Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I have received apologies from Senator Joe O'Reilly. I welcome other members and notwithstanding the busy weekend that most of us have had, with the exception of Senator Craughwell. Today we meet with representatives from Dóchas to discuss their pre-budget submission. I especially welcome Ms Jane-Ann McKenna, CEO of Dóchas; Ms Karol Balfe, CEO of Action Aid Ireland; Ms Réiseal Ní Chéilleachair, head of international advocacy, Concern Worldwide; and Mr. Feargal O'Connell, CEO of Self Help Africa. Our witnesses are very welcome to what is an annual engagement before our summer recess.

This is an opportunity for us to hear about the ongoing programmes of work of these organisations from their representatives and especially about their priorities for the budget in the autumn. The format of the meeting is in the usual manner. We will hear opening statements in turn, followed by a questions and answers sessions with members of the committee. I remind members to be concise with their questions in order to allow for everyone to participate and for detailed discussion.

On privilege, I remind both witnesses and members of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make them in any way identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of any person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that any such direction be complied with. That said, I do not anticipate that any such direction might be in any way relevant to the witnesses this afternoon.

I remind members that they are only allowed to participate in this meeting if they are physically located on the Leinster House complex. I advise witnesses that we are still operating under a post-Covid hybrid format in that it is possible for members to participate in, pose questions and engage with observations, submissions and otherwise during the meeting, while sitting in their offices. While I do not see any members operating from their offices at present, I ask witnesses to keep an eye on the screen. With that, I call Ms Jane-Ann McKenna to make her opening statement.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I thank the committee for the invitation to meet with and brief it on the issues and recommendations outlined in Dóchas's pre-budget submission 2025. We will officially be launching our submission next week. Today, I will outline some of the key budgetary asks and policy areas which we would like to see prioritised in 2025 and beyond. As we approach the end of this Government and the last five years for achieving the sustainable development goals, now is a critical time for Ireland to stand in solidarity with the global south and fulfil our commitment to supporting those who are furthest behind.

The escalating conflicts in Sudan, Gaza and Ukraine and the impact of El Niño in southern Africa and other climate shocks around the world are having a devastating impact and effect on the lives of millions of people. Over 292 million people around the world will need humanitarian assistance and protection in 2024 due to conflicts, climate and other drivers. Of this figure, 74.1 million people are in east and southern Africa, of whom 25 million are in Sudan. Worryingly, international funding for these crises is below target and the levels of response to global appeals currently stands at 16%. Ireland's solidarity with those in the global south and its leadership on upholding humanitarian principles, supporting human rights and ending hunger is greatly valued by our sector and the Irish public.

The Tánaiste and the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Simon Coveney, have reaffirmed their commitment to Ireland's overseas aid programme through successive budgets of this Government. We must act more decisively now, however, to prevent the reversal of decades of progress towards ending poverty. Budget 2025 is the last opportunity for this Government and Oireachtas to set a course to realise Ireland's international commitment for a better, more peaceful and sustainable world. We need to accelerate progress to reach our commitment on spending 0.7% of our gross national income, GNI, on official development assistance overseas by 2030. Realising our target of 0.7% will provide the resources needed to match Ireland's policy on reaching the furthest behind first.

We are calling on the Government to commit to taking ambitious, accelerated and transformative action to address food insecurity, tackle the climate emergency and end structural inequality. The Government must respond urgently to escalating humanitarian needs, while also tackling the long-term root causes of why humanitarian emergencies occur in the first place. It must recognise the interconnectedness of climate change, poverty and exclusion as drivers of conflict, displacement, food insecurity and protection risks.

A more agile approach is needed. The Government should ensure that Ireland's humanitarian and development assistance is committed to locally led initiatives that enable local communities to build long-term resilience. Civil society and local actors, including women's rights organisations, traditional and community leaders, local authorities, national and local civil society organisations, offer greater and more direct access to affected people, contributing to more effective, efficient and sustainable action. Efforts must be made to ensure that they can operate in an environment where they can succeed. Without deliberate global policies to accelerate progress, at least 492 million people will be left in extreme poverty by 2030.

I am joined by Mr. Fearghal O'Connell, CEO of Self Help Africa, Ms Karol Balfe, CEO of Action Aid Ireland, and Ms Réiseal Ní Chéilleachair, head of international advocacy with Concern Worldwide, all of whom will outline our asks in respect of sustainable food systems, climate and a fairer financial system.

We know that this committee has been a strong champion for sustainable development and for the calls of Dóchas and its members. We recognise the consistent record of Irish Aid as a humanitarian donor and the support of the committee to deliver Ireland’s commitment to reaching the furthest behind.

In 2025, we ask the Irish Government to make real progress to realise our commitment to spend 0.7% of GNI on ODA by 2030 by increasing the ODA budget in 2025 by €292 million and publish a pathway to achieving this. This would bring us to 0.37% and put us on track to achieve our target. Incremental annual increases will not be enough to meet our commitment of 0.7%.

We also ask the Irish Government to deliver on our commitment of €225 million per annum of climate finance at a minimum, and set a pathway to increase this allocation to Ireland’s actual fair share, which is €500 million per annum.

Finally, we ask the Irish Governments to ensure that 25% of all Irish ODA is allocated to locally-led humanitarian, development and peace initiatives that can deliver support directly to affected populations.

I will now hand over Feargal O’Connell, who will share the impact of climate change on the communities that Self Help Africa supports.

Mr. Feargal O'Connell:

I am CEO of Self Help Africa, which is an agricultural development organisation focused on poverty alleviation with an expertise in climate-smart agriculture and private sector development.

Just as in Ireland in the early stages of the State, so many countries in Africa are reliant on agriculture and so many families across the continent are reliant on small farm holdings as well.

