Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Tuesday, 17 June 2025
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Challenges Relating to the Delivery of Housing: Discussion (Resumed)
2:00 am
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I advise Members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings.
Ireland faces many challenges in respect of delivery of housing such as addressing imbalances between supply and demand, streamlining the planning processes, improving construction productivity and ensuring financial viability for projects. Today I am pleased that we have the opportunity to consider this and related matters with representatives from the Housing Agency and the Land Development Agency. From the Housing Agency I welcome Mr. Martin Whelan, CEO; Mr. David Silke, director of insights and operations; Mr. Jim Baneham, director of delivery and innovation; Mr. Pat Fitzpatrick, acting director of services and inclusion; and Ms Gwen Perry, head of affordable housing. From the Land Development Agency I welcome Mr. John Coleman, CEO; Mr. Phelim O'Neill, director of development; Ms Dearbhla Lawson, director of planning services; Mr. Enda McGuane, director of asset management; and Ms Sharon Geraghty, chief of staff. You are very welcome, and thank you for taking time to come to our public meeting.
Before we start, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to another person in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in respect of an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks, and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
The opening statements that were sent to the committee have been circulated to members. I think there will be a lot of questions from many Members. We might take the opening statements as read, because I know the members have read them, and agree that the statements that have been sent in will be published on the Oireachtas website.
I now invite Members to discuss the issues with the representatives. I remind anybody who might be participating remotely to use the raised hand feature and cancel it when he or she has finished speaking. The first speaker is a representative from Fianna Fáil, Deputy Séamus McGrath.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank all the witnesses for coming before us. I have read the opening statements so I am happy to go straight into some questions.
I will go initially to the Land Development Agency. It is probably topical today with the decision this morning to expand the role of the agency, which is very welcome. In its short lifetime it has made significant progress on its role, and it is good to see that role expanded geographically and in other ways. I very much welcome that. I will focus on the opening statement in terms of the key challenges the Land Development Agency has outlined. They are listed in front of us - zoned land, issues relating to servicing of land and so on - and they are all significant. I ask initially about the proposals from the Government, in terms of the national planning framework, to release zoned land. I ask for the Land Development Agency's view on that as to how successful it will be.
If I may, I will raise another topic in my initial comments as regards judicial reviews, which have been mentioned as one of the key challenges. I know the Land Development Agency is tied up in particular on one site in Dundrum in relation to up to 900 units. I would like some commentary from the agency on judicial reviews and the new planning rules that are coming in and, as I said, the zoned land.
I will leave it at that for now.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Just so members are aware, they have six minutes each for questions and answers, so I ask members to be specific with their questions and I ask the witnesses to try to be specific and sharp with the answers to give members an opportunity to ask as many as possible.
Mr. John Coleman:
I thank Deputy McGrath for the questions. I will take the zoned land piece first. We would welcome, with the revised national planning framework, the proposal to zone more land for housing purposes. Since the previous national planning framework, unforeseeable elements driving population growth meant that we probably do not have enough zoned land currently to deal with the housing need on foot of the population growth, so we would say the idea that local authorities will be looking to zone more land is welcome. The key part to that is ensuring that that zoned land is serviced and that the basic infrastructure of water services and electricity services, in order that they can both be connected, is addressed and planned for. We work with local authorities all the time to identify opportunities that could be brought forward and we hope to see some of those lands brought forward for residential development in the near future.
As regards judicial reviews, yes, it is a risk. Unfortunately, we have received a judicial review challenge relating to a planning permission we have for a large site in south Dublin, Dundrum Central Mental Hospital, the former mental hospital. The issue for us is that we are unable to get on with the development of that site. We have a revised planning application for nearly 1,000 homes. That has been lodged.
We hope to get a decision on that in the very near future, within the next couple of months. The problem is that it has delayed delivery of homes. Those 1,000 homes will accommodate approximately 2,500 people.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does Mr. Coleman mind if I interrupt him briefly because we are caught for time? How long has that been delayed to date? Outside of the delay in delivery, what does he estimate to be the impact on costs? Construction costs are obviously increasing and so on. Will he comment on those two points?
Mr. John Coleman:
Delivery will be delayed by at least two years. On costs, the impact of the delay and the challenge has been to add at least €30 million to the estimated delivery cost of the scheme. That is the impact on that scheme. We are not out of the woods yet. We do not have a positive planning decision. We do not know whether there will be a further challenge but that is the impact so far.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Mr. Coleman. I am caught for time so I will move to the Housing Agency. What strikes me in the opening statement is the point on the Central Bank's latest financial stability review, which shows inward capital flows and equity financing having fallen 80% and averaging €450 million in 2023 and 2024 compared with an average of €2.5 billion in 2021 and 2022. Those figures are quite stark. Will the Housing Agency representatives elaborate on that and the impact it is having on housing supply and delivery?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
In our opening statement, we identified three closely interrelated issues: high costs impacting viability and affordability; capacity as it relates both to the subject Mr. Coleman has just addressed and the structure of the development and construction sector here in Ireland; and capital. We have seen a near collapse in inward investment in the Irish housing system over the past year or year and a half. It is pronounced in two areas. The first in inward investment in the form of development, particularly equity finance for new development. That is a major challenge. It is a particular challenge given that there is a higher equity requirement for apartment development. The shortage of such financing is an issue but the cost of that finance is even more of an issue. It is affecting viability, margins and the ability of development platforms to build up scale, to rebuild their balance sheets and to create the scale that is needed to work on multiple projects simultaneously as opposed to working project by project. We also see it on the other side of the equation, particularly in the form of investment in the build-to-rent sector. That sector had been providing approximately 2,000 new rental apartments every year. That has significantly reduced. It has dried up. That obviously has significant implications for the provision of homes for people who need them.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank both organisations for their opening statements and additional documentation as well as for their ongoing work. I will start with Mr. Coleman and the Land Development Agency. The agency's business plan out to 2028 includes a commitment to deliver approximately 14,000 units, the bulk of those being cost-rental, at an estimated cost of €7 billion. So far, the State has committed €3.75 billion of that figure. That means there is still a black hole of approximately €3.25 billion in the financing of the plan. A working group was set up last year. It met four times. Its report was concluded in February of this year. Will Mr. Coleman share with us his understanding of how that black hole of €3.25 billion or more is going to be addressed? Where is that money going to come from? Is he in a position to share with us any of the recommendations of the draft report completed in February of this year?
Mr. John Coleman:
Some €3.75 billion of equity capital has been committed to the LDA to date. We are permitted to borrow a further €1.25 billion. We will look to advance that over the next 12 months to increase our capital capacity for investment in affordable homes. There is provision for a further €1.25 billion of capital to be made available to the LDA. We typically call on that capital as required. We need to ensure we have enough capital to support the financial commitments we make, which are multi-annual and typically go beyond the current year. The requirement is for a commitment of roughly two and a half years. We never need it all upfront. We have been well capitalised to date and for now. However, to deliver on the ambition set out in the business plan the Deputy has referenced, it will be important for us to keep talking to the Government to ensure we have sufficient capital to deliver. We are on track on that programme.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It sounds like the agency has yet to be told by Government where that €3.25 billion is going to come from. I fully understand that not all the €3.75 billion that has been committed to date has been drawn down but that will be the case at some point or it would not have been committed to. Has Mr. Coleman had any sight of the work of that working group? Has he seen the report? Where is that €3.25 billion to come from? It is my understanding that the LDA is reluctant to borrow because the high cost of borrowing impacts on rents. With regard to the €3.25 billion that has yet to be clarified, does Mr. Coleman have any understanding of when that is likely to come and from where? With respect to borrowing, does he have a sense of how much the LDA might seek to borrow on the markets in the next 12 months?
On the Minister's announcement, we were expecting to hear about two issues. We expected to hear about some move on corporation tax but there was no clarity on that. The LDA's tenants should not be paying corporation tax but they are. We also expected to hear about enhanced CPO powers. Will Mr. Coleman give us an indication of his understanding of Government's thinking? Is it likely to remove the obligation of the agency's tenants to pay 25% corporation tax? Is there any indication that the LDA might get comprehensive compulsory purchase order powers?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Are they likely to be provided given the concerns about state aid rules of some in government?
