David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No problem at all. I welcome Professor O'Flaherty. We previously met when I was involved in the first NTRIS as Minister of State in the Department of Justice. I was also involved in the recognition of Travellers as an ethnic group in Ireland. He may recall that we made a declaration to that effect in the Dáil a number of years ago which was widely welcomed at the time.

I have a couple of points. Professor O'Flaherty mentioned casual racism and said it is not antigypsyism. He then went on to talk about the breakdown in trust with gardaí. I will pull back a bit to the casual racism. Will he give his view as to what that actually means from a societal and sociological point of view?

It is my impression that a lot of the so-called "settled" community are afraid of the other and afraid of the Traveller, for various reasons. The National Traveller and Roma Inclusion Strategy II, NTRIS II, talks about trying to fill the gaps between the two or build bridges between the two. It is quite often the case that when people hear about a proposal to house a Traveller family in an area, they start protesting and lobbying their politicians and their councillors. It is because they are afraid. Will Professor O'Flaherty comment on how those particular concerns could be addressed? I put it to Professor O'Flaherty that the casual racism and discrimination that flows from that at different levels has a basic fundamental foundation across the whole of society. Politicians very often reflect what their constituents bring to them, as do other agencies. This whole issue is far deeper and is not just superficial. It is very deeply ingrained in society. How do we deal with it and address it?

Professor O'Flaherty referred to reduced timetables. I fully agree. It is something I have been working on. It is very much my impression that it has been taken on board by the Department of Education to a fairly large extent and that it is not as prevalent as it was. The reduced timetable is a formal construct in schools whereby children are told they can come for a specific number of hours. More worrying to me is, if children leave the school at 10 a.m. having been there at 9 a.m. and no one takes any notice or they almost welcome the fact the children are gone and are not there, this is not documented. I am more concerned about this than the actual restricted timetable, which is recorded quite often. I have been trying to drill into that as well. The witness is right to say that, if they are not in school, it has an impact right across education and everything else. They also become prey to drugs and criminality, which was discussed at another committee I have just come from, and they are used by that element of society. Will Professor O'Flaherty comment on that?

I agree fully about the horses. Having a horse is almost spiritual. I have met some Travellers who told me that having a horse, dealing with the horse and looking after it kept them alive. It kept them mentally sane and mentally well. Professor O'Flaherty is right about the Roma as well. We need to look at that but there is a risk of combining both and we should be careful about that. Professor O'Flaherty said Traveller women are not supported enough. How would he see us giving more support? Who are they not being supported by? Is it the men in the families or is it society generally?