To give a sense of the scale, smallholder farmers account for 80% of the food produced in Africa, contribute 25% of GDP, and represent 40% of Africa’s labour force. There is huge potential within the agriculture sector in Africa with 60% of the uncultivated arable land on the planet is located on the continent. There is an incredibly young population. However, there is a huge risk this potential will not be realised. That is because of the ongoing climate emergency.

Since joining Self Help Africa I have been lucky enough to visit our programmes in west Africa, southern Africa and east Africa. I have spoken with farmers, small agribusiness owners, researchers and our own staff and partners across a number of countries and the messages I have received has been the same. The climate emergency is here. It is not an abstract distant possibility. It is here, it is right now and it is wreaking havoc.

The significant gains that have been made in improving Africa’s farm systems and productivity, in developing markets and adding value to farm production – some of it funded by support from Irish Aid - are now at risk. The climate emergency is having a disproportionate impact, particularly on women. The climate emergency is a gender issue. Some 60% of smallholder farmers are women and they produce 70% of the food. In a region where 95% of agriculture is reliant on rains - quite specific seasonal rainfall - changes to weather patterns and climate-related events threaten the health, peace and prosperity of hundreds of millions of people in Africa.

A report published by the World Meteorological Organization last year stated that “Given Africa’s high exposure, fragility, and low adaptive capacity, the effects of climate change [were being] felt more severely" right now.

I will focus on two particular countries - Zambia and Malawi in southern Africa - that have been at the forefront of this climate emergency.

Over the past five years, they have had to endure almost total crop failure because of drought and extreme flooding resulting from tropical cyclones that made landfall and claimed lives, caused devastation to farmlands, destroyed homes and triggered outbreaks of cholera.

While the picture is bleak, we have many solutions. We know that climate-smart agriculture works. We know how to increase access to markets for smallholder farmers. We know that investing in disaster mitigation systems now saves money in future. My colleagues, Ms Balfe and Ms Ní Chéilleachair, will expand on these solutions and the financing needed for them. We should also examine the regulatory environment surrounding how the private sector might engage fully with funding mechanisms in terms of carbon financing and carbon markets as well as the roles that research and development and technology transfer can play so that the development gains Ireland has invested in and the great potential of Africa, its agriculture and its people can be realised in the years to come.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

Ms Ní Chéilleachair will speak about sustainable food systems.

Ms R?iseal N? Ch?illeachair:

I thank members for their invitation. I offer the apologies of our CEO, Mr. David Regan, who is travelling in Kenya and Ethiopia, which is why he is not able to be present. I am delighted to be here on his behalf.

As Ms McKenna outlined, we are living in turbulent and increasingly volatile times. I wish to take a moment to focus on the importance of Ireland’s development commitment and the impact of Ireland’s voice and place in the world. Thanks to the sustainable development goals and Ireland’s considerable contribution to their development, we have the roadmap, the means and the knowledge to address inequality and end hunger and poverty, but we do not have the political will on a global scale to make it happen.

Armed conflict and a disregard for international humanitarian law are on the rise as diplomatic and political channels for resolving conflict and ending fighting fail. Conflict has been on the rise for the past decade and 600 million people were exposed to conflict in 2023. There are now 108 million people forcibly displaced due to persecution, conflict, violence and human rights violations. The total number of people living in internal displacement increased by 51% over the past five years, reaching a record high of 75 million people across 116 countries at the end of 2023. The tragic situation in Sudan and the surrounding region is an example of how conflict forces civilians to flee. In one year, 8.8 million people have fled their homes, with 2 million people entering other countries – Chad, South Sudan and Ethiopia.

One in every eight people in the world is hungry and one in every three does not have a nutritious diet. As part of Ireland’s commitment to addressing hunger, essential investment in nutrition has changed the lives of children and their families around the globe. The fight against hunger has to continue as food becomes more expensive and production less sustainable. We have seen the impact of conflict and climate change on our own food baskets as well as the increased costs that resulted from the global pandemic. Every shock hits the poorest hardest. If we have learned anything from the pandemic, it is the unsustainable nature of our food systems.

We cannot discuss hunger without acknowledging the impact of climate change on food availability, food prices and crop diversity, nor should we ignore the risks that climate change poses to good nutrition and education. Almost all children in the world will face at least one major climate-related risk in their lifetimes. Despite progress and economic development, climate change will result in a net increase in undernourished children. By 2050, it is estimated that up to an additional 10 million children will be stunted due to undernutrition.

Of the 75 million children who have their education disrupted every year, 37 million miss out on school as a result of climate and environmental threats. In Pakistan, Bangladesh, South Sudan, Niger and Ethiopia, for example, climate change is a driver of food insecurity as a result of cyclical droughts followed by severe flooding or, increasingly, conflicts due to increased pressures on fertile land and clean water.

Ireland is in a unique position as a country that has experienced extreme hunger and conflict. We need to meet our commitment of spending 0.7% of our GNI on official development assistance by 2030.

Budget 2025 will be the last opportunity for this Government and Oireachtas to further strengthen Ireland's standing as a global leader and support the unrelenting work of Irish civil society, political actors and Irish diplomats in seeking a better, more peaceful and sustainable world.

