Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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This year, the EPA's sectoral assessment reasonably gives the most accurate sense of the showing in each sector. I read them in my introduction, with decreases in agriculture of 4.6% and in residential of 7% while transport had an increase of 0.3%. This is the baseline for this entire approach. It is encouraging that there is progress. It was even more encouraging last week when it was reported in the Irish Examiner that the assessment of MaREI, the independent UCC research centre which is probably one of our best modelling centres, is that we are on track to meet the first five-year budget. I would be the most thrilled person if this bears out to be true. It will be very challenging because it requires the 6.8% reduction we had last year to increase to 8%. This is very tricky but we are on track. What we are seeing happening in our country is not insignificant. We are starting to show real capability. This should give the Irish people heart because it is through their work that it is happening.

All of this independent modelling is very useful and it helps the EPA and the Department but ultimately the EPA is the arbiter because it holds the international assessment of what we are doing, which are the ground rules for this process.

The Climate Change Advisory Council has a similar role. There are various bodies involved, but its first critical role is to provide an independent assessment of where we are in meeting these budgets under the law. The EPA tells you what the facts are, but the Climate Change Advisory Council tells you what the implications are and what you need to do in response. The Oireachtas committee also has that scrutiny and oversight, and goes beyond that to hold each Minister to account. The Climate Change Advisory Council is working well. Marie Donnelly is a superb chair. It has technical and economic expertise. Its reports are taken seriously and are beneficial. I will take some of the examples mentioned. It is true what they say. We are not rolling out enough heat pumps. That is one area where we need to go further and faster. We need to respond to its policy suggestions and ideas, looking at how we reduce the cost, or how we incentivise them through grants or whatever different mechanisms. That is an example where it provides a useful pointer to where we need to go. It is similar with battery storage. It backs up what I said earlier. That may be evolving. The price of batteries has come down so significantly it may open up opportunities that people did not expect two or three years ago. The council's ability to see what is happening in real time and give advice to Government is very useful.

EVs are more complicated because it is part of a wider international shift. We have seen a drop in EV purchases across north-west Europe. We still have 135,000 EVs on the road. I am reasonably confident we will meet our target of 195,000 EVs by the end of next year, but we need to see a step up. The roll-out of charging is happening. This summer we agreed high-speed charging and are building out the high-speed chargers in our motorway network. There are approximately 17 stations with banks of really high-speed chargers. More than 200 sports clubs will have sports club destination charging. That makes sense to me. You go for training or are watching the kid and you can charge at the same time. That is real. It is contracted and happening and will roll out.

I turn to the national planning framework and whether we can get that compact development. The national planning framework always had three components, to my mind. In summary, it was promoting better balanced regional development, compact development and low-carbon development. The Deputy is right. We will have to look at what the figures say when it is published. It may be looking at further increased populations in some of the eastern counties, particularly counties surrounding Dublin. It is emphatic and clear, however, that will only be sustainable and work if it is on the back of public transport - the rail investment I mentioned, or BusConnects and other public transport services. That is happening. Dart+ West is through the planning system. It has to get through the legal system now, but I am confident that can happen quickly. If it does, we will build out. We have the trains on order. We are ready to go with running the new battery-electric trains to Drogheda and the new ICRs on that entire network so we have the capacity to cope with further growth.

I go back to what I said to Deputy Leddin. If it is just the east coast, then the whole country just tips over into the east coast. That is not in the interest of everyone on the east coast, because that would just force property prices ever higher. It makes sense for us to invest in the same compact development in Limerick, Galway, Waterford and Cork in particular. I mention the cities because Dublin is not competing with Cork or Limerick, but there are benefits in the context of cities as that is where we can do compact development easier and make the economics of high-quality compact development work. That will be the battle in the national planning framework. If it is just a continuation of our traditional development model of greenfield sprawl, it will not work. It will not work in economic, planning or environmental terms. It will not work socially. We have to make sure we are consistent in implementing the national planning framework.

With regard to the MAC curves, I do not know where they are gone. Like the Deputy, I always found them useful. Some people believed they were a bit too simplistic or overused. We relied on and benefited from a lot of good work with McKinsey, which I found capable in assisting our Department through the recent years of the climate action plan process. MAC curves are very much associated with McKinsey, which is not providing the same level of direct consultancy support for us at present. Maybe that is why MAC curves are not quite as centre stage. I would not rule out their use in the future where it is appropriate.

I turn to procurement and the green new deal. We are in the closing months of this Government. One of the challenges for the next Government will be implementing all of the legislation that the previous European Commission, Parliament and Council of Ministers have approved. A phenomenal amount - I think there are 25 major pieces - of European legislation has been passed in the past three years in fuels, building standards, renewables, energy efficiency, aviation and so many different areas. That is the bedrock of our regulatory and economic direction. To answer the Deputy's question, the likes of the energy performance building directive will steer us towards higher standards, not just in knocking down everything and building new, but in refurbishing buildings and in promoting heat pumps in every way we can. The challenge for my two Departments is to get the transposition of that legislation through in order that we can go into our Presidency of the European Union in 2026 able to show we are part of the leading nations in taking this competitive and strategic direction.

I know the Deputy is an economist by trade. One of the significant developments in the summer and spring, but particularly in recent weeks, is the publication of Enrico Letta's paper on the need for stronger European markets in capital and energy and Mario Draghi's report from last week on the need to recognise that the core of this competitiveness future for Europe is around the electrification of everything, the roll-out of renewables and the development of grids. That is where the industrial revolution of our time is happening. Our strategic interest in this State is in being one of the leading deliverers of that vision of the future, including being more integrated with our European colleagues and the UK. I was in London last week. The more interconnection we have with the UK, the better-placed we will be to be economically competitive. It is about delivering the legislation, following Draghi's direction and focusing on being fast in delivery, particularly through our courts and our planning system. That is what we need to do.