John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I advise members of the constitutional requirements that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, a member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask any members partaking via MS Teams to ensure that prior to their contribution to the meeting they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus. Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name, or in such a way as to make him her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity.

Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory relating to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that members comply with any such direction.

I welcome the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Harris, and his officials. The format of the meeting is that we will hear the Tánaiste's opening statement, followed by a question-and-answer session with members. It will be done on an indication basis. It will be seven minutes, including the answers. If there is time at the end, we will afford additional time to the Tánaiste and members. When it comes to that I ask members to be concise in their questioning. I remind members that the committee has no role in approving the Estimates. It is an ongoing opportunity for the committee to examine departmental expenditure, to make the process more transparent and to engage in a meaningful way on relevant performance issues. I thank the Department for the briefing note it provided. The Tánaiste is the most senior politician who has come before the committee in this term. He is very welcome. We are anxious and keen to hear what he has to say, not just about the Estimates, but also about some other issues that are very much on the minds of the members of the committee.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chairperson and the members of the committee. At the outset, can I return that sentiment? I am eager to work constructively with this committee. The world is a volatile place at the moment. A country like Ireland has a role in standing up for multilateralism, human rights, international law, collaboration and co-operation at an EU level. It is a role that we all want to proudly see our country continue to play. With that in mind, at the outset I wish to pay tribute to the staff of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade - our diplomats - who are based abroad, most particularly those who have been working in the Middle East region. This afternoon, I hosted a virtual video conference call with them to be updated by them on the latest situation. During the call, I thanked for them for the work they are doing. They work hard for Ireland and work with distinction. I am conscious that they are working in a difficult, dangerous and volatile environment. I thank them and their families for the work they do on behalf of our country.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to present the 2025 Revised Estimates for the Foreign Affairs and Trade group of Votes: Vote 27, which is International Co-operation, and Vote 28, which is Foreign Affairs and Trade. Members have received the advance briefing notes provided by my Department on those two Votes. For 2025, the overall gross Estimate for this group of Votes is €1.314 billion, including a capital allocation of €50 million. This represents an increase of €103 million on the final 2024 allocation.

We are living through a period of huge geopolitical challenge and upheaval. The unprecedented intensification of the conflict we saw between Israel and Iran poses an immense risk to regional security, with developments over the weekend demonstrating the very real risk of wider escalation. The scenes we have seen of rocket attacks and civilian casualties in Iran and Israel have been disturbing. Yet again, it is a civilian population that pays the price for war. At yesterday's meeting of EU foreign ministers, I once again called for urgent steps to de-escalate the conflict and to allow for space for dialogue and diplomacy. I have also made it clear that the deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure is a violation of international humanitarian law. We need all parties to work to see regional stability established and sustained, and we need a lasting diplomatic solution to Iran's nuclear programme. The nuclear agreement that has been in place over many years has been imperfect, but we can objectively say that we have achieved more as a world through diplomacy in preventing Iran getting access to nuclear weapons than will ever be achieved through military aggression. I was struck by that in my engagement with European colleagues. It is through diplomacy and dialogue that we actually help to ensure that Iran never has nuclear weapons. I have not met anybody - certainly, nobody in the European Union - who wants Iran to have nuclear weapons. However, the way we advance this is through dialogue. I hope the ceasefire we have seen in the past few hours - volatile and currently temporary as it is - is now used to try to sustain a diplomatic dialogue. A ceasefire is not an end in itself. It is a means to an end, and in this case the end must be a negotiated diplomatic dialogue that brings us forward to an agreement.

We took the decision to temporarily relocate our embassy in Tehran back to Dublin. We took that decision in close consultation with European counterparts and in the interest of keeping our diplomats safe. The focus on developments in Iran is understandable. However, there will be unanimity in this committee, in these Houses and in this country that we cannot allow that to take our attention away from the catastrophic situation in Gaza. What is happening to the people of Gaza is simply unconscionable, and this is a point I made again at the Foreign Affairs Council. The renewed Israeli military offensive and the plans to establish full control of the Gaza Strip are extremely alarming. We need an urgent end to hostilities. That statement does not do any justice and cannot do any justice to the level of appalling devastation in Gaza, which is unimaginable to us and is unconscionable. From day one, we in Ireland have consistently called for a hostage release deal, for an immediate ceasefire and for humanitarian aid to flow. It is not just Gaza: although the situation in Gaza is as I have described, the situation in the West Bank is also alarming and utterly unacceptable.

Yesterday at the Foreign Affairs Council, we saw small steps of progress. It is progress that Ireland sought a long time ago and would have liked to have seen go further a long time ago. Yesterday, the Foreign Affairs Council of the European Union published the review of the association agreement between the EU and Israel. We saw the High Representative, effectively the foreign policy chief of the EU, Kaja Kallas describe clearly and publicly that the outcome of that review is that Israel is in breach of its human rights obligations under Article 2 of the agreement. We have all known that for a long time. We have been calling for that for a long time. It is not insignificant that this is now the finding of a review. Yesterday, Ireland joined nine other European countries in asking that the European Union seek legal advice on its obligations under the International Court of Justice, ICJ, advisory opinion. We have done that domestically. However, the EU has to ensure it is in compliance with the ICJ advisory opinion. We joined nine other member states in asking that they review trade in terms of goods and services at an EU level with the occupied Palestinian territories. Those are two important developments.

We need to see the high-level conference on a two-state solution in New York be rescheduled as quickly as possible. For understandable reasons, it could not happen last week as planned, but we need to see that progress. Today, the Government has agreed to progress legislation prohibiting trade with illegal settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory in line with a commitment in the programme for Government. This morning at the Cabinet meeting, I secured agreement for the general scheme. The committee will receive this shortly. It will be either later today or first thing tomorrow. I will be formally writing to the Chair, as I have to ask the committee to initiate the pre-legislative scrutiny progress. I look forward to the committee's engagement on this important legislation. I look forward to receiving their report and scrutiny as quickly as possible. I look forward to that engagement being constructive and meaningful on the part of my Department.

On the issue of services, I do not have a policy difficulty with including services, but I have to tease through the legalities of this with this the committee. As Senator Black and I discussed previously, that is what pre-legislative scrutiny is for in many ways. This is a chance to tease this through. Let us not just jump over, as we tend to do, the fact that we are the first country in the European Union to publish legislation to ban trade with the occupied Palestinian territories. That is not a small moment for this country; it is an important moment. It is reflective of how the people of this country feel relating to it.

In the context of Russia and Ukraine, Russia's brutal illegal aggression against Ukraine continues. We have seen further horrific attacks on Kyiv and cities across Ukraine over the past two weeks. Yesterday, I met with the Ukrainian foreign minister. Despite two rounds of direct talks, Russia continues to maintain its maximalist demands ahead of any ceasefire. Remember Ukraine has said it would accept an unconditional ceasefire with immediate effect, but Russia always has "if", "but" and "maybe" caveats. That is not an indication of a country that is serious about peace or ending the aggression. It is important that we continue to stand by Ukraine. This is an attack on their territory and their sovereignty, but it is an attack on our values. It is an attack on European soil. One of the most important ways that we can provide Ukraine with security guarantees is by bringing it into the European family. Yesterday, we made the point again that we want to see EU accession talks for Ukraine progress and progress as quickly as possible.