Mr. John Coleman:
The Government will have to take legal advice on how far it can go on additional powers but they would be welcome. It would not be a panacea because the compulsory purchase process takes time and market value has to be paid. However, it is definitely a persuasive factor in negotiations.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The LDA would not have to pay market value when buying State lands or commercial semi-State lands. It would strengthen the agency's position in getting public lands if it had CPO powers.
Mr. John Coleman:
It would strengthen our position for sure. The mechanism for arriving at the value to be paid for State lands is set out in the Land Development Agency Act. As the Deputy will know, it is essentially existing use value, which is lower than the open market value. We understand that the ongoing CPO review might shed further light on how far we can go in this regard. We continue to engage with the Government on the issue.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will Mr. Coleman address the corporation tax? Can he provide any further clarity on the missing €3.25 billion?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It does impact on the rent, however. I know the LDA would prefer not to pay it.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The language in the Government's press release today was super vague. It says it is going to work with the Department of Finance but that does not tell us anything.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I apologise for pressing Mr. Coleman but my time is about to run out. Can he tell us anything about the recommendations of the draft report on the future funding of the LDA?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the lack of certainty on that cause any difficulties for management and forward planning?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
When does Mr. Coleman expect to have all the capitalisation it has got from the State to be fully committed? Will it be at the end of this year or next year? When will that money will run out, effectively?
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank both organisations for their presentations. It is good to see the impact they have had and will have in the future.
Infrastructure is a major concern of mine and it is my honest belief that it is holding up housing development in a major way in certain areas. The lack of public wastewater systems in many communities is strangling them, and getting them is a pipe dream. Communities in County Clare have been told that there are no plans to develop wastewater treatment systems for their villages. Effectively, this is a death sentence in many ways for these settlements. We know there are certified modular wastewater treatment systems available that can and do support housing developments. Do the witnesses see these modular systems as viable alternatives that can support smaller housing schemes in settlements across the country that either have no system in place or have no capacity in existing systems, which is also a major concern? Would the LDA and the Housing Agency consider supporting housing projects that rely on these types of system for development? It is important that these treatment systems be taken over.
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I thank the Deputy for his kind comments. I agree with him about the impact of infrastructural development planning delays on delivery. We see it across our work, in our attempts to support the acquisition of land by local authorities for social housing, our private sector interactions and the difficulties in accessing not just zoned land and land with planning permission but also land that is serviced.
Regarding modular solutions, we are open to any solution that supports the delivery of housing. We would have to look at the technical considerations of that, but there is an open door in the Housing Agency in terms of engaging with the Deputy and others in respect of that issue, so I thank him for raising it.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is a serious concern. We are aware of where land is zoned and capacity is not in the infrastructure, particularly wastewater. I would welcome if something could be moved forward to see if it is was possible, with all sides working together, to get this land made useful for development. We are all looking for the development of houses. If we do not get this land up and running, more so in rural parts of the country, we will be left behind. Unfortunately, we can see communities where shops, post offices and other facilities are closing and the numbers of children in schools are dropping, which is a serious concern.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I might let the witnesses from the LDA answer the specific question about treatment plants.
Mr. John Coleman:
I also agree 100% with the Deputy's concerns. It is not just about wastewater. It also involves electricity connections. There are risks around that. The LDA has been mainly focused on city areas to date but the Deputy can see from the announcement from the Government today that we will focus on smaller urban settlements as well. That is something we intend to address. We would be happy to have a look at wastewater servicing and the potential for smaller modular units to be installed. Mr. O'Neill, our director of development, might be able to add further colour to that.
Mr. Phelim O'Neill:
The interim use of temporary solutions is something we are actively working with Uisce Éireann on. The long-term panacea is connection to a national infrastructure grid but on a temporary basis, there is the option to have unitised systems and there are some very reputable producers. We work with Uisce Éireann and ESB Networks to find these temporary fixes to unlock lands. As Mr. Coleman said, these solutions can be rolled out at an urban level or a more rural level.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is welcome news. I hope this means we could see more housing developments going ahead in rural parts of the country.
The other issue is the shortage of skilled construction workers. I want to touch on apprenticeships. I do not know whether this is part of the agencies' work but it is important to highlight it here today. There is a shortage of skilled construction workers. Some experienced construction workers are retiring and, unfortunately, there are not enough young people entering the sector to replace them, which is a serious concern. It is helping to drive up costs. While this is not something the LDA and the Housing Agency have control over, it is a significant risk to their capacity to deliver on projects. Do the witnesses have any thoughts about why young people do not seem to want to take up construction apprenticeships? It is disappointing to see this. We have seen this over recent years. Do the witnesses have any thoughts about how we might resolve this and get young people to take up apprenticeships so that we will have skilled workers? This is very important if we want to deliver housing projects throughout the country, not least given the volume of housing we are looking to have developed in the near future.
Mr. Martin Whelan:
That ties in to points I made in my opening statement about not just capacity but productivity in the construction sector. There is a need for a focus on factory-type production and processes in the construction sector. It would make the profession more attractive, technological and skilled and it would also very much feed into addressing some of the capacity issues, particularly the productivity issues. The committee heard from the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, and the Central Bank that productivity in the construction sector in Ireland runs at about 25% below our European counterparts. It is a combination of those factors. We will definitely feed the Deputy's perspective into the policy process. There is also a need for an increase in social and affordable housing professions as we increase the supply and the channels through which we deliver that supply. My colleagues in the Housing Agency have worked with industry to develop a bespoke social and affordable housing apprenticeship that will come to market very shortly, with the first individuals being enrolled early next year. That is designed to help support the capacity in local authorities and approved housing bodies, AHBs, to manage social and affordable developments. They are all interrelated. I agree with the kernel of the point the Deputy made.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
My first questions are for the Housing Agency. According to its analysis of the rent measures, average rents will rise. Could Mr. Whelan give an estimate of how much the agency sees average rents rising by in the next three to five years as a result of the new measures? When does it see rents falling as a result of the new measures? What is the agency's estimate of how many affordable purchase and affordable rental homes are needed each year to meet housing need?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I will ask Mr. Silke to address the analysis and underpinnings pertaining to the report the Deputy mentioned. We were asked to carry out work on behalf of the Department that looked at four options. None of those options offers an immediate route to increase supply in the marketplace because of the scale of the disconnect between supply and demand that exists. This context is important in any reference to rent movements. The reality is that until such time as the rate of increase in rental supply matches or exceeds the rate of increase in rental demand, there will be upward pressure on rents. Respectfully, I do not have a crystal ball. A wide range of factors, over and above those identified in our report, are impacting on the supply of rental accommodation and, by extension, on price dynamics within that. I will come back to the Deputy's question about affordable housing. I will ask Ms Perry to address that. Mr. Silke might address the issues raised.
Mr. David Silke:
We looked at four different options. One was to keep the current system in place, the second was to allow the rent pressure zones to fall at the end of the year, the third was to amend the current system and the fourth was to introduce a new type of system. As Mr. Whelan said, all of them had pros and cons. When we assessed them, we felt that amending the current system was the one that was most like to lead to increased supply of rental accommodation. We do not have an exact figure for the likely rate of inflation over the next three to five years.
That will depend on the future schemes as the Government announces them as well as other indicators such as general inflation, demographic changes, demand for private rented sector accommodation and the supply coming on stream. It would be very difficult to predict exactly what inflation in the sector is likely to be over the next three to five years.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Based on that analysis, the Housing Agency still expects average rents to rise.
Ms Gwen Perry:
The Housing Agency has not carried out any independent analysis of need. As the Deputy is aware, the current Housing for All plan set out targets for cost rental and affordable purchase homes. The new plan has been prepared and we understand there will be revised targets set out in that plan.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Housing Agency have any plans to do assessment of need for affordable housing?
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I think that should feed into the new housing plan.
As time is short, I want to move on to the Land Development Agency. How much capital did the LDA spend last year in delivering housing? How much does it intend to spend this year? Are there any viability risks or sustainability risks in the delivery of cost-rental housing? If the Government gave the LDA an additional €1.5 billion, could it deliver more homes in the coming years?
Mr. John Coleman:
Last year we spent roughly €500 million on housing and this year we intend to spend quite a bit over €1 billion. That is cash out, cash actually spent. Today the LDA has committed or is about to commit over €3 billion to affordable housing projects with most of those in the past few years since we have reached the trajectory. Having got through planning and design processes, we are in a position now to deploy that money. The trajectory of expenditure which is matched by the output is quite strong at the moment. We are probably one of the largest deployers of capital into housing in the public or private sectors.
