Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the witnesses from the ESB Networks, Mr. John Emerson, Mr. Alan Rossiter and Mr. Nicholas Tarrant. I will go through the statutory process of reading out a note on privilege. Witnesses giving evidence within the parliamentary precincts are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence given to the committee. This means that witnesses have a full defence in any defamation action against anything said in the committee. However, witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and may be directed to cease giving evidence on the Chair's direction. Witnesses should follow the direction of the Chair regarding this.

Witnesses are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that, as is reasonable, no adverse comment should be made against an identifiable third person or entity. Witnesses giving evidence outside of the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as witnesses giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts and may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter.

The witnesses are more than welcome. I ask them to outline their roles in ESB Networks and to make their opening statement.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

I will go through our opening statement and introduce Mr. John Emerson and Mr. Alan Rossiter as I do so.

ESB Networks has a critical role in the delivery of Ireland’s renewable energy targets and we welcome the opportunity to speak with the committee this evening. I am joined by Mr. Alan Rossiter and Mr. John Emerson, both of whom are involved in that. Mr. Rossiter is responsible for three of our six regions in the southern half of the country and Mr. Emerson is involved in centrally co-ordinating the process around mini-generation, or minigen, and small-scale generation, which we will touch on as we go through the opening statement. I will briefly explain the role of ESB Networks in the electricity sector and then cover some summary points relevant to the topic of renewable energy.

ESB Networks plans, builds, maintains and operates the electricity distribution network. We also build and maintain the onshore electricity transmission network, the planning and operation of which is the responsibility of EirGrid. Since 1999, these licensed activities have been overseen by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU. ESB Networks is a ring-fenced part of ESB Group and there is strict regulatory separation between ESB Networks and the areas of ESB Group responsible for generating and selling electricity. ESB Networks does not have a policy role in the use of agricultural land for renewable energy, nor do we develop solar or wind projects. Our role is in the connection of renewable energy projects to the electricity network and also the wider construction and maintenance of the network. We access land every day in the carrying out of our role and our positive relationship with landowners is something we highly value.

ESB Networks has served all Irish customers for almost a century. We work every day to deliver electricity safely and reliably to all customers, irrespective of who they buy their electricity from. We provide a 24-7 emergency response and, during outages in severe weather, our crews work to restore electricity to affected areas as soon as is safely possible. We have approximately 2.5 million customers. There is more than 180,000 km of electricity infrastructure across Ireland. We have approximately 3,800 employees and an extensive supply chain of specialist contractors to help deliver approximately €1 billion of capital investment across all of our work programmes each year.

Moving to the area of climate action, the electricity distribution system is evolving to become a low-carbon electricity network where 80% of the electricity demand in Ireland will come from renewable sources by 2030. ESB Networks is committed to achieving the climate action plan targets and we launched our networks for net zero strategy in early 2023 which aligns with these targets. As we look out to 2030 and beyond that to net zero, major investment in electricity infrastructure will be a critical enabler for these targets to be achieved.

On the area of connecting renewables to the electricity network, Ireland and ESB Networks have a strong track record in connecting renewables. Approximately 6,400 MW of renewable generation has been connected to the electricity system to date and, in the 12 months to the end of September 2023, 42% of electricity consumption came from renewable sources. This 6,400 MW is comprised 200 MW of hydro, 4,900 MW of wind generation, 1,100 MW of solar, plus a further 200 MW of sources such as biogas, waste-to-energy and so on. The climate action plan target is to reach 17,000 MW of onshore renewable generation by 2030, which is 9,000 MW of onshore wind and 8,000 MW of solar. There will be a significant programme of work in this area for the years ahead.

The combination of the Government’s RESS auctions and the regulated connections process is delivering a strong pipeline of new projects each year. Some 412 MW of grid-scale projects was connected in 2023, comprising 191 MW of wind and 221 MW of solar.

ESB Networks processes approximately 70 grid-scale connection applications each year. These include commercial solar and wind projects, community projects and auto-producers. We expect an approximate 650 MW of grid-scale projects to be connected in 2024.

Microgeneration, which is less than 6 kVA single phase or 11 kVA three phase and relates to domestic rooftops, grew by 90% in 2023 compared with 2022. We now have over 94,000 projects registered and this figure is growing by approximately 750 per week.

Mini-generation and small-scale generation refer to generator installations that are larger than domestic rooftop microgeneration. These include installations on farms and businesses. In 2023, ESB Networks received 1,200 applications for minigen, which are projects up to 50 kVA, which was up 85% on 2022. To date, the overall total number of minigen applications stands at 2,437. Some 190 applications for small-scale generation, which is up to 200 kVA, were received in 2023, which was up 200% on 2022. The total number of small-scale generation applications stands at 348 and we have summarised the overall table of the applications in appendix 1.