With regard to the Estimates we are considering today, it is also why I was proud to announce earlier this year an allocation of €100 million to provide non-lethal military support to Ukraine. This support will be provided through partnerships with EU member states already procuring for Ukraine.

On the issue of international co-operation and specifically Ireland's official development assistance programme, this has always been integral to our foreign policy agenda. It reflects our continuing commitment to global solidarity, fighting hunger in our world and reducing poverty. For 2025, the allocation to Vote 27 for the international development programme managed by my Department is €810.3 million. This is the highest ever level of expenditure in the 51-year history of the Irish aid programme. I want to say that because right across the world, governments, politicians and parliaments are having to make decisions about lots of competing priorities. I am proud that we live in a country where I think there is cross-party consensus on the importance of our official development assistance programme. At a time when others are cutting back, we are delivering our highest ever budget in the 51-year history of Irish aid.

The total volume of ODA delivered across government is expected to exceed €2 billion, and this includes the expected first-year costs for Ukrainian refugees in Ireland. The official figures for Ireland's ODA last year, released by the OECD in April, show a total of over €2.2 billion or 0.57% of GNP. With the Ukrainian refugee supports excluded, the ODA percentage of GDP is 0.41%, and I can provide further details on that as well. Reaching the furthest behind first is the overarching frame of Ireland's whole-of-government policy for international development. In our support for the sustainable development goals, we have a central focus on poverty, gender equality and action on climate change, while accelerating progress towards meeting the sustainable development goal targets.

Recent cutbacks in ODA by some major donors are having devastating effects in our world. Ireland is staying the course and will stay the course, and we are working closely in the European Union to make sure we co-ordinate support for our UN and other partners as they now find themselves having to restructure and reprioritise their work. For Irish development agencies, the cutbacks are also presenting significant challenges, and we have assured them that we will continue to provide support that is both predictable and flexible. I hope this will help partners to adapt as well as possible to what are rapidly changing contexts.

Over the past 20 months we have witnessed the unfolding of a humanitarian catastrophe of staggering proportions in Gaza. We have increased our support to UNRWA while others suspended theirs in 2024. We have provided €58 million to UNRWA since 2023 and we continue to advocate for partners in the EU, Arab and Gulf countries to increase their support. We continue to support the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority through our humanitarian programming, at the EU and at the UN. We are committed to maintaining our focus on this crisis, on the suffering in Sudan, on Ukraine and on other humanitarian crises that do not receive the same level of media attention.

Briefly on Vote 28, for 2025 the total gross expenditure allocated to Vote 28 is €503.9 million. This is an increase of 49% over the initial 2024 allocation, and the Vote is distributed across two expenditure programmes: programme A, advancing Ireland's foreign policy goals and programme B, the passport service. Programme A accounts for the bulk of the allocation to the Vote, which is €442.5 million. I will focus on some of the larger subheads, which include the bulk of the pay and non-pay administration costs, excluding the passport service. The programme also includes budget associated with the transfer of the trade policy function into my Department and the 2025 allocation to commence our EU Presidency planning for 2026 and the operations associated with that.

We have an allocation for reconciliation and North-South co-operation, and this includes funding of €2 million for the shared island civic fund. We are also currently managing an ambitious expansion of our global footprint in order to deliver on our Global Ireland commitment to double Ireland's global impact and influence to 2025 and beyond. We have opened 22 new missions to date, and this year we will open three new ones as well. The shared island initiative, as members know, is in that Vote, as are the reconciliation fund and the support for the diaspora programme of €16.495 million. The committee will also note contributions to multilateral organisations are there also.

I do not want to go on too long but I have a brief word to say with regard to the passport service. Programme B deals exclusively with funding for the passport service, a key public service provided by the Department. It is not in my script but let me say "thank you" to the passport service. The level of reform we have seen with regard to our passport service is truly impressive. I can say that because long before I was their Minister - I do not endeavour to take any political credit - it has been at an incredible level. I meet people across this country now who, in their kitchen, take out their phone, take their picture on the phone, submit the application and are pleasantly surprised at how quickly the passport arrives. I thank the people who have had to work through an extraordinarily challenging time after Covid and a very significant programme of reform. I had the honour of meeting many of them when I visited the office in Balbriggan recently. It is important to acknowledge that huge amount of work.

Over the past number of years the passport reform programme has overseen major improvements. The standout achievement of the programme was the introduction of the passport online service to our citizens. We often focus, quite rightly, on technological reforms not going well but this went very well. To date this year, over 92% of all applications from all over the world are now submitted through this online channel. The programme continues. Reform must always continue to focus on the future of service delivery by continuing to identify and implement projects to enhance the customer experience and provide for business continuity while maintaining the integrity of the Irish passport. That is really important too. It is such an important document and we need to maintain its integrity as well. We have allocated a further €16.5 million this year from my Department's capital envelope for that reform agenda.

I am very conscious that the Department is now called the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade - not because we like longer titles - and that this Oireachtas committee now encapsulates that too. With all the focus that has quite rightly and understandably been going on with regard to the Middle East in recent days and weeks, let us not forget that this day two weeks will see the ending of the current pause on tariffs between the US and the EU. I am very eager that we support this committee in its constructive and important work, and that we get a framework agreement in place by that date between the EU and the US.

In the last seven to ten days, I spoke with Ambassador Jamieson Greer, President Trump's trade representative. I spoke with Mr. Maroš Šefovi last week and we speak with him on a very regular basis. I do genuinely detect there is a real willingness on both sides to work to get a framework agreement but - I have to say "but" - looking at framework agreements we have seen with other countries and places, 10% being the new norm in terms of tariffs from a US perspective is not without very significant challenges for certain sectors of the Irish economy. We have to continue to push the zero-for-zero argument in the days ahead for as many sectors as possible, while also making sure Europe does not want to introduce retaliatory tariffs. However, if we find ourselves in the position where we have to do this, we will do our best to protect our own national interests. I think I have identified particular sectors around medtech, aviation and agrifood where we have spelled out our concerns in our letter back to the Commission. I will pause there.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste. He will have noted too the very positive comments about Ireland by Michael Bloomberg.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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From a number of perspectives, they were very positive and helpful.

I have three points to make before I go to questions. First, I think everyone here would echo the Tánaiste's comments, and will echo his comments, about the Passport Office. It is an office with which every Member of the Houses interacts. We have all noticed the improvement, so please convey our compliments to it for its hard work.

I wrote to the Tánaiste on behalf of the committee in the last week saying that we stand ready to receive the heads of the Bill regarding the occupied territories. We have also ensured we can facilitate additional meeting time. I thank the clerks for doing that and working so hard behind the scenes on it. What would help us would be to know when the Tánaiste might be able to come because the committee has agreed that both he as the initiator of the Government's Bill and Senator Frances Black would be our first two witnesses. As soon as we could facilitate that, the better. That would be really helpful to us. Our first speaker is Deputy Shay Brennan.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach and the Tánaiste. I want to focus entirely on Vote 28, if I may, and go through some of the details on that. I had a series of questions but the Tánaiste's very detailed brief answered a lot of those for me. I thank him and his officials for that. If it makes sense, maybe we will just do a quick over-and-back. I am conscious of the time. I think I have seven questions for seven minutes so maybe we will be okay here.