I ask the Deputy to repeat the other-----
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Are there any viability risks in terms of delivering cost-rental housing particularly in relation to rents? If the LDA got an additional €1 billion or €2 billion, could it deliver more housing in the coming two to three years?
Mr. John Coleman:
I will take the last question first. The opportunity to deploy further money may be in ready-to-go sites that we acquire ourselves or that we work with housebuilder partners to deliver. We have a maximalist approach to that at the moment. We try to do everything that is feasible to do once it is within a certain price range, a certain scale and a certain capability of partner that we have, be that a housebuilder or a contractor. The capital that the Deputy mentions comes as part of the further ongoing capitalisation of the LDA as we require it in the years ahead.
On the viability risks of cost rental, it costs quite a lot of money to deliver particularly apartments which is about 85% of what we are focused on. That is where the difficulties in the private sector are most acute because of the cost of delivery. That presents challenges in taking something that is fundamentally expensive to deliver and producing an affordable rent. We get around that by utilising the secure tenancy affordable rental, STAR, scheme. That does not require any financing cost attached to it and there is no coupon attached to it. That makes the rent affordable to our target market which is those who do not qualify for social housing but cannot afford private sector rents.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does Mr. Coleman have any concerns into the future over cost rental and the affordability of rents?
Mr. John Coleman:
STAR is a big support for us. The corporation tax elements which were raised by Deputy Ó Broin previously would be helpful to us on the viability. It would also be helpful if the high delivery costs are addressed in the future and if anything could be done to alleviate those. At the moment we have a good model on which we can deliver cost-rental homes at scale.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I welcome the witnesses and thank them for the papers supplied. I want to try to keep the questions short and the answers short. How does the LDA's engagement with local authorities work? I ask Mr. Coleman to keep his reply to maybe two sentences.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The local authorities are identifying the sites.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How many homes have been completed to date on LDA land?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
When the agency was set up in 2018 it was forecast that 150,000 homes would be delivered by 2030. The LDA opening statement outlined that it had 40 sites with 21,000 homes at various stages. It stated that the LDA hoped to have a pipeline of 5,000 homes per year up to 2030, which is 30,000 on top of what have been developed already. Did he say that was 2,000 or 4,000 developed already?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Based on what has been delivered to date and what is set out with the LDA target of 5,000 per year, that would bring it to 32,000. Is that correct? Those are the figures I have here.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government said the LDA would deliver 150,000.
Mr. John Coleman:
Certainly based on completions, we will be the largest housing producer by 2027. The scale piece the Deputy talked about to join the dots to the 150,000 can be achieved by using mechanisms such as the UDZs which the Government has announced today with a significant role for the LDA.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I know everything is easy until you go to do it. Mr. Coleman has outlined very well some of the barriers, as has the Housing Agency. On financing, there is the €3.25 billion to be made up to get to where the LDA is going with this. I have three areas of curiosity there. I am sure these are being explored but I would like to understand what the problems are with them. The ECB is one. At one stage, I know it was nearly throwing cash at it. People have money on deposit in banks getting 0.05% interest per annum from so-called pillar banks. Have there been any discussions with the banks? Nine years ago, the credit unions claimed to have €10 billion or €12 billion on deposit and were looking for places to invest it. Have those areas been looked at?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am asking if the LDA has done so.
Mr. John Coleman:
We have not explored that in any detail to date. We are in active engagement with the EIB on borrowing facilities which would expand significantly the capital of the LDA. It is important to note that we are not struggling with capitalisation or funding right now. We are well funded by the Government and we are well funded for the foreseeable-----
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The LDA only has enough cash for this year.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is a rolling pipeline. I understand that.
I wish to ask Mr. Whelan of the Housing Agency about financing which is one of the big barriers to housing availability.
This relates to the ECB, the pillar banks and what is on deposit. The credit unions have a lot of money on deposit. Is the Housing Agency aware of any discussions with those bodies? Mr. Coleman has clarified there have been discussions and there has been contact with the ECB. What is the Housing Agency's point of view?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
As the Deputy has pointed out, there have been discussions with the ECB through the Department of Finance. We have not been party to those discussions. The general point about looking at ways to bring that capital into productive use to address the biggest shared challenge in Ireland at the moment, which is the housing challenge, is a valid one.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about the money on deposit and State saving schemes?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is the Housing Agency raising that?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is the agency raising or suggesting this in its discussions with the Government? Obviously, everybody is in the same game trying to produce houses.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Mr. Whelan. This question is for Mr. Coleman. On the servicing of land, there is a problem getting finished estates connected to Irish Water. There is also a problem in the ESB because it got rid of a lot of its workers and brought in contractors over the past ten to 15 years. It has now discovered it cannot get the contractors to do the work. At one stage, if you wanted to get an ESB connection for a number of houses or one house, you were guaranteed to get it within two or three weeks in the part of the country I live in. I am aware of that. I have first-hand experience of it. It came very quick when it had direct labour. It could do it cheaper. Are the connections with the ESB and Irish Water proving to be a problem? Is it slowing up development?
Mr. John Coleman:
It has not bitten directly yet, but it is a risk. Problems are well documented, for instance, with the greater Dublin drainage project which is held up in judicial review. There are legal challenges with capacity in the network for electricity. They are risks and we stay close to both those utilities, with which we have good relationships, to try to address them.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Could we say lack of infrastructure is holding up projects at this point?
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the witnesses for their opening statements. This committee is hearing that the biggest issue is the availability of serviceable land. In Mr. Coleman's opening statement he identified the availability of residential zoned land as one the key challenges facing the delivery of housing in Ireland. He also said that the LDA is actively assisting in the response to this challenge in collaboration with the Government and other stakeholders. Will he give an example of this collaboration? He has said, "To increase land availability, for example, the Government has asked local authorities to review and align their city and county development plans with the new housing targets in the revised National Planning Framework." The statement suggests the issuing of Government housing targets has been a blockage up to now for the delivery of housing. I know the Minister sent a letter round on 16 May. From Mr. Coleman's statement it seems the housing targets have been delivered to the local authorities, but I am hearing that the local authorities do not have the updated housing targets. There seems to be a blockage there. Will he clarify the statement and confirm the LDA's view on the specific blockages? We start off by saying we need land, and we are not getting it. Where exactly are the blockages and what are the updated housing numbers?
Mr. John Coleman:
I will answer as best I can. On the housing targets and that drive in the zoning of land, we do not have a role in that per se. However, we informally discuss these items all the time with local authorities, in particular, where there might be opportunities to bring forward land that is serviced or can be serviced and brought forward for housing. An additional thing that will help the LDA is that we are not just focused on State lands. The Senator will have seen from the statement issued by the Department of housing today that the LDA is now mandated quite clearly to focus on accessing private lands as well, which we had been doing indirectly by partnering with developers where they have had stalled sites they could not get delivered. We have stepped in to provide them with the wherewithal to get those delivered and deliver them back to the LDA - the State - as affordable housing. We have quite a lot of capacity to do that. We have also been given a mandate in relation to urban development zones to take those forward and have a plan-led approach to ensure they are serviced. These are areas with large potential that can deliver a large number of homes at scale. That is where the LDA has the main opportunity to make an impact.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Do the local authorities have the updated numbers?
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Mr. Coleman's statement assumes that they have, but what I am hearing is that they do not. Therefore, they cannot zone until they have those updated numbers. Is that correct?
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I fully understand that, but if they do not have the numbers how can they do anything?
Ms Dearbhla Lawson:
I suppose they are looking at what capacity is needed into the future. They will have to go through a process of doing that. As Mr. Coleman said, we do not have a role in that. However, we are doing work on identifying relevant public lands. That is helping us to understand the level of constraints on public lands and what role that might play, as well as the private and zoned lands that are there. Local authorities have to look at their numbers, but also at density, heights and all the other guidelines as to how they-----
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Ms Lawson, but I go back to the numbers. From the statement it seems they have the numbers but talking to the local authorities they do not. It seems to be a clear blockage and I wonder if that is maybe holding us back. That is one thing I want to put out there.