Ms Karol Balfe:

I thank the Chair, Deputies and Senators for the opportunity to address the committee. I am the CEO of Action Aid Ireland. I will briefly highlight some of the root causes and structural issues the world needs to address, and the role Ireland could play in this, specifically as regards the debt crisis, tax justice, climate financing and private finance flows. We have seen and heard from the other panellists the commendable role Ireland plays with its overseas development programme, and how deeply valued this is. However, the simple fact is that this cannot work in isolation and we need to address some of the root causes of poverty and injustice. As we have also heard, this is compounded by the climate crisis where 75% of the global crisis will be borne by countries of the global south, despite the poorest half of the world's population causing just 10% of carbon dioxide emissions. This is clearly an issue of climate injustice. As Mr. O'Connell highlighted, these inequalities are deeply gendered and greatly impact women's rights around the world. In 2022, nearly one in four women globally experienced moderate or severe food insecurity, 75% of women's employment in the global south is informal and unprotected and 380 million women and girls are currently living in extreme poverty. Women and children are 14 times more likely to die from climate disaster than men and gender-based violence is a feature of all of these crises.

On debt, the countries most vulnerable to the climate crisis are also facing a debt crisis. The need to service external debt in foreign currency has become a major accelerator of the climate crisis. It is a vicious cycle that traps these countries in poverty. It is profoundly contradictory that two thirds of climate finance arrives in the form of loans that exacerbate this debt further and the real value of these loans is often overstated. Action Aid analysis found that 93% of countries most vulnerable to the climate crisis are in debt crisis or at significant risk of debt distress. Again, women and girls end up being triply disadvantaged because governments cut public services to service foreign debt, so women lose access to these public services, lose jobs in these public services and pick up the burden of unpaid care when public services are not available.

I turn to tax justice. For more than 60 years, global tax reform has been hampered by global tax rules that are set and enforced by the club of rich nations, namely, the OECD. This has helped to create a world where resources continue to be plundered from the global south through aggressive tax avoidance and illicit financial flows. That amounts to more than $100 billion per year from Africa. Ireland plays a role in this, and has recently been criticised by the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child and the UN Committee of Economic Social and Cultural Rights, which noted that Ireland's financial secrecy legislation and permissive corporate tax rules hinder the ability of the state party, as well other states, to meet their obligation to realise these human rights.

One thing that is clear is there are alternatives. We are facing multiple crises and extremely entrenched structural issues, but there are ways to get out of this. Oxfam has demonstrated that wealth taxes of just 5% on the world's multimillionaires and billionaires could raise $1.7 trillion per year. Windfall taxes on excess profits of the biggest fossil fuel companies could yield hundreds of billions. Just taxing the five biggest tech companies could raise $32 billion, and there is momentum at the global level for a new UN tax body that would oversee and overhaul rules on tax and lead to greater fairness for the global south. There is also the ability for countries to have national action on tax reform.

The IMF estimated that most low-and middle-income countries could increase their tax to GDP ratios by five percentage points by 2030, allowing them to spend more on the climate crisis and public services. On specific things Ireland could do, as recommended by the UN international committee on economic and social cultural rights we could conduct a new, independent and comprehensive spillover analysis, assessing the impact of Ireland’s tax policies on the economies of developing countries, support global momentum for the tax convention, support debt cancellation and allow for greater trade flexibility to allow developing countries to pursue their paths to food security and development.

With regard to climate injustice and the climate crisis, this year in Azerbaijan, the UN COP29 will focus on agreeing a new post-2025 climate financing goal to allow climate vulnerable developing countries to respond to climate impacts and transition to a sustainable future. This is absolutely essential if there is a realistic chance of averting catastrophic climate chaos. Climate vulnerable countries urgently need rich, polluting countries to provide the climate financing necessary. At the moment, the goal of $100 billion per year has not been met and is deemed to be inadequate. It is likely that the new climate finance goal will be in the trillions of dollars every year.

In relation to what Ireland can do for this, we are already making international climate financing commitments of €120 million in 2022. This is crucially important, but it falls far short of the Government's own target of reaching €225 million by 2025 and falls much shorter than the fair share as estimated by Christian Aid and Trócaire of €500 million. We believe that Ireland must increase its annual climate financing contributions to €500 million per annum, bearing in mind when the new goal is set this will be modest. Only 21% of climate financing is channelled to civil society organisations. We urge that the Government increases this funding, particularly to women centred organisations and communities. It is also essential that Ireland supports the new loss and damage fund. Ireland has played a pivotal role in this but now we must follow up with significant new and innovative sources of finance.

With regard to private finance flows, it is a fact that most of the world's finance is actually going to the causes of the climate crisis rather than the solutions. Fossil fuels are by far the largest contributor to climate change, accounting for 75% of global greenhouse emissions. Industrial agriculture is the second biggest contributor, not the type of agriculture that Mr. O'Connell has been talking about. The financing for fossil fuels and industrial agriculture dwarfs that for renewable energy and those sustainable farming methods for agroecology. ActionAid research shows that since the Paris agreement, €3.2 trillion has been spent on the fossil fuel industry from banks in the global north to the global south. Ireland plays a role in this as €6.2 billion of bonds and shares attributable to fossil fuels and agribusiness flow through Ireland to the global south. The top six investment companies are all oil and gas.

To conclude, we really commend the role that Ireland has played with its very progressive human rights development policy, but we need to ensure that we are delivering a wider and fairer financial system. Ireland needs to play a progressive and positive role in reforming global systems around debt, tax and trade to ensure we can make further inroads to achieving the sustainable goals.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for their respective presentations. I call Senator Craughwell.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I thank the Chair. The work the witnesses do is fantastic. The delivery of aid to the right place at the right time is something we should all be concerned about, particularly when the abuse of women and children is talked about. I got a text last night that took high street fashion and showed where it had been made.

It asked whether I was aware that a child cut this dress or was involved in this, that and the other. However, I am looking at the expenditure of €2.137 billion over ten years in overseas development aid and at its distribution. I want to outline some of that distribution and then ask the witnesses a question on it.

