John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I advise members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, a member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting, and in this regard, I ask any member partaking via MS Teams that prior to making their contribution to the meeting they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Apologies have been received from Deputy Duncan Smith. As this is our first public meeting, I invite members to introduce themselves. They have a minute each. As a result, contributions in the first round will be reduced to six minutes.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I have been a Deputy for Kildare South since 2002. Before that I was briefly a Member of Seanad Éireann. I was interested in becoming a member of this committee because I have a lifelong interest in the area of development aid. For a number of years, I have worked closely with Trócaire, assisting it in some of its projects.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I am a TD for Wicklow-Wexford. I come from an unusual background, which is hospitality, but I have huge interest in foreign affairs and foreign aid.

I have spent the past eight years of my life living and working in Sri Lanka. I am very much involved in charity and have a huge interest in seeing how we can improve that sector. It is also a hugely interesting time to be involved in foreign affairs, given the current geopolitical situation. I look forward to working with everyone.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I am based in Carlow-Kilkenny but am originally from Belfast. I also have a huge interest in this area. I spent approximately a decade working in the international development and aid sector. I spent six years living in various countries in east Africa. I am particularly interested in exploring the challenges we are seeing in the aid sector and the mitigations we can put in place as a committee for some of those countries and communities most at risk from those challenges.

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I was elected in 2016. Previous to that, my background is in civil society. I worked with the National Women's Council of Ireland and the European Women’s Lobby. I come from that side of things. I have been interested in gender equality issues internationally. I also worked with Trócaire with a focus on peacebuilding and climate justice issues. Those are my work backgrounds. The international and foreign affairs committee was my absolute top choice coming into this Oireachtas because we are in such a crucial moment internationally. There are some valuable things we have in our international multilateral systems that need to be protected and supported. There are also a number of serious challenges and justice issues that need to be faced up to. I am excited for the discussion. I try to bring an international perspective to anything I work on and I am excited now to bring it to the foreign affairs committee.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I am a TD for Dublin Rathdown. I was elected for the first time at the recent elections. Before that, I spent ten years on Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and was fortunate enough to spend a year as cathaoirleach. I also was the leas-chathaoirleach for a period. My background outside of politics is in finance and banking. I have good experience internationally, having spent time with banks in Zurich, Switzerland, and in Boston. I particularly look forward to the trade aspect of this committee.

Noel McCarthy (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am a TD for Cork East. I hold a public licence since 2009. I served as a councillor in Cork County Council for 15 years. I am delighted to be on this committee. My background is in hospitality. I have a business in Fermoy, which I still run. I am looking forward to working with everyone on this committee.

Ken O'Flynn (Cork North-Central, Independent Ireland Party)
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I am a TD for Cork North-Central. It is my first time being elected to the Dáil, despite one or two attempts. Having said that, I am looking forward to working with this committee. My background is that I have worked locally, nationally and internationally. I have worked in international trade between the United Kingdom and China. I have also worked in the international property market and in the hospitality sector. I look forward to working with everyone in an non-partisan way on this committee.

Garret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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I have been a Senator since 2020. This, therefore, is my second term. I am also Vice Chair of this committee since last week. I am a member of the Council of Europe, along with Senator Stephenson. I have a keen interest in foreign affairs and foreign policy, particularly with regard to Ukraine. I worked a lot with Ukrainian colleagues regarding displaced children from Ukraine since the war started. I also was a short-term employee in the Department of Foreign Affairs when the former Minister, Simon Coveney, was there. I look forward to the next couple of years and the work we are going to do on this committee.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am Chair of the committee. I had the privilege of working for a previous Minister of State with responsibility for overseas development, former TD Tom Kitt, whom I know the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, has met. We soldiered together in very interesting times.

I am pleased to welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Neale Richmond, who has responsibility for international development and the diaspora. He is the first witness to appear before this committee. This committee was very keen that international development and the diaspora would be the first theme we dealt with. The Minister of State will give an update on his brief to the committee. He and his officials are very welcome to the meeting today. I invite the Minister of State to make his opening statement.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach and the entire committee for the invitation to be the committee's first victim. Sorry, I meant witness. I hope I will be back numerous times over the coming months and years. Before I start my remarks, I wish to say directly to the Cathaoirleach, with whom I soldiered, alongside Deputy Brennan, for quite some time in the same part of the world, that and I am absolutely delighted with his elevation to Chair of this extremely important committee, both on a personal and political level. I know he will work across party lines to ensure that a committee like this is not combative and that the work is delivered in a fair and equitable manner. I wish the Cathaoirleach, Senator Ahearn as Vice Chair, and the members all the best.

This gives me a great opportunity to engage with committee members on my responsibility as Minister of State with responsibility for international development and diaspora. I will approach the details of my role in two distinct aspects. I will begin with regard to my work with the diaspora. I share the long-standing commitment of this committee and its predecessors to deepen ties with the Irish abroad. The programme for Government commits to delivering a new diaspora strategy. I am determined to ensure our relationship with the global Irish is one that recognises their aspirations and needs. I do not believe there is anyone on this committee who does not have a family member living abroad or who has not had the diaspora experience himself or herself. I lived abroad for a number of years, although not quite in the same exotic locations as Senator Stephenson and Deputy Brennan. I definitely understand what it is like to be a little bit further away. All of us still have those ties to the Irish abroad.

As it stands, I am engaging with our communities across the world. In this brief, I have already been to London, Coventry, Birmingham, Nairobi and Brussels to specifically deal with diaspora issues. I will travel to Boston, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia next week, with future planned engagements this side of the summer recess throughout Great Britain, in other parts of the United States and indeed in the Middle East. I have also invited all Oireachtas Members to a discussion on the new diaspora strategy on 26 June. That will be followed by the launch of an online consultation before the end of the summer.

One thing that has to be remarked when we talk about our work with the Irish abroad is our emigrant support programme. The emigrant support programme continues to make a real difference. A total of €16.5 million will be granted for diaspora supports this year, 60% of which will be allocated to front-line welfare care for our elderly emigrants and others who are vulnerable. I also wish to support emigrants looking to return home. I am aware many members have expressed support for a driving licence exchange agreement with the United States. Work is under way in that regard and I will be raising this matter when I am in the United States next week.

I have a long-standing personal interest and passion for Ireland's work in the developing world. Since taking up this role, I have travelled to Kenya, Tanzania, Sierra Leone and Liberia. In July, not only will I be travelling to South Africa as part of a G20 meeting, but I will also travel to Zambia and Zimbabwe. I want to see for myself what the focus on the furthest behind first in our aid programme means in practice. I invite and encourage this committee to undertake a visit to a number of our Irish Aid partner countries, particularly those in sub-Saharan Africa. I look forward to continued engagement with the committee in planning out any such visits.

The Government has provided the highest-ever budget for the Irish Aid programme for 2025, totalling €810 million. It is achieving important results. For instance, in respect of maternal health, where progress in recent decades has stalled and may go backwards, more than 700 women in poor countries die every day from preventable causes related to pregnancy and childbirth. These are unnecessary deaths. The developed world has the capacity to end them and to build systems in developing countries to ensure that progress is maintained.

Ireland has invested in maternal and newborn health since the very first days of our aid programme. We will continue to do so. This is particularly important in complex and protracted humanitarian crisis and conflicts where pregnant women, new mothers and their infants are especially vulnerable. For instance, our support for the World Health Organization contingency fund for emergencies helped to provide care for 30,000 children under five and to deliver 750 babies in six months of the conflict in Gaza. It is providing pre- and post-natal care for more than 1,000 women and delivering 570 babies per month in the crisis in Haiti.

One area of maternal health that demonstrates in practical terms the impact in which Ireland is having regard relates to pre-eclampsia, an unpleasant but eminently treatable condition familiar to many people. However, in the global south, to be quite frank, it can be fatal. Pre-eclampsia causes 46,000 maternal deaths every year and half a million miscarriages or still births. Ireland has provided €4 million over the three-year period from 2022 to 2025 to the Clinton Health Access Initiative in Mozambique to increase the early detection of treatable conditions such as pre-eclampsia.

Ireland is supporting the use of innovative technology to diagnose pre-eclampsia in pregnant women. Early detection is essential to facilitate treatment. In 2024, Ireland helped train more than 450 maternal health workers and screen over 115,000 pregnant women for pre-eclampsia. Our support helped save 5,000 mothers in one year.