The first one is under administration. I see a 54% increase in digital and capital expenses. I am guessing that is some significant IT project. Could the Tánaiste elaborate?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am checking with Mr. Conlan. That was an additional €15 allocation for the passport reform programme.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Okay. That makes sense. Moving to section 9 under administration, €10 million is allocated for the EU Presidency. I will ask the same question I asked at the finance committee. That allocation is a nice round number, which suggests that not a huge amount of planning has gone into it yet. While that is understandable at this stage, where is the bulk of that €10 million anticipated to be spent?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is an initial allocation of what is going to be a much larger budget that will be required for the EU Presidency. I brought a memo to Cabinet last week outlining our plans for our European Presidency. The budget will be many multiples of that. We will be hosting an anticipated programme of approximately 250 events and meetings to take place in Ireland, including 22 informal meetings. That initial €10 million allocation allows us to begin the bulking-up of our staff numbers for the Presidency. Some €7 million of that will be spent on pay, while approximately €3 million will be spent on increasing our office footprint to accommodate those additional staff. The Deputy is right; it is a round number. We had to start somewhere. It will be followed by a much larger allocation for the coming year.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I have two follow-on questions. First, is the Department of foreign affairs bearing the brunt of that cost or will other Departments also be involved in that regard? I notice they also have line items related to the EU Presidency.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It will be a total budget allocated through my Department, excluding security costs which will be dealt with by the Department of justice or the Garda Vote. The OPW will also have a specific line for the various events it will host. My Department will carry the significant bulk in terms of where it will be allocated to.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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When the Minister says the bulk of the €10 million will be spent on additional staff costs, this is clearly a one-off situation. Therefore, will those staff be temporary?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes, they will be temporary. We will increase temporary staff and as well as secondments. We will significantly increase our staffing numbers for the period of the Presidency on a temporary basis.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Okay. I see that staff numbers from 2024 to what is projected for 2025 will go up by approximately 380. I am guessing that is related to the trade function amalgamating with the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The cost of amalgamating the trade function is negligible because we relocated people from the Department of enterprise. The increase in staff numbers to which the Deputy refers relates to the opening of our new missions and the expanded footprint. I can provide the committee with a note on that. It is a combination of the new missions we have opened as well as the additional number of people we are hiring for the presidency.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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In the same section, under promoting Ireland in line A11, there is an increase of approximately €4 million. Is that entirely related to the Expo in Japan?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes, it is entirely down to the Expo in Japan.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Under line A15, Ukrainian assistance totals €100 million. Why is that in Vote 28? It seems to relate to defence expenditure. Why is it taken in the Department of foreign affairs’ Estimate?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is a good question. It is administered through the Department of foreign affairs. That is the way it is done in quite a number of member states. It is a discussion that takes place through foreign affairs. It is an interesting question, but it is done through foreign affairs. This figure relates to the additional €100 million we allocated that we are now going to deploy through procurement structures that two countries have in place, most likely Denmark and Lithuania, for non-lethal equipment.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I am watching the time. I have a couple of quick-fire questions. Under line A12, it states that the number of visitors to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's website has decreased dramatically.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The number of visitors has decreased dramatically.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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It has decreased dramatically from 18 million to 11 million.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There was a surge in travel advice post-Covid, which drove more people to the website during that time.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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That makes sense. I have two final questions. Under public policy impact outcomes, B2 and B3 show that we are seeing a substantial increase in the number of foreign birth registration certificates issued. The increase is multifold. It is up to 36,000 in 2023.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We have seen a significant increase in the number of people applying.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister have any thoughts as to what is causing that increase?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is reflective of the geopolitical situation, particularly in the context of Brexit. The bulk of it relates to the Brexit effect.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Fair enough.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is right; it is a large increase.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to programme C and appropriations-in-aid, we are seeing a €10 million differential, most of which is under a line item, “Mscellaneous”, totalling €7.5 million.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The €7.5 million relates to the sale of the old residence in Washington DC.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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For the benefit of the public watching, the Minister might give us a summary on the Expo in Japan because it is a big deal. It tends to be a big deal. How often does it come around and what is Ireland doing at it? I can come back to him.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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No, it is fine. First, I thank our team in Japan for the work they have done. Indeed, the Taoiseach will visit the Expo next week. The Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment, Deputy Burke, is there this week. It is expected that Expo will attract approximately 28 million visitors. As the Cathaoirleach said, it is taking place in Osaka in Japan. We believe participation provides an excellent platform for public diplomacy for Ireland because Ireland can still remain relatively unknown among the wider Japanese public. The Ireland pavilion has been operating at maximum capacity on a daily basis. We reckon that in excess of 6 million visitors have attended Expo already. The development of the Irish pavilion is a strong example of the Team Ireland’s approach because many Departments and State agencies have been involved. The visitor experience has been curated by the National Museum of Ireland and the National Concert Hall has overseen the cultural programme. As I say, there have been a number of ministerial programmes already. The overall approved budget for the programme is €16.8 million over the three years from 2023 to 2026. I am pleased to say that we completed our pavilion on time and within budget.

World expos are large-scale international events. The Cathaoirleach is right; we use the word "expo" as if everyone has an understanding of it. It is a large-scale international event held every five years. The 2025 World Expo opened in Osaka city, Japan, on 13 April and it will run for six months until 13 October 2025. Approximately 160 countries and international organisations are expected to participate.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister and his officials here. It is really beneficial for the country as a whole that our Minister for foreign affairs is a senior political figure because it emphasises the importance of the role we play. Internationally, a total of €1.314 billion is spent to secure our place and standing in the international community and to allow the State to respond on behalf of the people to international crisis. God knows, as the Minister has outlined, there are more than enough of those at present.

For many years, we have talked about 0.7% of GNI being the target for our development assistance. Will we, in the opinion of the Minister, be able to achieve that by 2030? In asking him that question, I salute the Government because it is doing what other governments are not. Putin and Netanyahu and their murderous regimes are succeeding not just in penalising the people they are attacking, but also in attacking the poor and the impoverished and those who are at risk of climate change and starvation throughout the world by forcing governments to readjust their priorities. There is a moral question for those governments, too.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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First, I agree with Deputy Ó Fearghaíl. One of the perhaps unspoken weapons of war that Putin uses is the turmoil he has created beyond the traditional battlefield, both in the context of the challenges of migration and the migratory patterns that we have seen as a result and the many member states of the European Union and the broader European family feeling the need to significantly increase their defence and security spending, as the Deputy rightly said. Some of them have done that at the cost of their overseas development aid, which is most regrettable. We are clear in this regard. The Deputy will remember that we have been remarkably consistent as a people, even through financial crisis, in seeing the value of overseas development aid.

