Ms Saoirse Brady:

I will come in on the probation piece. The Probation Service has just launched its new strategy. I was at the launch, and the service did say that staff retention is a problem overall at the moment. Probation officers are social workers. We know there is a social work shortage. The service is looking at creative ways to address that. It will launch a restorative justice strategy as well. We did call for more supports for the Probation Service. Ultimately, a prison space, according to the latest estimate we have, costs €84,000 a year. It is probably more than that now because that figure is a little old. Some €6,000 or less will get you a community service order and probation supervision. That is much more effective as regards somebody not reoffending; getting back into employment; if they have accommodation, keeping that accommodation; if they have an existing relationship with their family, maintaining that relationship; and getting any community supports they happen to be getting if that is meant to help an addiction, although many people are falling between the cracks.

The Deputy asked about supports for people. In Cloverhill there is a really good model, the prison in-reach and court liaison service. It has diverted more than two prisons' worth of people who have mental health issues from prison. One of the programme for Government commitments that has been delivered is the report of the high-level task force on mental health and addiction challenges for people who come into contact with the criminal justice system. That was published two years ago. It was published the same week as the budget and it was not costed. Again, we have asks around that in our pre-budget submission, but one of those is around a dual diagnosis lead. That was committed to. We know that the Prison Service is open to that and that it is looking at recruitment and may have already recruited for that position, but we need to ensure that this is rolled out further and that proper support is given.

Ms Sweeney's story is an illustration of what happens to so many people, so many mothers, in this country because we do not have sentencing guidelines. We do not take into account what happens in the child's best interests. They do have this in England and Wales. We do not have sentencing guidelines for anything. Particularly when it comes to children, that is something we have to do. The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child is developing general comments of guidance on access-to-justice issues for children outside of criminal law or the youth justice system. We have made a submission to that and we have called for guidelines to be put in place.

Ms O'Shea mentioned earlier something else about working with mothers of three unborn children. Why is a pregnant woman in prison in the first place? Does she need to be there? Is that really appropriate? We know that there are facilities there but they are very overstretched. There are 180 women in a space which has capacity for 146 women, and that had already gone up overnight from 105, so there is an issue there around pregnant women in particular. There was a court case earlier this year - it was reported in the media - involving a woman who was convicted of drug trafficking. The judge mentioned that it was a first-time offence, that he felt she had been coerced by the man she had met, that he did not think she would do it again and that she was pregnant. She was still sentenced to prison and is going to give birth there. I am delighted that Ms Costello and Ms Sweeney got to present to the judges, but we need judges to go into prisons and understand what is happening more and more.