Looking at Ethiopia, where over ten years we have donated more than €552 million and the same country has a defence budget of $1.58 billion, we are paying roughly a third of that. Mozambique has received €299 million and therefore we are actually covering the cost of their defence, which is $0.28 billion. Tanzania received €252 million while Uganda received €242 million. I look at the military spending in each of these countries and I ask myself what is going on here. To give an analogy, were I to agree to fund your children's education and health, you could go off and buy a big car and drive around town looking rather flash, while I paid the cost of it. What sort of oversight is in place in respect of the money that was allocated to overseas development aid? Is it time we stepped back, reviewed what countries we are providing aid to and maybe switch the aid to countries that are far more in need than these countries, which can splash out a billion euro on their defence? I look at them and they have hundreds of soldiers, naval ships and air forces with modern jets. We do not have that. We cannot afford that in this country, where we have one ship and no aircraft that is a jet, yet I look at these countries and they have fighter jets.

I am trying to figure out whether we are allowing these countries to siphon off money from here for education, development and health while at the same time spending the money they should be spending on those things somewhere else? I know it is a touchy area but it needs to be addressed. I get emails all day, every day from people telling me that we are wasting money in overseas development aid. If our witnesses could address that for me I would appreciate it.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I thank the Senator for his question. One of the key policy areas for Ireland is around reaching the furthest behind. One of the real strengths of our policies is that we are putting the individuals who are the furthest behind at the centre of our overseas aid programme. We are targeting those individuals. While I do not have the particular country examples the Senator mentioned, through our overseas aid programme we can target the individuals that need support the most, regardless of whether their governments are doing that. We are putting individuals, whether children or women, at the centre of our policy, as well as those who are most affected by the devastating impacts of climate, conflict or other issues. When it comes to oversight, we know that approximately 17% of the finances for the overseas aid programmes go to NGOs and there is considerable oversight of the different programmes that Irish Aid runs with its partners, many of which are here today, in respect of that spending. We do see a significant amount of money being channelled through multilateral organisations, through bilateral aid as well as through other channels. We would welcome additional oversight in terms of how that money is being spent and ensuring that it is reaching those who are furthest behind. Ms Balfe may want to add to that.

Ms Karol Balfe:

Accountability needs to be there for the money but as Ms McKenna said, it is the commitment to reach the furthest behind that is most important. If we look at the overall global spending on military, it is very concerning - it is in the trillions - at $2.4 trillion for 2023. Certainly, growing conflict is a reality for many countries but there is a strong argument to be made that growing defence and security policies are not reducing those conflicts. In the global context, that is a valid question to raise around the increased military spending and the increased securitisation of responses and decreased outcomes for people in regard to basic safety and personal outcomes.

Certainly, as NGOs, and we can speak to our part of what we deliver, we are very much accountable for how we spend that money in terms of reaching the furthest behind. People in those countries are experiencing poverty and inequality for reasons within their country, as well as some of the global issues I outlined. While we have those concerns, that is why it is so important that Ireland in its foreign policy is really pushing human rights and those values that are core and offer something really unique in the global space. We should, however, also question those big patterns around increased military spending globally.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Meeting those furthest behind is a very noble thing to do but is the spotlight then pointed on the government of the country in question to show that it is leaving the most deprived and impoverished to the mercy of NGOs? A point that strikes me is about if we pump money in - we are talking about a significant amount of money here - and do not have a clear audit track to follow exactly where every euro that is put out goes. It was stated that 17% is the NGO figure, so the rest is going into bilateral aid and various others. My fear is we could be propping up warlords all over the place and missing the target our guests want to hit. Is that a fair point?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

This might be a clarification question to the Department because there is definitely an oversight of how that money is spent. We come from a position where we see aid being most effective in supporting local communities and civil society organisations, women's groups and farming groups and ensuring that at a grassroots level, our funding is having the impact that we want to have, and reaching those who are furthest behind. We want to see Ireland scale up around that locally led delivery piece and ensuring that we are supporting those individuals who are affecting change within their own communities.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Are Dóchas's accounts publicly available for people to scrutinise on its website?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

Yes. We have 56 members. All the international development humanitarian organisations have audited accounts and are able to detail exactly where and how money is being spent.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Going back to my military days, every now and then we had a random audit of our barracks. People would arrive from wherever and come in and check everything out. Are there random audits of the expenditure that our guests go through?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

Perhaps Ms Ní Chéilleachair can give her example of Concern.

Ms R?iseal N? Ch?illeachair:

I brought our annual report, which has just been published, here. We are audited on a regular basis by all of our donors. I agree with previous comments on the weapons expenditure, it is very hard to stomach. It is very hard to understand when it is said that $2.4 trillion is spent on weapons on an annual basis. It also is very difficult to square the fact that the five permanent members of the UN Security Council are also the biggest producers of weapons. We are caught in the middle of all that. Ireland has done great work on the sustainable development goals, to really focus all political efforts on doing better and doing good. Looking at the countries that have recovered significantly from conflict alone, such as Sierra Leone, Liberia, Sri Lanka and Cambodia, all these countries received aid and were provided alternatives to conflict by development actors, NGOs, UN agencies and so on. This is just one part of the work that we do. The impact of Ireland's global contribution is immense. I was at the Protection of Civilians Week 2024 event in New York two weeks ago. I saw the work Ireland is doing to try to address the impact of explosive weapons, for example, in trying to quantify the impact that explosive weapons will have for decades on children who will need prosthetic limbs for the rest of their lives and so on.