In total, all renewable generation less than 200 kVA in size contributes more than 400 MW to the electricity system, which has grown to be a very substantial contribution in a short period. The growth in microgeneration, minigen and small scale is expected to accelerate over the years ahead.

In summary, the electricity system is fundamental to enabling the decarbonisation of Irish society, to ensure Ireland meets its ambitious targets for 2030 and to reach net zero no later than 2050. We are enabling the connection of renewable generation across Ireland and ESB Networks is committed to delivering our role in this energy transformation, serving the needs of Irish society and the economy now and in the future. Continued investment in the electricity network is critical for delivery of climate action plan targets, Housing for All and a growing economy. My colleagues and I will be happy to take any questions from the committee.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Tarrant. I call Senator Daly.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their opening statement. It explains everything we need to know, but I wish to go into it in a little more detail for my own information as much as anything else, given my ignorance of how an electrical network works when we talk about a two-way system. ESB Networks has the network structure in place to supply energy to every house in the country. How does that work when it is taking back energy? Does the network require significant modification or advancement? Let us say, for example, I had 40 acres of land somewhere in rural Ireland and decided to apply for planning permission for a solar farm.

I presume it is not as simple as the local councillors saying they have no issue with that. How does the ESB take off that power? How much more infrastructure is needed to do that? The witnesses have set out the number of applications the ESB has received for microgeneration or mini-generation projects. How many of those projects has it been able to facilitate and how many have been given the green light from the network infrastructure side?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

I will comment on the scale of the projects. When we talk about grid-scale projects, if someone decides to use a part of a farm or landholding for a large-scale project, for example, there are a number of different steps involved in that. The first step is applying for planning permission, as the Senator mentioned. The second is going through what is called the enduring connection process, which is a process by which people apply to get a grid connection. That process depends on whether it is a transmission project or otherwise. If it is a large project, it would involve an application to EirGrid. If it is a distribution connection project, the application would go to ESB Networks.

In recent years, under this process, which is a regulatory process, applications have been dealt with by way of what is called an annual batch. Where projects come into that batch, they are assessed depending on where in the country they are located and whether the area has a lot of applications. Our planning engineers have to consider what work is required to give a grid connection offer to an applicant, as in the example the Senator mentioned.

If a connection offer is issued and the applicant is happy to proceed, there is then the question of a route to market for that project. This could mean, for instance, entering into the renewable electricity support scheme, RESS, auction process, where we look at the commercial aspects of a project. The application goes through that process to see whether the applicant has a route to market to sell electricity. I am talking here about large-scale projects.

Once applicants get through those hurdles and if they decide to proceed with the project, there is then work to be done around connecting back to the local substation, depending again on the scale of the project. Developers have a choice of building the infrastructure themselves, except that ESB Networks would do the work back at the substation, or they can ask ESB Networks to deliver the connection project. A considerable amount of work has been done on investment at transmission and distribution level. However, there are parts of the network that are oversubscribed for connections. That is because what we have doing over the past 15 to 20 years is harvesting as much as we can from the existing network while investing at the same time. That all relates to large-scale projects.

Coming down in size to rooftop solar projects for a domestic house, for example, that application process is done on what is called a fit-and-form basis. A solar installer will come to an applicant's house and, if the applicant gives permission to go ahead, will do the installation. The householder submits a form to us to say the equipment is being installed. The application is processed in that way, with nothing else to be done by the applicant.

The next size up again could involve a farmer who wants to put what we call mini-generation capacity on the roof of a farm building. Again, such an application goes through a connection application process for assessment. The 2,437 projects in the mini-generation category include farmers who are looking to progress with installing solar on their farm buildings. The targeted agricultural modernisation scheme, TAMS, grants form part of that process. Those mini-generation projects are designed to be more for self-consumption. There is a payment for export but, as I understand it, the grant scheme is designed more around self-consumption.

That is an overview. I am happy to take further questions.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Putting it in simple terms, we all know the targets. We all know what we are aiming to achieve by 2030, and, in turn, by 2050, in regard to offshore, onshore and solar. How is ESB Networks fixed to take on that additional generation? How far behind or how close to being on par are the network and infrastructure in terms of being able to take on the extra capacity? What would the situation be if, by waving a magic wand or whatever, we had all that power being produced in the morning that we say we will be producing by 2030, including offshore, onshore, solar, etc.? Will the network be able to take that? How much investment in infrastructural improvement work needs to be done and how long will it take? Basically, will the ESB be able to keep pace with the proposed development in renewables?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

The numbers today are at 6.4 GW. We need to get to 17 GW onshore. There is considerable investment needed in the electricity network, both at transmission level, which is the equivalent of the motorways, and in distribution. The transmission network makes up about 7,000 km of the 180,000 km I mentioned earlier. Approximately 380 individual projects have been brought forward by EirGrid and will be delivered by ESB Networks. That is a very big body of work. There is an extensive body of work to be done on the distribution network as well.

