number of roads that qualify for LIS.

I also said earlier that there are cost ranges in terms of square metres. It goes from €15.60 per sq. m in one county to €49.15 per sq. m in another. That is a big range in cost. I will say clearly that Cavan County Council is not one of these, but in 2024, six counties had LIS underspends. That is exactly the reaction I got earlier. I cannot understand it. Some of the them are small counties and other are quite big. That does not help us. The Minister of State and I have made it clear within the Department that LIS is a priority. When counties have underspends while also having large numbers of roads awaiting repair, it does not help our case within government. I am looking to see if we have extra savings in 2025 to allocate more money to LIS to get those lists down. I know that it is very important for communities and people living on those roads.

We do not service enterprise land. As a Department, we share that work with the Department of enterprise, under the regional enterprise plans. I am aware of the particular scheme in place in Cootehill. There is a fantastically proactive enterprise section in Cavan County Council. It worked on that scheme too, and it is something I am more than willing to consider.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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I am hoping that scheme can be rolled out. May I ask one more question?

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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The Senator can come back in again later, if that is all right. We will try to allow everybody in first.

William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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The Minister and I had the opportunity to speak earlier. I support the Senator on the LIS schemes. There is a considerable backlog in my area, too. Did the Senator say that only one road in Mayo has not been done?

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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No.

William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I would say it has a waiting list, too. We will be watching to ensure we all get our own supports. That is all I am trying to say.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy can watch away.

William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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We are again pleading with the Minister in respect of this one area. I know he can say that extra roads have been put in as the result of the change to a requirement for one herd number. That is what would have brought up that issue. Is there anything that can be done? We had a long debate at the local authority to see if we could raise the funds ourselves to try to get the waiting lists down. While six counties sent back money, the other counties were certainly not doing so under any circumstances. I share Senator O'Reilly's concerns and would like anything that could help that scheme.

There is no need to repeat what I said but since the Minister brought it up, I will say that pillar 1 and pillar 2 are hugely important to us. The same is true in agriculture, if the Minister understands. It is the backbone of everything we have at the moment. It is hugely upfront with all the farming organisations to ensure that funding is ring-fenced. If anything happens to that funding, we are all in serious trouble and all the different programmes we speak about are in serious trouble. I urge the Minister to do anything that can be done to ensure that pillar 1 and pillar 2 remain in situ.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I am with the Deputy on the LIS. He will be delighted to know that there are fewer roads outstanding in Laois than there are in Mayo. I have made clear my position on the MFF. It is a position that is shared by the Minister of State and the Minister for agriculture, Deputy Heydon, as well as by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste. It will be a clear priority as we go in to negotiate next year. We need first to retain CAP. That is the first battle. We need to maintain a strong rural development element within that.

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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There is ongoing consultation on the rural Ireland strategy for 2026 to 2030. There has been engagement online and in-person. I attended the recent public engagement process in Charleville in north Cork, as did the Minister of State. The Minister has been involved in a number of such meetings. Looking back, Our Rural Future: Rural Development Policy 2021-2025 showed that if you have a good strategy, you can get very good outcomes. I am looking forward to seeing the process materialise over the next number of months. I look forward to having the Minister before the committee again to discuss that issue when time allows.

I missed Deputy McGuinness's point earlier about the review of CLÁR. Does the Minister have a timeframe for the review of that programme?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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We hope it will be long done by the end of the year. It is a priority in the programme for Government. I want to ensure that it stands up and we have the actual figures and-----

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate that. I will also ask about collaboration with local authorities. In my own local authority, Cork County Council, there has been great collaboration with the Department. Continued collaboration will allow for the success of a number of projects and schemes in the Department. Libraries were mentioned earlier, which are a positive. I am grateful for the ongoing relationship the Department has with the local authorities. My Open Library, for example, is a programme that has been well received in local authorities across the country, including Cork County Council.

The Minister might comment on the community centre investment fund, which has been a game-changer for many rural community centres. As a public representative, I assume the Minister uses community centres for constituency clinics. There has been many a cold winter evening when I have been in community centres. We should review the community centre investment fund and how advanced the community centres have become because of the grants of €25,000, €30,000 and €50,000 that have been available. That money has been very well spent in communities in recent months and years. The Department should certainly consider continuing that fund into the future because community centres are the first port of call for what the members of our community do over a term. We need to ensure that people are included and socially active in their communities and the community centre is very much a part of that.

