Mr. Neil McDonnell:

We have complained for a long time about the crowding effects in the Irish economy for small businesses employing people. It is a problem not in the youth employment sector but in the adult employment sector. To be honest, the biggest threats come from the multinationals and from the public service, where you have a 53% premium from the small business weekly wage to the average public service wage. Our members are not able to compete with that.

They do not find this grossly discriminatory. Many of these small businesses are very hardscrabble businesses. You are talking about the west of Ireland, where in some cases the only employer on the main street is a small business. They are really doing their best for their employees.

I would like to respond to a question asked earlier by Deputy Shanahan. I was in the west of Ireland in May talking to small business owners. A lady came up to me who has a number of dry-cleaning outlets. She paid the manager of one of her dry-cleaning establishments in Mayo the 12.4% that went on the minimum wage. A month later, that employee came back to her and said she had lost her medical card because of that pay rise but when she went into her Intreo office, the Intreo office said if you go from a five-day week to a four-day week they would get her back her medical card. On top of that, she was told that if she dropped from a four-day to a three-day week they would get her the HAP payment for her rent. This is what employers are dealing with on a day-do-day basis. The State is actually telling people to work less and it will pay them more money through the social protection system.