It is worth noting that we are a regulated entity, as I mentioned in my opening statement, and we go through price review processes that last five years. We are currently in price review No. 5, which will finish at the end of 2025. From 1 January 2026 to the end of 2030, we will be in price review No. 6. We will submit a business plan to the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, and will go out for stakeholder engagement. We will submit the business plan to CRU at the end of October this year. It will set out our investment programme up to 2030 to enable the achievement of the climate action plan targets. There is a considerable amount of work to do, involving an extensive series of projects, to enable the delivery of the targets and, at the same time, enable us to continue to support the growing economy and population. We are talking about renewables today but there is also the electrification of heat and transport, which is fundamental to achieving the climate action plan targets set out by the Government.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is storage the responsibility of ESB Networks, as well as distribution? There are a lot of storage projects happening at the moment, including one between Tyrrellspass and Rochfortbridge which involves installing a battery to store electricity produced when it is windy for redistribution when it is calm. Is that infrastructure part of the brief of ESB Networks?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Storage projects, like any generators, are not something ESB Networks own. Storage has grown considerably in the past couple of years. That has been achieved through contracts or options overseen by EirGrid when it comes to transmission. In conjunction with CRU, we are currently exploring whether there is a role for large-scale storage projects on the distribution network. We have been out to consultation, and are due to go out to public consultation again, on the potential role of large-scale storage projects on the distribution network. We would be connecting them and seeking their services but we would not own and operate them.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I have a question on the ESB's significant target for 2030. At the moment, it is at 6,400 MW and the target is 17,000 MW. How confident is ESB as an organisation that it will reach that significant target by 2030?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

There is no doubt it is a stretching target but it is the target for which we all are aiming. It is set out in the climate action plan. We have mirrored it in our own strategy and we are building the organisation and our contract partners with the aim of achieving it. There are many challenges but we are determined to do everything in our power to hit the target and to work with all our partners to deliver it. Achieving it requires a steady increase in projects year on year. I mentioned in my opening statement that we expect to get approximately 650 MW of large-scale projects connected this year. That number has to increase year on year out to 2030 for the targets to be achieved. Going back to Senator Daly's question about the amount of infrastructure that is needed, a step change is required to enable us to achieve the targets out to 2030. There is a huge body of work to be done. We need to grow our own workforce and our contract partners and supply chain to make those targets a reality.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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At the moment, the ESB is producing 6,400 MW, of which 4,900 MW is coming from wind and 1,100 MW from solar. If it reaches the 2030 target of 17,000 MW, how does it see that split developing between wind and solar?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

In the climate action plan targets, there is a breakdown of the 17,000 MW, or 17 GW, we have mentioned.

That target is broken down as follows. It includes 9,000 MW of wind power, which is just less than double where we are today, and 8,000 MW of solar power.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Is that onshore or offshore wind?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

That is onshore wind. I am sorry, I should have clarified that. There is potential for the addition of more than 5 GW of offshore wind to be added to that target.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Is offshore wind under the remit of ESB Networks? Where does it fall?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Offshore wind is procured using an auction process. We have described the role of ESB Networks as being responsible for the distribution network onshore, including owning the distribution network. It is also the licensed transmission asset owner onshore. EirGrid will be the licensed transmission asset owner for the offshore transmission network that will take the power from the offshore wind farms and bring it onshore.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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We like making it complicated, anyway.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

There is a clear differentiation around the asset ownership. The offshore transmission network will be owned by EirGrid. There is an important role for ESB Networks when it comes to offshore wind, which is to bring the offshore wind onshore. There will be a significant growth in the onshore transmission assets once the offshore wind comes onshore to build-----

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Does the ESB put it onshore? Does it do the underwater work or who does that? Is it EirGrid?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

EirGrid has responsibility for the ownership of the offshore transmission network. When it comes to onshore, EirGrid sets out the need for the transmission projects. For example, an upgrade of a number of projects around Dublin will have to be done for the east coast projects. Once those projects are brought forward, go through planning and get consent, we in ESB Networks deliver them. We do the detailed design and procurement, and then work with our contract partners to deliver the projects onshore. It is like building new motorways for electricity onshore to cater for the offshore generation of wind power.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Where does the interconnector fit into the jigsaw? There has been talk about the interconnector between my part of the world and France. That is an important loop in closing the circuit to ensure we have connectivity to the Continent. Where does that fit into the jigsaw?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