Gender inequality and the empowerment of women and girls is central to our work. It is a prerequisite for any progress on sustainable development. We need to ensure that progress on gender equality is protected against the growing pushback on the rights of women and girls. To be frank, I am very concerned that progress will become a victim of an anti-diversity, equality and inclusion, DEI, culture war being launched by people outside this room. I am aware of it, concerned about it and determined that Ireland will act to counter it. The Government is committed to maintaining the level of our ODA, which totalled over €2.2 billion in 2024. In the face of humanitarian crisis, setbacks on global poverty and hunger and the existential threat of climate change, ODA is needed now more than ever before. Our commitment includes a promise to more than double our international climate finance by this year, to at least €225 million annually, and we will achieve that target. Recent cutbacks in ODA by some major donors are having devastating effects, especially on health systems and treatment for HIV-AIDS in southern Africa. The longer term impacts on vulnerable communities will be huge. Ireland is staying the course and working closely in the EU to ensure that we co-ordinate support for our UN and other partners as they restructure and reprioritise. I am in close contact with Ireland’s development NGOs on an ongoing basis to ensure that our support for them is as predictable and flexible as possible in this crisis.

Over the past 18 months, we have witnessed the unfolding of an humanitarian catastrophe of staggering proportions in Gaza. Over 52,000 people have been killed, more than 120,000 injured and 90% of the population displaced, some up to 13 times. We also cannot lose sight of the situation unfolding in the West Bank, where Israel is conducting its single largest military operation in 20 years. Ireland has stepped up its material support. Over €87 million has been provided since January 2023. This includes €58 million for UNRWA since 2023. We also strongly welcome progress on the review of the EU-Israel association agreement. We will maintain our focus on this crisis, on the suffering in Sudan and Ukraine, and on other humanitarian crises that do not receive the same attention.

Multilateral responses are required now more than ever, but the multilateral system is under significant pressure. The UN has been a cornerstone of Ireland’s foreign policy for 70 years, and it is at a pivotal moment that creates an opportunity to deliver on ambitious and urgent reform. Ireland is actively engaging with the UN80 process, through the EU and also in liaison with like-minded donors, agencies and partner countries. This initiative needs to be pursued with greater urgency.

In the second half of next year, Ireland will take on the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, in an increasingly complex geopolitical environment. Negotiations on the next EU multi-annual financial framework will form a central aspect to our work. Our approach will be to manage the EU agenda well, but also to focus on those areas where we can make an effective contribution based, crucially, on our values. I would like to put the committee on notice that throughout that process, I will be ensuring that international development is central to any EU Presidency programme. My regard and passion for maternal health will be central to that, looking at those practical conditions and situations that should be relatable to every Irish household, such as women dealing with pre-eclampsia, maternal health and the very basic human civility that should be afforded to everyone in this world. We need urgent work to ensure that is maintained in the global south.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. You referred to progress being made on the review of the EU-Israel association agreement. You were in the room last week. We were used to Ireland being quite isolated and acting with just one or two partners but things have moved a bit. Could you briefly explain what has caused that shift and where we are at?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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For context, in April of last year, the then Taoiseach and the Spanish Prime Minister called for a review of Article 2 of the EU-Israel association agreement based on our continuing opinion that flagrant human rights abuses are being carried out in Gaza and the West Bank by Israel. We were the only two member states that sought that. This time, 17 member states backed it, in the form of a motion put forward by the Dutch minister. It is the product of many months of very detailed behind-the-scenes lobbying by Irish officials, diplomats, stakeholders and, I would argue, politicians from all parties and none.

As for what is causing that shift, apart from this being one of the worst global catastrophes and the sheer level of human suffering happening live on television, there has been a moving political mood in certain member states. They have said that openly. I would repeat the words of the new German and Austrian foreign ministers, two countries that have been very vocal in identifying themselves as strong supporters of the State of Israel. They have said that while they remain strong supporters of the State of Israel, what they are seeing in terms of humanitarian blockades and increased levels of violence is simply unacceptable and must be stopped. Austria backed the call for a review, which would have been unheard of a few months ago, let alone 15 months ago.

What will happen now, most importantly, is that there will be an increasing level of global pressure, for what it is worth, on the Israeli Government to allow a lot more humanitarian aid into Gaza. What we have seen in the past week has been a trickle. It is not much better than nothing but it is something. Indeed, Irish trucks remain stuck in Jordan carrying aid that we have donated. However, there will be other focus. The British Government, for example, has halted its trade deal negotiations with the Israelis. The review will be undertaken by the European External Action Service at the request of the High Representative for foreign affairs. We await the report and the review. It does not take a genius to expect what will be in the report.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for the insight. The first questioner is Deputy Ó Fearghaíl.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State. It is good to have him and his colleagues from the Department here. It is reassuring for all of us. In these Houses we have great respect for the Department of foreign affairs. We respect very much the work done by Irish Aid and in support of our diaspora. The influence that 72 million people worldwide have on behalf of Ireland internationally is quite enormous. It is absolutely essential that we continue to have engagement and that we continue to support those members of our diaspora who are in difficulty at any time. It is reassuring for us also to know that there is somebody of deep commitment and ability in the Department. One thing I noticed in my previous job of nearly nine years was the calibre of the people who work for the Department of foreign affairs, both here and abroad. They have enormous commitment to service to the nation and to representing the best of what it is to be Irish at home and abroad. The departmental teams, whether the diplomats or others who work for us, are the unsung heroes of modern Ireland.

We talk about the current geopolitical situation and say it is complex. In some ways it is not very complex at all. What is happening is Putin is slaughtering people in Ukraine and the response of several governments has been to increase their expenditure on defence in order to counter that and prepare for any future offensives that may occur. The consequences of that are the deaths of many thousands of other people in the most deprived parts of the world. I have to ask the following question. Are governments that make that decision so morally bereft that the entirety of the cutbacks that are necessary to fund defence should be focused on their development aid budgets? That is not right. It is not right that the most vulnerable, who have absolutely no responsibility for what is happening in Ukraine and what is being done by the monster that is Putin, would carry the cost of that.

The second thing that occurs to me to be of enormous importance is the actions of Trump. I refer to the executive order he made ceasing the operation of USAID, which works in partnership with many Irish NGOs and international organisations. I do not see much point in attempting to negotiate with the Trump regime. They want to head in one direction today, and tomorrow they will change completely and will go somewhere else. Surely our appeal here has to be to the Irish in America.

God knows the Israeli people are turning to their friends in America to ask them to exert their influence. Surely we can ask Irish Americans to exert their influence to prevent the degradation of the American aid support programme, exacerbated by the US's decision to leave the WHO, wherein it was also doing valuable work.

Then we look at Germany and a reduction of €2 billion in funding since 2023, and France and a €1.8 billion reduction, and so on right across many countries in Europe. We need to appeal to our friends not to turn their backs on the most vulnerable.

Finally, I refer to the travesty in Gaza. We cannot continue just to talk about this situation; there needs to be action. When we see convoys of aid massing on the border or at short distances from the border, why can we not do more to insist that the UN go in and support aid convoys along safe corridors into the Gaza Strip and to the West Bank? Why can we not in Europe, for example, organise, as has been suggested, air drops of aid into the territory? Everything that can be done must be done, and we have to move beyond the impressive diplomacy to real and meaningful action.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Before you answer, Minister, the rules of engagement here are that the six or seven minutes include the questions and the answers, so you have a short window of time to respond.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I am more than happy to come back to Deputy Ó Fearghaíl with direct replies in due course, but to his question on air drops, our Belgian colleagues are trying to organise support for that. The issue with opening UN humanitarian corridors is that they are controlled by the Israeli military. That is why there is a blockade, and it is very hard to force your way into territory that is protected by one of the most heavily equipped military forces in the world.

As regards our partnerships with those around us, we will continue to make the case that Ireland is doubling its defence spending but we are not cutting our overseas development aid spending. That is a case we will make forcefully at a European Union member state level. We obviously maintain our absolute support for the work of the WHO. We do not believe it should be a binary decision between development aid spending and defence spending and we think those who equate the two as being one and the same envelope in expenditure terms are not doing themselves a good service.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The next speaker is Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire. Deputy, we had allowed a minute for introduction, so if you want to use that as well, you will have the six minutes then.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I will not use the full minute. I am the Sinn Féin spokesperson on foreign affairs and a TD for Cork South-Central.

I will take a slightly different approach from Deputy Ó Fearghaíl's and ask just one question at a time. I echo the respect for the professionalism and hard work of the Department of foreign affairs staff. I mention in particular - it happens very often under very difficult circumstances - the two diplomats who were in that situation in Jenin, doing their duty not only on behalf of Ireland but also on behalf of the world. I extend our condemnation of what happened but also our thanks to the diplomats for putting themselves in that difficult situation, at home and abroad.

Irish Aid is a project that has done a great deal of good. It is a model that emphasises tangible benefits to people on the ground. Unfortunately, we are in a very difficult scenario at the moment. The cuts in USAID have left a gap that I am not sure anyone can fill, and they will have huge implications. My first question is about one particular area that I know is of concern to people. It was briefly mentioned in the note and relates to AIDS prevention and supporting people with AIDS. The number of people who have died of AIDS or who were newly infected with AIDS has dropped very significantly since the mid-nineties. Now, many more people are living with AIDS, that is, they are able to continue living, and far fewer people are being infected than at the peak around 1995. I understand that is one of the areas where there is a big concern, so I ask for the Minister of State's reaction in that regard.