We should absolutely question how we spend our money and make sure that there is value for money in everything we do and in Ireland's aid budget. However, as I outlined at the beginning, we are in a very difficult space in the world, and Ireland is one of the leading countries in trying to put peace before conflict and ensuring that education, access to water and the most basic human rights are at the centre of foreign policy. I think that is really essential.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I have one last question. When we took over on the United Nations Security Council, the first statement that was made was that Ireland stood with the women and girls of Afghanistan. Have we had any impact? Do the witnesses' organisations have any people working in Afghanistan? Have we had any impact on the women and girls? I cannot imagine what it must be like for a young woman aged between 18 and 25 who had the benefit of education while the forces were there to suddenly be thrown back into the Dark Ages. I still cannot understand how a father would stand by and allow his daughter to be brought up illiterate and uneducated. Have your organisations got people there and are they having any impact?

Ms R?iseal N? Ch?illeachair:

I will answer that. Concern is in Afghanistan and has stayed in Afghanistan throughout. It is very difficult to continue to programme with the impact of some of the restrictions that are put on how we work and how women can work. What we do in reaching the furthest behind in Afghanistan is a really good example. I think the worst thing any organisation ever has to do is leave a country when it is impossible to work. For now, it is not impossible for us to work in Afghanistan. We do a huge amount on food security and working with communities. We do the very best we can and it is very difficult, but we are still there.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Okay. I thank the witnesses for their service. It is very much appreciated.

Mr. Feargal O'Connell:

I thank Senator Craughwell. I want to come back to him on a couple of those points. We also need to think about the counterfactual of an under-resourced military in Ethiopia and what that looks like. If you look at the history of the African continent over the last three decades, you will see that we need properly resourced and professionally run militaries across Africa which are operating professionally and respecting international humanitarian law. I have worked, personally, in a lot of contexts alongside African Union peacekeepers and UN peacekeepers, and I can tell members that the vast bulk of countries contributing to African missions are now African countries themselves. In a lot of ways, these are African solutions to African problems. Those peacekeepers are not going to come out of nowhere. They need to come from professionally resourced militaries. Ethiopia is in a very particularly tricky part of the world. While the spending needs to be proportionate, and we need to put it in the context of global military spending, I do not necessarily think that a complete about-face in that respect is in the interests of the continent or of global peace and security.

The Senator talked about the figure of around €520 million with regard to what Ireland has invested. I want to put that in context. The United States Agency for International Development estimates that the annual cost of mitigating the effects of climate change in Ethiopia is $250 million. We need to collectively shift our mindset a little bit. In a lot of ways, we are failing to see the wood for the trees if we are looking at what Ethiopia is spending on its military. Ms Balfe talked about what the next climate financing target is going to be at the next COP, which is $1.5-----

Ms Karol Balfe:

It is $5 trillion, possibly.

Mr. Feargal O'Connell:

Pardon me, $5 trillion. Collectively, we need a bit of a mindset shift and we need to start seeing the wood from the trees.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I will come back in on a couple of things. First and foremost, Mr. O'Connell has reinforced the argument for getting rid of the triple lock mechanism because as long as it is in place, we will not be able to go unilaterally into Africa and assist in peacekeeping programmes, which is something we should, as a mature nation, be able to do. Where there is a dysfunctional UN Security Council, we should be able to make our own decisions. Mr. O'Connell is 100% correct. I was at a briefing this morning, in fact, that was all about how Africa is providing peacekeeping services for Africa. We have a phenomenal record going back to the 1960s in that area and we need to rid ourselves of the shackles that prevent us from acting as a mature nation and going there.

Our guests talk about the need for Ethiopia, for example, to have a viable security force. Ireland also needs a viable security force but cannot afford it. That has to be taken in context. Defence and security are the areas in which I am most interested but I do not for one minute think that we should be taking away money from the work our guests are doing. I just want to be sure that the money they are getting is going into the right areas and that we are not propping up some goddamned warlord in some village or town. We have got to be seeing development. I was born into the agricultural society that was Ireland. The Chairman will not forgive me for saying this but thanks to Seán Lemass, we moved into the industrial age and then thanks to more recent Fine Gael Governments, we moved into the information age. Development in this country happened in steps. There was value for money and it was accounted for. We have become an extremely wealthy country and the same can apply in Africa with the right type of leadership. It bothers me that we still have warlords in some parts of that continent. I fully accept what our guests are saying. I am trying to put things in context for myself and those with whom I deal. I do not want to diminish what our guests do in any way. What they do is amazing work. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like for Concern working in Afghanistan. I offer my congratulations to all of our guests and I thank them for the work they are doing.

Ms Karol Balfe:

It is important to be clear about Irish Aid and the money involved. It is audited. In fact, the OECD Development Assistance Committee, DAC, does aid effectiveness reviews. As a civil society organisation, we would welcome certain changes but overall, it is very warmly welcomed as being an effective aid programme that really reaches those who are furthest behind. Having talked to civil society representatives in Africa and Latin America, it is clear that they know Ireland is a different type of donor. Our own experience with Ethiopia, where civil society is severely restricted and has been for some time, the embassy plays a really important role there in supporting civil society and supporting values like human rights and women's rights. I want to be clear that audits are conducted and that Irish Aid also has its own internal auditing. We need to be careful not to suggest that the money is going to warlords when there are systems and processes around aid effectiveness and Irish Aid's accountability.

The Senator asked about how we are coming in and engaging in our aid programmes in the context of people's engagement with the governments in those countries. Action Aid, like many other Dóchas members, takes a human-rights based approach to poverty. Part of that is about addressing the needs of those communities. When there is an extreme crisis, people are hungry and desperate and we have to meet their needs but it also about working with people and using human rights as a lens through which we say that people have a right to water or a right to education and their governments should be providing these. We work with women's groups and look at how governments are providing funding for gender-based violence shelters, for enabling girls to access education and so on. In the communities we work with, there is always an extra layer in terms of claiming rights and building social contracts in a given country.

Mr. Feargal O'Connell:

It is important to consider Ms Balfe's point about how the international finance system is structured. African countries are accessing the markets on absolutely the worst terms.