The interconnector is under the responsibility of EirGrid. That transmission connection between France and Cork is the responsibility of EirGrid. That project is under way. Other interconnectors with Britain exist. Another, the Greenlink interconnector, is due for completion later this year.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Regarding the grid itself, am I right in saying that it is an all-Ireland network when it comes to energy products? We have connectivity North and South and there are no boundaries or barriers in place. Mr. Tarrant might elaborate on where our network is, the co-operation between North and South and where ESB Networks fits into that equation.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

I am happy to do that. The first thing to say is separate from ESB Networks. The wholesale network in Ireland is a combined North and South market. It is overseen by the single electricity market committee and allows for the trading of electricity North and South.

When it comes to the network, there are points of connection between the electricity network in Northern Ireland and the Republic. An important project, the North-South interconnector, is a critical piece of infrastructure that is due to commence construction next year. It is vital to connecting the two markets. It will also enable savings on the wholesale market, which affects all customers North and South. When the project is completed, it will also enable the connection of a further 900 MW of renewables onshore. It is a critical piece of infrastructure. It is one of the key enablers to allow for connection between the networks North and South of the Border.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Mr. Tarrant mentioned biomass in his statement. I was a bit surprised to hear it mentioned, to be quite honest. I thought it would fall under a different heading. Will he elaborate on the ESB's involvement in biomass projects? Other projects, including biomass and waste energy, are going to account for 200 MW of energy. Where does the biomass element fall in ESB Networks? Where does the ESB tie in? I was surprised to hear that mentioned.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

We mentioned it in the statement to give a sense of the amount of renewables on the system. Going back to our role, we provide common infrastructure across the overall market. In connecting any renewable projects, whether biomass, onshore wind, storage or solar, our role is to ensure they are connected to the network. We do not have a role in owning biomass or waste energy projects. Our role is to ensure that when they generate electricity, they have a connection to the network. We do that in partnership with, for example, EirGrid for transmission connected generation or if it was not connected to the distribution network, we have a role to ensure it gets connected. We do not have a direct role. As I am sure has been discussed at the committee, a biomethane strategy was recently launched by the Department. It is in its early stages in the sector but there are plans to grow so there is indigenous gas in the country. ESB Networks has a role around that industry. As the likes of biomethane plants are developed, there will be a role for us to ensure their connection to the electricity network. There is talk of a significant number of such plants as the industry takes off.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I expect the majority of those plants will feed into the gas network rather than going for the generation option and connecting them to the grid. Is Mr. Tarrant expecting some of those to opt for the generation option? Has he any intelligence in that regard?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

They will be located near the gas network so they can feed the network. That is absolutely the case. There may still be a need for them to be connected on the basis that a factory may need a grid connection. The plants may or may not have some generation on site. If there is a need to use electricity on site, they would need a connection to the electricity network.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I will ask about the mini-generation applications that have been made. Mr. Tarrant's presentation goes into detail. I will ask about those waiting for customer installation. The table in the submission suggests there are 976 such applications. If I am wrong, please correct me. Mr. Tarrant might give an indication in respect of the timeline for those applications and how long it will take to get them up and running. Is there a lag? Is there a timeline? Do we have issues where people are getting approvals but not moving forward? Representatives of the forestry industry were before the committee earlier. While many forestry licences have been granted, we do not have matching planting. Mr. Tarrant might give an indication of the timelines required for those applications. How many are waiting to be progressed?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

I will pass to my colleague, Mr. Rossiter, to say more on this topic. I will deal directly with the Leas-Chathaoirleach's question. Once the applications are processed by us and accepted by the customer, it falls to the installation company. Many installation companies are working across Ireland and they are very professional organisations. It is up to them to plan their resources and to install these projects. If we take, for example, a mini-generation project on a farm, it would take a couple of days to install. I will ask Mr. Rossiter to cover a few of the points.

Mr. Alan Rossiter:

We introduced mini-generation in the late stages of 2021 on a pilot basis. It is still in a pilot phase to allow the industry and the ESB to put in place an appropriate mechanism to roll out a project on a mass scale. Two years in, we have good experience, as has the industry.

Committee members can see in the appendix to the opening statement that we have received over 2,400 applications and just short of 1,800 of them have come out the other side. Approximately 600 are within the pipeline, of which 400 are waiting to be processed and waiting for further customer information. Some 200 of them are with our dedicated design team, who are processing the technical parameters to get them connected and issued out.

It is worth noting that the project started as a pilot and applications have increased by over 100% in the past 12 months. That means we have had to deploy additional dedicated resources to keep pace. We are planning to put in more resources because we anticipate the project will grow by 20% to 30% per year to 2030. I am happy to take any other questions in that regard.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Paul Daly wish to come in?