I have not knocked on any doors around the country where people have said we should be spending less on overseas development. I think people are proud of the contribution we have made. The 0.7% remains where we want to get to. How we get there or when we get there will be a matter for the ongoing budgetary and Estimates discussions we have. We were at, as I said in my opening statement, 0.57% in the last year we have official figures for. I need to be truthful. That is inclusive of the Ukrainian refugee support. It is 0.41% when that is removed. We are moving in the right direction. The commitment - the North Star - remains the same. The exact timeline for arriving at the destination remains dependent on annual budgetary cycles.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Our international climate fund financing is committed to be around €225 million and it looks like we will achieve that. Will we increase that funding into the future? When looking at the overall objective of what we are meant to have, how does the Tánaiste feel when we juxtapose our increasing funding with those major nations that are reducing their contribution?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This is the challenge. I am a big believer in controlling what you can control and I am a big believer in Ireland’s foreign policy and public policy being values-driven and evidence-based. From both the point of view of our values and scientific evidence, we know these are the right things to do and, therefore, we need to continue to do them.

Multilateralism is under attack in many different ways. I saw that myself when I attended the G20 in Johannesburg a couple months back, and saw the disappointing contributions from some large countries in relation to multilateralism.

We are on track to achieve the target, as the Deputy rightly said. We have not made a decision to go above that. I am pleased that this year we will meet our target, which we announced in 2021. In 2021, we said we wanted to get to the point of at least €225 million in climate finance per year by 2025, and we will reach that target this year.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I will put my remaining questions together. Regarding the shared island civic society fund and the reconciliation fund, we see a reduction in funding, if not a reduction in commitment. Why are we seeing that reduction and what does the future hold in that respect?

With regard to enlargement, we are committed to spending €1 million. Are we targeting that at any specific country or countries whose case we want to see advanced?

Regarding our diplomatic footprint, I am full of admiration for our diplomats, at least the great majority of them, and the work they do throughout the world. They carry the message of modern Ireland - our culture, ingenuity, creativity and entrepreneurship - to the world and they open up opportunities. We have increased our global footprint and more missions have been opened. Will that be a rolling programme? What are we likely to see into the future?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There were three questions there. First, on the difference in the funding for the shared island civic society fund, the difference is €4.3 million and it is based on a once-off payment that we made for the appointment of the chair of Irish studies in Cambridge. Our level has been consistent. We topped it up, if you like, one year. It has been an extraordinarily powerful fund. I have seen projects and communities that have already benefited from it. It is interesting. When you go to the North – I was at the North-South Ministerial Council in Armagh last week and I was there at the British-Irish Council the week before – it is interesting how the shared island is now widely accepted as a force for good across political traditions. I take great heart - I mean this sincerely - that it is seen as a good and positive development. More of it, I say.

Regarding EU enlargement, I was at a meeting yesterday of the Foreign Affairs Council. It is utterly wrong. A country has been under attack from brutal Russian aggression and has made so much progress on reforms. Imagine being able to reform while being attacked. It has got to the point where the European Commission is crystal clear in its analysis that the talks should begin and the clusters should be opened in terms of accession talks, and there is a country, namely, Hungary, that is blocking that. Shame on them. It is an appalling act. It is not just in Ukraine’s interest to join the European Union, it is in Europe’s interest. It is in our security interest and it is in our interest in every sense. The Polish only have a few days left of their Presidency but they have been ready throughout their Presidency to try to open talks, and Hungary is obstructing it.

In general, the European Union has been too sluggish when it comes to enlargement. Of course enlargement has to be merit-based and criteria-based. We should never seek to dilute that. To be a member of the European Union, you need to reach standards and reforms – absolutely. At the same time, there are quite a few countries that have been knocking on the door for far too long, and I hope and expect that when Ireland takes up the Presidency, this is an area we will put focus on. Enlargement is one of the best means of protecting European democracy and ensuring our continued prosperity.

As the Deputy rightly said, we established a fund last year to provide practical support to candidate countries to advance their EU reforms. In addition to the opening later this year of three embassies in three candidate countries - Bosnia and Herzegovina, Moldova and Serbia - this is a concrete way of demonstrating our commitment to EU enlargement. Progressing EU enlargement will also be a priority of our Presidency.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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If it is agreeable to the committee, I have asked Deputy Shay Brennan to fill in for ten minutes. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to be associated with the remarks on the passport service, which is an excellent service that has gone from strength to strength, as well as with the remarks on our diplomatic staff. The experience of diplomatic staff in Tehran and Tel Aviv in recent days and the incident in the West Bank some weeks ago reflects the fact that serving Ireland internationally on a diplomatic level is not without risk. We owe them a great debt of gratitude. I think there is a consensus in this House that our diplomatic staff serve us very well in representing us as a country.

My first question relates to Vote 28, subhead A8, and human rights obligations in terms of the EU, but I would extend that also to the EU’s human rights obligations. There was a meeting yesterday, which the Tánaiste referred to, on the EU-Israel association agreement. The outcome of that was disappointing, to put that off again by a month in the context of a genocide and the weaponising of aid. It was the position of Spain that the agreement should be suspended. Was that the position of Ireland at the meeting?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes. That has been and is the position of Ireland. I said this on the way into the meeting. That would require unanimity that simply does not exist. It is important for people at home to know that unanimity does not exist across the 27 member states and it would require unanimity. Therefore, I think the focus of Ireland now has to be on what practical, concrete actions to take. I think the Deputy and I would agree that you cannot say that a country is in breach of its obligations under an agreement and that be a consequence-free zone. I think that is now what the High Representative needs to focus on. She has published the review which, quite rightly, is damning. It is not a question of Israel just having breached one or two elements. This is a damning report that talks about Israel’s breaches across a variety of areas, and Europe now has to act. The report cannot be unseen. Either Israel needs to bring itself into compliance, which is always an option, and stop the genocide and killing and become compliant, or the European Union needs to outline to member states what options there are in terms of consequences.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Just so I understand the Tánaiste clearly, a suspension was the position of the Irish Government at the meeting. Can he confirm that?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes. That is Ireland's position.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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And that was said at the meeting? I know Spain was very vocal at that meeting in saying it should be suspended.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes. We are very vocal at the meetings too. Our other position articulated at the meeting was the letter that was signed by ten countries, including ourselves, on the ICJ advisory opinion and how we do not believe the European Union is currently in compliance with its obligations under that.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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In my view, the decision that was taken yesterday was absolutely wrong in the context of the severity of what is happening. I invite the Tánaiste’s comment on the issue of aid. Aid should be unmolested and uninterfered with in humanitarian situations. There is a situation now where multilateral organisations – the UN and its aid agencies – are being prevented from distributing aid and people are starving on account of it. That is the situation we are facing.

This is the scale of the human rights abuses that are happening. For European countries to put off a decision on whether Israel is in breach of its human rights obligations under the EU-Israel association agreement is unacceptable. Will the Minister comment on what is happening with regard to aid and the weaponising of aid in Gaza?

We have had a number of discussions on overseas development aid. This is under Vote 27, subhead A4. One of the items being discussed because of the large gap left by USAID is that the international debt of Third World countries is coming onto the agenda. I invite the Minister to comment on this.