Mr. Whelan mentioned the reality of numbers and rents, etc. In this committee over recent weeks, we heard different numbers with regard to the State's requirement. Is it 30,000 houses? Is it 40,000, 60,000 or 90,000 houses? In addition, how does he break down the density and tenure mix of the housing units that are needed?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
There are a lot of figures. When you piece them together, they are quite similar, but they can appear quite different. The Central Bank and the ESRI when they were in front of this committee talked about a medium- to long-run equilibrium demand of between approximately 53,000 and 54,000 new homes per annum. That included accounting for increased and pent-up demand over a 25-year period. The same witnesses suggested that in order to address that pent-up demand in a shorter period of time, perhaps over a decade, you would need between 25,000 and 35,000 additional new homes each year over that shortened period. There is clarity, very much so, on the numbers.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Where would Mr. Whelan see the numbers?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I agree with the Central Bank and the ESRI, having read their assessment and having gone through the assumptions. They have made the assumptions. All assessments have assumptions, but they seem to me robust and authoritative figures. That is where I see the figures. Density, compact growth and so on are ultimately a by-product of planning, compact growth policy and so on. There is no doubt it is envisaged that a larger proportion of new growth will be met in urban areas with compact growth and multi-unit developments that are well serviced from a social, as well as an economic and physical infrastructural perspective. That would appear to make sense from a-----
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Briefly, the remit of the LDA was never to go into private development. It seems it is starting to compete with private developers. Is it expanding into private development? Will the LDA become the Government builder?
Mr. John Coleman:
We effectively are a State developer, but we try not to compete with the private sector. We try not to displace the private sector. The private sector is not delivering apartments off its own bat at the moment.
That is where the LDA has stepped up in a big way, to be able to facilitate them to deliver but also to deliver directly ourselves.
Regarding the private housing element, there are very large sites that could have 4,000 or 5,000 homes developed on them. Clearly, on sites of that scale, there will be some element of private housing. We do not compete with the private sector head-on. Our interventions are mainly where the market has failed, and that is particularly around apartment development.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the witnesses for being in front of us this afternoon.
I come wearing a hat that is a little bit different and I have different experiences from my colleagues on this side. Mr. Coleman talked about the 2,000 houses developed in the past number of years. What percentage of them were developed for people with additional needs? That is an important question because if the LDA is stepping into the role of State developer, I would like to know what percentage there is under the UNCRPD and that has universal design that can allow people to live ordinary lives in ordinary places. Looking at Shanganagh, there are 597 homes. When we do the whole breakdown of it, what percentage of the 597 are for people with additional needs? Looking at the Donore project, there are 542. What is the percentage there? What is the percentage of the St. Kevin’s project in Cork? The witnesses might need to gather figures. When it comes to housing, we talk about ESRI and the Central Bank. However, it is ordinary people who want to live ordinary lives in ordinary places. That can be a hard answer to give to me straight away, and I appreciate that. That is why I welcome that the LDA’s powers are being expanded to go out into the communities. That is to build on top of what Deputy Cooney has said here because I assume the local authorities, the LDA and the Housing Agency have a mapping mechanism done. We surely have mapped where we have serviced sites in our urban and rural areas that are totally untapped into. Has the LDA a proposal related to that which has gone to Government?
I would like to hear what is happening in Galway. What are the serviced sites in Galway? On the brink of where the city and the county join together, we are held up for 4,000 units of a development because of sewerage or water infrastructure. I know the LDA is hugely involved in that. While we are waiting for that roadblock to be unlocked, where will we go in Galway?
Returning to the Housing Agency, it has many strategies when it comes to disabilities – amazing ones, to be quite honest. The last will run from 2022 to 2027. We talk about strategies, but where is the implementation? Where is the watchdog within the agency? Where is its adaptation? In its own strategy, it states:
The Housing Agency has examined national and international examples of peer support models and explored what supports are currently available in Ireland and how, if necessary, they can be adapted or expanded to assist disabled people to live independent [here in Ireland].
Can the Housing Agency give examples of where it puts its strategy of different local authorities into action?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I will ask my colleague, Pat Fitzpatrick, who is the acting director of services and inclusion, to respond. Before I do, I referenced the ESRI and the Central Bank in the context of a specific question. The reason I say that is because the heart of the Housing Agency’s mission is to provide homes that people need, to provide social housing and to provide specialised and customised housing for people who are most affected and most at risk in the housing sector. I make that point to support the comment the Senator made. I ask to Mr. Fitzpatrick to intervene please.
Mr. Pat Fitzpatrick:
As the Senator may know, we chair the national implementation steering group for the national housing strategy for disabled people. That is with a number of partners, NGOs and everybody involved in that space. Regarding our role, there are a significant number of actions, and much of that is with the sector to try to improve, first of all, information about access to supports.
Second, regarding the gathering of information, the Senator asked how we know what proportion of housing is being allocated. There are certain difficulties related to gathering numbers. On the social housing side, we do surveys every year with the local authorities in terms of allocations and households. The Senator will appreciate that households may consist of one person. It may be a single-person household with a disability or a single person with multiple disabilities, so categorising those can be a challenge. In respect of the overall numbers, the latest figures we have are from 2023 or 2024. Figures are due out shortly. Of the 13,625 allocations, 2,366 were allocated to households categorised under the local authority system as having a disability, which is about 17.3% of the overall allocation. There is probably hidden activity going on at the local authority level that is not promoted, and that is part of the strategy as well. That families are being allocated housing is highlighted. It is not necessarily being reported as disability housing or any other type of housing; it is an allocation. Our mandate is to try to get better numbers on that over the next years. We have just reviewed the implementation plan and part of that is to try to disaggregate those numbers even more. I hope that helps.
Mr. John Coleman:
I thank the Senator for her questions. On our activity in Galway, I am happy to report that we are very active in Galway. Some 345 apartments are under construction in Crown Square, which are the first apartments to be developed in Galway since before the financial crash. We have a number in the pipeline as well. There is a scheme out for consultation for Galway Inner Harbour for 350 homes. We have a further 220 in Dyke Road in the planning process. Galway is a big focus, as are all the Irish cities. We hope to do more in Galway in the near future as well.
Regarding universal design, I share the Senator’s sentiments exactly and I understand where she is coming from on that. We work very closely with the local authorities to understand their needs from their own housing lists and plan ahead accordingly. For instance, by engagement with the local authority on the scheme in the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum, we are awaiting a planning decision soon. It is hoped we will not get challenged on that decision. We have included a number of five-bedroom apartments, which will be for four occupants plus a care assistant, which are very bespoke and specific, and not easy to produce or design. That is only as a result of engagement with the local authority. It is an expression of how closely we work with local authorities but how much we care about that factor as well.
I will ask my colleague, our director of asset management, Enda McGuane, to expand on that a little bit for the Senator.
Mr. Enda McGuane:
I thank the Senator for the question. In terms of our provision of affordable rental properties, we are bound by the Affordable Housing Act, which ensures there is an allocation process that is based on lottery. Therefore, we can neither positively nor negatively discriminate on people and allocation of houses. Having said that, as we built universal design into our apartment standards and apartment topographies, instances have arisen where tenants have specific needs. We have worked with the local authority in that regard to access supports and services and convert units that are appropriate for that specific service user. The allocation process does not allow a pre-approach; it can only be when the tenant is awarded a tenancy.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will move on. We might get a chance to come back in.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Both witness groups mentioned the zoning of land and serviced land. As part of the housing committee when the first NPF was brought, I had a strong view that it was very restrictive and tied our local authorities’ hands when it came to the county development plan process. We need to give our local authority more flexibility when it comes to the allocation of population growth to where we have land zoned today. We had a number of cases in Wicklow where we have serviced land sitting available but we cannot build on it because we have broken our population target for that area and-or it is zoned R2 land instead of R1 land. Is it time now to give our local authority the flexibility to zone land where we have the services today so we can sweat the assets that we have? That is the first part of the question, and I am asking both organisations.
Mr. John Coleman:
I take the Minister's recent communication with the local authorities on the servicing of land as an expression of the sentiment the Senator mentioned.
To me it makes total sense that if we have land serviced and capable of development, it should be developed and we should build on it where we can, aligning with the population targets that have been sent out. I agree with the sentiment that we should have flexibility, given that we have a housing crisis, to develop those lands.
