I welcome our guests. I remind people of their privileges and that they cannot participate if they are outside of Leinster House, etc. Those giving evidence have to be physically present within the grounds of Leinster House and should not criticise or make charges against any person, or identify him or her by name or in such a way that makes him or her identifiable. I think we all understand that.

I propose that we publish the opening statements from our witnesses. Is that agreed? Agreed. I suggest that we invite our witnesses to speak for five or ten minutes and that we allow members to ask questions and make comments for approximately five minutes. Members may ask more questions after everybody gets an opportunity to speak.

The committee is looking at Travellers' experience of the justice system. Today we will focus on Travellers in prison. The committee has already visited Castlerea Prison, Mountjoy Female Prison - the Dóchas Centre - and Oberstown Children Detention Campus. Travellers represent less than 1% of the population yet we make up 8% of male prisoners, 16% of female prisoners and 21% of children detained. The committee looks forward to hearing from our witnesses about this very important subject. We would like to hear about the experience of Travellers dealing with the justice system, including prison, and how we can make things better.

We are grateful to our witnesses for coming here today. They include representatives of the Irish Penal Reform Trust, the Traveller Justice Initiative, the Traveller Mediation Service and Barnardos.

Our witnesses are all very welcome here today.

It is very important for us as a committee to examine the justice system and, most importantly, why there are so many Travellers in prison in this country and what supports we need for Travellers. I am sure we all know the answers but it is important we document those answers and that this committee has a responsibility to work with the Traveller community.

We will begin with one quote a young man said to me in 2020. It was his first time to be in court and he was very nervous. I said to him he will be okay and that everything will be fine. He said, "No Eileen, I am already guilty." I said no, he would not be and that was up to the judge. He said, "I am guilty on the basis of being a member of the Traveller community." I want us all to be mindful of that before we start.

I will open it up to our witnesses. I ask Ms Saoirse Brady to begin.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Clearly, this has nothing to do with Uisce Éireann and that is perfect. I say this because the contention is that people believe Irish Water is holding up planning but clearly it is not. It is important that this point is clarified. It happens that it is then the Department or the councils themselves involved in this issue. It is important we join the dots in this regard. The reasoning is that the school could go ahead with its planning and put in its own wastewater treatment plant, but when we join the dots, why would that school spend in excess of €150,000 when that could go in and be contributed to in the context of the workings of the actual wastewater scheme for the parish or the surrounding area? My question is how this is determined. I think this is a very important factor because it is about value for money. We should not have a school having to spend this money when there is going to be an imminent connection. It would perhaps take the school a year and a half to two years to build the project, in which case we might be ready for the connection anyway. We are, though, not getting any clarity. This is the real issue. I would appreciate if Mr. Munnelly could come back to me with that information.