Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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On the last question, we are going to look at a review of the means test, which is fair enough. As for trying to target the fuel allowance at the type of house a person has, God bless us that would be an awful job as we tried to decide who would get it and who would not. The child benefit payment was mentioned, but the minute you bring in a means test there will be winners and losers. There will be somebody €1 or €2 over the limit and the Deputy will be in here saying, "Ah now, aren't you awful mean?". The universal payment means everybody gets it. We have the qualified child payment, or as I call it now, the child support payment. I have increased that considerably, so a person on a low income will get €62 per week for any child they have aged over 12 and €50 per week for any child under 12. That, in itself, is a very targeted measure for low-income families, and I mentioned the working family payment earlier. That is getting in there where it needs to get. What we would be talking about then is introducing a third layer and the Deputy knows, as I know, that the more layers we have the more complicated it gets. The ESRI talked about the second tier of child benefit. Such a payment could reduce poverty by 25% at a cost of €700 million. However, the institute also acknowledged detailed scoping would be required on the feasibility of such a payment and it would require careful consideration and analysis to ensure unintended interactions with other components of the tax and welfare system are minimal, so it is not straightforward. The ESRI also found social transfers targeting children, especially child support payments and the working family payment, have the greatest effect on alleviating poverty.

We will leave it to the next Government but I would not fancy the job of trying to figure that one out. It might sound good on paper but in reality I know there would be winners and losers and there would be problems there.