I ask him to also develop his point about maternal healthcare. We have a shared passion for maternal healthcare. Ireland has travelled a long distance but has still a bit to travel in that area. As regards the risks that exist, the Minister of State gave the example of pre-eclampsia but there are many other issues as well. I ask him to expand on those comments.

I might come in with one more question before we finish.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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We will give you two minutes on this one, Minister.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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On behalf of all the wonderfuly trained and far more qualified diplomats of the Department of foreign affairs, I accept the plaudits of Deputies Ó Laoghaire and Ó Fearghaíl and join absolutely in the condemnation of the shots fired at our diplomats last week in Jenin. It is also worth noting that another Irish diplomat was present in Washington, DC, when two other diplomats were killed in cold blood.

As regards the global cuts, it is right to focus on the sheer existential crisis being caused by the cuts to USAID. It cannot be completely replaced. The US was responsible for over 20% of the international development in the world, but what is less focused on is that the EU and its member states are responsible for over 40%. This comes into controlling the controllables. We have a say in the European budget. We have the opportunity every couple of weeks to sit with other European foreign ministers and make the case for them to maintain their development budgets. The difference with the cuts to USAID is that they were done, as Deputy Ó Fearghaíl said, in an executive order and then it was left to aid agencies and partners to try to work out what that meant. Our British friends have identified, regrettably, that they are cutting their development aid but they are doing so in a systematic manner that allows people to plan accordingly. That will have a massive impact, to be frank, on combating HIV-AIDS. Domestically, we have seen a bit of a retrograde step as regards HIV-AIDS in this country, which should not be forgotten about, and that has been highlighted in a number of reports. Certainly, in the developing world this is of massive concern. I underscore that we will be absolutely committed to all our programmes and we will work with the organisations to ensure they have not only the agility but also the peace of mind that the funding will be maintained and that we will look to see what more can be done with fewer resources.

I am glad to hear that the Deputy, probably coming from the same vantage point, shares my interest in maternal healthcare. It is really important for partners and dads to be a voice such that when people offer the hot take or give the shock-jock response asking why we are spending money on X, Y and Z, we bring it home and say, "Well, this is what it means. It means pre-eclampsia, which perhaps your mother, wife, sister, girlfriend or partner has experienced." That is what we are targeting and that is why we will make it a central focus.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is vital. It is also important that the issue of AIDS be raised at European level. These cuts could lead to potentially very serious loss of life. There is no point in sugarcoating it. There is a real risk to life because of these cuts.

Ireland will have the Presidency of the EU starting next summer. There is some opportunity to shift the agenda there. The Minister of State is right about controlling controllables in terms of the EU's aid budget. For countries that are under pressure financially themselves, and if aid is not potentially forthcoming for essential projects, is there an argument to look once again at the issue of debt and potentially that that can be explored given that the scale of what was provided through USAID will no longer be there? I ask the Minister of State to consider that. I know the Presidency does not control everything, but there is scope to add items to the agenda and to try to put a particular lens or focus on certain matters.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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There is no "could"; the cuts to USAID will lead to an extensive loss of life in the global south, from HIV-AIDS, conflict and insecurity to basic deprivation. There is no "could"; they will. We should not be afraid to say that. There is a moral imperative to make sure that people are reminded of that.

As regards debt, I will attend a financing for development conference in Seville next month where we will discuss the future of financing for development. One of the discussion items, at the behest of our Spanish friends, will be the area of restructuring debt. I am more than happy to engage further with the committee to discuss in detail how we might take a proactive approach to that.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I apologise; I have to depart but I will return.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I hope to give the Minister of State time to wrap up on points he has not been able to address.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I have three key points. First, on the diaspora, I warmly welcome the support programme. I often think about how the diaspora comprises both people who want to be away and people who have to be away. There is a major gap in that. Our support is for people who have to be away, and we do not have to look too far away to see what is going on. I warmly welcome the support programme and, if anything, would encourage expanding it.

With respect to foreign aid, I have a short story about my personal experience. After the tsunami in Sri Lanka, I raised €20,000 to buy a bus for an orphanage. I went to the country three months after the tsunami and was horrified by what I saw on the ground and how the situation was being dealt with. It was very poor. There was so much red tape when you tried to get anything done. Kids were sleeping rough and parents' bodies were still being brought in from the beach four months later. I bought a field and went back to the people of counties Wicklow and Wexford and got more funding. Twenty years on, I have six orphanages over there without any state funding.

Foreign aid is very important, as is spend that money and react to an international catastrophe, whether in Haiti, Sri Lanka or Nepal. It is wonderful to hear a Minister say on the radio a few days later that we will give €3 million to a country. but what does that mean to the kids in Sri Lanka? With respect, it means absolutely nothing. Going forward, on the day of a disaster, we need to get all stakeholders involved, including the consulate of the country and a delegation of people from these Houses to travel there, find out what is needed and engage with the people who can provide it. The question that is asked by everybody in the agencies out there relates to how much is going to the people that matter. We can never take our finger off that point.

My next point relates to Gaza. Gaza will define not only the Minister of State's legacy but that of all of us in these Houses over the next few years and months. It is great to see movement on Article 2; that is warmly welcomed. We have very much been criticising America, and rightly so. However, people far closer to us are supplying arms and some of them are involved in Article 2. It is key that we pick our battles. America may not be listening to a small country like Ireland about Gaza, but the Netherlands was supplying arms. We must pick our battles. When the Minister of State is sitting around the table, he gets to know foreign ministers. This is a key issue and it will define us. I read a shocking article 24 hours ago that said that for every 100 kids who were alive in 2023, two are now dead, two have been maimed for life, two are missing in action presumed dead, three have been orphaned and five have malnutrition. Approximately 17,500 kids have died. Some 1,700 of those were under one year of age. They were killed before they could walk. I rest my case and thank the Minister of State for his time.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Brennan sincerely, not just for his contribution but for his ongoing 20-year commitment. He walked the walk and that was well known to me long before he made the decision to join electoral politics, and we are all the better for it. I will touch specifically on our diaspora later in my wrap-up and give some detail about where the funding goes. I might talk first about how we respond to humanitarian crises because the Deputy is right. We hear headlines on the news about how we have contributed whatever sum and the vast majority, for no negative reason, will forget about that huge catastrophe within a couple of days, bar those who are immediately exposed to it. Our work only starts at that stage after the announcement.

In 2023, Ireland provided life-saving support and stocks in response to devastating earthquakes in Türkiye, Syria and Morocco, as well as the floods in Libya. In 2024, we responded to Hurricane Beryl in the Caribbean. It is crucial that Ireland’s rapid-response initiative provide critical humanitarian supplies as well as human expertise. In 2024, 95 tonnes of stocks was deployed to six countries and 39 deployments of personnel were made to 20 countries. In 2025 so far, Ireland has deployed 107 tonnes of stocks to Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Gaza, where stocks remain in Jordan, and 23 people. When we talk about stocks, we mean shelter, tents, tarpaulin, sleeping bags and base-level food that can be used for nutrition, such as grain and pasta. It is also small cooking appliances and things like that. Regarding personnel, these people are generally experts in their field who are used to dealing with questions such as how to triage the medical response, restructuring and recovery.

On Gaza, I am sure there will be other questions, so I will go into more detail and jointly respond at that point.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming in. I welcome his words on gender equality, women’s empowerment and maternal health, and I am glad the issue of development more broadly will be on the agenda for Ireland’s Presidency of the Council of Europe. I would like to see an increase and continued focus on funding for women's rights organisations, which I know Ireland has already done, regarding how we can lead and advocate with member states on that issue and around locally led development and the survivor and community-led approach to humanitarian crises, so that we are moving away from the types of colonial approaches that have long characterised much of the humanitarian sector. It would be great to hear the Minister of State's feedback on political leverage that can be used - he has spoken about ODA but we have seen member states decreasing their commitments in Europe - to see that realigned to the 0.7% commitment we as European countries signed up to, recognising that the scale of the USAID cuts and other member-state cuts have not been felt yet. Is there a way to advocate with those ministries in Europe in advance of that? Another point will relate to funding from member states for our humanitarian response during our EU Presidency.

The Minister of State touched on debt financing earlier in response to Deputy Ó Laoghaire. The Council had a disappointing conclusion in advance of the International Conference on Financing for Development. With debt financing and the forgiveness of debt in developing countries, we create a colonial, subservient approach with many countries. Approximately 93% of the countries most vulnerable to climate crises are in debt distress, so they are using all their taxation to repay their debt rather than on their own national development. This is an area we could explore to mitigate some of the impacts of the aid cuts. It is not a catch-all solution but a rules-based multilateralism around sovereign debt that does not replicate colonial characteristics is necessary. There have been calls for a UN-led process with binding principles on responsible lending and borrowing, which is an important area we could lead on when it comes to the financing for development conference.