With regard to Vote 28, subhead A15, I know the Ukrainian Government has flagged to the Tánaiste potential issues with items produced here unintentionally having dual use in the war of aggression by the Russian Federation. Is the Tánaiste exploring whether items produced in Ireland potentially go to dual use in that location?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire. I will outline what I believe the European position is. I am conscious we are all against the clock, and I do not want to take Deputy Ó Laoghaire's time, but I want to answer the question. I would put very differently what the European Union decided yesterday. The European Union found yesterday that Israel is in breach of its human rights obligations. It is now up to the country that is in breach of its human rights obligations to stop being in breach of them or for the European Union to come forward with concrete actions it will take. We have a very clear view of what they are, which is why we signed the letter with nine other member states. It is also why we brought forward draft legislation today. Do I believe Israel is weaponising aid? Yes, I do. I will say that while there are differing views around the Foreign Affairs Council table, I was struck yesterday by how almost every country spoke about the disaster that is humanitarian aid. In my view, Israel is absolutely weaponising aid and it is an utterly inappropriate way to be distributing aid. Even if it proved to be semi-effective, which of course it has not been, you cannot go about the distribution of aid in the way that Israel is.

With regard to debt, Deputy Ó Laoghaire is right that it is coming up more and more because the increasing cost of servicing the debt is constraining even further any available physical space in a developing country. This is then having a knock-on effect in terms of reductions in expenditure on key areas such as health, education and social protection. We would like to see them being able to invest in these. The development default will worsen poverty and inequality and disproportionately impact the furthest behind. The global debt architecture needs to further evolve. We need to look at things such as predictable and fair debt restructuring and debt relief for countries. This pathway should build on the debt resolution tools we already have and recognise existing mandates. We are very open to playing a constructive role in this.

On the issue of dual use, the Department of enterprise is the competent national authority for this but my Department does provide policy observations on export licence applications at the request of that Department. In making these observations the Department assesses each application against the eight assessment criteria of the EU. Ireland remains committed to the multilateral export control framework and we continue to advocate for the efficient and effective functioning of the regimes. I will take a particular look at the concerns expressed by the Ukrainian Embassy, particularly given the fact we will have further sanctions packages coming forward. I will be back in touch with the Ukrainian Embassy after I have assessed its concerns.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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I will begin by recognising the work of the Passport Office and how year on year it is improving. The Minister's colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Emer Higgins, did the State some service a couple of years ago when she highlighted that "passport express" was an out-of-date title for the service at the time. She may have got some online criticism but she was spot on in what she said. If I could put one thing across it is that there might be some room for communication on passports regarding new passports and first-time passports in the next year or two. I want to highlight there is still a bit of a wait but the service is fantastic.

Will the decision by USAID, and then the decision of some European states to cut back aid, indirectly impact our ability to spend our Estimate for 2025? Will we be involved in joint programmes which, through no fault of our own, will not be actioned and, therefore, we will not be able to spend our Estimate for a particular programme?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The answer is "No, but". The answer is we will be able to spend all of our money and, in fact, we will be under even greater pressure because of these decisions. We are going through a process at the moment with partners because we may have to reprioritise, reallocate or restructure some programmes. The full Estimate will absolutely be able to be spent but there may be some small amount for which we have to re-examine how best to spend it.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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Will it require an extra degree of flexibility and reaction from our own diplomatic service to do this? Are they getting much line of sight in terms of the challenges coming down? What extra pressures are on them in terms of spending the Estimates we have allocated?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, is leading on this for us. We have asked all of our ambassadors in the areas where we have development programmes to come back to us with their own analysis of the impact of the USAID cuts on their programmes. The direct answer to the question is that it is an additional workload that our teams on the ground have to undertake. They would rather be undertaking how to best support these organisations than having to go back and examine the fiscal impact. I said in my opening statement, and I mean it, as does the Department, that we will want to be flexible and helpful to the agencies we are funding because we recognise the difficulties they are going through also.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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UNRWA is under fierce pressure in Gaza and Palestine at present. I welcome the increase in funding the Irish State has given. Does the Tánaiste think, given the deteriorating situation day to day with regard to aid in Gaza, the figure could be revisited and we might end up increasing it? Should we increase it again in the course of this year?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am always open to this but my honest concern about UNRWA, and I say this as a massive supporter of it, is about its ability to do what it desperately wants to do, and is desperately trying to do. As a result of the decisions of the Israeli Government we made the decision, and UNRWA will verify this, to front-load our allocation and it was very grateful for it. We have also worked at EU level to significantly increase the EU allocation and to front-load it. We absolutely remain open to doing more. From memory, the European Union made an allocation of approximately €51 million to UNRWA last week. My bigger concern at present is UNRWA's ability to carry out its work safely.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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Given the paralysis imposed upon UNRWA, will it be able to put the money we have allocated to it to use in 2025?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes. My understanding is that it has probably already been spent. My concerns about UNRWA are what I have outlined with regard to its ability to safely operate on the ground and the obstruction of the Israeli Government, and also the fact that as a result of the Israeli Government's action some countries have pulled back from UNRWA. Any time I have engagement with UNRWA, and I say this from a position of respect for its work, it always seems to be functioning if not quite week to week then month to month in terms of its financial sustainability. It definitely has had no issue in spending the money we have allocated to it.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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It is worth saying that our commitment to development aid in its many manifestations is one of the twin pillars, along with peacekeeping, in why Ireland is held in such high regard. Does the Tánaiste feel in his relatively short time as Minister so far, that with other states peeling back from commitments to development aid, Ireland's leadership in this area has increased? Perhaps the term "moral leadership" might be a bit extravagant to use. Does the Tánaiste think other states, such as non-aligned states and states outside of Europe, are looking to us?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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They very much are and, similar to Deputy Smith, I do not say this to be lofty. It speaks to our values. I am genuinely proud of the fact that no matter who of us are in government it is what we believe in as Irish people. There has generally been cross-party and cross-partisan consensus that overseas development aid and official development assistance works and matters. Part of it is our history and part of it is the proud legacy we already have from projects that have made difference. It is heartbreaking to see the impact that USAID cuts and other cuts are having.

Those cuts will worsen poverty and inequality in countries where poverty and inequality are already rife. That is the depressing bit but it is not a reason for us to plough on and keep at it.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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I might come back on another twin pillar on peacekeeping when we are in the defence committee.