Funding for men's sheds was mentioned earlier in the context of the Revised Estimates but there was no opportunity to get an answer. Perhaps there will be an opportunity to review the funding for some women's sheds across the system. I know that men's sheds received funding recently, which was well received.

I also ask about Tidy Towns groups. When the small contribution that the Department makes of between €1,000 and €3,000 to the groups is supplemented by the local authority funding, they can make a real impact. Collaboration with local authorities for funding for Tidy Towns groups throughout the country is very welcome indeed.

Perhaps the Minister will reply to my few comments. I will also raise the issue of funding for rural transport, as was mentioned earlier. The continuation of that funding is very important. We were delighted to have the Minister in Newmarket recently for the relaunch of the 243 bus service, which is now providing five services a day for rural towns, such as Newmarket, Kanturk and Mallow, with access to larger urban networks from which commuters can access train facilities and more frequent bus services. The continued roll-out of those will be very important.

There is a number in the pipeline this year in my county and across the country but we need to keep the pressure on to get them active and operational as soon as possible.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Chair is absolutely right on community centre investment. It has been one of the best programmes from the Department. Many of those community centres go back. I do not think there is anyone old enough in the room to remember AnCO. They were developed by communities in the late 1970s and 1980s and they had not been spent on. To give an example of the impact, the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, announced 861 centres and €45.8 million investment in 2022 and 750 of those projects are completed, three years on. There are good reasons for most of the others but it shows the money gets spent. In 2023, we moved focus to new builds. Many communities, particularly new communities, are without centres and we were able to announce €30 million for 12 community centres. Some are going to tender at the moment. This year the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, and I announced €33.9 million for 774 community centres. They are driving on. They really came to the fore this January and February during Storm Éowyn. We saw the importance of having a physical infrastructure as community scaffolding. I thank everybody who stepped up. We are in a budget negotiation and an NDP negotiation for community centre refurbishment and new builds. Separate from that, I am looking at how we can support community centres to be a hub in the context of potential weather events.

On women's sheds, the Minister of State and his officials are negotiating with them. We can work with the men's sheds because there is one national organisation and we liaise with it on funding. We are working closely and have been for some time to establish a national co-ordinating organisation. It is not that we do not want to invest the money; we want to invest it in a way that will get directly to them. Many of them have received funding through the local enhancement programme but we continue to work on getting the structure to put the funding in place.

Through the Tidy Towns programme, we fund the national Tidy Towns awards along with SuperValu. The unit in my Department is working phenomenally hard at the moment because adjudicators are wandering the country doing the assessments. They are lurking around the place. The small team in the Department does amazing work on this competition. It does not just happen. There is a huge scaffolding around it. I acknowledge SuperValu's partnership with it as well. Through the local enhancement programme, the Minister of State announced funding for a number of local Tidy Towns groups recently. We also did Ireland's Best Kept Town, which is the all-island version of Tidy Towns, two weeks ago. I commend everybody involved in that.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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The national forum of women's sheds met with officials from our Department on 25 June to discuss how it might be further supported to become a national organisation. Meetings were also attended by the Department of Health and engagement is ongoing. Women's sheds under the LEP were awarded €76,000 but the Minister and I are working to put in place a mechanism to support them because women's sheds are doing a massive amount of work, as are men's sheds. It is an extraordinary piece in our community, enhancing community facilities and the community offering for people. The Minister and I will continue our engagement with officials regarding that.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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I want something noted about the community centre investment fund, which is really good. It sounds like the Minister is getting really good value for money with the figures he mentioned. Was it €33 million?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The big figure for me was the number of drawdowns. In 2022, there was €45.8 million awarded for 861 centres and 750 of them are completed. That just shows you.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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That is really good and important for local communities but I would note there was a project in my community that got €6 million. That is a lot of taxpayer money in an area that has two community hubs. To put it in context, in that municipal district there is €3.5 million provided for local regional roads while one community centre gets €6.2 million.

