Mr. Neil McDonnell:

Objectively speaking, yes, but how are we to measure that productivity? As we have heard multiple times from the ESRI, the majority of youth workers are not on those sub-minimum rates of pay. All we are looking for is the freedom and legal permission to do this with those young workers who do not exhibit that. I have experience of young workers in workplaces who have said they will not work for sub-minimum rates, and not only are they not getting the minimum wage but they are getting €1.50 or €2 above it. We are not arguing in the real world in a lot of what we are saying here.