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I agree with my colleague and with the Senator's sentiment. The importance of that is illustrated by the fact that at any one time, one third of plannings will not be delivered. In order to achieve your annual housing output, you need to plan, zone and service sufficiently. There is a cascade in play. The Senator's point is well made.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We need to look at temporary infrastructure at this stage. In fairness to Uisce Éireann, no matter how much it tries, it will not be able to reach everything. We have solutions today that are much more acceptable. We do not want to go back on past mistakes in relation to private infrastructure but it is a possible solution to unlocking additional lands. What are the witnesses' views on that?
Mr. Phelim O'Neill:
It is key that great does not get in the way of good. I have to give credit to the utilities because they are looking at a number of temporary solutions. It is like trying to improve the network while also delivering on the huge projects in their pipeline which will deliver the level of capacity we will need going forward. They are working on two fronts: capital infrastructure for mega projects, as well as the sticky plaster solutions for the near term. We work with them closely and I have found them innovative and supportive. They are trying to find solutions at all junctures. It cannot be all things to all people. There have to be limits. In some areas of the country, the capacity simply is not there. The ground network, groundwater and type of material underneath do not facilitate these temporary solutions. It is case by case but I expect interim solutions will be key.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Moving to the capital side of it, how can this country attract the additional capital investment that is badly needed? Was the CPI proposal from the Government this week a positive move in attracting inward investment in apartment building?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
Attracting additional capital is necessary if we are to bridge the gap between existing output and needed output. Mr. Silke has outlined the rationale behind our report's preferred option. That option is reflected in the Government decision. In that context, we see it as one of a number of steps required to activate inward investment in supplying homes in Ireland. They are all interlinked and inextricably bound up with the other issues we addressed, including costs and land capacity.
Mr. David Silke:
One of the things that came up in field work we did was that investors want certainty. The more certainty you can provide them with, the more likely they will be interested in investing in you. The other thing is it is very much international. You are competing with investment opportunities around the world and need to keep that in mind. Certainty and international competition were two aspects that came up in the field work.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not have time to expand on this but the witnesses said there has been a complete fall-off in build to rent. What has caused that and how can we get it back?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
It is multifaceted. There are changes in interest rates. International environments have a massive impact on the attractiveness of real estate investment in Ireland versus other locations and other asset classes. That is a major issue. There is inflation. At the pivot point, we had a rise in inflation and interest rates and they squeezed margins and squeezed the logic for investment. Our report looked at the impact of the implementation of the RPZ regime, as tightened post 2021. There are myriad factors impinging on the attractiveness of the Irish residential property market for investment.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay. I will probably come back in the next round.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the witnesses for being here. I will start with the LDA. In 2021, I was told by the LDA that rents on the St. Kevin's site in Cork were expected to be in the region of €900 and €1,100. Is that still the expected cost of those rental properties?
Mr. John Coleman:
Those apartments are still under construction and making good progress. There are a number of affordable homes which will be zoned under the affordable for sale scheme. There are cost rental homes as well. We will not be able to arrive at the final rental prices until completion. We cannot say what the final rents will be right now.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Are they in that ball park or are we looking at a substantial increase?
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay. On Glen prison, the LDA was in discussions on taking over the site with the Prison Service. Who pulled out of those discussions?
Ms Dearbhla Lawson:
The Deputy will note that Cork Prison is still in the report on public lands. We published that in March 2025. It identifies lands adjacent to the prison as offering some potential for housing. That is subject to going through a process, understanding the needs in the area, so-----
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The only problem is the Minister for justice and Taoiseach last week greenlighted the building of a new prison on the site. It is a bit confusing. At one stage, it was being looked at for housing for the community and now the Minister has made this announcement. Did the LDA get notification of the changes?
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
But the LDA has not been notified of the changes.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is it not strange that the Minister makes an announcement but does not inform the LDA and it is still being considered for housing? I will move on from that. I apologise but there are time constraints. It is not the LDA's issue and I respect that. It is doing its best. On apartments in the Cork docklands, the LDA is working with Glenveagh and the average cost is coming in at €445,000. Is that the average price the LDA is now paying for turnkey apartments nationally, or is it just in Cork? Has a value-for-money exercise been completed on the deal?
Mr. John Coleman:
In a general sense, we deal with house builders and building contractors all the time so I tried not to get into specific projects. Apartments are difficult to compare. There are mixes between one-bedroom, two-bedroom and three-bedroom apartments, which all differ in delivery costs. Some have basement car parking, which is extremely expensive, and some do not. Comparing apartment schemes is difficult to do.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is the LDA looking at another site down there for regeneration? If this is the price set by the first deal it has done, it is setting a standard for what apartments are worth.
We also know that the private sector is going to be building apartments there. With the LDA paying €445,000 to Glenveagh, is that not the standard now? The price is going to go one way - up - so we are looking at €500,000 for an apartment in Cork now. That just seems crazy.
Mr. John Coleman:
The reality is that whether you build an apartment in Cork or the centre of Dublin, apartments are expensive to deliver. It is well understood by the industry that your average apartment, take it as a two-bed, would be north of €400,000. We get very good value for money. We run competitive processes that create bid tension on all our schemes. In fact, the last process we ran resulted, from opening bid to final contracting price, in an average reduction of €28,000 per apartment on our last scheme. From a value for money perspective, we are very secure. We build lots of apartments directly ourselves so we understand the costs involved in these. We are clear that we do not overpay for any schemes we do in partnership with housebuilders.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The benchmark now is €445,000 for the Cork docklands. Would it be fair to say that?
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Mr. Coleman. I have a question for the Housing Agency. How many cost-rental tenant in situ homes have been purchased and how many have been transferred to AHBs? How many applications for cost-rental tenant in situ have been received and where is the blockage in delivering this scheme?
Mr. Jim Baneham:
On the cost-rental tenant in situ scheme, I refer to the table of information we gave the committee, which summarises a number of different schemes. With regard to the number of homes that have been purchased, it was 188 at the time we assembled the data. We had accepted bids on 53. The total recommendations we have received from local authorities back on 19 May was 472. There is another cohort of applications that are still going through the system, as in we will be assessing whether they are eligible. That is a rough overview of the numbers coming through that scheme, which has been operational since 1 April 2023.
Other aspects of the question go back to the transfer of properties to AHBs. There was a legislative issue which prevented that happening, but that has been addressed in the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2024, which was passed by the Oireachtas in December of last year. The challenge we have with the properties we have acquired and the homes we are effectively landlord to is the very diverse nature of those properties. They are all over the country. They were built at different times and have different rents in place, going from as low as €400 a month to about €2,200 a month. There is a very big range of different types of properties.
On cost rental, from an AHB perspective, part of the requirements of the legislation is to set out your plan for the next 40 years as to how you are going to manage, maintain and operate each property. That is relatively straightforward when you have a new apartment block or housing scheme. It is a pretty complicated process when you have such a diverse range of properties. At the inception of the scheme, the diversity of the types of properties-----
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
My time is up. On the blockages-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No more questions. Once the Deputy has finished, I will move on to the next speaker. We have gone two and a half minutes over time.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was on the blockages. The witnesses might come back to that in a minute.
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will be very brief. I have a number of questions. On the LDA and the powers the Minister, Deputy Browne announced this morning, I am conscious that the language in his press release is very vague. Will that compel State bodies to transfer land to the LDA? We have had issues in Limerick with the ESB and other utilities, particularly with regard to lands in Rosbrien and them failing to properly engage with the LDA on transferring that land.
I also have a question about the LDA's engagement with local representatives, especially councillors. There has been a consistent back-and-forth between councillors, the LDA and the Mayor of Limerick. The whole process was rather unhelpful and could have been managed better. How much additional funding does the LDA think it needs for infrastructure between now and 2028? I know that an ask has gone in for €200 million for the Carey's Road-Colbert Quarter site in Limerick, and that will unlock 2,800 to 4,000 homes. I wonder when that will be approved.
I wish to ask about apartment delivery as well, and whether what was announced with regard to these changes to rent caps will guarantee the delivery of increased supply. Has that been modelled? With regard to the system of reference rents, I want to get an idea why, as is very clear, the LDA is not in favour of that, from the report it published last week. I want to know why. Is it because it is complicated and bureaucratic? The LDA might elaborate on that.
