I welcome our guests. I remind people of their privileges and that they cannot participate if they are outside of Leinster House, etc. Those giving evidence have to be physically present within the grounds of Leinster House and should not criticise or make charges against any person, or identify him or her by name or in such a way that makes him or her identifiable. I think we all understand that.

I propose that we publish the opening statements from our witnesses. Is that agreed? Agreed. I suggest that we invite our witnesses to speak for five or ten minutes and that we allow members to ask questions and make comments for approximately five minutes. Members may ask more questions after everybody gets an opportunity to speak.

The committee is looking at Travellers' experience of the justice system. Today we will focus on Travellers in prison. The committee has already visited Castlerea Prison, Mountjoy Female Prison - the Dóchas Centre - and Oberstown Children Detention Campus. Travellers represent less than 1% of the population yet we make up 8% of male prisoners, 16% of female prisoners and 21% of children detained. The committee looks forward to hearing from our witnesses about this very important subject. We would like to hear about the experience of Travellers dealing with the justice system, including prison, and how we can make things better.

We are grateful to our witnesses for coming here today. They include representatives of the Irish Penal Reform Trust, the Traveller Justice Initiative, the Traveller Mediation Service and Barnardos.

Our witnesses are all very welcome here today.

It is very important for us as a committee to examine the justice system and, most importantly, why there are so many Travellers in prison in this country and what supports we need for Travellers. I am sure we all know the answers but it is important we document those answers and that this committee has a responsibility to work with the Traveller community.

We will begin with one quote a young man said to me in 2020. It was his first time to be in court and he was very nervous. I said to him he will be okay and that everything will be fine. He said, "No Eileen, I am already guilty." I said no, he would not be and that was up to the judge. He said, "I am guilty on the basis of being a member of the Traveller community." I want us all to be mindful of that before we start.

I will open it up to our witnesses. I ask Ms Saoirse Brady to begin.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Absolutely. Maybe some lessons should be taken from down in Wexford. I do not know. The other thing is that we do have an issue when it comes to the farming sector with regard to who is responsible for reading these meters. One significant issue, I have raised this before, is that farmers themselves are not able to read the meters because they are at a significant depth, they cannot see them, it is raining, there is water on top of them, etc. There are issues like these. I would like to know how this would be dealt with plus the frequency of readings.

Big bills tend to accumulate that are not expected. We must find a way around this issue. I am not saying people do not owe the money but a massive bill can come in that people were not expecting. We must find a way to deal with this problem. This is in the light of a situation where we are seeing farm incomes drop significantly. In the case of dairy farming, it is 67%, and also the case in tillage farming. We do need, therefore, to look at how we deal with this issue to prevent bills or bad debts from occurring. We might just be given a note on how this matter is dealt with rather than going through the whole process. I can liaise with my constituents on the matter.

I am interested in how we determine what goes ahead in regard to certain projects. I will just get the name right now but I am aware of the rural water programme. I will declare my interest. I am from Ramsgrange. It has a secondary community school with a capacity for 500 pupils but it currently has 770 pupils. A planning application has been lodged and the belief is that planning application is going to be turned down based on wastewater capacity. The real problem is that we are only one and a half miles away from where the latest sewage treatment plant was installed in Arthurstown. There is an outlet for Ramsgrange to access that facility, but that has not happened. I have been told - and it was announced all right by Government councillors - that the funding was there and it was all hunky-dory. It is not, and from what I am reading, it will take perhaps two to three years for that to happen, which is a significant stalling point for the planning. This is the case not just for the community school. It is a parish that has a community school, a national school, a pub, a church and a supermarket. It is a parish ripe for planning and where we need to build houses but we cannot because of our wastewater issue. I believe there are seven or eight other projects in this rural programme. How does Uisce Éireann ascertain which ones go ahead, because as far as I am aware, it is only going to be one or two from a funding perspective?