I have no doubt that there are preferential arrangements for financing military infrastructure. However, when countries turn to the international markets to fund education and health systems, they are being charged unsustainable interest rates, which brings them into the debt trap that Ms Balfe talked about.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the witnesses and thank them for their somewhat disturbing presentations. I think of our country with a population of 5 million and they have spoken about the colossal numbers of people who are being impacted by climate change, conflict, corruption and children being disrupted at school and having to move more than once. We talk about Government doing X,Y and Z here and increasing budgets. Do they have any sense of the extent to which what they have described here is understood or known by the citizens of this country? Quite often, actions by a government and the state in a democracy comes from the citizenry. How much is known and understood and appreciated by the citizens here in Ireland about the real impact on real human beings, people of flesh and blood, like everyone else? I often think about how it would be if our families, children and grandchildren were impacted like this. How would we feel and what would we do? That is just one question. The witnesses are welcome to come here and talk to us but what about the citizenry of the country? We have seen a kind of a pushback against migration. I can understand why migration is occurring when people are fleeing the kinds of situations of conflict, corruption, climate change, starvation and hunger and God knows what else the witnesses have described.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I am happy to answer that question. Dóchas, supported by Irish Aid, has been doing research over the past number of years on public attitudes towards aid. It is more than a snapshot. We have been really tracking the level of depth of knowledge and the level of support of individuals in the country for overseas development aid, ODA. We have seen a consistently high level of support for ODA throughout Ireland. Some 76% of the Irish public agree that it is important to provide overseas aid. They agree with the amount that is being provided. Almost three in five people - 57% - have said that we have a moral obligation to personally support overseas aid. There is a huge level of support. We have compared these figures with other countries such as the UK and Germany, which do similar surveys. We see a significant level of support for Ireland's overseas aid programme from the public. What people believe the key issues are and where they want to see expenditure is in the areas where Irish Aids actually delivers a lot of assistance. These include education, nutrition and health and water. These are the key issues that 2,500 individuals are asked on an annual basis about their support for and what they believe Irish Aid should spend its money on. I am happy to share the details of the report with the committee. It contains a number of statistics but over the past four years the level of support has remained steady.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I get a sense perhaps that will all the statistics and everything we have seen that people are getting a bit numbed by it all and feeling a bit helpless about whether we can do anything to help. I am glad to hear what Ms McKenna has just said about the level of support. All of the witnesses have mentioned locally-led humanitarian aid and civil society organisations being supported. Can they give some examples of best practice in this area?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I will ask Ms Ní Chéilleachair to speak to that point.

Ms R?iseal N? Ch?illeachair:

I would like to come back to the Deputy's previous point first, if that is okay. He will probably be familiar with the Concern debates that take place on an annual basis.

This year, 280 schools engaged. We would all say that young people are more informed and engaged and are deeply empathic with other young people around the world. Social media has connected young people on a level that we probably do not understand. There is a huge amount of awareness among schools, teachers, families and so on. We cannot emphasise clearly enough that climate change is the issue. It is engaging young people on an incredible level.

As Senator Craughwell said, there is awareness around the impact of fast fashion and so on. That would not have been the case 20 years ago, but there is a much greater understanding of the impact of inequality. As the Deputy said, statistics are one thing but the fact that young people, and all of us, have access to information on abuses happening in real time and are almost witnessing what is happening could make us much more helpless, but we have seen with recent conflicts that has brought a swell of outrage, awareness and demand that this should not be the way that our world works. How we translate that into action is key. There needs to be an awareness of Ireland's aid budget and the work that organisations like ours do. We do a huge amount of that through our global citizenship work in schools, with community and youth groups, intergenerational conversations and so on. That is impactful. As people see how our world is changing, that increases the demand for greater action and leadership from Ireland.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of an organisation in Mitchelstown, Partners in Learning, which does some work in Uganda. Last week, the local community held a barn dance to raise funds. Is there merit in that kind of link between various communities in Ireland and communities in parts of the world which need that kind of assistance? Is that something we should encourage and support, in terms of local communities making links and providing direct supports from a town or village in Ireland to a town or village in Africa or wherever else might require help? Mr. O'Connell is involved in work in the agricultural sphere, and this group does something similar on a co-operative basis. Is that something that should be examined? Are there prospects there for enhancement?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I think there is. The partnership approach is something we are very much in support of. From my experience of working with the global health team in the HSE, significant partnerships have been created between hospitals in the global south and hospitals in Ireland. We see an exchange of expertise and ideas, and a meaningful level of engagement and expertise sharing that is extremely valuable.

The Deputy asked about locally led development. Irish Aid and our organisation are both celebrating our 50th anniversaries. Things have changed over the past 50 years in terms of how we deliver assistance and what we have learned during that process. As a sector, broadly speaking donors, civil society organisations like ours and multinational organisations need to be far more progressive in terms of enabling local actors to set the development agenda and ensure they have the support needed to develop and implement local solutions to local issues and build capacity, leadership and resilience at a local level.

It is not just about local civil society organisations, although we do believe they are very important. It is about working with local people on the ground who are directing where they want the investment to go. We need to be far more progressive within our aid policy and as a sector in terms of shifting the balance to ensure we enable and resource local communities to provide solutions for themselves.

Mr. Feargal O'Connell:

I will respond to Deputy Stanton's question about linking communities. Self-help Africa has the plant the planet initiative where, over a number of years, we have brought 50 county level GAA players to Kenya. It has been an important fundraising initiative for us around sustainable landscapes and tree planting, but it goes beyond that. It is also an effective cultural exchange, where the county level GAA players get to engage with Kenyan athletes. During the last trip we had in November, the first ever compromise rules game was played on the continent of Africa. The team played a match against a professional Kenyan soccer team. There are lots of initiatives. We have such a vibrant civil society in Ireland that there are huge opportunities for those kinds of links to grow.