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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That is okay.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge the presence of the ESB Networks representatives. It is very important for the agricultural community to have an understanding of what is happening in this space. It is really important for us. Looking at figures presented by the witnesses, in the next five years there will be significant changes with regard to the renewable energy aspect. If we are to reach the proposed target of 17,000 MW of onshore renewable generation there will be huge changes in the natural landscape around the country and ESB Networks plays a very important role in that. On average, ESB Networks has a very good reputation in rural Ireland and that has to be acknowledged at this meeting. ESB Networks' understanding through its work of rural communities, farmers and everyone else is something we value. It is great that its representatives had the opportunity to attend this meeting to give the committee and others an understanding of what ESB Networks does on the ground.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Mythen has an issue he wishes to raise.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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We will have to wait until Deputy Mythen returns. He is the man who proposed that ESB Networks representatives should attend the meeting. Voting has finished in the Dáil. I will suspend the meeting briefly.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I welcome the witnesses and I apologise that we are in and out so much. I have a few short questions. Is there still a problem connecting to the grid if somebody puts up turbines or for wind farms? Do people still have to wait on a block or whatever? Is that still the system?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

The system around connecting renewables is that in recent years there has been an annual batch where people apply to ESB Networks as the distribution system operator or to EirGrid as the transmission system operator. Those applications are then processed. As we said in our opening statement, we process approximately 70 per annum as part of that. Connection offers are then issued and they proceed beyond that if connection offers are accepted. We go into the RES option process for example or they might have separate power purchase agreements, PPAs, where they agree to sell the power and the project goes on from there. There will be considerable investment in the electricity distribution network and transmission network over the next decade and beyond to continue to have the infrastructure to hit the targets for the climate action plan and beyond that again if those targets change. There is a big target for 2030 of 17 GW, with 9 GW of onshore wind and 8 GW of solar. Today we are at about 6.4 GW and growing. We expect approximately 650 MW of large-scale projects to connect this year.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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It might not be the ESB Networks side of it but I was looking at the energy figures. Basically, we brought in a lot of power through the interconnector. That is imported to put it simply. That could be coming from fossil fuel or renewable sources. We then claim to have reduced emissions. Is it not someone else ticking the box on emissions?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

The overall development of renewables in Ireland over the past 20 years has been a very positive story. There is a huge amount to do but it has been very positive to get the level of onshore wind that we have in this country. We are a world leader when it comes to onshore wind. There has been a huge growth in-----

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I apologise for interrupting Mr. Tarrant speaking about onshore wind. Where do we stand with offshore wind?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Offshore wind is in development. ESB Networks does not have a direct role in offshore wind. There is a first phase of projects being developed on the east coast. The role of ESB Networks is in the onshore transmission network that will be needed. Transmission is the equivalent of the motorways for the electricity network. Once those projects are brought forward by EirGrid, the transmission system operator, the detailed design, procurement and installation of those projects - there is a huge amount to do on these projects - would be delivered by ESB Networks.

We do not have a role in trading across the interconnectors to balance supply and demand. That is a role for EirGrid. It is fair to say that interconnectors have a very important strategic role for Ireland from an energy security point of view. There is a project to be completed called the Greenlink interconnector which is due for completion later this year. The Celtic interconnector to connect Cork to France is also being developed by EirGrid. They have a very important role. ESB Networks does not have a role in the import or export of electricity between the two markets.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Recently there have been serious problems where forestry is being put up. A tree will grow to 70 ft or 80 ft over 30 years. Why does ESB Networks not look for them to be 20 m or 30 m back from its power lines? In Rooskey and Kilmore in County Roscommon people have been tortured over trees falling. Obviously, the land there would not be hectic and the trees might flip over pulling the cables down. Why would ESB Networks not move in to make sure there is a proper setback distance when forestry is planted? Has ESB Networks looked at trees at the side of the road? I give credit to the ESB Networks staff whenever there is a storm. We have probably some of the best people. We send some of them to other countries to help them. In fairness they go out in tough conditions and get the power back. When will we call a spade a spade? Everyone wants to be politically correct saying that we love trees and everything. We all do, but why are a few of them not sown down the fields? Has ESB Networks ever looked at the ones that are clipping near power lines or of a certain height?

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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We have called the witnesses before the committee to discuss renewable energy. That is slightly outside the topic. If Mr. Tarrant does not want to answer that is totally appropriate.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Sound. I will go back to that.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

We are happy to address the question. There are over 800,000 ha of forestry in Ireland. It has doubled since the mid-1980s. We have a policy on distance to overhead lines. We are certainly seeing vegetation in general on the network as being a very significant problem when it comes to customer service and network reliability for customers. We are here to ensure we have a reliable service for customers. It is a requirement to have forestry trees cut where they are adjacent to overhead lines.

