Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 12 June 2025

Committee on Defence and National Security

General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed)

2:00 am

Dr. Karen Devine:

I can only build on what Professor Murphy said. Ireland used to top what is called the Good Country Index, partly because in our foreign policy we do not kill people. We do not have a body count in that respect.

On one occasion when I appeared before an Oireachtas committee, a deputy ambassador from the Netherlands approached me and asked me to speak to 30 other deputy ambassadors at a later date, which I did. When I explained what was in my paper, several people from those states, which were non-EU, middle-power states in South America and Asia, said to me that nobody wanted the EU to be a global actor and military force and nobody wanted Ireland to get rid of its neutrality. They said it was too valuable to them and urged us to keep it.

As Professor Murphy pointed out, the Government has stated that the fact the General Assembly has authorised missions is somehow irrelevant, yet there has been no Russian veto on any Irish peacekeeping mission. What the Government is trying to create is based on something that has never happened and will not happen, but what has happened at the UN General Assembly is being ignored. My paper has shown how larger states, including NATO states America, Britain and France, have traditionally underfunded UN peacekeeping.

The Government and the EU considered themselves very clever because they did not put what will happen to the guarantees in a protocol. In the appendix to my opening statement, I referenced the literature of the Referendum Commission that indicated to people that those guarantees would be included in a protocol. However, as I said, under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which is referenced in the appendix to the opening statement, there are so many aspects where that triple lock meets the requirements for an international agreement. Therefore, the Government, in pulling on that thread, could unravel the legitimacy of the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. That treaty would not remain in force and all the secondary legislation passed under it would be defunct. The reputation of the Government and the EU would be under serious question if this were to happen.