On subhead A6, contributions to multilateral organisations, notwithstanding our long-term commitment, which the Minister mentioned in his opening statement, our funding has gone down in the area following a review of how we fund them. That review is ongoing. Where is that review at and how does the Minister see our funding in this area for the next couple of years?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Deputy noted that and asked the question because it is an issue I would like to see resolved. An allocation is made each year and, without being flippant, it is never the right allocation and therefore we always end up having to have a Supplementary Estimate to address the issue later in the year. A good piece of work is ongoing to try to resolve this. It is a spending review, not in the way that spending reviews are sometimes for downward levels of spending, but more of a review of how we should address this issue each year. We are engaging constructively with the Department of public expenditure on this, first around the appropriate sum each year, which I think is quite obvious, and second around where it should be located within the Government. I do not have a specific timeline as to when it is due for completion but I would like to see progress made on it this year.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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Thank you.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Tánaiste for coming in today. If Ireland cannot take any action in the face of genocide, was it wise for Ireland to have signed up to the EU-Israel association agreement?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The EU-Israel association agreement has been in place for a number of years. It is a good thing for the European Union to have agreements with as many countries and parts of the world as possible. However, and I know the Deputy shares this view, I also believe the human rights obligations in the agreement are not just stuck in for padding – they are not discretionary and they are not optional extras. From an EU credibility point of view, we have to take action when anyone with whom we sign up to an agreement breaches part of it. The human rights obligations matter and Israel is clearly in breach of them.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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But there is nothing we can do. There is nothing we are doing.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I disagree respectfully on that.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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How come we have not done anything then?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Today we become the first country in the European Union to publish, or very shortly publish, legislation to ban trade with the occupied Palestinian territory. I think that is a concrete step.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Trade and services?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The current draft legislation, as I have long previewed, will be in goods but from a policy point of view I am not against including services. What I need to do is tease through the legality of that. We have very good people who do a very good job on that in the Department, for which I thank them. As they work through this, the present general scheme, and I say this to be helpful in advance of the committee’s deliberation, rests on the public policy exception set out in Article 24 of Regulation (EU) 215/478 on common rule for imports. We have a legal view that there is a pathway forward on goods there that may not be there on services. However, I have officially asked the Attorney General to see if it is possible to do services as well.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There is the recommendation from the ICJ.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not disagree. The question here is whether Ireland can do that unilaterally or can only do it at EU level. I am quite sure the committee will tease through that.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am conscious that this is a select committee so all our colleagues from the Seanad are not here, but the Tánaiste will be back.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is okay. I thank the Minister for answering those questions.

On passports, I want to commend the Passport Office. The processing of passports has really sped up in recent years. I have some questions on this. An issue I have encountered is where people have made three attempts to get witnesses to authorise the photographs. If there is no garda on duty on a day, the applicant cannot get the form signed and is therefore able to get his or her application processed in time. That is something the Tánaiste might look at. Sometimes it is not identified that the photographs are not compatible in time and people have to go back and forth which can add another two or three weeks. He might also look at that.

I do not know if the Tánaiste can answer this but has he considered the need for a Passport Office in Belfast which would alleviate the situation for people not only in the North but also in the north west? It would make it easier for them to get passports. Would the Tánaiste consider this? At least 50% of the people in the North have Irish passports.

I commend the Tánaiste on embassies and consulates. There are more of them but an issue with a lack of staff has been identified. If you try to call an embassy you cannot get anyone on the phone. Is there an issue there? Are all the embassies staffed to full capacity or does the Tánaiste feel they are under-resourced?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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To take the last point first, we have increased significantly our footprint in our physical presence and number of people. Do I believe we need to do more? I do and when we talk about growing Ireland’s footprint it cannot just be about buildings but also the depth of the teams in those buildings. I am supportive of that and the Deputy can be assured I will make that case in the forthcoming budget. I am often amazed when I go to places. One would think there are 100 people working in them, they are so good, and then one finds out there is half a dozen. I am very proud of the work they do and I want us to better support them in numbers.

I thank the Deputy for her kind words about the Passport Office. We are quick enough as politicians to highlight when there is a challenge with the public service. I appreciate the recognition of the good work that has been done. I am also conscious, as is the passport service, that the work continues and, as the Deputy rightly said, there are other things we need to look at.

There is a process in place whereby a garda needs to witness certain application forms, including those of first-time applicants. We all know that is for good reasons. I am told around 17% of all passport applications require a garda witness and that is a vital element. We have a close and good working relationship with An Garda Síochána and we thank them for that. However, as part of our ongoing reform process, we are looking at a general update in policies. One area that would be good to get to is a digitisation of the records maintained by An Garda Síochána for witness applications. That would save a lot of the hassle because at the moment the Passport Office has to ring up to -----

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Three times and then it goes back.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The long and the short is we are working on this. Technology and the digitisation could be an important part of that. Occasionally, I do hear the issue of how to take the correct photograph that is acceptable. I do not mean to trivialise this because it is important we help people. We have a good video on the website to which I would refer people. Customers can vary greatly in the level of assistance they might require but people can also phone the customer service hub for assistance. We get about 10,000 queries weekly on average to the passport service customer hub between phones and webchat. They are not all about how to take the photograph but that gives an indication of how busy it is.

The Belfast office comes up quite a lot. I am conscious of our obligation to our citizens in the North. We always keep these things under review but I would make the point, which may not be very dissimilar to that of the Deputy, that so much is online that the location of the physical office becomes less important. That is my gut view on this. Last year, for example, 93% of all applicants wherever they were in the world used passport online. Our records show that only between 1% and 2% of all passport applicants turn up at a Passport Office for the urgent appointment service. The big investment we have been making is moving more stuff online rather than opening new offices.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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How does the 1% or 2% work out in terms of footfall?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I would have to do my sums. It is about 10,000.

Noel McCarthy (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Tánaiste and Minister for foreign affairs and his officials for coming here today. Most of the questions have been asked but I want to thank him and to agree with Deputies Smith and Bennett on the Passport Office and the work it is doing. It is excellent. We are in a busy period. For anyone who has their paperwork right, the passports are done very well. I agree with Deputy Bennett on some of the hold-ups. I have encountered this with gardaí not being on duty and things having to go back again. That is a problem but I am sure the office is looking at that. Overall the Department must be complimented on the work it is doing on issuing passports very quickly.

One person told me lately they did the application online and had the passport back in four working days. That is excellent. The work these people are doing must be mentioned. Additionally, if another office is needed - and I know there is Belfast, but I think Cork is the real second city - I ask if we could consider Cork for it. I said this already in the Dáil. I ask that this be considered. It would help Dublin in other ways. I also thank the Tánaiste for the work he is doing in evacuating our Irish residents from war-torn countries like Israel, Iraq and Iran. I compliment the Tánaiste on the work being done and thank the Chair for letting me in.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy McCarthy. We were conscious of Cork and Belfast and all parts of this island. As I think I told the Deputy in the Dáil before, we have plans to move office in Cork and this will make room for additional staff. We do, therefore, have a commitment to expanding there. On the broader issue of new offices being needed, I think, on balance, ensuring the service is accessible and working quickly is the priority, but we do keep these issues under review. I thank the Deputy for his kind words in relation to the evacuation of Irish citizens. I wish to be associated with those words because of the incredible work done by our diplomats over the course of the weekend. Even today, I think we had a further three Irish citizens leave Israel. We have relatively small numbers of people in Israel and Iran, but every person and Irish citizen matters to us and we have a duty of care to every one of them. It was really good work being done.

I heard a few comments that were a little bit ill-informed, not here of course. These comments included a question as to why Ireland is relying on the assistance of other European countries. To be clear, that is not how it works at all. We activate the EU civil assistance mechanism, which means all countries work together. Obviously, if there was a country where there was a large number of Irish people, we have options in terms of chartering planes and the like. We have done it before and we could, God forbid, if the need were to arise, do it again. In this case, though, we had a relatively small number of citizens involved and it simply made much more sense from a safety and efficiency point of view to work together.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Great. We will go for a second round of questions and answers of three minutes for each member. We will go the same way about it as the first round, if that is okay with everybody. I call Deputy Shay Brennan.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I was not planning to come back in on a second round, but I am here now and will absolutely take full advantage of the opportunity. We might turn to Vote 27 this time.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Sure thing.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Rather than get into the specifics too much, I just want to focus on the climate-related aspect of this Vote. I know there is a target there to take spending to €225 million. In a broader sense, though - and we had this discussion at a separate committee meeting in relation to ODA - there is the need less developed nations have not only for debt forgiveness but for debt forgiveness based on making reparations for the impacts of general climate change and how that is impacting those countries. I refer to attempts to put a dollar value on this aspect. I would not mind getting the Tánaiste's thoughts on debt forgiveness in general.