We all share the same horror about Gaza. A private organisation called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation has been set up. Does the Minister of State know which countries are supporting it? The US doing so but some EU member states may be supporting it too. He may have information on that. I am very concerned about it as it relates to the humanitarian principles of impartiality, independence and humanity. It completely undermines our concept of what aid and humanitarianism is. I would like us to challenge that and I am very concerned about mission creep, whereby this may be just the first time we will see the privatisation of aid. It might be rolled out more generally. We cannot allow it to become the status quo.

My final point is on Ukraine. We have seen a huge issue of violence against women and girls. In all war contexts, they are the most vulnerable and at risk.

What can Ireland do to protect women and girls in the conflict in the Ukraine? The experiences they have had have been fairly obscene and horrible.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator. I am more than happy to go offline but I want to combine two elements of the Senator's points in relation to the funding for women's rights and gender equality and responding to where gender-based violence, GBV, is used as a tool of war, because there is sometimes overlap. The Senator has hit the nail on the head by emphasising the importance of utilising and empowering locally-led organisations. I recently visited Sierra Leone and Liberia, two countries the Senator is familiar with. There, Irish Aid is providing funding through locally-led organisations and using specific groups to target that. There has been a reduction, not just in rates of GBV, but also an increase in the participation of women and girls locally to make sure they can access these organisations, to get further tertiary skills, education and that level of medical and psychological care that perhaps is abandoned. I can list any sort of international treaty and commitment that we are signed up to but the practical part of it is equally important.

Regarding advocating within the EU, one thing I made very clear at the development Foreign Affairs Council meeting yesterday is that Ireland is firmly insistent that the EU remains wedded to its value system when it comes to the distribution of humanitarian aid. The Senator is correct to say that mission creep and privatisation of the aid structure are not acceptable. We have UN agencies for a reason. They are independent and trusted and Ireland will be absolutely committed to making sure of that.

Regarding the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, it is so vague and so opaque that is not clear who is part of it or what its role is. It is not something that I would want Ireland to have anything to do with. It is important to have the ability to reinforce that point.

On debt forgiveness and the structure of financing for development, the Irish position is quite clear. It is a little bit out of kilter with the unanimous EU position. I think the Senator would accept that. We will go to Seville trying to be extremely constructive and showing where our bona fides are and where we can work for as inclusive a system as possible, but we might need to have further engagement on that, which I would welcome.

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I congratulate the Minister of State. We took part in many debates previously in the Seanad so I am delighted to see him in this role. I will pick up on a couple of points about the financing for development event in Madrid. As has been identified, the cuts in USAID are very substantial. We are also seeing substantial cuts from our EU colleagues. These are significant cuts. I agree with one of the previous speakers who said there is a short-sightedness in rerouting all money to defence and cutting development aid. It is similar to the idea of cutting social cohesion funding to spend on defence instead. Development aid is the key to social cohesion internationally. It is very important in preventing conflict, as well as saving lives. In that context, it would be useful to hear more about what Ireland can do to advocate and press for this. The Minister of State mentioned the focus on maternal health, which I welcome, but I am concerned that we do not just focus on a specific area but on the volume issue. It is not solely about where the spend is; it is also around the fact that the level of aid in itself being cut has a huge knock-on effect.

Regarding the debt, I note that France has started a commission to consider its debt relationship with Haiti. France is also proposing a 40% cut in its development aid. The question of debt becomes very pressing with the cuts we are seeing. Another aspect that falls into the financing space for development is the question of climate finance and loss-and-damage finance. I am also on the climate committee and we have emphasised that climate finance is separate from loss and damage. They should not be coming out of our overseas development budget, although they are crucial areas of financing for development. Of course, loss and damage is particularly pertinent when we look to Haiti and the idea of countries paying back a former coloniser, effectively, for their independence. We know that we had the history of former slave owners being paid reparations, while former slaves were not. Many parallels have been drawn by countries in the global south with the idea of risk management for the major corporations in terms of climate movement not being matched by basic financing for those who have been impacted and who did least to cause it. In terms of that question, the Minister of State might talk on climate and how we ensure that funding and the development funding that is needed is maintained and is strong.

I will finish on two very quick points. Others have mentioned the concern about the new Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. To add to the discussion, apparently the CEO of the foundation has now quit. He said that the organisation did not adhere to humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence. Maybe it would be useful to think about how we chart things forward regarding this urgent issue of humanitarian aid in that context.

Regarding the diaspora, we are seeing a lot of very heavy-handed methods by immigration control services in the United States. Is there appropriate and sufficient consular and other supports for our emigrants? There is a lot of fear among migrants from many countries in the United States at the moment. I will leave it at that for now.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I will not repeat answers because I only have two minutes and I want to get into the nub of some of the issues that others have not raised but Senator Higgins has, if that is okay. Regarding maternal health, it will all be about the volume, but it is also about seizing things that are easily relatable to the tax-paying public and making sure that we can demonstrate this. It is not a prioritisation exercise but probably more a communications exercise, for want of a better term.

Regarding climate finance and the loss and damage fund, the joy of it consistently being shuffled around Ministries is that this was my last responsibility in the Department of Finance. I can guarantee that the appropriate spending mechanisms will be in place. I can confirm that we are on track to reach the €225 million target this year. In 2023, we provided €159.2 million and we provided in the region of €190 million in 2024. The Department is currently initiating a review of the roadmap for after 2025 in co-operation with the relevant other Departments. There is no fear on this, in terms of climate finance and the loss and damage fund.

I will spend a little bit of time on this next point. Regarding the situation in the United States-----

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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Sorry, Chair, I realise that I left out one crucial question. Will the Minister of State comment on what the timeline is after the review, of a suspension of the agreement, in terms of the time from review to suspension, if there is a report finding from the External Action Service? The Minister of State mentioned the review will be under way. This is in relation to Gaza.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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The timeline is within the gift of the High Representative and a referral to the European Council, so I cannot answer that question. It is a matter for Kaja Kallas. The Chair might give me an extra 30 seconds on this, because it is quite important. It will influence a lot of my engagement on Monday and Tuesday of next week.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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We need to keep going.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I will come back later regarding ICE in America, if that is okay.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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By way of introduction, I was a councillor in Monaghan for the past 12 years and I was recently elected to the Dáil. Sinn Féin has appointed me as spokesperson on tourism and the diaspora, so I am delighted to be on this committee to see how we can work. I thank the Minister of State for coming in today and giving us his briefing. I am sorry I missed it. I had to run out for a parliamentary question but I will read the document later. Am I correct in saying that the total amount of aid funding is €810 million? I was just trying to get a read of the document there. Is it €58 million?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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No. There is an overall budget, which includes our work in Ukraine. This brings the figure up to €2.2 billion. This is our overall overseas development aid budget. The specific international development budget is €810 million.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Okay. I am just trying to get a handle on things to see where aid goes. Can we get the budget sheets on them to see what the money is spent on?

Perhaps we could get that at some stage so we see where money is going. It is welcome that it goes to Gaza, Ukraine and Sudan. I would just like to see how it is spent, especially with the aid trucks not able to get into Gaza at the moment. Where does the funding go if the aid trucks are not getting into Gaza? It is very disturbing to see all the women, children and families starving.

Regarding the diaspora, I brought that up as part of my brief. I am interested to hear about the emigrant support programme. How much do we do for our diaspora when they go away from home? With regard to driving tests, for example, when they come back to Ireland and have a driving licence, can they get transfer to an Irish driving licence? In addition, for people coming from other countries - it might not come under the Minister of State’s remit but I know he can help with it - many are working as care staff and they have international driving licences which, at the moment, they cannot transfer. With the backlog for driving tests, it might be something he could look into under his brief as well to ensure that happens, and for the diaspora. They could be away in America for 20 years, they come home but they cannot transfer their licence, and have to do a driving test again. It would cut back on the backlog.

It has been pointed out to me that people who had PRSI stamps before they went away and became part of the diaspora are not eligible to use them again when they come back as part of their pension plan. Perhaps the Minister of State could look into that as well.

On the undocumented Irish in countries like Australia, or more so America because nearly everybody is documented in Australia, has the Minister of State been talking to the President to try to get some documentation for those Irish, because the Irish are needed in America?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I appreciated that. Regarding the expenses of Irish Aid and development, it is all contained in the Irish Aid report. I am more than happy to furnish her and the committee with the most up-to-date report, which will give a breakdown of exactly where we spend our money through our large-scale international Irish NGOs, embassies and partnerships with the United Nations under both thematic and geographic themes. Irish Aid has approximately 13 priority countries. All bar three are in sub-Saharan Africa, and Ukraine is parallel to that.