I do not remember the Minister saying anything about the rural recreation scheme. I was not in the first-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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We dealt with ORIS quite extensively. Deputy Aird is a big fan of that project.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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As am I. Will it be continued?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. The discussion we had earlier was about reimagining what recreation spaces look like. We have a fantastic programme with Coillte. It is making its existing forestry properties more visitor friendly. In 2024 we provided €1 million in funding for 517 walking trails around the country.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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That is an excellent scheme.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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We fund the plans. The local authorities prepare plans. We fund some local authorities' outdoor recreation officers. We met all those officers last Thursday in Limerick at their conference. It was a super event with super energy and buzz.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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My last question is for the Minister of State and concerns the Charities Regulator. I am aware of an organisation looking for charity status which has been in the process for seven years. Has the regulator a full complement of staff? Is there a backlog in processing applications?

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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First, the regulator is independent. Second, there is frustration around some cases taking a longer time than normal for registration and completion of the process. The Charities Regulator has a duty to go through each case individually and to assess it minutely and carefully under the Charities Act. In some more complex cases, there is a delay. There has been an increase in allocation to the Charities Regulator for this year of €140,000 in terms of capital and a further €470,000 for staff in regard to performing statutory duties. To be fair to the regulator, it is working to address the issues. Some issues that may not seem complex to the public eye may be complex and, therefore, require the seeking of further information and involve issues giving rise to a delay. I am not privy to the ones the Senator is talking about. That is a matter for the regulator. I have met with the Charities Regulator. The Minister and I, if there are any issues with resources, will speak to the regulator. We are not aware of the case the Senator referenced.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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Does it have its full complement of staff?

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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All I can say is the regulator has been given an additional €470,000 to enable it to perform its statutory duties. A number of additional staff have been appointed to assist in terms of compliance, enforcement and registration functions. The increase in staff allocation takes into account the additional responsibilities the regulator has because of the implementation of the Charities Act of last year and the increasing costs of investigations. If the regulator requires more resources, it is up to it to come back to us. The Minister, the officials and I will then engage further. However, it has been given resourcing to employ additional staff.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Sorry for coming in to ask more questions but I love the Ministers' Department, I must admit. I will focus on CLÁR. I commend the Ministers' putting another tranche of funding there. The €100,000 for particular programmes in two municipal areas is welcome. I would love to see a focus on the likes of Changing Places. Would you believe we have only six Changing Places in the entire country that are suitable for people with additional needs? That is where there is a ceiling hoist, the toilet is located so a person can bring a wheelchair beside it, whether to left or right, and the space is big enough for full assistance with two PAs.

Believe it or not, the funding of €100,000 the Department allocated goes all the way. It is absolutely fantastic, but it would be lovely if there were criteria or rules and regulations that would encourage local authorities not to be afraid of projects such as Changing Places. The fact that we have only six in the country would mean that people could plan and get into the rural areas and use the local community facilities.

I did the CLÁR application for my own area. I am not mentioning the area because that would be looking for favouritism. I met with the local authority officials and I tried to step them through using the National Disability Authority’s UDA guidelines and working with what the former Minister of State, Deputy Colm Burke had done previously with regards to how we could use our public toilets, using modern methods of construction or using our library spaces as well. There are great opportunities in areas where there are good recreation amenities where er are trying to attract the whole family in. However, when there are only six in the country, the Department's mechanism will unlock that piece with the CLÁR. Moving the funding allocation from €50,000 to €65,000 up to €100,000 means that we can now be ambitious and include Changing Places. I want to recognise that.

With regards to the outdoor recreation infrastructure scheme, it was great that the Minister pointed out that the Department partners with Cóillte. It does phenomenal work, but the Department enables it to do that work. It gives them that little push that brings more people into the areas to use the trails and everything else. When the Minister and his Department are working on their rural future policy is there a way where we can look to Coillte staff to develop other recreation projects beyond the hikes and trikes? They could be encouraged to open coffee shops or to develop additional facilities that would accommodate everyone and when they are developing trails, they would ensure they are wide enough for people who use a powered wheelchair so they are able to access the whole facility. That would be welcome.

Where does social farming fit in under the umbrella of the Department? Is there funding for that or is the Department partnering with other Departments to do that?

The philanthropy strategy is interesting. There are a lot of good people and a lot of interested organisations. How can they get involved and receive the support they will need? This could be a game-changer. If people want to get involved; how can we assure them that their funding can be taken and that they can partner with the various organisations while at the same time protecting them in the delivery?