Ms Karol Balfe:

The principle of locally led development is very visible in one of the most difficult situations in the world right now, which is in Gaza. Action Aid is supporting five partners in Gaza, one of which is a maternity hospital. Since October, the staff there, like everyone else in Gaza, have gone through complete hell. The director of the hospital was arrested by the Israel Defense Forces, IDF, in November and has not been seen since. The hospital has been bombed. Staff have been killed. They have had to move from the north of Gaza. They set up in Rafah, but have had to move from there and they are now trying to keep going with a mobile clinic. They belong in fact to the only entity supporting the 55,000 pregnant women in the Gaza strip. That is an example of what locally led development means in practice in a horrendous situation. It is extremely difficult to get aid into the Gaza strip and it has been, but that is an example. We have been able to get money in via PayPal. We have been able to continue to support. That is probably one of the strongest examples I can think of at the moment of locally led development.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Is there any sign of hope in Sudan from the witnesses' work there and knowledge of the country? It is absolutely horrific and it has gone off the radar completely. Is there any chance at all of some kind of peace initiative because the suffering there is akin to Gaza but possibly on an even larger scale?

Ms R?iseal N? Ch?illeachair:

What we are trying to concentrate on now in Sudan is trying to get as much assistance across the borders as we can, which is very difficult. The security situation is extreme. We have a large response on the Chad side of the border and we are also looking at how we can respond to the 700,000 people who have moved from Sudan into South Sudan and southern Ethiopia. We are trying to do the bare minimum, trying to get such things as water purification tablets and high density nutritious food for pregnant women and small children in. It is beyond heartbreaking to see what has happened. Our colleagues say it is on a par with, if not worse than Darfur, more than 20 years ago. The level of destruction is absolutely breathtaking. It is a huge challenge to see a country that has come out of that level of conflict in multiple variations plunged back into such severe conflict in one year. It is also about reinforcing the work of Irish diplomats on a global scale in trying to find ways in which other countries can be brought to the table. We are very far away from a solution, but with the fact that 8 million people have moved and the level of destruction, we are starting to see a little more attention on it. There has been a big global fundraising initiative by the French Government.

There is now a call for further funding to be raised and to be accompanied by strong political engagement, because that is needed, as well as secure access for people to get in and for aid workers to safely provide some level of assistance. It is truly devastating.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In the witnesses' submissions there does not appear to be reference to Covid-19, which dominated our proceedings in previous years. What does that mean for Africa? I am sure the consequences are still readily evident. What is the extent to which the immediate battle against Covid, in the context of vaccination and public health preventative measures, is in evidence? Related to that is the hugely important work to which witnesses referred and on which Ireland is engaged regarding SDGs. In previous engagements, we bemoaned the fact targets were not being met, particularly in education. That was often an immediate consequence of the pandemic. To what extent have policies changed across Africa to meet what a witness described as the deficit, which is political will, which, as well as being vital, is in many ways generic? What are some examples of how this might be met in the context of ensuring the SDGs are brought back on track?

The committee recently had the opportunity to visit Mozambique and see at first-hand many of the varied and hugely important projects Irish Aid and the Irish Government is directly involved in, particularly one in the area of diet and scaling up nutrition. Mr. O'Connell mentioned, as all the witnesses might have done, the hugely challenging and problematic crisis that is hunger. We witnessed in Mozambique the manner in which a recently designed and produced sweet potato can feed hundreds of thousands of children across a small area of land, making a real difference. Might similar projects be expanded and developed? I was struck by what he said about African peacekeeping in Africa. We noted the intervention of the Rwandan armed forces in Mozambique which, at our time of leaving, was somewhat precarious insofar as a withdrawal was very much on the cards. Are these military partnerships working? Do they need the assistance of the European Union in a way that can be sensitive from a policy perspective but nevertheless real to the people there?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I will come to the SDGs in the first instance. I was at the SDG summit in New York last September and it was great to see Ireland leading on the political declaration. Due to events in Gaza and elsewhere, it has very much slipped off the agenda.

The UN has linked the SDGs and the challenge of funding the 2030 agenda with that of debt, and this is where we have incorporated our asks relating to a fairer financial system because we really recognise that, in fact, we are very far from being able to achieve the SDGs. We have been going backwards and are continuing to do so after Covid. We have not been able to make progress and we need to start looking at some of those underlying explicit issues that are very much blocking progress at a national level for many countries in the global south. It is about looking at that financial reform as well as at resourcing. We ourselves are not quite on track to reach the 0.7% target by 2030. There is an element of being able to provide the finance to support the SDGs and realise them in practice, and that is something we will continue to push for to ensure that, from Ireland’s perspective, we can put our foot forward to support the SDGs and ensure it will be not only in our policy and political declarations but also in our financing that we are really trying to make sure they can become a reality.

I might hand over to Ms Balfe on the Covid question.

Ms Karol Balfe:

It is interesting to reflect on how Covid dominated the past few years, and there is still a fallout from the vaccinations not having been available throughout the majority of the global south. One of the implications of that, outside of the health implications, is the breakdown of trust as the global south watched Europe vaccinate itself without engaging in a global response. That contributed to that sense in the south of feeling as though it does not matter.

There was a rise in gender-based violence, as we see in all crises. Many of the programmes we work with say there has been a very clear deterioration in the rights of girls and women, and that is compounded and caught up in many other crises. In the case of the Horn of Africa, for example, it is very caught up in the food crisis, the drought and Covid. It is impossible to overstate how much the lives of people in the global south are caught up in this storm of complex crisis, the impact of the climate disaster, debt, not having the public services and Covid on top of that. It becomes part of that storm that people experience.