I might ask Mr. Rossiter to elaborate on the forestry piece of it. We will come back to the general question about what we do around vegetation across the network in general because we have a dominant overhead line network, which is quite unique in Europe in many ways, because we have a very dispersed population.

Mr. Alan Rossiter:

Further to what Mr. Tarrant said, we have a code of practice there as well. We have agreed clearance corridors that must be maintained around lines depending on the voltage level, whether it is a low voltage, medium voltage or transmission line. In many cases, those clearance corridors are being impeded upon and we have to engage with the owners of the forestry to try to clear it back to those corridors. Sometimes it can be quite tricky to get to the ownership of the forestry but in certain areas, and particularly after the storm in January where forestry caused us issues around the time to get the line restored because of the nature of the trees that impacted our network, we are going in afterwards and trying to clear those corridors. The more we can do around trying to maintain those corridors across all forestry, the better.

Across the general vegetation across the country outside of forestry, we have cyclical timber-cutting standards that we maintain and try to keep to. What we have noticed is that over the past few years we have had to increase the standards, increase our cutting distance, etc. As we move forward, over the next couple of years we will hopefully get on top of the forestry and then clear the other vegetation impacting on our network.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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In relation to ESB Networks bringing the power with the network it has at present, what I cannot fathom - they might explain it to me - is the wind farms I see being built beside mountains. Oweninny is a perfect example. There are corridors being built now, here and there. The big cities are the big users of power. How is that we are bringing it right across the country? My understanding is that the system ESB Networks has at present, if a lot of power came on board with renewable, would not be fit for it.

The other part I want to know about is the farmers and, indeed, householders who have put up solar panels, all of which, by the way, are renewable. They payback in all of that, while it might be helpful to their use, from extra electricity that they produce is minimal. That needs to be looked at. I accept that might not be ESB Networks' area as it basically carries the current. Which is the most efficient - solar farms or wind farms?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

There are three questions the Deputy asked us to cover. Going back to the first question about the transport of electricity to places of higher demand from places where there is generation, if one looks at the history - it is no surprise - of wind projects right across Ireland, particularly along the west coast, at windier sites, for example, the project in Oweninny in Mayo or many others from Donegal to Kerry, they are developed and then, through their grid connection, whether it be on the distribution network or on transmission, those power flows are managed by us in ESB Networks from the point of view of the distribution network as we are the distribution system operator and the balancing of supply and demand and transmission is by EirGrid. There is a significant number of new projects to be built out to 2030 and probably beyond. There are approximately 380 transmission projects of different sizes to be developed and built out to help with achieving the overall target of 17 GW between onshore wind and solar by 2030.

Moving to the Deputy's question about the payback period for farms and domestic households, we are seeing very significant growth in this area with solar. For example, and we covered it in our opening statement, we have 94,000 domestic rooftop installations on and it is growing at a rate of 750 a week. There was continued big growth from 2022 into 2023. That growth is continuing in 2024 as solar installers are expanding and people see the benefit of doing it. There is a payment for customers. Such payments are ultimately set by the supply company that they deal with but one of the benefits of the smart metering programme is that it allows people to get credit for the power that they are exporting from domestic rooftop solar installations.

In the area of farms, particularly if one looks at the TAMS grant scheme that was launched by the Minister in the early part of last year with a 60% grant available for putting in what we call "mini-gen", which is a size up from rooftop solar on domestic rooftops, or small-scale generation, which is up to 200 kW, the next size up again, there is considerable benefit for farmers to install that. That grant scheme is designed around an energy audit that is done on the farm. It is about self-consumption. Those farmers have the ability to get a payment for the amount that they might be exporting but it is very much geared towards their own consumption, and, as I am sure the committee has discussed, particularly for dairy farms where they have a big power requirement for milking, cooling of milk, water heating, etc. They are important projects. We are seeing farms coming through our process. We expect that will grow because the payback period, from where we are sitting, looks to be beneficial to farmers.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Instead of causing controversy, for example, when it is trying to bring more capability in power supply or bring the power from place to another, why is ESB Networks not using underground? Going by other European operators, it is quite possible. Rather than rows starting over pylons going down fields, etc., why not do that, especially given the profits ESB Networks makes?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

It is important to look at ultimately who pays for electricity infrastructure.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Just to give the witness some guidance, that is slightly outside the remit of the questions. It is totally up to himself.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

We are happy to address the question.