The one thing that is critical in the Minister’s Department is if an organisation does not spend the money by a certain date, the local authorities will take it back. That is who we ensure delivery. The deadlines are welcome. Flexibility is tight but that is okay because we want to get the job done before we move on to the next one.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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When it comes to outdoor recreation walks, Coillte is working with us well. They are also identifying commercial activities that are there. We visited Rossmore Forest Park in County Monaghan in March. It is an excellent example. There is a licensed coffee truck there. Coillte also have the space to consider ziplines and so on that would increase the visitor experience. Rossmore has experienced one of the biggest increases in visitor numbers over the past five years. Where it has the space, Coillte is willing to look at developing those sorts of facilities. There are other businesses in some of these areas and I do not want to displace any of them. Where possible, I am in favour of us doing more to enhance the visitor experience. I have seen examples of successful ORIS projects. Roscommon County Council built a pontoon in Lough Key Forest and Activity Park that is wheelchair accessible. Wheelchair users can use the pontoon to get on a boat. It is a fantastic example. There are wonderful examples all over the country.

The Senator is right that the increase in the CLÁR funding to €100,000 this year has opened up possibilities. There are three streams to CLÁR this year. Measure 1 is developing community amenities and facilities. Measure 2 related to mobility, in particular cancer care, Meals on Wheels, and community transport. Measure 3 is specifically focussed on our islands and community infrastructure and community transport. As part of integration of Roinn na Gaeltachta into the Department, we have given extra allocations to Gaeltacht areas. I will be looking at all measures, including CLÁR, the town and village renewal scheme and ORIS, to see how we can support access for people with physical disabilities but also for people with sensory needs. That goes back to the point made by the Chair earlier about community centres. They were built when in many cases there was no awareness of physical accessibility and definitely no awareness about people's sensory needs. We will examine how we can enhance funding in this area.

I will come back to the Senator on social farming. She has done massive work in this area and I happy to engage with here on how we can provide support. We can support it through LEADER applications that come into the Department. We will be happy to look at any social farming LEADER plans that comes in.

The Minister of State will answer her query on philanthropy.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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I join the Minister in complimenting the Senator on the work she did around social farming during her tenure in the Department of Health. Where a local development company identifies a need, social farming initiatives are funded under the PsyCap programme. In certain parts of the country, such as County Kerry, great work is being done. In other areas, social farming is funded by the HSE. It is an area the Minister and I have spoken about and we would like to do more on it. I visited west Cork recently and I witnessd a disability organisation rooted in rural Ireland looking to expand its remit. I immediately thought of the Senator and the area of social farming. The work she did was phenomenal. I speak as someone involved with an organisation that is involved in this area.

I am keen to progress the national philanthropy policy. It was launched in 2023. It is a very progressive, wide reaching and warmly welcomed strategy. It is about deepening our understanding and knowledge of the role of philanthropy and creating an environment where we can engage with philanthropists for the social good. We have witnessed how it can work for the benefit of people in many ways. The Department has a funding agreement with Philanthropy Ireland and Charities Institute Ireland to implement the recommendations from the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising to facilitate the growth of private donors in the non-profit sector. For me and the Minister , it is about taking the five key objectives to explore how we can get more people to get involved to see the benefit that can be derived from philanthropy. I commend the officials in the Department on the work they are doing in this regard. As a country, we are probably unique when it comes to this initiative. It is a wonderful policy. We must expand it and get more buy-in. We want to become a leader in Europe and the world in this field. Our officials are committed to it. There has been wide engagement. I am enthused by it. I look forward to working with Senator Rabbitte on it. If she can play any role in that, she is very welcome. The area of philanthropy is something that we need to more of as a country.

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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Following on from Senator Rabbitte's point on access for people with disabilities on our recreational walks, we did something previously with local authorities to improve access at beaches. We made beach buggies available. Perhaps it is something that we can work on through the Department. At the moment, if you do not have a powered wheelchair, it is hard to navigate those walks. A disability buggy would help people access these walks. Could the Minister work with his officials to see if something could done? We have a number of islands of the coast of Cork. I thank the Ministers for their announcement recently about investing in island communities. Programmes such as the community centre investment programme have assisted many of our island communities throughout the country.

