Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I welcome the witnesses back. I want to go back to the issue Deputy Ó Cathasaigh raised regarding approved housing bodies. I appreciate that some predate by a considerable distance the existence of the Charities Regulator. I have serious concerns about the asset base of properties for which the mortgage is paid off and that are now unencumbered. A couple of years ago, the Department of housing and AHB representative organisations were before the committee. I pursued this issue and tried to find out who owns the asset when it is unencumbered. Looking back at the minutes of that meeting, I was told that 97% of AHBs are charities and as a result, their assets are charitable assets. I wanted to find out the beneficial owners and, for example, whether the directors own the assets. It was confirmed that was correct. Obviously, somebody has to own them. Is this a red flag for the Charities Regulator? The witnesses mentioned red flags and things they watch for. For example, if a charity changed its status and constitution, that is where the real risk is. Does that jump out at the regulator? Does the charity have to notify the regulator? Can it deregister as a charity? How does that work?