When it comes to the building of electricity infrastructure by the likes of ESB Networks, that cost is borne ultimately by all customers, irrespective of whom they buy their electricity from. Even though you do not see it in the electricity bill, there is a payment to cover the cost of the installation of new capital projects on the electricity network or to cover our operating costs. If that cost is higher, ultimately customers, whether it be businesses or domestic customers, must bear that cost. One of the roles that we have to undertake as the distribution system operator or asset owner is to efficiently build the network and the cost of underground cable is significantly higher than building overhead lines. We are a regulated business and our costs have to be overseen by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities. Ultimately, it is more expensive to build underground cables. If one looks at the dispersed nature of the population in Ireland, it would not be economically viable to be building that network. As we mentioned in our opening statement, we have 180,000 km of network and that number will grow over the years ahead.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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No, my question concerns when electricity is being brought from generation to supply. Let us take the example of electricity being brought from where it is generated to, say, for instance, Carrick-on-Shannon. This is one place in the west where most of the power works through. This is what I am talking about here. I am not talking about going down every road to Johnny and Mary with no wires. I am talking about the main power lines. There is talk of an interconnector to the North or of bringing the power up there. Why is this type of facility looked at in this regard? Mention has been made of the consumer paying. We are the highest in Europe at paying for electricity in case the witnesses do not happen to know it. It is possible to put the supply underground in Europe and we are still the highest. ESB Networks is running the wires overhead but the electricity prices here are still the highest in Europe, so I do not want to buy that one.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

On the specific case of the transmission infrastructure, it is not our role in ESB Networks to decide at the outset of a project whether it will be underground or overground. That is the role of EirGrid on the transmission network. Our role, once the project has been decided on, has gone through the consenting process and the landowner agreements have been put in place, is to undertake the detailed design and procurement, build the project and then maintain it over its life. We do not, therefore, have a role in ESB Networks in deciding on the undergrounding or overgrounding of transmission infrastructure.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Right. Basically, that is all I have to ask. I thank the Chair for keeping me on track.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is more than welcome. We will now suspend again.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I call Deputy Mythen.

Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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ESB Networks is a wonderful company. I worked with it for a while. I recognise what the crews do every day. To me, they are first responders because they go out in thunderstorms and all sorts of weather, really bad weather, and risk their lives sometimes. People do not realise that sometimes, people on dialysis machines and all sorts of machines, are depending on these lines and that the crews keep these people alive. I say well done on that.

Turning to the opening statement, I am a little surprised it was said that ESB Networks does not have a policy role concerning the use of agricultural land. I was just wondering why this is the case. Obviously, this is where decisions are going to impact. After food security, energy security is the next most important. This has become obvious now with the war in Europe and the price of oil and gas. We can see that consumers are paying through the nose. It is really affecting the economy and so forth. I ask Mr. Tarrant to comment a little on this point.

Moving to the scale of the projects, I am a bit confused about this aspect. It was said that there are more than 94,000 projects. Does the company have the capacity to do all this work? Just on this figure of 94,000 as well, is it combined with the figures for 2022, 2023 and 2024? I ask this because we are talking about approximately 750 projects being done per week. This is an extremely serious number to deal with. Has ESB Networks got the capacity to deal with this amount of work?

The kernel of the issue here concerns the enduring connection policy, ECP, process. This is the process that renewable energy projects must use when they apply to connect to the electricity system. As it stands, though, the opportunity to apply for a connection to the electricity grid only comes about once a year. If a renewable energy project, for example, then encounters delays in obtaining planning permission from An Bord Pleanála, it could miss the ECP window, which would mean it would have to wait for another full year to apply. What is the company's position on this aspect?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

I thank the Deputy for his questions. On his first question on the use of land, our role in ESB Networks is around the connection of renewable projects. The climate action plan for 2030, as set out by the Government, has a target of 17 GW of power generation between onshore wind and solar projects. We do not decide how the land is used for those projects. Our role comes into play when a developer seeks to connect to the network, say in respect of the distribution system. We will review that application. The Deputy mentioned the ECP process. We will consider it in the context of the large projects. We include it as part of it and then issue connection offers. We do not, though, have a say as to what land is used as part of that undertaking.

It is probably worth mentioning that if we look at the CSO numbers for the total available agricultural land, that about 4.9 million ha are available for use for agriculture. If we then look at the Government's target for solar power generation, it specifies that 8 GW of power is to be generated out to 2030, of which 5.5 GW would be with larger-scale projects. If we look at the land use for those projects and estimate the land that would be used, the total amount would come to around 0.2% of the available agricultural land. We believe it is possible to balance the need for agriculture and food security in the context of the climate transition, and to work with those two aspects in tandem. We do not, however, have a role in deciding how land is used. Our role is really around connections.