The emigrant support programme is worth approximately €16.5 million. We have a specific scheme then with €7 million with the global games development through our GAA. We have found the GAA is the unofficial embassy for people in many communities. It is important to stress exactly where the emigrant support programme goes to. It has been around for 20-odd years, and it is targeted at Irish who perhaps left in very different and far more difficult circumstances, probably a generation before the Deputy’s and mine. They left an extremely poor and socially repressed country to find a new life. Unfortunately, many of them are now of an age where they face very real health problems and other vulnerabilities. There is a massive cohort of them and it is important to stress this. A large number of Irish people in Great Britain who receive support from our emigrant support programme are survivors of institutional abuse. They are central to our work. They are perhaps in far worse physical and mental health than others and, to be frank, our debt to them is far greater.

Regarding the work on driving licences, we currently have an agreement with the states of Australia and seven of the ten Canadian provinces. Work is under way to get recognition on a state-by-state basis in the USA. The issue is making sure that the standards of the states awarding the licences are up to scratch so it does not diminish those on the road. It is something I have been tasked with by the Tánaiste. Another thing is we have seen more companies offering car insurance to returning migrants. I will not name one in particular, but that is a specific product.

There is ongoing work on PRSI with our friends in the Department of Social Protection, and I am very aware of it.

I will use this last minute to answer Senator Higgins’s question on a very real concern among the Irish abroad, particularly in the United States, due to political changes. Next week, I will meet with a number of Irish pastoral groups in Boston and Philadelphia to discuss that. We have to be very careful when we are dealing with the undocumented. There was a potential reciprocal agreement four or five years ago, but it was vetoed then by a still serving Senator from Arkansas, unfortunately. Much work was done in the Upper House, as Senator Higgins will recall, led by the late, great Billy Lawless, who I fondly miss. There are also a few other examples of where we are working with those particularly from the LGBT+ community who have raised concerns through our consular network. We have nine diplomatic missions in the United States. We work very closely with various not-for-profit and benevolent organisations to support the Irish in the US.

Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here. I am sorry I missed the start. Commencement matters overran because of the Dáil vote. I congratulate him and wish him well. It is an interesting brief and it provides an opportunity to do a lot of good and bring about support and help for those who are vulnerable, both the Irish who are vulnerable abroad and those from other countries.

I agree with a comment made on the grassroots movements. I had the opportunity to work with the Special Olympics in Tanzania and Uganda, and we got Irish Aid funding. The process that Irish Aid goes through is nothing short of excellent in ensuring that any money that is given is supported and spent in the right way with the right impact on the ground. In societies where there is an inbuilt gender bias, a baby born with vulnerabilities, be they intellectual or physical, is really left at the bottom of the pile. In many situations, these babies never leave the house. It happened in Ireland 70 or 80 years ago. In one case at a local Special Olympics club in a village in Tanzania, a healthy food programme was being launched through Irish Aid funding. The people running it came across a teenager who, when his parents went out to work, was tethered like a goat to the house with a rope. They supported that young man and his family, not just to get involved in healthy eating but to grow agricultural produce that they could sell and create an income with. This was for the equivalent of €65,000. Those who participated were able to grow at home on their own patches of land and be able to have food for themselves. I just cannot underestimate the impact that has. I say a huge “Well done” to all those involved in that.

It is frustrating and difficult enough to deal with situations that are caused by climate change and the economy, but to have to deal with situations like the Minister of State is dealing with now that are driven by conflict, manmade egos and territorial aspirations is completely shocking. One of my sisters volunteered with Médecins Sans Frontières in Sudan 20 years ago. I recall her coming back and talking about it, and it has not improved in any way. She was despairing all that time ago.

It is concerning to see the cuts by USAID and some European countries because this will impact on women and children, especially those who are more vulnerable. While it is important to have a multilateral approach, we cannot take our eye off the ball in respect of what Ireland can do, has done and continues to do, and I know that it will happen under the Minister of State’s leadership.

Regarding the new diaspora strategy, our relationship with the global Irish is hugely important. We need to support those who are undocumented, who live abroad and particularly those who are not doing well.

We must also ensure there is reciprocal recognition of professional qualifications for Irish people going abroad and migrants coming here. Teachers are still not recognised for their service abroad in secondary schools when they come back here. At a time we have a shortage of teachers, we need to work on this collectively.

The last issue I will mention relates to the EU Presidency. This is an important role and it would be great to have further engagement on that during the next 12 months and on the priorities we as a country can set regarding the responsibilities the Minister of State has.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for that. The ethos driving our work in Irish aid is to reach the furthest behind first, that is, the most vulnerable people not just in a geographic sense but in the challenges life has befallen them through no fault of their own. This is what justifies the work. I was very taken by the Senator's comment that this is a role, a brief and a Department that has an opportunity to do a lot of good. It is a lot easier to explain to a seven-year-old and a five-year-old what I am doing than it was when I was talking about the platform directive at an EPSCO Council meeting. I do not say that to make light or be simplistic in any way but it is about getting the basic things first in this Department. Looking at our work with our diaspora and emigrant support programme, more than 60% of that goes to those who are most vulnerable and need the support most. Many Irish cultural, sporting and other opportunities are rightly supported but key in our foresight is those we owe a debt to as a nation and society.

Garret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the committee and congratulate him on his portfolio. It is something he has been interested in since long before he was a Seanad Member and I know he will do very good work. I also acknowledge his staff. As I said in my opening contribution, I had the privilege of working in the Department of Foreign Affairs for a period and I witnessed the dedication and commitment all staff in Ireland and abroad hold when they are in roles within that Department. I thank them for that.

Much of the discussion has been on aid, particularly to Gaza. We had a report several days ago of aid to Ukraine that was stored being bombed by Russia. This is probably the most high-profile case but it is not the first. There have been many times where Irish aid has gone into Ukraine and has not reached its destination because of missiles from Russia. Does the Minister of State have a comment on that and on what he in his role can do to try to protect the aid to Ukraine? The impact the cuts in global aid will have was mentioned a few times. We probably have not seen the full impact of it but has any research done by the Department or European Union into what the expected impacts of those cuts may be? What countries will be impacted by them and how can we to rectify this?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for that. Regarding the reports of Russia bombing humanitarian aid - I think it was in the Irish Independent this morning - this is not the first time. It is very clear, and we all recognise, that Vladimir Putin is using hunger as a tool of war. He is attacking medical facilities and energy sources, and I have no doubt he is, quite simply, committing war crimes. We have set up a tribunal in recent days and the Council of Europe will have the honour of ratifying it. Ireland is one of the original movers on this to ensure there is, whenever this bloody conflict ends, accountability, which is really important.

Regarding Ireland's direct support to Ukraine since February 2022, we have contributed approximately €138 million in humanitarian assistance. We committed €100 million more recently, bilaterally, in non-lethal military support to Ukraine. As the Senator will know, in the past couple of years, we have welcomed more than 116,000 Ukrainians under the temporary protection directive and latest estimates, based on PPS numbers are that there are currently 80,000 Ukrainians in the State. It should not be forgotten we did not just give the money in terms of humanitarian aid directly to Ukraine but also to neighbouring countries that are shouldering more of the burden from a humanitarian point of view, most notably Moldova and Poland.

To be frank, it is too early to get a good idea of the impact of aid cuts. I go back to the point I made that the executive order signed by the American president on the supposed USAID cuts is very opaque. A number of aid agencies have been able to get reimbursement for funds, while others simply have but we are in constant contact with the large Irish aid agencies. We acknowledge reports that, unfortunately, one or two of them have let quite a number of staff go. This is not just staff in the field and outside Ireland but also domestic staff. These cuts will impact every developing country in the world. No country is immune to this. Certain aid agencies are less exposed to the reliance on USAID but more are exposed to potential co-operation with the United Kingdom's or Germany's budgets.

Irish Aid works specifically with USAID in two countries: Zambia and Malawi. There is ongoing particular assistance there but other programmes are just as equally at risk.

Garret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State mentioned the EU Presidency in his opening statement, which we will hold at the second half of 2026, and about maternal health being a priority. What other priorities does he think he and the Department should have during those six months?

The last question relates to the diaspora abroad. I have had a number cases in recent months of Irish citizens who have been deported. That had not happened much in the previous five years. Again, it is probably too early to have statistics but from my own short experience of it, this does seem to be the case. There was one high-profile case several weeks ago of a woman who was deported back to Ireland. Have the numbers increased under the Trump Administration or is it too early to say?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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Anecdotally, they have increased in the context of the sheer level of activity. We would have seen this with the previous Presidency and they were going up under Other Presidencies also. One thing we have seen anecdotally is an increased number of applications under the foreign birth register for Irish passports, which is often a tell-tale sign. It is something we will keep a close eye on, particularly on the ground in our engagement with our consular services. This is something we do not talk about in the media because it is very delicate. It affects individuals and families and we must ensure they are protected.