Mr. John Coleman:
I thank the Deputy for the questions. It is important to give context at the outset that the relationships we have with the State bodies that own land are generally very good and collaborative, particularly the ESB, with which we have a relationship on a number of fronts, including infrastructure but also lands it has transferred and facilitated us on. For instance, we have a planning application in Wilton in Cork for 350 homes. That is on land provided to us by the ESB. The general comment I would have on that is we have a good relationship with the ESB and with all State bodies. The reality is that, oftentimes, they would have mandates that are different from ours. They need land for legitimate uses that are non-housing. Sometimes there is a lateral tension between those mandates, and that is just a natural-----
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What if they are just hanging on to land because it is commercially valuable?
Mr. John Coleman:
We generally do not see that. We do not see people holding on to land that could be readily developed as housing. We have had a number of breakthroughs recently with lands that that have been made available to us. For instance, part of the car park in Leopardstown Racecourse has been released to us for the development of around 800 homes. We have had good success in accessing State land. The reality the State land bank is finite. It will not be enough to fulfil all of the LDA's ambitions with regard to housing delivery. That is why, and the Deputy referenced the announcement by the Government today, the mandate to acquire private sector lands on the market, which we have done in certain cases already, has been clearly mandated to us and further supported by the Government, which will help too.
On the compulsion regarding land transfers, we do not have the ability to compel State bodies to transfer land to us. However, the Government can help us in brokering some of those land transfers where we cannot agree them directly with the State bodies concerned. The good piece of news about State land is that local authorities tend to be the ones that hold land for housing purposes within State bodies, and we have a very strong relationship with them with respect to developing those lands for them as a service provider essentially, where we design, plan, finance and build the schemes for them.
On the specific point about Colbert Quarter, that is an extremely complex site-----
Mr. John Coleman:
-----and it requires significant infrastructure. We have some planning applications that will be made in the near future for a significant number of homes within those lands. Yes, it does require quite a large amount of infrastructure. We are going through the design and planning process for that at the moment and are continually talking to the Government about the funding of that.
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay, so an ask has gone in. Will Mr. Coleman elaborate on whether that might be approved?
Mr. John Coleman:
The funding for that infrastructure will have to be designed. We will have to get planning permission for it and then we will have to tender it to understand what the final cost is going to be. In tandem with that process, and I know time is wasted on the availability of the funding of that, we are in constant discussions with the Government in that regard.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I ask Mr. Whelan to be very brief.
Mr. Martin Whelan:
On the rent issues, I will ask my colleague, Mr. David Silke. From our research, the signpost was that the current regime was resulting in the exit of supply from the marketplace, with 28,000 rental properties sold over the past two years.
This was particularly impacting smaller landlords and there was very little new inward investment. We have talked about build-to-rent investment falling from €2.5 billion to less than €500 million. The real implication of that is for future tenants, with no new supply coming into the market. Regardless of whether the existing or future regime applies, any new supply comes at market rents and the objective or aspiration is that by increasing supply, we will ultimately put downward pressure on market rents. I will ask Mr. Silke to elaborate further.
Mr. David Silke:
Our lens was very much on what could happen in the context of RPZ legislation finishing at the end of this year. We had a very short time for implementation. We identified five issues, the first of which was the data required for a reference or points-based system. The second issue was the complexity of those and the time it would take to explain them and get them into common knowledge. The third issue related to disputes. We felt that maybe it could initially lead to a lot of disputes. The fourth issue related to compliance. Several other countries have had problems in relation to compliance with these systems. The final issue, which is the biggest one, is that it would be quite difficult to decide what a market rent is, on which a reference rent would be based.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is all of the speakers for the first round. I will go back around again but before doing so, I have a few questions. The first is for the Housing Agency. I invite its representatives to provide some background for the recommendation that was put forward for an RPZ system nationwide and then, basically, as is. It is my understanding that there were four different proposals on the table, including recommendations that had come from the Housing Commission. I am interested to know why it was felt this was the best option going forward.
My next question is for the LDA on the Columb Barracks site in Mullingar. There is a lot of controversy and angst in the community about the proposals for that site and when they can expect to see development on it.
Mention was made of designing and financing projects for local authorities on their own sites. I ask our guests to fill us in a little more on that, particularly the timescales for delivery. The CCMA was before this committee a couple of weeks ago and spoke about the four-stage process and the fact that projects for which it is meant to take 57 weeks to draw down funding from the Department are taking up to three years. What would the timelines be on local authority projects through the LDA?
Mr. David Silke:
Thanks very much for the question. We identified four options in the context of the legislation coming to an end at the end of this year. The first one was not to do anything and just let the legislation wither at the end of the year. That would mean that we would have an open system of rent, with no rent regulation essentially. We felt that while that might encourage more supply, it would be very detrimental to tenants who would experience very large increases in their rent. The second option was to continue on with the current system, or just extend it. The current legislation has been extended on three occasions already so it could be extended again, as is, at the moment. We felt that would not encourage further investment and while it might be of benefit to current tenants, it would be of less benefit to new tenants because landlords might front-load the rental levels in order to take on board the fact that the regulations were in place. The third option was a new form of rent regulation, which I just explained. There are examples around Europe of reference rents or points-based systems. Reference rents are based on comparable properties in an area while under a points-based system, which they use in the Netherlands, points are given for different aspects of a property and then multiplied up by a euro amount to calculate the rent. They are considered fairer in the sense that one is paying for what one gets. In Ireland, people often pay similar for a three-bedroom apartment or a two-bedroom house whereas with a points-based system, it is fairer in terms of what one is paying for. I outlined the problems we identified with that. We felt that such a system could not be introduced within the timescale we were working with. That brought us on to the fourth option which was to look at amending the current system. We looked at the potential problems with the current system and how they might be amended going forward. One option was to extend the system nationally. Another was the resetting of rents between tenancies. At the moment, rent is based on the property but we suggested moving that to the tenancy. That would allow the landlord to reset the rent over a period of time back up to the market level.
Mr. John Coleman:
We have a very close relationship with the local authorities. It is very important to us on a number of fronts. We are essentially aligned with local authorities. They want housing delivered on their lands and so do we. We do not go through the four-stage process, which is where some of the efficiency comes from. The timelines for us working with a local authority would be the same as the timeframe in which anyone in the private sector would deliver a scheme for them. The funding decisions within the LDA are largely made within the four walls of the LDA, which helps matters as well. There are various efficiencies. We also have a standardised design which helps with the design process too. The typical timescale for a scheme of the scale of Shanganagh, for example, would be one year in design and consultation with the public, six to nine months in the planning process, about six months for procurement of the contractor and mobilisation of the building contractor and then two and a half to three years of construction. That is five to five and a half years without anything going wrong, like legal challenges along the way. That is the way we have worked with local authorities across the country. We have a number of schemes, including one that we just turned the sod with the Minister and started construction on a few weeks ago at St. Teresa's Gardens, of a similar scale to the Shanganagh scheme. The efficient and quick nature of the decision-making process that we go through is probably giving us an advantage. I will ask my colleague, Mr. O'Neill, to provide an update on Columb Barracks.
Mr. Phelim O'Neill:
We did quite a bit of work with the local authority on Columb Barracks. Obviously it was used for temporary accommodation but that has turned into more permanent, modular accommodation. We had meetings with the then housing Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, and with the local authority in relation to the future of the barracks. We have done a number of master plans and some concept plans for the barracks. What is required is vacant possession of the site so that the infrastructure required to facilitate housing can be put in place. There is an element of the current occupation hampering somewhat the future development.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Senator Maria McCormack is next.
Maria McCormack (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
My question is for the LDA and plans to accelerate public land transfers in places like Laois. Despite the fact that roughly 2,500 homes were built in the last number of years in the county, we still have 1,164 people or families on the social housing list for Laois. Four years ago, in 2021, that figure was pretty much the same so all of the building that has gone on has not met the need for social housing. The bigger problem is the affordability of houses and the individuals in Laois who are locked out of both social and private housing because house prices have gotten way too expensive. We need to meet the housing needs of people in Laois, particularly with regard to social and affordable housing. I see from the opening statement that there are plans for 900 new homes on one available site. How many of those 900 homes are going to be social or actually affordable for the families of Laois? Are we looking at a mix of purchase and affordable cost rental on this site?
It is said it was a HSE site. When is it expected that the lands will be transferred from the HSE and when are more detailed plans on this expected?