The Deputy also mentioned the 94,000 projects. This is specifically to do with roof-top solar generation at domestic level. It has been growing substantially in recent years. In our opening statement, we mentioned that has been growing at a rate of 750 a week. The way it is managed from the perspective of ESB Networks is that it is done on a fit-and-inform basis. This is where a solar installer will put the installation on someone's house. A form will then be submitted to us in ESB Networks to inform us about that installation and we then process it. We have enhanced our processing to be able to do this on an automated basis and to progress this endeavour at that volume of completing 750 a week. We expect this number to continue to grow and our system can take it. The benefit customers also get through the smart-metering programme is that they get paid for their exports of electricity onto the distribution network.

In his third question, the Deputy also mentioned the ECP. He is correct that up to the most recent ECP round, this has been done on an annual basis. There was a reason for doing it that way. It was to allow us, and similarly for EirGrid on the transmission side of things, to look at the applications coming in for a particular substation or part of the grid. Instead of doing them in a sequential manner, we look at the applications that come in for a particular part of the network and assess what kind of work will be required and hence the connection cost for a project. If you do not do that as a batch, it makes it very difficult to plan the network.

That is why there was a history of doing that on a once per annum basis and then allowing the projects to go forward into the annual renewable auction process, which is the RESS process. We expect that will change to a twice-a-year process, which will speed up access for projects to get their connection offers and then develop on the projects.

There is a current consultation being run by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities. We have already publicly said that we will support the introduction of a twice-a-year process for renewable connections to be considered and then offer it out to the marketplace.

Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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ESB Networks has a policy role on the use of the land. Obviously it is another form of income saving for farmers. As this is the farming committee, has the organisation a policy to promote and explain the savings to farmers? Maybe the organisation can now do a process. If I was a farmer in the morning and wanted to apply in order to attach solar panels to my sheds, that would be a fairly big thing because the energy generated would run the farm and save money. Has the organisation got a policy on that?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Yes. We have mentioned the larger scale projects, the grid-scale connections, and the 94,000 domestic rooftop projects. In between the two of those, which are bigger than the rooftop solar for a domestic house, we have two categories of projects called mini-generation and small-scale generation. The size of those projects are set out in our opening statement. The two of them can run up to 200 kVA.

In late 2021, we commenced a pilot mini-generation scheme. Since then we have seen a growth in the number of people applying for those connections, which has been up to 2,400 or more. We have included an appendix in our submission, and that includes farms that are looking to put in solar and have already put in solar. They are being grant assisted through the TAMS grants that were launched in early 2023. That is providing grant support for those installations. We are seeing many examples of farmers, particularly for high electricity users like dairy farms, of which there are approximately 15,000 in this country, looking to manage their energy consumption and energy bills by installing solar panels. We expect to see that grow considerably over the years ahead.

We have set out the process for applying for those connections on our website. Mr. Emerson, who is seated to my left, is the person who co-ordinates that process centrally for us in ESB Networks. We expect many more farmers to avail of the grant scheme and install solar on their farms over the years ahead. We are already seeing positive developments in that area.

Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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I ask Mr. Tarrant to provide an example of the average savings that can be made by a farmer with a 30 ha farm. I would appreciate a ballpark figure. I am not asking for exact details.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Unfortunately, our role does not extend to the supply companies. The savings and the cost of electricity, and the buying and selling of kilowatt hours that someone uses on a farm, is not our role in terms of cost. It would be a supply company that would-----

Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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Does Mr. Tarrant have an idea of the figure?

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Yes. I will give a comment to give an idea but it is important that I set out our role.

Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:

Our role is around the connection of the projects. To give an idea, for an average house, which could be any customer among the 2.2 million to 2.3 million across the network, the average consumption of those dwellings is approximately 4,200 KW hours per year. The average energy consumption by a typical dairy farm which has 100 cows would be about 25,000 KW hours and on top of that would be the energy consumption for a house. That gives an idea of average usage.

There are case studies available online, and maybe members have heard this from other visitors to this committee, which indicate the payback period for farmers who install solar on their rooftops, in the way that we are talking about through the scheme, is a very short number of years. I cannot give an exact euro figure for their savings. However, when one looks at the total energy consumption and knows the price of electricity, and given that the farming bodies themselves, including the likes of the IFA, are talking about the investment benefit for farmers of installing it, it is clear these are positive projects for farms.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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As there are no other contributions, I thank our guests for their attendance. I apologise for the delay caused by the votes but that is democracy.

The next meeting of the committee will be on Wednesday, 19 June at 5.30 p.m., when will hear from the inshore fisheries sector regarding the Implementation of the Irish Inshore Fisheries Sector Strategy 2019-2023 report.