There are many priorities for the Presidency but first among mine will be maintaining the EU's development aid budget.

Garret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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For the record, I engaged with the consulate in New York and they were exceptional to deal with.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Ahearn. I call Senator O'Reilly next. He can use a minute to introduce himself to the public and then he will have his six minutes. He does not have to use all of them.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I am a Fine Gael Senator and spokesperson on finance. I have been on this committee previously and been spokesperson on foreign affairs so I am certainly looking forward to working with the Chair.

I am delighted to welcome my friend and member of the Cavan diaspora, the Minister of State. He is part of our diaspora and we consider anyone living outside of Cavan to be in a less advantageous position. On a serious note, it is a pleasure to welcome him and to have him here.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I may have to rule on that comment.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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It might not just be germane to the proceedings.

I welcome the Minister of State to this important discussion and brief. I had another meeting to do with staffing in the House earlier, which is of mutual interest to us all, so I could not leave that. However, this is a critical discussion.

The Minister of State said this year the Department is allocating €16.5 million to diaspora support.

I would be very interested to hear him speak about comparable figures for previous years and the increase it represents. There is universal support for this throughout the country. It is marvellous that none of us, as practising politicians, ever encounter at the doors or elsewhere any opposition to this. I have never yet heard a person say we should not provide this funding.

I am interested to hear about support for elderly immigrants. As a member, and as chair, of the local authority I used to go to London and the various association functions in England and America. I am sure the Minister of State came across when he was there. There is an older cohort from the 1950s and older emigrants who worked in construction, who are very different from the people going there now, and they are in a difficult position. When I was on Cavan County Council, we had a programme whereby we provided some housing for returning emigrants. Is the Minister of State aware of any initiative in this area? Is he liaising with local authorities? It should be encouraged. We had a nice development. Fr. Boylan, a priest from Kilnaleck, County Cavan, worked with the Irish communities in London and pioneered this initiative with our county manager. We had traditional old people dwellings in the village of Kilnaleck for older people who had come home from England. It was a marvellous initiative and it worked. I would be interested to hear the Minister of State's response to this. Does he see potential in this? Is he aware of much happening in this regard? Is it nationwide? Does the Minister of State sense from his experience among the emigrant communities a desire to come home and benefit from this?

The total budget for Irish Aid is €810 million. I noticed throughout the Minister of State's address a focus on women and pregnancy. This is extremely worthy and I certainly support it. I presume breastfeeding is important in this. I know from my wife's work in this sphere that breastfeeding programmes and parenting programmes are important in this context.

The Minister of State said we are supporting the AIDS programme in South Africa. There is a popular concept here that HIV and AIDS are in the past tense. Will the Minister of State comment on the degree to which the problem still exists?

The Minister of State used a phrase relating to drawing on our emigrants. This is something I would encourage. There is a construction group in London that the Minister of State might have come across. It is headed by Mr. Frank O'Hare. There is tremendous potential for liaising with our emigrant communities particularly, as I mention construction, in the context of our housing issues. Attempts to bring home construction people are one thing, but we can also learn from them.

We will discuss the broader issues of Gaza in the Seanad on Thursday. I will park those broader issues until then and, in the context of the Minister State's brief, concentrate on the issue of getting aid into Gaza. He may have commented on this already in answer to other questions. If he has, I do not want to bring him back to it. I would be interested to hear what the Minister of State has to say on where we are at with aid. Does he see prospects for it? Is he actively involved in the process and in trying to assist with it? As a matter of interest, is he aware of whether many Irish people are working or involved in aid work in Gaza?

These are a few general points. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator O'Reilly. I will not get to reply to all of his questions but it is worth mentioning HIV and AIDS. They are very much not in the past tense. They are still very real. Even in this jurisdiction, infection rates increased over the past two years. One of the biggest issues in sub-Saharan Africa is the sheer prevalence of undetected cases of HIV and AIDS. We have had great success, in particular on addressing the passing-down of HIV and AIDS through generations. With regard to the focus on women and girls, breastfeeding and maternal health, the vast majority of people we are working with are teenagers. It is a different concept and that is worth remembering. I will address Senator O'Reilly's other points when I sum up, if that is okay with the Cathaoirleach.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will give the Minister of State five minutes now as it is the end of the first round. To summarise what has been raised by committee members, clearly Gaza has been a very strong theme from every speaker on this committee. I want to add my voice to this. The Minister of State has been very clear on cuts to USAID. Other points have been raised on how we use our Irish-American political base, perhaps not more effectively but whether there are other things we could do. I mentioned the diaspora to the Minister of State and I ask him to flesh it out a little. How is it manifesting on the ground, particularly in the US? What granular detail is the Minister of State getting?

How can we be sure that spending on aid gets to the people we want it to get to? There is also the issue of moving away from the colonial approach to aid. States decreasing aid and moving away from the UN 0.7% commitment is a common theme among the questions. The privatisation of aid was mentioned by a number of speakers. Cutting aid in favour of defence was also raised. Questions were asked about aid to Ukraine.

The diaspora was a very strong theme and some very practical questions were asked, which the Minister of State has answered. Perhaps we will get a note from the Minister of State on this. There were some questions about PRSI and driver licences. While they are not the responsibility of the Minister of State's Department, they have been a strong theme today and they would be some of the easier issues to come back with a note on. I certainly like the Minister of State's theme of "the furthest behind first". He said there has been an increase in deportations. Perhaps he will flesh this out and give it context. He said it is a little bit too early to tell the impact of the USAID cuts, but what is he hearing? What are the fears around it? We will have witnesses coming before the committee in that regard. Support for elderly emigrants was also specifically mentioned, as was the HIV and AIDS programme, which was raised a number of times. On Gaza, action rather than words is a theme I have heard here and no doubt we will return to it. I will give the Minister of State five minutes and we will then go into round two.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. I will address each of these points very briefly and there will be supplementary questions. When it comes to the absolute horrors unfolding in Gaza, the priority has to be restoring humanitarian corridors and getting real levels of humanitarian aid to the people in Gaza, who are living in conditions that, to be honest, none of us can possibly imagine, even those who have worked in some of the most challenging environments in the world. The poverty and deprivation experienced is being compounded by a full-scale military attack. It is extremely harrowing. This is something we continue to prioritise and push. Our funding is being made available. Many of the foreign staff who were working in Gaza have left. Most of them left back in March. Certainly any Irish staff working for UNRWA did so. Now they find themselves either in Egypt or Jordan and are operating from there. Local staff continue, in the most difficult of situations, to try their best in this regard.

With regard to spending on aid, it is important to stress the levels of scrutiny that go into it. Irish Aid is fully subject to the Comptroller and Auditor General. There is a full audit committee in the Department and each of our embassies is subject to audits in country also. All of the auditors from our missions in Africa are in Dublin at present for a best practice exchange conference. It is something we take extremely seriously. People are right to want to know that taxpayers' money is being spent properly and effectively and that it is getting, in the most efficient manner, to the people who need it the most. I reiterate Senator Stephenson's point that using locally led endeavours is the most effective way of getting support to people who need it most, particularly in a development setting.

In relation to the phrase, "the furthest behind first", I cannot claim ownership over it at all. It is a long-standing Irish Aid value that someone far more intelligent than me developed quite some time ago. It really gets to the point of what we are trying to achieve in terms of supporting those people who are most vulnerable. Quite simply, to be a girl in certain countries means being more vulnerable than a boy. This is about ensuring those people are supported, especially in conflict areas and very unstable conditions.

Moving to the diaspora and the support given in that regard, in the context of the query posed by Senator O'Reilly, as I alluded to earlier, our emigrant support programme has funding of €16.5 million and this has been a consistent amount. We will probably have a similar amount going out next year. We recently closed applications for support under that programme and we look forward to making those announcements in due course of the organisations that will receive that funding. As I said, more than 60% of that support would generally go to those most vulnerable. Many of them are elderly people. When my uncle, for example, left Cootehill in the 1950s, the England he went to was very different. Equally, the Ireland he left was completely unrecognisable from the Ireland we know today. Many of the challenges faced by that generation are being manifested in later life through ill-health and mental health issues. As I mentioned, more pertinently, there are also those people who are survivors of institutional abuse.

