John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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We have received apologies from Deputy Joanna Byrne. You are all welcome. I remind all those in attendance to ensure that their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off.

Before we proceed, I have a few housekeeping matters to go through, as follows. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit. In this regard, I ask any members participating via Microsoft Teams, prior to making their contributions, to confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Before we proceed with the rest of the meeting, members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice and ruling of the Cathaoirleach to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Members are also reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 226 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policies. We are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness to the committee.

The public business before us is as follows: accounts and financial statements and correspondence. The first item of business is accounts and financial statements. No sets of accounts and financial statements were laid between 12 and 16 May 2025.

The second item of business is correspondence. As previously agreed, items that were not flagged for discussion for this meeting will be dealt with in accordance with the proposed actions that have been circulated. Decisions taken by the committee in relation to correspondence are recorded in the minutes of the committee’s meetings and published on the committee’s web page. The first category under which items have been flagged is category B, correspondence from accounting officers or Ministers and follow-up from Committee of Public Accounts meetings.

No. R0004B, from Ms Madeline Delaney, chief executive, Charities Regulator, dated 13 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee at the meeting of 17 October 2024. Unfortunately, Deputy Farrelly had to attend another meeting. He flagged this item for discussion. If it is acceptable to members, I propose to defer it until next week's meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0005B, correspondence from Mr. Christy Duffy, chief executive, City of Dublin Education and Training Board, dated 14 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to non-compliant procurement. It was the practice of the Committee of Public Accounts of the Thirty-third Dáil to seek an explanation for instances of non-compliant procurement disclosed in the accounts presented to it. This was flagged by me. I am happy to defer it until next week because it ties in with other correspondence that has been flagged by Deputy Farrell and we can have a conversation about them all next week. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0008B, from Ms Bernie McNally, Secretary General, Department of Education, dated 15 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to non-compliant procurement. This was also flagged by Deputy Farrelly. I propose that we defer it until next week's meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0022B, from Mr. Denis Leamy, chief executive, Cork Education and Training Board, dated 19 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to non-compliant procurement. This was flagged by me, as Cathaoirleach. I will return to ETBs and a proposed course of action in private session. For now, I propose to note and publish this item. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0033B, from Mr. Paul Turner, director of organisation support and development, Dublin and Dún Laoghaire Education and Training Board, dated 22 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to non-compliant procurement. Again, I flagged this item. I propose to deal with this in private session and in our work programme. For now, I propose to note and publish this item. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0034B, from Mr. Colm O'Reardon, Secretary General, Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science dated 22 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to late submission of accounts for the Grangegorman Development Agency, the National College of Art and Design and SOLAS. It was the practice of the Committee of Public Accounts of the Thirty-third Dáil to seek an explanation for the late laying of accounts and financial statements of bodies under the committee’s remit. This was flagged by Deputy Farrelly. I propose to defer it to next week's meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0036B, from Mr. Brendan Gleeson, Secretary General, Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, dated 25 November 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to non-compliant procurement. It is proposed to note and publish this item but to redact personal data related to individuals. Is that agreed? Deputy Geoghegan flagged this item for discussion.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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To clarify, there is only one item in the correspondence that I want to follow up on. Do I flag that and we deal with it later? How is it done?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Deputy mean the issue he wants to raise?

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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Everything is itemised in terms of where there are breaches of public procurement. One item is storage services for €127,000. I would like further information about that. It is the only one that did not list a company, what is was or where it was located.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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We can write to the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to get further information, if that is acceptable.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0042B, from Ms Oonagh Buckley, Secretary General, Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications, dated 9 December 2024, provides follow-up information requested by the committee in relation to non-compliant procurement. It is proposed to note and publish this item but to redact personal data related to individuals. Is that agreed? Deputy Geoghegan flagged this for discussion.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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In the appendix supplied, two contracts were outside public procurement, for €300,000 and €400,000, with Ernst and Young. It does not explain what the contracts were for. It just refers to "experience with related work and need for consistent approach".

It would be to explain to us what those two items were.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I propose we write to the Secretary General of the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications to seek clarification and further information, if that is okay with the Deputy.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Is that agreed? Agreed. No. R0045 B from Mr. Hugh Creegan, chief executive National Transport Authority, dated 16 December 2024, provides correspondence to the committee on the national train control centre project. It is proposed to note and publish this item but to redact personal data related to individuals. Deputy Farrelly has flagged this item for discussion. If it agreeable with members, I propose we defer this item of correspondence until next week's meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0049 B from Mr. David Gunning, dated 17 December 2024, provides information requested by the committee on the substantial completion date of the national children’s hospital. It is proposed to note and publish this item. Is that agreed? Deputy Farrelly and Deputy Geoghegan have flagged this item for further discussion.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I flagged it in respect of today's hearing with the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board. It might be of assistance to members in any questions they want to ask.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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This was also flagged by Deputy Farrelly. We have that witness before the committee this morning. Deputy Farrelly will be here for the public session with the witnesses. I am happy to deal with this here. It is proposed to note and publish the item. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0059 B from Mr. John Conlon, chairman, Office of Public Works, dated 25 February 2025, provides information requested by the committee at the meeting of 22 October 2024. It is proposed to note and publish this item but to redact individual details. That was flagged by me and Deputy Geoghegan.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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One of the questions referred to the children's science museum. I ask that we seek a full update from the OPW on where the national children's science museum currently stands.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Okay. I also flagged this. I suggest we also seek further information on the arbitration process and get an up-to-date cost of that process. We know the initial process cost a considerable amount of money. We should get that information and, regarding the OPW, get some information on the cost of completing the report on the bike shed which was carried out by Deloitte. Is that agreed? Agreed.

No. R0066 B from Mr David Moloney, Secretary General, Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform, dated 20 December 2024, provides briefing to the committee on the Energy Efficiency National Fund. It is proposed to note and publish this. Deputy Geoghegan has flagged this item for discussion.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I flagged it in the context of the discussions we will have about the work programme and that there might be relevant matters in this in terms of exploring the Energy Efficiency National Fund.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Deputy happy to note and publish that?

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Okay. That is agreed. We now move on to category C – correspondence from and related to private individuals and any other correspondence. Our only item is No. R0057 C from Deputy Aidan Farrelly, dated 13 February 2025, requesting that the committee invite the Arts Council and relevant Department to a future meeting. It is proposed to note this item. Deputy Farrelly is not here. I think he would be agreeable to our noting this and that we have those witnesses before the committee next week. Is that agreed? Agreed.

We will now move into private session briefly before resuming in public at 10.30 a.m. for our engagement with Children’s Health Ireland and the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board.