Equally, earlier in the meeting, he referred to the actual cost of paying interest and how the interest service burden is taking from the general current expenditure ability of certain countries. I have noted that private funds are lending to these countries, and that this accounts for roughly about 50% of their borrowing. It is coming in at an interest rate of anything up to 16%. I believe some of these funds are operating through the IFSC in Dublin and this is something it is difficult to lift the cover on and get in behind. I wonder if the Tánaiste is aware of this matter. To bring all those issues together, I would like to get the Tánaiste's thoughts on debt forgiveness, climate reparations and on the interest rates being applied by private funds, especially how this pertains to Ireland.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On the last one, it is a matter for those individual companies to operate within the regulatory structures that exist, but I think there is a real obligation on countries to do an awful lot more to assist developing countries with climate adaptation. I attended a conference during the UN General Assembly week last year. I was really struck by those countries that often have the least and have done the least in terms of damage to our planet in many ways but that are now experiencing the worst impacts of climate change. There is this inverse relationship between the less countries have and the more serious the damage in this context. It is very clear the current trajectory in terms of the level of spending to assist those countries and, indeed, the policy approach to it, is not in any way going to be adequate to reverse the trends. Not to be too negative, the approach now being taken by very large countries on it, unfortunately, is only going to make this situation more difficult. From an Irish perspective, we have met our own target in relation to climate finance, which I must say was a big enough call by the last Government - of which both our parties were part of - to make in 2021 in respect of getting to the €225 million. We are now committed to initiating a review of the roadmap to inform our position post-2025 in terms of climate finance and diplomacy. We will be engaging on and grappling with all of these issues with our international partners.

On the issue of debt, whether it is debt forgiveness or debt restructuring, it is clear the level of debt is now crippling developing countries in making the crucial investments they need. On the one hand, we have countries saying they are going to provide a bit of assistance, while on the other hand, we are seeing more countries nearly taking back more in terms of the debt repayments. This is counterproductive and this is an argument Ireland needs to make. We have a lot of work to do with many of the bigger players in this regard.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste. I call Deputy Duncan Smith.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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I have two questions. My second one is a bit out of left field, but the Chair might give me a bit of time at the end. My initial question relates to subhead A7 and concerns the measures to support the EU's Common Foreign and Security Policy. There is a relatively modest amount of funding compared with other subheads here. I am keen to understand what our approach is going to be to the nuclear non-proliferation review conference in 2026. Ireland has played a key role in this context for decades, especially, though, in recent years in relation to a Middle East zone free from nuclear weapons. Obviously, this is going to be a key discussion point leading into the review conference. I would be pleased to hear any comment the Tánaiste might have in terms of our preparation and political direction going into that conference in a year's time.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I was very struck yesterday by my engagement with a number of countries, including France, which is part of the EU3. When I was looking back on all this yesterday too, I was reminded of the years in which the world made some degree of progress in relation to these issues. We were at our best when we were trying to advance the JCPOA. The question now is if we can use this space that a temporary ceasefire provides us with to try to get back into some process of real and sustained meaningful dialogue and diplomacy. I was alarmed and concerned with my engagement with Iran over the weekend. I heard reference to that country effectively threatening to not play a role in the non-proliferation treaty, NPT, and to walk away. That sort of thing will not impact Iran but will have more devastating effects on the international community. It is about trying to get back into a process. I know what people say about politicians talking about de-escalation. It does, though, really matter. The escalatory spiral here in terms of moving away from the NPT can be very significant. I think we are certainly in a better place today than we were yesterday but we need to now underpin this cessation of violence by intensive engagement. I am happy to come back to the committee on the conference in general and to take its input in advance of that 2026 meeting because we have a lot of thinking to do between now and then and where the world is at in this regard.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am looking forward to hearing the other question from the Deputy. He said it was from left field.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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Yes. I understand the Minister is the line Minister in charge of what is at the core my next question. On 28 September, a huge American football game will be taking place in Croke Park. It will be a major expression of American sport and culture. We have in the past had military flyovers in Dublin for college football games. We have had F-16 jets and V-22 Osprey aircraft flying over. Such a military display in line with a big sporting event is not something we would accept at an All-Ireland final or a League of Ireland cup final. Given the current international climate and Ireland's role in de-escalation in peacekeeping and all that, could the Tánaiste commit in any way, or least comment, that this is not something we should see over the skies of our capital city in 2025 to distract from this sporting event that is going to be massively positive?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is a question I will have to ponder and come back to the Deputy on. I am not sure, first of all, if there are plans for such a display this year, but do let me check it. I will give some reflection to it. I agree and think the college games and now the regular NFL game in September are huge opportunities for our capital city and our country. I think they will be really good occasions.

I hope they will also present occasions on the margins for a significant amount of political engagement. Generally, quite a number of members of Congress, governors and others come and it is important to keep the lines of communication open. I will check whether there are any plans for that in the first instance. I will get back to the Deputy.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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We are very conscious of the deepening of relationships with different levels of Congress. This committee would like to play its part in anything that could be facilitated for whoever is passing through by wearing the green jersey on issues related to the committee's work. If there is anything we can do for the Tánaiste there-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the Chair saying that. We will take him up on it. It is always easy to engage when everyone is getting along on every issue. It is harder but more important to do it when we are not. Therefore, we need to seize the opportunity in August and September to do that. I will link with the committee on that.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The budget for reconciliation and North-South co-operation has decreased by one third. What was the reason for that? Why did it decrease?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is a good question. I am pleased to say it has not. The Deputy is quite right that when you look at the figures, that is exactly what you see. She is correct in what she said, but there is an answer. An extra €4.3 million was spent in one year versus the others. It was a once-off allocation to hire a chair of Irish studies at Cambridge university. I assure the Deputy the level of funding is consistent, but we topped it up, if you like, last year for the Cambridge appointment.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have spoken to a few people from the diaspora with American or Australian driving licences who are moving home to Ireland. When they get to Ireland, if they never sat a driving test here previously, they have to sit a completely new test, where they start from scratch and do their driving lessons. With the backlog in driving licences, will the Tánaiste consider the diaspora being able to convert their licences to Irish licences?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The short answer is "Yes", but we have to do it in a very careful way because there is a balance here. We want to make it as easy as possible for people to move back to their country. We want them back. This is an issue that definitely comes up. It came up a number of times when I was in the United States in February and March. It comes up from our diaspora all of the time. What we have to do is make sure there is a recognition that the level of qualification matches our expectation as regards road safety and vice versa. I am pleased to say a lot of work has been undertaken. We now have agreement with Australia and a majority of the Canadian provinces. The next big piece of work is with the US. The way we have decided to do this is state by state starting, or at least trying to start, with those with the highest proportion of Irish-born citizens. The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, and the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, are leading that for my Department and the Department of Transport. We want to begin discussions shortly with key US states. The Deputy is right that it would be very helpful.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Tánaiste for that. I have one more question. The support for the diaspora is static this year. It is not going up or down. Is that wise in respect of the year of invitation that is now upon us?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is static, but I make the point, and I am always struck by this when I go abroad, that we are one of a relatively small number of countries that has such an active programme of financial support for our diaspora, quite rightly. That is so much so that other countries are now looking to Ireland and how we run these programmes and thinking about how they can develop them too. As a line Minister, I always look to increase funding for all parts of my Department but that will obviously be a matter for the budget in October.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Michael Murphy is welcome.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair. I apologise for being late. As the Tánaiste knows, I had a busy day hosting the Little Blue Heroes but of course-----

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will give the Deputy one minute so use it wisely.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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-----foreign affairs is of interest to us all. I acknowledge the extraordinary work done by our diplomats abroad throughout the world in the context of the current geopolitical climate, including our missions to east and west. To what extent are we demonstrating we are getting value for money from our missions abroad? Are there any plans in the context of the 2025 budget to either expand or contract any missions we have abroad?