To conclude in this round, when we talk about how we use the Irish-American political base or engage with it, as the committee will be aware, during the course of this St. Patrick's week nine Government Ministers and Ministers of State went to 15 US states. They engaged with the Irish-American business community and societal groups to ensure that the interests of Ireland and, indeed, of Europe, were made quite clear. I refer to the economic relationship, which we have not really touched upon much in this discussion understandably. That may be for another day. It is important, though, that the economic relationship is championed and it is explained just how important the EU-US trading relationship is to the global economic order. Equally, it is important to emphasise how it is a reciprocal relationship. Ireland is a major investor in the United States. More Americans are employed by Irish companies in the US than there are Irish people employed by American companies here. It is a trading relationship of extreme benefit. When we take goods and services together, it is also a fairly balanced relationship. Several Irish companies have made large purchases from American companies in recent years. This is about utilising those connections. Part of doing this involves one of the two new forums brought together by the Tánaiste of Irish-American business leaders. These are people who are of Irish heritage or working for Irish companies. The intention is to ensure we can have that engagement on the ground.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. We move to the second round of contributions now. Deputy Shay Brennan was not here for the first round. I propose, therefore, that we give Deputy Brennan six minutes and everybody else will have three minutes for this second round.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair. I offer my apologies because I just had a speaking slot in the Dáil. I had to leave to take it. I express my apologies to the Minister of State too. I do not know if I will take the full six minutes because I was not here to hear what has gone before. If I ask the Minister of State a question he has already answered, he can just advise me of that and I will skip over it. I can watch the playback.

In his opening statement, the Minister of State spoke about consultations planned for June in relation to the Irish diaspora and the diaspora strategy in particular. How is it planned to ensure - and I know it is online - that perhaps less well represented voices are heard? Obviously, it is easy to locate members of the diaspora in the US, UK and other English-speaking countries. There are, however, plenty of other countries that contain pockets of the Irish diaspora. How can their participation be encouraged?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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This is an important point, because it is not just an online consultation. The consultation has not yet officially opened. Just by way of information, our diaspora strategy lapses in December this year and we will launch a new one in April. The task given to me by the Tánaiste is to prepare a new strategy reflective of the profiled needs and demands of the Irish diaspora today, which evolve.

In terms of the engagements, I have had two official diaspora consultations. So far, these have been in person. One was in Nairobi and one just last night in Brussels. In those consultations, we bring a cross-section of selected Irish community members together. Depending on each country, then, there are representatives of the business community, Conradh na Gaeilge, the GAA, cultural and music organisations, as well as those who have just played a proactive part. Those people are specifically identified and include a mix of stakeholders and well-known individuals. In terms of the breadth of where we will have those consultations, I will also travel, as I mentioned, to Boston on Monday to carry out a consultation and then in Philadelphia. Further consultations will be held in Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow later this month. As I alluded to earlier, there will also be consultations open to Oireachtas Members. Consultations will also be held here in Ireland. Some of the other countries I will visit personally include Argentina, which has the largest non-native English-speaking Irish diaspora, the United Arab Emirates, UAE, Canada, other parts of the United States and France. In July, I think we will open the full online consultation. It will involve an extensive number of online requests for input. This is not just about people being asked to tell us what they think. It is very thematic and structured. The questions posed include what does Irishness mean, what more can the Government do and how it feels to be Irish in X country today. Supplementary to that, our embassy teams, led by officials based in Iveagh House, will also be engaging with the Irish community abroad. The process is currently under way in Singapore and will commence in Australia later this week.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Very good. I thank the Minister of State.

The Department has a significant budget and the world is in a situation where there are ongoing crises and hotspots. This seems to be the case now more than ever. How is it possible to prioritise the limited budget?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is correct that the budget of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is vast. In terms of priority, this is decided by our value systems. It is very clear in the Department's mission statement where our priorities are. This is all part of the Global Ireland strategy. It is multifaceted. It concerns boosting our diversification of trading relationships, our responsibility to our diaspora, protecting the furthest behind first and looking after Ireland's interests across the world. Depending on where in the world this might be, our interests might be slightly different. It is key to stress, however, that our interests should always be aligned with our value system, which is quite distinct.

In terms of where we work in Irish Aid, the list stretches to about 13 different countries. As I said, all bar three of them are in sub-Saharan Africa. Some have been long-established partner countries, while others are slightly newer. The Chair referred to his work with the former Minister of State, Tom Kitt. He brought Sierra Leone into the Irish Aid programme during one of the two times he was the Minister of State with responsibility in this area. He is now lobbying intently for Haiti to be brought back into the programme, as will be well known. These are the sort of areas in respect of how we prioritise. Again, though, as the Deputy knows as well as I do, this is all dominated and generated by the programme for Government.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. Regarding significant overseas development aid cuts by the likes of the US, UK, Germany and others, these have clearly changed the landscape somewhat. Different countries are now facing shortfalls in what they would have been traditionally used to receiving in aid. Have we changed how we apportion our aid in response to this development?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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No. The only thing we did in the last budget was that we increased our aid budget by about €10 million in terms of what we contribute. As I said earlier, but it is worth repeating and I am not doing this to be repetitive, it is quite early to assess the impact of the cuts by USAID. Other donor countries, like the UK, have flagged that they are making the cuts but they have not made them yet. That is actually a better way to go about this, though, because we know what is coming and how our aid agencies, in particular, can react.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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Irish NGOs will obviously be losing substantial funding because of the cuts in aid I mentioned from other countries. Are measures in place to ensure the survival of these NGOs, especially the smaller ones? With such a loss of funding, they risk having to cease their operations.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I am currently engaging with all our NGOs. I am meeting them individually and as a group. Each NGO is impacted differently. Some are not exposed to the USAID cuts at all, while others are undertaking full reviews and restructuring. Some NGOs have started that work already, particularly smaller ones. We are on hand, however, to ensure the programmes and work they are doing can and will survive.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. I apologise for keeping Deputy Ó Súilleabháin waiting.

Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin (Wicklow-Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Cathaoirleach for the opportunity. I wish the Minister of State well in his important brief. I am Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin from Wicklow-Wexford, which is a new constituency. I am on the education committee but have an interest in this committee too. I welcome the Minister of State's comments on Gaza. It is important that this State leads the way on action in the world, regardless of what the USA or other influential forces might think. The question I had is on the Irish diaspora. We know that they face massive barriers in returning back to the home of their birth. There are the obvious ones of housing, access to health, childcare, school places, crèches and motor insurance.

However, there are many other obstacles which are also erected. It is important that, as a committee, we identify and tackle these. One which was previously mentioned is driving licences. That is a big barrier. From speaking with people who wanted to return, there are significant complications with motor insurance. Qualification for social welfare include various criteria relating to living in the country for the previous 12 months. I have been a teacher for the past 35 years. There are certain barriers for teachers returning home. We have approximately 1.1 million people living here now who were born outside the island of Ireland. It would be important, if we are talking about labour shortages, as we often do, that we put a big focus on bringing our own people home. That should be a big emphasis of the committee.

I am wondering what we plan to do to actively encourage and facilitate the Irish diaspora to come home to the land of their birth. Would the Minister of State be in favour of a system of incentivising Irish citizens to come home? I think there is nothing wrong with giving certain benefits or facilitating our own citizens in a certain way. From being a primary teacher, I think it would be good to have our own primary teachers come back here to fill that void. We might need to have a system of incentivising our citizens to come home. What are the Minister of State's thoughts on that?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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Rather than focus on the macro issues that the Deputy rightly referred to, I will focus on what work we are actually doing. I chair an interdepartmental committee where we bring together stakeholders from all Departments to address the very issues the Deputy raised. He mentioned motor insurance. One of the last responsibilities I had when I was in the Department of Finance was to launch a new insurance company that specifically targets returning emigrants and new Irish who do not have that claims basis. It has been up and running for nearly 12 months now and is quoting quite a number of people every week. There is ongoing work on reform of the PPS system. I know there has been much discussion of teachers and looking at the increments basis. I am married to a primary school teacher. It is very difficult for someone who has been abroad for 15 years to come back in at the bottom rung. That is a wider discussion for other Departments.

The Deputy mentioned a system of incentivisation. This is something that our friends in New Zealand were doing ten or 15 years ago with a cash incentive. My priority is to work first and foremost in easing out those structural and administrative difficulties that the Deputy highlighted. If we can remove those barriers, including driving licences, motor insurance, credit ratings, and social welfare, let us start there and see how we can move thereafter.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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We are down to two-minute slots now. We will take all the speakers together and the Minister of State can wrap up.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for an informative presentation. I got a lot out of it. I wish him the best going ahead. I stress that Gaza is the most immediate priority. It is great to see work going on there. We have spoken about the diaspora, which is so important, especially those, as Deputy Ó Súilleabháin said, who would like to come home. There was mention of running events and getting people home. Looking at the larger picture, when you are travelling so far away, it is not for this day, but we have an immigration problem. When I am in Sri Lanka, going to get my visa updated, I see thousands upon thousands of people queueing in 38°C heat to get their visa to come here or to Europe. They do not want to come here. At the airport, you see young kids saying goodbye to their fathers and mothers and being left with their grannies, who should not be getting on a plane. If we could take the billions that are being spent on IPAS centres, hotels and whatever, spend those billions at source, build Irish factories and help them at source, I feel we would tick so many boxes.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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The Minister of State's comments have triggered a few points for me too so I will run through them quickly, since I only have two minutes. Obviously matters relating to the EU-Israel trade agreement are all concerning, but in the Irish Presidency, I would like to prioritise how we ever give credibility back to any trade agreement with the EU and another bilateral country. I feel like Israel's impunity and the fact that we are only reviewing it rather than suspending it, and that we have not done it sooner, puts into question any future human rights clauses in trade agreements. I know one is under discussion in India, where there are also many challenges to human rights. We need to figure out how we can put back the credibility and faith that that means something for the countries in which we are opening new trade routes. The Minister of State talked about Gaza and Irish people having left the country. Is any discussion or work being done to try to get Irish and EU non-governmental organisation humanitarian staff who wish to re-enter the country for humanitarian reasons back in. Healthcare workers were presenting to us last week about that issue. Many were dying to get back into the country but they have not been able to.