Mr. John Coleman:
I thank the Senator for the question. The LDA, to achieve the maximum impact with the resources it has, has been focusing on the city areas to date. We have achieved quite a lot in a short space of time in that regard. We are now mandated to have a greater impact on larger urban settlements like Portlaoise and this has been decided by the Government, as will be seen in its press release today. We have been in discussions with the Government on that opportunity generally across the country. While it has not been a key focus to date, this being a function of capacity and trying to get the greatest impact from our resources, it will be a focus going forward.
On the specific property, there is a great opportunity in relation to the homes there. We are targeting the same cohort of the population that the Senator outlined, who cannot qualify for social housing but who are unable to afford private sector costs. Whatever we do will be targeted at the middle three deciles of household income. All I can say is that the cities have been the focus until now but we are broadening that focus and will have a close look at the site the Senator mentioned.
Maria McCormack (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I welcome that news.
The report also states the 28 ha site is classed as moderately constrained for housing but has the potential to yield 680 to 960 homes. What does "moderately constrained" mean?
Ms Dearbhla Lawson:
I thank the Senator for the question. The land she is talking about, around St. Fintan's Hospital – that is the site, indeed – was identified in the 2025 report on relevant public land. The purpose of that report is to identify land that could have potential for housing. It is quite a significant site, amounting to 28 ha. It is HSE owned and currently zoned for community, educational and institutional use, with open space. At present, the zoning is not appropriate for housing but that is the sort of thing that could be examined through the development plan process, working with the local authority. That is exactly the kind of thing on which we could link in with the local authority to discuss with it the opportunities for the site going forward. "Moderately constrained" means there may be some infrastructural or access issues and that the zoning has to be addressed, but that could potentially come forward in phases over the next ten to 15 years, or sooner, depending on the level of constraint. However, one would need to go through an exercise to consider the feasibility and due diligence.
Maria McCormack (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Given that Ms Lawson mentioned Laois County Council, has there been any engagement on other possibilities for land? If the site in question is moderately constrained and we have to wait for ten to 15 years, and considering that I receive calls daily on homelessness and the lack of housing, what does Ms Lawson suggest we consider more urgently for Laois? Is there an opportunity for more zoned land? Are any reports coming to the witnesses from Laois County Council?
Ms Dearbhla Lawson:
We certainly engaged with the council when developing the report over the past year. The plan is to go back to the councils involved in the process. There was very good, helpful engagement with the local authorities because we recognise that some of the sites will be taken forward. These lands are not necessarily for us to take forward but it is a case of identifying the pipeline and potential. We will be going back to Laois and talking to the council about the opportunities and what we can do to support the objectives.
Maria McCormack (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I really welcome that. That is lovely. Thanks a million.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I call Senator Mark Duffy, who is substituting for Senator P. J. Murphy.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I welcome all the LDA representatives. I commend them on their work thus far on delivering housing. I am from County Mayo and my question is quite specific. Have the representatives any proposals for the development of LDA projects in County Mayo?
Mr. John Coleman:
As I mentioned to Senator McCormack, we have been focusing mainly on the city areas to date. Our mandate is broadening to incorporate settlements smaller than the five main cities. We will be considering opportunities in Mayo going forward. My colleague Ms Lawson might talk about any opportunities uncovered by our report on State lands.
Ms Dearbhla Lawson:
I thank the Senator for the question. We did consider Mayo's potential. The focus is on towns with a population of over 10,000. Mayo, which I know well, is a very rural county and there was a limited number of sites to be found there. One site that has been identified, amounting to over 6 ha, is the Mayo County Council utility site in Ballina. It is a class 2 site and is moderately constrained, with potential for 190 to 280 homes. It is currently zoned for infrastructure and utilities, so it would be a site owned by the local authority. Again, however, the local authority may have other sites because this one has been short-listed on foot of a long process. There are probably more infill sites. I am very happy to take this up with the local authority.
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Ms Lawson. Could she clarify the location of the site in Ballina?
Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is great and promising. The reason I ask the question is that I know the LDA has done a great job in various areas. A nationwide approach is needed to help unlock the solution to the housing crisis. Often with centralised agencies – I understand the thought process – the focus is on cities. Obviously, there are financial impediments that make it more cost effective to target towns with populations of over 10,000 in addressing many of the housing challenges. This is a crisis that faces every community. I have a number of sites in mind and would welcome it if the delegates worked with me on identifying sites and perhaps with the local authority on delivering them. I have confidence in the LDA's ability to deliver quality accommodation, both affordable and social. A site that comes to mind is also in Ballina, where I am from. It is the Ballina Mineral Water site in the town centre. Its acreage is quite small. I believe it is 4 or 5 acres. It was purchased compulsorily by Mayo County Council to facilitate a Tesco development. Tesco then reneged on its initial proposal to develop the site. It is in the heart of the town centre and if we are serious about regenerating and revitalizing our town centres, we need to realise that while the sites may not be of the most attractive scale, they could have a huge impact in being the catalyst for regeneration. With regard to the site in question, there are seven residential units on the streetscape. A step behind that are a lot of green space and brownfield sites. Therefore, an old mineral water site can offer a lot from a regeneration point of view, providing housing, additional parking in the town centre and public realm work to stimulate regeneration. It can be very powerful and very impactful if delivered. I welcome the identification of a site in the area next to St. Patrick's Church. I ask the delegates to work with me on other sites across Mayo. In this regard, I am aware that councillors have identified several in Castlebar. I would like to work with the delegates to support with delivery because there is great potential to help shoulder the burden of the challenge that is the housing crisis right across the country.
New towns were mentioned this afternoon, but if we can address the needs of existing towns, which may be threadbare, especially at night, if nobody lives in their centres, it will be beneficial. I live in the town centre and see that from 6 p.m. onwards, it is quite quiet. It is the same in every market town across the country. Existing towns, where there are still family-owned businesses hanging on by a thread, can really be revitalised, and their charm, culture, history and heritage can make a genuine difference. I would welcome work on this. If the delegates have further thoughts on this in the couple of seconds left, I will welcome them.
Mr. John Coleman:
We understand the issue.
The interesting point about some of the city areas, particularly Dublin, is that they are quite built out already. Sometimes, when we go to the smaller population centres, there are potentially easier opportunities to access. With changing work patterns, more working from home and improved infrastructure connections, such as transport, there is an opportunity for us to take a long view on some of these sites and see what we can do to try to improve the situation in some of those towns that have become threadbare, as the Deputy said - it is a good word - but still have the potential to come back.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Following on from previous questioners, in terms of the Land Development Agency and the issue of moderately constrained land and the potential of 56,000 homes, the timeframe Mr. Coleman has set out feels very long given the context of the crisis we are in. I again ask the question: what can be done to speed that up and bring that land on board? In particular, he said the land report relates to towns with a population of 10,000 and greater. How much public land is there outside of that in those smaller towns that might also have potential? In particular, on the question of moderately constrained land, what can be done to speed that up?
Second, and very briefly, the question of public construction capacity is something I have spoken to Mr. Coleman before about and it is something we need to look at to address the skills capacity issue. Do Mr. Coleman and the Housing Agency see potential in the State developing public construction capacity where it would hire a number of builders and build capacity and building skills itself to deliver construction, even if it was delivering 1,000 or 2,000 units per year?
Finally, the proposal we put forward was called the homes for Ireland state savings scheme. I know the Housing Agency has not looked at this but does it intend to look at that ability to leverage the €160 billion that is in private accounts as a way to fund affordable housing like they do in France through the livret A scheme?
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will remind Members the two minutes is for questions and answers, not just questions.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy was very well aware of it so there is one minute for answers.
Mr. John Coleman:
I will be concise. I refer to the identification of lands in the State lands report that we produced and classifying them as such. The report is a statement of fact and the constraints on the land mean that where we have lowly constrained lands, we can target our attention on those because they are quicker to develop. It is useful to identify them. That does not mean we ignore the moderately constrained lands. What could we do to speed those up? It might be opportunities through zoning. Local authorities that have been asked to look at rezoning lands might provide an opportunity for some of those lands in that report.
The thing to note is that we should not be limited as the LDA, or the State, to public lands only. There is plenty of private land out there. Land is relatively cheap in comparison to the build costs. For instance, we paid €19,000 per apartment plot, on average, for a large site we acquired from the private sector for 4,300 homes in and around Clongriffin DART station. It costs approximately €400,000 to deliver an apartment so that is only 5% of the overall cost. We should not limit ourselves purely to public land. Where we have public land, speeding it up could perhaps be done through rezoning and the relocation of some of the legitimate services that are already on them. That would be something to look at.
