Professor Michael O'Flaherty:

I thank Deputy Stanton. It is very nice to see him again. I will first turn to the issue of casual racism. I could take half an hour just on that but obviously I cannot. Repeatedly when members of the Traveller community, and more generally the Roma and Travellers across Europe, are surveyed, they describe very high levels, well beyond those in the general population, of discrimination, harassment and even acts of violence. Most of this, they tell us, is unreported because they do not have the confidence to report so it goes largely unknown to authorities. A typical figure across the EU is that only one in ten incidents would get reported. This is the context of the expression of the experience of racism. By casual I am referring to the fact it is tolerated and that one can get away with it. We know it. I was born and reared in Galway and I come from the community in which you could get away with saying things about Travellers that you would not dream of saying about anybody else in society.

I agree entirely that it is deep and across generations, but what to do about it? There are a number of actions that can be taken right away. The first is accountability. People have to be held accountable for such acts, whoever they are. When those acts cross the line of the criminal law, then there needs to be criminal accountability. This is why I very much welcome the continuation of the efforts to amend the hate crime legislation. I very much hope the hate speech dimension will be addressed following the reflection that I understand is now under way. These measures are critical. Holding people formally accountable for criminal acts will be a very important element.

A second very important element will be building up a much deeper understanding of Traveller culture and how much it contributes to society. This is largely unknown, I would suggest. Very little of the story of Travellers, their culture and their contribution to society is to be found in the school curriculum. This could be addressed very easily and immediately. There are a lot of very practical things that could be done. It is not easy and it will take time; there is no doubt about it. It is very important we allow members of the Traveller community to lead in these areas, consulting them in a very respectful way and asking them what would work best in tackling this issue. It is not their problem and it is not their duty to fix it, but as the people who experience it, they have very important insights we need to take into account.

I will jump to the last question about how to support Traveller women. I do not know. We must ask them what would work best and let them lead with their ideas. That would be a very good starting point.

I do not want to say much more about horses but there is one thing. The Deputy reminded me of what a mother said to me in Limerick when we were there. Her son was taking the horse out and she said to me that the horse was keeping that boy sane. It echoes exactly what the Deputy has just said.

I entirely take the point on reduced timetables, but recorded or not, their overuse in the context of Traveller children is very worrying, for all of the impacts the Deputy has just described. We do not have segregation in the Irish education system, thank goodness, but reduced timetables are as detrimental as segregation would be if it were a feature here. It will continue to require high attention.