Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I warmly welcome the witnesses. I thank them for the benefit of their time, their expertise and the knowledge they have in the various organisations they represent. It is very beneficial for us as members that they are here to give their presentations and to hear the questions we have.

I will start at the end, where Deputy Boyd Barrett was rightly raising the issue of construction and all of that. If you stand back from politics sometimes and analyse it, it is amazing to see what happens. Over recent years, we have had absolutely no problem in the world – that is a debate for another day – in welcoming people who have come here for whatever reasons they have had to come here. Whether it has been seeking the protection of the State, fleeing persecution or just seeking a better way of life, the Government has had no problem accepting them. However, God help people in the hotel, construction or quarrying industries who have wanted to get permits for individuals they know but who are not living in our jurisdiction and who want to come here to do a thing called work: work hard for a week, get a week’s pay, pay tax and pay for wherever they are going to stay. God help people looking for those permits because every obstacle that can be put in their way by the agencies of this State are being and have been put in their way, and that is the case to this day. That is one of the reasons we have a such a labour skill shortage. We are not allowing people who want to work to come. We are making it increasingly difficult for them. It is not as though they are randomly coming here. They have been, in many instances, targeted by employers and different groups that have places for them and want to pay them well. They want to come here but, my goodness, no. We put every obstacle we can in their way. That is not the witnesses’ problem. Actually, in a way, it is their problem because it is one of the causes of the issues they have been discussing here in different ways. It is something we should all be discussing because it is an issue.

Coming back to whether the State should start a building company and take on the building it is felt the private sector might not be able to develop and do the required work, the model that happened last time is not a model we should be looking back at and saying worked. We did not have an awful lot of big builders when the last boom came. We did not have that many. Because the work and demand were there, smaller builders became bigger builders. However, it all went pear-shaped because they went from small to big to bust. There are Deputies who like to talk about cowboy builders and so on, trying to give the picture that there is something wrong with you if you are a building contractor. Whether small, medium or big, some politicians like to demonise people because they do work. I am the exact opposite. We need all types of people – builders who operate out of the boot of their car, those who have one or two men in a bigger van and big building contractors. What happened last time? The man who had one van and two people might have, for example, finished up with five vans and 50 people because the work was there, they were able to bring in the resources and they managed to get workers. It is to be hoped that will happen if politicians will allow it to happen.

Some of the people who want to be involved in construction and in doing good things themselves are being demonised so much in the Dáil that they would nearly rather stay away from it. We have people in the Dáil who if you are a worker and you want to create employment, will want to put you down. I am delighted that Deputy Canney is not one of those people because he is a worker and he knows what it is like to pay people on a Friday. We need more people like that in the Dáil because it would help us greatly in trying to get out of the situation we are in.

Coming back to the Central Bank, I will outline my experience with banks. Is there any possibility that the banks would start doing what they are supposed to and start lending money to people? I have said this before at meetings and I do not want to name any particular people. When I see ads announcing, "We're backing brave" and all this - I do not use bad language unless something hits my thumb - it is the biggest load of what I will not say that I have ever in my life heard. The Acting Chairman knows exactly what I am talking about. I hate pointing my finger at the Acting Chairman, but he is a very good politician. When he is doing his clinics, he has nice young men and women and business people coming to him. They are saying they are trying to get a loan from such and such a bank but cannot get in the door even though there is a sign saying, "We're backing brave". However, when they get in, they are told "Oh, we're very sorry. We can't lend to you because ... ". Can we try to persuade our banks that the whole model of a bank is some people put money in so that other people get it out, the bank charges interest and makes money? This is a very simple philosophy but some of our bank managers seem to have lost that.

Another thing seems to be gone, and it does not have to be gone. Some of us have had the pleasure over the years of going in - it could have been men or women in charge of our banks - and we sat down and had a relationship with the person and knew whom we were talking to. Now the bank managers of today seem to have an attitude. I think they like the attitude because I think they like to be able to pass the buck. Our bank managers should have more autonomy. They should be more involved in the day-to-day dealings of that bank, in other words whom they give money to and whom they do not, what business they give it to and what business they do not.

