Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 2 October 2024

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs

The Windsor Framework and Related Matters: Discussion

10:00 am

Mr. Paul Lynam:

I will start with a couple of questions and then I will ask others to come in. Deputy Howlin made a point about naivety, as a friend of the Labour Party Government. That is very well put. The response that we have got is that we are open to listening and engaging with the new UK Government. The EU is completely supportive of a reset in relations, but the rule still applies: if you are not paying the membership fees of the golf club, you cannot play seven days a week. That was the analogy given to us. If we take, for example, the SPS veterinary agreement, which is stated chamber policy and has since become stated Labour Party policy and it will be formal UK Government policy, the EU is not looking for it, but it will entertain a request from the UK Government to engage in negotiations on an SPS veterinary agreement. It will be primarily down to the terms and conditions outlined in a lot of perspectives from the EU side of things. Something that the British have always struggled with is dynamic alignment. If the EU changes its regulations then the UK will have to follow. It is not just based on mutual recognition. That could be a sticking point for British politics, but we will not to dive into that. There would be a general upside to such an agreement. It is up to bodies like us to make the case, not just to the British Government, but also to the devolved administrations, which I know are advocating for it as well, in particular for Welsh lamb and Scottish whisky. These would benefit hugely from a veterinary agreement. The scale of exports from the European Union to Great Britain in terms of agrifood would be a net positive, with Ireland being a good example in terms of it being our biggest agrifood export market and also our biggest agrifood import market. There is a case being made in that regard. Deputy Howlin is absolutely right about the naivety.

In terms of the checks coming down the line, I will defer to Ms Lynch on the various steps and the additional costs. When we put up trade barriers on the various checks that have to be implemented and the bureaucracy that goes with that, it is an inevitability that costs will go up. We can limit or reduce those costs, but the UK is slowly but surely bringing in a border-targeted operation model, BTOM, which is going to mean additional checks. That will mean additional paperwork, costs and bureaucracy for Irish companies.

We have had round-table discussions with the UK Government and its officials about the physical infrastructure of those checks and the potential delays. We want to make sure that when the checks are brought in, they are as free-flowing and seamless as possible. In the heat of Brexit, we recall the talks of delays and the worry about the extent that they would be a factor. The devolved Welsh Government says it will not introduce border posts unless it feels the infrastructure and support is there to ensure that we do not have the bottlenecks we all fear.

I referred to the reduced trade barriers in Ireland right now in terms of the capacity of Rosslare Port and Dublin Port and the transit of goods to Northern Ireland. Ms Lynch could correct me on whether that divergence will continue to maintain or if the trade will go directly into the Northern Irish ports when things are up and flowing as expected.

We have met with Nick Thomas-Symonds. He is a very pragmatic guy. We are delighted he was appointed to the portfolio. There will be a couple of elements to it. The Government must keep doing what it is doing in terms of the reset of relations between the UK Government and the European Union. It is stated chamber policy that there is an opportunity in this regard. We have seen early elements of a secondment programme between the Civil Service in Ireland and in Great Britain. We have a lot to learn from each other. In particular, I do not like the idea that many of the British civil servants who helped to design the European Single Market are now being redeployed into various Departments in the UK and there is a potential opportunity in that regard for Ireland. I am interested to see whether Mr. Thomas-Symonds would be open to an Ireland-UK secondment programme, as we would be open to availing of a lot of that expertise.

As we discussed, the veterinary agreement is something he should push for. This is stated chamber policy but it gives me an opportunity to re-emphasise it. The shared Ireland unit and fund have been a great success story. That has been very positive. I would love to see us building on it in terms of a similar model and fund based on an east-west approach between Ireland and the UK to maximise trade and engagement. There is an opportunity given the reset in relations. There is a potential opening there that the committee might just raise with Mr. Thomas-Symonds on whether that is something his Government might be open to.

I will ask my other colleagues to come in on the various elements. I might start with Ms Lynch, and then if Mr. Donohoe and Mr. Finnegan have anything to add, they can do so.