The Minister of State spoke a lot about HIV. Ireland might play a role in making sure that pharmaceutical supply chains remain open, that access to affordable generics continues and that countries in sub-Saharan Africa and elsewhere have the ability to pay for them themselves. We talked about audits and compliance. When we are talking about the locally-led approach, often our compliance in audits is exclusionary to local organisations. Obviously the end goal in development is that we do not have third-party Irish or European charities, in the long term, and that it is all locally led. I know there is a difficulty in our compliance standards. I understand why they are there and that they have to be there, so that we ensure financial safeguarding and safeguarding of individuals is in place. What steps can be taken to allow greater access for local organisations directly to Irish and EU funding?

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I welcome that the Minister of State mentioned the meeting about financing for development and the potential for further engagement. It would be good to have further engagement if we could, maybe in writing, about the agenda and outcomes of that meeting and the G20 meeting, which I do not believe we had an opportunity to touch on but is, of course, crucial from a trade perspective and the wider areas of co-operation. We talked a little about replacing the aid that is there and how we fill the gaps. When the global gag rule kicked in during the first Trump Presidency, we had a huge step up in areas such as women's rights and women's reproductive health. We are not seeing that now. We are also facing much negative propaganda about aid. Will the Minister of State comment not just on Ireland's role in encouraging aid continuity but also on countering some of the negative narratives about aid internationally? Ireland's record of untied aid is important.

Will the Minister of State comment on ongoing support for civil society organisations and self-advocacy in developing countries? They are crucial in tackling the root causes of inequality and injustice. We should continue that advocacy funding, which is often the first to go. At home in Ireland, will the Minister of State comment on organisations like Comhlámh and the Irish Development Education Association, IDEA, and the importance of supporting development education and continuing that strong understanding of our global interconnectedness, where development sits within that and the perspective that Ireland can bring as a post-colonial country? We can bring something very different to the understanding. It would be welcome if the Minister of State commented on ongoing plans in those strands.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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Some colleagues have referred to making it easy for people to come home. If I understand the Minister of State's brief correctly, and maybe he will clarify it, his role is more about liaising with the existing diaspora, making things better, working with them and alleviating difficulty than specifically trying to coax them home.

Does the Minister of State have a role in that because Ireland has a deficit of construction workers, nurses and carers? There is not a day in my constituency office that we do not have a family coming to us saying they have been allotted care hours and they cannot get a carer. The HSE cannot get them one. Ireland needs these people. Does it fall under the Minister of State’s remit to get these people home? If it does not, does he detect that enough is being done in this area? If it does, what more does he propose to do?

Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I agree with what my colleagues have raised. Trade agreements are a hugely crucial area in terms of human rights. It is an area that we need to focus on, particularly with the upcoming Presidency, and one we should not lose sight of. I did not thank in my earlier contribution those who work in our missions across Europe. They do an incredible job. I have been fortunate enough to have met many of them, particularly through the Council of Europe. In addition, the Irish volunteers who go abroad to work with Irish Aid, GOAL and Trócaire do an important job. The focus going forward should be on Ukraine and Gaza obviously and on how we can help and support the undocumented. The Minister said that 60% of the support abroad goes to those who are vulnerable. They need our help in whatever way we can.

Shay Brennan (Dublin Rathdown, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for his time and in particular for his clear enthusiasm. It is very welcome. We are a small country. We have limited resources but we attach a significant importance to helping those less fortunate. It sends a strong message to larger countries with deeper pockets that they too have moral obligations to humanity. Finally, I applaud the Minister of State's focused deployment of aid, for example, towards the pre-eclampsia situation in Mozambique. He can point to that saving 5,000 lives in a year. That is focused aid that we can see direct outcomes from. I acknowledge his hectic schedule and I applaud his willingness to travel to see and understand first-hand how Irish aid is being applied.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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When we cast out the net for ideas on themes from members of the committee, a significant number of them came under the auspices of the Minister of State's mandate and Vote. I echo my colleague Senator O'Loughlin. I ask him to pass on through his officials the committee's very best wishes to, number one, those officials who may be at the cutting edge and whose lives may be in danger in particular places. We commend them highly on the work they do on our behalf. The committee also thanks the missions, our ambassadors, the consular establishments and the contractors abroad. There are a huge number of contracted workers in the overseas development sector who have chosen to be there, including engineers and doctors who could be in private practice in different parts of the world but have made the vocational choice to serve their country and to serve the poor in a specific way. The Minister of State has five minutes to wrap up. I thank him for being so forthcoming and playing his part in what has been an interesting session.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair for the opportunity and for the level of engagement. This should be a committee in which there is great space for cross-party agreement, and we can embrace a collective drive. I sensed that this afternoon. I wish to address a couple of the points raised in the second round. Some of them are a bit more general. Deputy Brennan raised one clear issue related to Senator Higgins's point on negative propaganda. The issues that the vast majority of Oireachtas Members have been facing in our constituencies over the past year or two that have caused real concern for our constituents such as rising food and energy prices and the changing migration patterns all stem from global insecurity. How do we address global insecurity? The most efficient way is at source. It is by making sure that people in the global south and developing world are given the best opportunities to simply live healthy lives, to make sure they get an education, to make sure there are economic opportunities, to make sure there is equality of opportunity and to make sure there is safety from violence, be it through conflict or societal. That is why international development, to refer to Senator Higgins’s point, is so important, and why we all have to be prepared, as right-thinking people, to take on lazy narratives that I thought I only heard on social media and on the Internet but sadly that I have heard twice at EU Foreign Affairs Council meetings delivered by Ministers from other member states, which is extremely worrying.

Regarding Senator Stephenson's point on EU trade agreements and the differing interests of member states, it is clear that Ireland has a distinctly different opinion from certain member states on the EU-Israel association agreement. That does not mean in any instance that we should stop our level of advocacy or stop our approach to it but it does mean that when we look at future trade agreements, we make sure the human rights clauses are as watertight as we want but that we have to get political buy-in from member states. If we look at other trade agreements that are in the ether, they are far more advanced than when I worked alongside Senator O'Loughlin on the European Committee of the Regions Trade for All report more than a decade ago.

On Senator Higgins's point relating to the financing of development, which it goes to all of the points raised, the meetings in Seville will take place in late June, early July. They are not happening in isolation. We have the ongoing EU development ministers meetings, both formal and informal, that will lead to the meeting of development ministers at the G20 in South Africa in late July where Ireland is an invited guest thanks to our South African friends. It will also lead to the UN General Assembly where there will be a specific day relating to development issues in late September followed by the next round of the COP in Brazil where there is a specific day related to development in addressing climate change and the seventh EU Africa Union summit that is due to take place in Africa by the end of the year. I attended a meeting of EU and African members last week in Brussels. This is the sort of timeline in the very near future where all the issues raised in this discussion have an opportunity to be raised, for us to reach agreement and for us to send the very clear message of the importance of this.

Senator Higgins and others very rightly mentioned the work of aid agencies and smaller local-led organisations. When they talked about making sure they are rights-based, I thought about the work of Front Line Defenders, which is based in Blackrock, but is very impactful in the developing world. Equally, when director general Gaffey and I met with human rights defenders in Liberia to discuss draft anti-LGBTI legislation coming into the Liberian Parliament, that is the real substantial work that is going on and is right to do.

Senator Higgins mentioned the IDEA, I look forward to addressing its meeting in Malahide tomorrow, which I think she knew about, as well as the Global Education Awards in Dublin Castle on Friday where we will talk to primary school students and their teachers and principals, people like Deputy O'Sullivan, who had that opportunity in the classroom, he has a different role now, to make sure the we impart this value system into the next generation in what is an increasingly difficult, and to be quite frank, scary global situation we face into. Now is the time for Ireland to seize the opportunity and the challenge and to be outspoken on our value system and more importantly to put our money where our mouth is.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of the committee, I thank the Minister of State for being so well prepared, for his presentation and for being so open and fulsome with his answers. I also thank his officials for the preparatory work undertaken in advance of this meeting.