Finally, mobile libraries are a huge asset in rural Ireland. In County Cork, we have gone to the fore and purchased a number of new mobile libraries in recent years. What is the Department's position on those? Does it and the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, intend to continue to fund mobile libraries? We are investing in many new libraries and many new libraries, which have been mentioned here today, have been invested in, refurbished and opened in our towns and villages. The mobile library offers a very worthwhile service to very remote communities. A comment on future investment in that might be appropriate. I thank the Minister and Minister of State.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair. Our islands are absolutely vital. We have done quite a lot of work on them. We have increased funding to the non-Gaeltacht islands and to the co-ops and organisations on those islands in the previous number of weeks to bring them in line. The funding allocation is €11 million in current and €5 million in capital, which represents an increase. The majority of our current expenditure goes to subsidised transport to islands and we are currently subsidising 27 passenger, cargo and air services to 19 of our offshore islands. A lot of work has been done by the unit in recent years on that expenditure and ensuring it is as relevant as possible.

We just announced funding of €828,000 for small island capital projects such as roads, piers and public facilities. We have a number of major capital projects identified for some specific islands. We work closely under the Gaeltacht side of things for the Gaeltacht islands as well, which have additional supports for their activities.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair for raising the issue of the next generation mobile library vehicles. Our Department is expending €2.6 million on 12 next generation mobile library vehicles. I highlight to the committee a genuine position, which is that each of those vehicles has to be specially constructed. That leads to difficulties with delivery time because of global supply chain issues. Our Department has approved €2.6 million and we are awaiting the delivery of specialised mobile library vehicles. I am pleased to tell the Cathaoirleach and the committee that funding for 12 is approved and they are on the way.

William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I have one question about the ORIS. I also thank the Minister for his work on the islands. You might wonder why I am asking a question about the islands but my sister lives in Clifden and she continuously tells me about her work out on Inishbofin. They greatly appreciate what is being done.

I have a question from the following point of view about the ORIS. I thank the Minister for giving us €50,000 for two projects and a feasibility study in County Laois. One of them is a project I am trying to get going, namely, the O'Moore Way, as we are calling it, just outside Portlaoise. I have spoken to the Minister about it. It is very important. I want to acknowledge very publicly what Coillte is doing and how Coillte is very encouraging to the public and allowing them the use of their facilities. As people say to me, they discovered woods in and around County Laois during Covid they never knew existed. It has really escalated since Covid and it is lovely to see it. There are reasons behind that as well. It is very difficult for a parent or parents with small children to walk in urban areas at the moment because of the amount of traffic. It is really welcome.

We hope to have Bord na Móna in here. It is very important that Bord na Móna do likewise. There was a lot of infrastructure in our bogs over the past 50 and 60 years because of the amount of peat that was taken away from our bogs. There were ordinary railway lines within those for moving the peat into the factories. They are in situ and I ask Bord na Móna to co-operate with committees that are out there and willing to give up their time to promote these projects, with the Minister's Department's funding, and that we please put these in place. The problem I have - there is no point saying it is not - is waiting for the overall development of bogs. With the number of bogs we have in this country, it will take years and years to develop it in whatever way they are going to do it now in diversifying them into wind farms, solar farms or whatever it is. In the meantime, the infrastructure that is in the bogs that can be used should be used and I encourage the Government to talk with Bord na Móna about it. All the peat is gone so we are not going back there again. There is natural infrastructure there that the public is crying out to use and it is an awful pity we cannot progress it without having to wait for the overall plans of what Bord na Móna wants to do.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Aird. The Coillte programme is fantastic and Coillte are very good partners but equally, we invest €15 million into Coillte over five years. It is a significant investment on our part. We are actually in negotiations and very early talks with Bord na Móna around what we can do with their properties as well. The Deputy just said it himself. There are some amazing spaces that could be used and amazing access to infrastructure there already that would really work. They are two good schemes and it comes back to the Deputy's first point this morning about reimagining what outdoor recreation looks like.

John Paul O'Shea (Cork North-West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister, the Minister of State and their officials for their contributions today and providing the various briefing materials in advance, which assisted the committee in its deliberations. We look forward to their continued engagement. We will now suspend for a few minutes to facilitate the departure of our witnesses and we will resume in private session to discuss committee business.