On the self-construction piece, we have looked at that before. The public body nature of procurement and the specialisms there are in construction make it tricky but it is an interesting concept. It is not something we focus on now because we believe there is capacity in the big main contractors to help us achieve our aims in the years ahead.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is certain that the LDA will not be coming into County Galway because our largest town has just 9,000 people. That is unfortunate. The largest number of children on the homelessness list in the entire country is in County Galway. That is unfortunate because I have listened to what Mr. Coleman has said and thee LDA is making great progress in Galway city but unfortunately we do not feel that love out in the county. That is maybe something that can be reviewed.
I welcome what happened on the Dundrum site, where the LDA had made progress on housing for people with additional needs. What was achieved there is a really good template. Would the LDA be open to sharing that development with all the other local authorities because I know it was painful to get it done? I will not pick up on Mr. McGuane's comment that housing is a lottery but the parents of people with additional needs, who are born with a congenital condition and are growing old, want to know there is a plan in place. That is where the LDA can play a huge part in ensuring we can ring-fence properties during planning to ensure the skill set is within the disability provider to make it available because sometimes it is not.
Will the LDA look at doing that and supporting all the other local authorities? Could the agency think about County Galway and coming out to visit us regarding development?
Mr. John Coleman:
On the first question, it is absolutely no problem for any information we have. We are an open book, particularly for local authorities. There are no issues with that.
On the second question and County Galway, we have limited resources and we are trying to stretch them as much as we can. We hear what is being said and we will do our best to support.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Mr. Whelan and I discussed social and affordable houses as I was finishing up in the first round. The failure to deliver more social houses over the previous years has unfortunately led us into the housing crisis we are in now. My concern is that the delivery of affordable houses is exclusively focused on the large urban areas, unfortunately, and coastal communities are completely overlooked in this discussion. They face an unique housing pressure, competing in an international marketplace for housing that is unfortunately often used on a seasonal basis as well. Can I ask both agencies whether focusing on tackling this issue, working with local authorities and housing bodies, to identify smaller scale projects in coastal communities have a real, meaningful impact and ensure these communities are sustainable for the future? Unfortunately, a lot of these communities are dying on their feet.
Mr. Pat Fitzpatrick:
I know we have been talking about the larger sites but to come back to the smaller sites, we are operating a land acquisition fund as well, which supports local authorities. There have been a smaller number of sites but they are smaller scale and they are the type that support 15 to 24 units. We do that to support local authorities. Where local authorities identify suitable land, even in those areas, the land acquisition fund is available. The affordable housing fund can be available in certain respects. Part V is available to deliver in those areas. Part V probably requires more market level delivery so that is the bigger challenge.
As I said, there are opportunities for local authorities themselves. As Mr. Coleman said, the LDA cannot do everything. It is focusing on scale. Local authorities are an additional resource in this space and they are delivering projects with quite a number of homes on land that they have identified and purchased themselves. That is an important consideration in those communities.
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I will go back to Senator Rabbitte's comment. I was on site last week with some of my colleagues in Leopardstown, south County Dublin. A scheme is being developed with the support of various initiatives that the Housing Agency is involved in, including croí cónaithe cities, which is an owner-occupier support. On that scheme, Part V is being used to deliver universal housing and it is a really interesting example of what can be achieved through the combination of those various measures.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have a couple of questions so I will fire them out quickly.
I respectfully ask for brief answers. On output, the LDA stated that it would be the largest developer by 2028 and suggested it would deliver 5,000 units by 2031. What is the suggested output this year and over the next couple of years, specifically from the LDA?
Mr. John Coleman:
We should have approximately 900 this year on top of the 2,000 we have already done in the previous couple of years. There were 2,000 in 2026 and more than 3,000 in 2027. It takes time to build up the pipeline. We are dealing with planning. We are all familiar with the vagaries and challenges of that. We have a bunch of ready-to-go projects and contracts that are under construction right now. As we speak, 16 sites are under construction for 5,500 homes that are being built right now. The pipeline is very strong.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does Mr. Coleman have an opinion on the projected national output this year?
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Mr. Coleman does not have an opinion at this time.
I will go back to judicial reviews. Are other LDA sites apart from Dundrum under judicial review? What is the total quantity of units involved?
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Mr. Coleman.
I will turn to the Housing Agency. Its statement on the capital issue was quite stark. Capital will go from €2.5 billion to less than €500 million. The RPZ changes were aimed at moving that dial a little. Does the agency have other suggestions for how that can improve?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
Yes. I should put it in context that last year 58% of all output was funded through the State. People often ask about that. It is a critical context for any state that 58% of total output was funded directly through the Exchequer. People in this room can make determinations as to the sustainability of that over the longer term in terms of viability more generally and supporting inward investment. It is not one thing; it is everything and everybody. I mean that in the context of addressing costs and the construction capacity. It is about addressing the structure. We need to support the Irish development sector to be able to grow and to take on multiple projects-----
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does Mr. Whelan think that apartment building regulations, and apartment sizes and so on, need to be looked at?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
Not only do I believe that should be the case, but I also believe that is exactly what the Department is doing. From my engagement with the Department, and I have been in this role for a relatively limited period, it is absolutely, with a laser focus, looking at a whole raft of issues, which are the issues we have discussed today, to try to come up with measures that will support that additional investment. To be clear, that additional investment is absolutely key to the delivery of the additional homes that are identified. People talk about what that number should be. Whether it is 54,000 or north of that, it requires additional capital.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I hope I picked up what Mr. Coleman said correctly. Did he say that the LDA's capital funding is not an issue for it in the short to medium term? Was I correct in-----
Mr. John Coleman:
That is correct. We are well-capitalised. We are like any normal company that might operate in the private sector. It does not put in a bank account all the capital it will need for the next six or seven years. It does not work like that. It is drawn as required. We are well-capitalised. We have no issues around our capital. Of course, we talk with the Government on an ongoing basis about what our future needs are. The programme for Government committed to funding us to 2030, so we have no concerns at this time.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I wanted to check that I heard correctly that capital is not an issue.
I see the Housing Agency's delivery last year, simply in cost rental, has been quite significant at more than 6,000. Has it the funding in place to do additional cost rental at the moment?
Mr. Jim Baneham:
This relates to the cost-rental equity loan scheme with approved housing bodies. Applications from AHBs are still coming in and an approval process for AHBs is still happening. Maybe the pace of approvals has slowed down a little, just in response to the current funding envelope, but activity is still happening. What we expect when the new housing plan comes out is that it will, again, probably move forward beyond where we are currently at.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is Mr. Baneham indicating that the funding envelope has tightened a bit?
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I only have 18 seconds. I fully agree with what was said about capital. Fifty-eight per cent of €20 billion is almost €12 billion. The State cannot sustain that on an ongoing basis. We have to attract private investment. What is very frustrating is that we are sitting on €166 billion in deposit accounts in Ireland that we cannot unlock. There is a narrative out there about international financing that countries outside of Europe are relaxing their rules, whereas within Europe we are still fairly restrictive in those rules. Is there any scope in respect of those rules to unlock that €166 billion?
Mr. Martin Whelan:
I will defer to colleagues in other agencies, such as the National Treasury Management Agency, where I worked for over a decade. It would probably be better placed than the Central Bank and so on. Again, I reiterate that it is a very valid premise that if we can bring extant capital into productive use to address what is the biggest shared issue facing the country, that can only be a positive. In looking at that, I am happy to engage with other agencies to try to understand it better.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank everybody. That concludes our consideration of matters today. I take the opportunity to thank the representatives of the Housing Agency and the LDA for giving their time and giving us an opportunity to consider their views, and to ask questions and get the pertinent answers. We look forward to working with them. We will no doubt meet again within a short period. As Chair, my view is we need to meet on a regular basis. As I said, housing is an emergency that needs lots of arms of the State. There are a lot of cogs to be turned and changed. It is not one simple quick fix. We are here to ask questions on behalf of the taxpayer and to support getting those changes made. The role of both organisations is to activate housing. That is what we want to see happen. I thank them very much. That concludes the committee's business in public session. I propose the meeting goes into private session to consider other business.