The one thing about business today is that there are so many difficulties. We have all heard the headlines that 50 restaurants are closing each week, and that is true. It is more than the 50 restaurants that are closing; an awful lot of other small businesses are also closing. It tells us one thing: the man and the woman, the husband and the wife or the partner who are struggling away and are managing to keep the door open deserve to be backed. If they are looking for money from their bank or their lending institution, for God's sake, could we encourage them to loosen up?

There is no good in saying we have to learn the lessons of what happened to us before. If you keep looking backwards, you will fall over what is in front of you. Our banks seem to be living in the past in claiming they are constrained and this and that. It is all about what happened before but nothing about what we are going to do in the future. We need the Central Bank to be knocking heads together and to be saying, "Right lads, is this country open for business or not?" It does not matter whether people are in Kenmare, Clonakilty, or Dunloe, anybody running a small business is relying on the bank. They are the people who kept the banks' doors open and stuck with them. All the banks are doing is running campaigns and poster campaigns about what they are doing when in actual fact they are doing nothing.

Of course, prudence is very important. It is very important in life to be frugal. The old saying mind the pennies and the pounds will mind themselves is true. However, there is such a thing as being financially stupid. People only live once. If they do not take a gamble every now and then, they will have an attitude of not giving someone a loan in case it does not go right. If you do not take a chance in life, you will get nowhere; you have to take gambles. I accept we do not want to do foolish gambles and we need to learn from the mistakes of the past. However, we still realise that people in business need support. At critical times, it could be the simplest thing like an overdraft, a term loan or a mortgage.

When are we going to start backing young people and trying to make it in such a way that young people will be able to get a mortgage? I know plenty of people, who have identified houses they want as their forever homes and are looking for mortgages today. They are diligent young men and women and they are starting out in life. They can see their way to pay the bank but the bank will not listen. All they are told is: "Ah well, you know 'tis Dublin. Sure, I'd love to give you the money but 'tis Dublin that's saying it". My God, is it any wonder people are getting set against Dublin around the rest of the country when all they hear from their banks is, "Well, we'd give it to you only for Dublin".

I appreciate the witnesses' coming here today and saying what they are saying. I hope they will go away and appreciate what I am saying. What I am saying is from the bottom up. I will give an example from last Monday night when plenty of other people might have been snoozing, I was travelling around the Dingle Peninsula meeting people in clinics up until a quarter to one in the morning. Many of the people I met that night were talking about mortgages and loans for businesses. Dingle is a great place for business and there are great plucky people there who want to do this and want to do that but they are getting no support.

If the witnesses go away from today with anything in their heads, it should be that Ireland wants to do business but we need the banks to back us as well. We need the banks to be a bit more plucky and courageous. They should stop looking behind them and talking about what happened before. We all bloody well know what happened before; we are not thick. We want to see what is in the future as well. The witnesses mentioned the financial projections, the annual growth, the fact that we are at what could be called near full employment and all of that. While all that is great, we want to develop that and make it better. We want Ireland to become better and better. We could talk forever about the problems we have as a society, but if we allow for more growth and if we progress and develop more jobs and sustain businesses, will that not help everybody? A rising tide lifts all ships. The banks are not bloody well helping us in raising any ships, but they are sinking a share of them. There is no need for it.

I have a great relationship with banks myself except for when I have to fight with them. It is not a personal chip on my shoulder or anything like that. The reason I have the chip on my shoulder is because of the people I represent, the people I am talking for. When I meet people next week and the week after, the one complaint they will all have is about the banks and of course about Dublin.

I could go on forever but I do not want to because I do not want to be taking the witnesses' time. I really appreciate their being here today. They are all brilliant people in their own roles. I ask them to try to get that message back if they can. They need to see that there is an island out there that wants to get on but we need the Central Bank to work with us.