On human rights, how is the extent of our role in promoting human rights globally reflected in the 2025 budget?

On Brexit and Ireland-UK relations, what is the funding for maintaining and developing this relationship post Brexit? I also raise the matter of the shared island fund, following yesterday's very disappointing decision on the A5. I am not too sure to what extent moneys are set aside in the 2025 budget. Is that something that will be reallocated to other cross-Border projects?

What is the extent of funding set aside for preparing for Ireland's 2025 Presidency of the Council of the European Union? In that context, Deputy McCarthy can have his passport office in Cork providing one of the high-level meetings is held in south Tipperary.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Not forgetting Belfast.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I have three questions to ask. The Tánaiste will then have a full four minutes to answer. The Parliamentary Budget Office produced a paper that was slightly questioning of the shared island fund. I will give the Tánaiste an opportunity to respond to that. Part of it is about how it is dispersed through different Departments.

When does the Tánaiste think he might have the Attorney General's advice on the occupied territories Bill? That is important for us.

I do not know about other members, but I would like a detailed paper on the Expo out of pure curiosity and interest in who is there, who represents us, what they are showcasing and so on, if that is available. The floor is the Tánaiste's for a full four minutes.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That was very efficient. We will get that paper on Expo. We very much welcome it. People should know we made a pretty big investment in it. It is my genuine gut feeling based on the feedback I get that it is worth it. I am proud of the work that is being done but we will absolutely provide that paper.

On the Attorney General's advice, I want to be fair to the Attorney General on this. It will be as soon as possible. I am not trying to be obstructive. I will get the Cathaoirleach clarity in that regard.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for his comments on the shared island fund. I very much respect all of the work of the Parliamentary Budget Office but the shared island fund is a remarkable development. The Cathaoirleach thinks that too, as does his party leader and our Taoiseach as he is very committed to it. He might be right in that this is a relatively new innovation. There are many lines in the programme for Government but very few have money beside them. Generally, money is allocated in the Estimates but we decided to put a billion beside it. It is quite a rare construct to have a centralised fund that has lots of different Departments feeding into it. I can see the huge benefit of it throughout the island of Ireland. We are very much wedded to it. Of course, as it evolves we should continue to take positive and constructive feedback on it.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will go to Deputy Ó Laoghaire because he came in late. I will give him one minute for the second round. I ask the Tánaiste to relax for 30 seconds and I will come back to him. Sorry for interrupting his-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Not at all. To Deputy Michael Murphy, with the exception of this foreign affairs meeting, the best and nicest thing I have done today - I am only joking - was meeting the Little Blue Heroes. I thank him for bringing them here. It would warm your heart. It is an incredible initiative by An Garda Síochána. I also thank its members for it. I hope the nine young people here today, and their parents and grandparents, had a wonderful experience.

We intend to expand our diplomatic footprint. We intend to open three new embassies this year. We will then put in place a new global Ireland plan out to 2040, which will identify where we intend to go in the years ahead. I genuinely think we get extraordinary value for money for the footprint. We are now getting an even bigger bang for our buck with some of the reform work that has been done in relatively recent years around the Ireland House model. That brings EI, the IDA, Tourism Ireland and obviously the ambassador and the embassy network into one construct together. We constantly put ourselves under pressure on that stuff.

Quite honestly, the UK-Ireland relationship is at a better place than it has been at any time in many recent years. We have interlocutors in the UK who are back to using the appropriate language around co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement. We had the first Ireland-UK summit. The UK hosted it hosted this year in Liverpool. We will host it next year in Ireland. We also saw the beginning of the reset of the EU-UK relationship, which, again, if I had told the Deputy six or 12 months ago that as much would have been achieved in it as was, people would have said I was a bit naive. It is really quite good. We got that feedback at the North-South Ministerial Council from the northern side. There are real opportunities now and good news for Northern Ireland.

I assure the Deputy that our commitment to the A5, which is a centrally held commitment as opposed to a 2025 line allocation, remains. Yesterday's decision comes as an extraordinary source of disappointment to many. I do not want to cut across the work of independent courts but our commitment from a funding point of view remains.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Nóiméad amháin, Deputy Ó Laoghaire.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I take the opportunity to raise an issue that probably does not get enough attention here. We are rightly very exercised by the humanitarian situation in Gaza, which is something I speak about very frequently, but there is not a great deal of discussion in these Houses on the humanitarian crisis in Sudan.

There was an attack on a hospital today, or perhaps it was last night, leading to the deaths of 40 people. Some 13 million people are displaced. There is immense human suffering as well as starvation and everything that goes with it. It is a vicious ethnic conflict. Could the Tánaiste comment on what Ireland has been doing to raise its voice on the appalling conflict in Sudan?

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has nóiméad amháin. If he could, a briefing paper on that would be useful.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Let us do that. I appreciate Deputy Ó Laoghaire's raising of this issue. He is entirely right; not alone is the world not doing enough about the issue but it is not even getting enough attention, bandwidth or discussion, yet the scale of the catastrophe is huge. Ireland has consistently advocated for greater international attention. We must challenge ourselves and see what more we can do. We have brought it up everywhere we go - in the EU and the UN - and we have tried to keep it on the agenda. We brought it up yesterday at the Foreign Affairs Council. In the discussion we expressed support for the excellent work done by the EU special representative, Annette Weber. We reiterated our desire to see an effective mediation process, improvement in humanitarian access, a credible prospect for civilian governance, justice and accountability for the people of Sudan. We issued a number of statements on it. We are part of a core group of like-minded EU member states who most recently met at official level on 7 May to discuss the EU's collective approach. Senior officials in my Department have also raised their concerns about Sudan on a number of occasions, most notably during political consultations on the Middle East, including Abu Dhabi. We provided €14 million in humanitarian aid for Sudan in 2024. We also provided €5 million to the Sudan humanitarian fund and a further €2.7 million to NGOs working with Sudanese refugees so far this year.

I do not disagree with the Deputy's analysis at all. Ireland needs to do more, but so too does the international community. I am very happy to provide the committee with a detailed briefing note. Let us see how we can do more together on it.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste and his officials for appearing before the committee today. The briefing was well absorbed, so they have served their Minister well. I also thank members for their contributions.