To touch on education as well, it is estimated there will be a need for 69 million additional teachers over the next ten years to achieve some of the education goals, and we have to also look at structural issues here. There was a lot of criticism in the eighties of the structural adjustment programmes of the IMF, which had a really detrimental impact on poverty. In fact, while the rhetoric of the IMF has changed, we are still very much seeing cuts to public sector wage bills and elsewhere in the public sector. Action Aid carried out research on 15 countries that estimated $10 billion had been cut from the public services of those countries. We need to look at those structural issues as well. If countries are being told by bodies such as the IMF to introduce austerity programmes, that will mean fewer teachers, bigger classes and not meeting those targets, so it is important we also look at those structural issues.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

I might hand over to Ms Ní Chéilleachair on the queries relating to nutrition.

Ms R?iseal N? Ch?illeachair:

Overall, the Cathaoirleach is absolutely right. There has been huge progress on nutrition globally, the work of scaling up nutrition and Ireland's support for both scaling up nutrition and wider nutrition interventions, but we have so far to go. Covid had a huge impact on not just the price of food but also its availability and the type of nutritious food people could access and gave us a necessary wake-up call about how dependent we were on very narrow globalised food systems. We are doing a lot of work with Irish companies and organisations, such as FoodCloud and other excellent initiatives that seek to increase the nutrition content of basic foodstuffs such as sweet potatoes, flatbreads, mandazis and so on, and many excellent initiatives are happening.

The biggest challenge we are seeing, not only in countries that are affected by conflict where food is being used as a weapon as in many countries, is the impact of climate change. Organisations such as Concern and Self Help Africa are making investments in climate-smart agriculture, where they try to work with farmers to ensure that crops are as climate resistant as possible. Extreme drought followed by great levels of flooding, such as in Kenya in recent weeks, are the sorts of challenges we are facing. When you have these shocks, the price of food goes up. Then the poorest people have to start making cuts, and as Ms Balfe said, it is women who eat last and eat less. That has an impact on the nutrition of pregnant and breast-feeding women and then their children. Those cycles are really challenging. However, I want to emphasise that there is progress. Nutrition for Growth, the big international summit, which will take place next March - it is held every five years - will mark the progress that there has been. We probably forget sometimes to emphasise the progress. Ireland's contribution to global nutrition has been exemplary.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Can more be done from an Irish perspective based on our expertise in exporting food? Can more be done around partnership with the private sector on research and development such as the major Irish food companies and their research and development departments working on designs in partnership with agencies? Could that be further developed?

Mr. Feargal O'Connell:

Absolutely. We work with many of the research institutes across Africa which have the local knowledge. What is needed is the technology transfer and that is somewhere the Irish agrifood companies could play a huge role.

Returning to the Chairman's point on Covid-19, progress was being made. We did see major metrics improving around maternal mortality and poverty rates across the continent. They have been reversed because of Covid and there is no sign of that changing. We have to cognisant of the fact that actions we take within the eurozone or within the globalised north have a very long tail in Africa. The debt crises which are happening right now, the pressures the currencies are under, the soaring rates of inflation in many countries in Africa that are putting basic foodstuffs beyond the reach of ordinary people, are the long tail of Covid. Moreover, we are not learning the lessons. A treaty negotiation is going on right now in the WHO to prepare for the next pandemic and the sticking points are exactly where one would expect them to be. Countries in the global south are looking for guarantees around the sharing of vaccines, relaxing of patents and direct supports in the case of another pandemic but those assurances and commitments are not translating into the treaty, unfortunately. The result of that is that countries in the global south are now refusing to share samples of things such as bird flu in Indonesia and so on. We are seeing a breakdown in co-operation around pandemic preparedness four years after the last pandemic was prepared for. It is all about protecting things like IP rights in the global north.

Ms Karol Balfe:

I would add one thing on agriculture.

We have to be careful what type of agricultural partnership we are looking at. Industrial agriculture is one of the problems we are facing that is putting pressure on food security. Typically, this is when we are talking about where there are monocrops, land grabs and the displacing of small-holder farmers. Therefore, it has to be an agricultural partnership that supports the type of sustainable small-scale farming that is typically led by women. The nature of that agriculture really makes a huge difference.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Wilson to make a final comment and then we will proceed to our private business.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their contributions. It was very interesting. I have one query for Ms McKenna regarding the commitment by the Government to spend 0.7% of GNI on overseas development aid by 2030. Is she saying we need to increase that by €292 million for next year to stay in line with, or get ahead of, that commitment?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

We are saying that our estimation is that the Government would need to spend €292 million in budget 2025 to put us on track to achieve that by 2030. In order to achieve 0.7% of GNI by 2030, we are looking at that level of increase year on year that is required in our budget. It is not a small amount. I thank the Cathaoirleach for having us here today because we really want to demonstrate why it is so important, who the people are behind the figures and why this is a key area in which we need to put more resources in order to put us on track for approximately 0.37% in 2025 and then to keep growing that percentage year on year.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Very briefly, I refer to the other ask, which is to ensure that 25% of all Irish overseas development aid is allocated to locally-led, humanitarian development and peace initiatives and can deliver support directly to affected populations. Is that not happening at the moment?

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

Within Irish Aid's policy, there is space to support local organisations. Indeed, in many of its partnership agreements with the international NGOs, there is a clear element there in how, in turn, NGO partners can support local organisations. That is definitely happening from the humanitarian budget but we really want to see that reflected in all of the ODAs so that within the multilateral agreements, particularly the partnerships with the UN, that where there is a way to go yet, it might engage perhaps with local communities and support and enable them to deliver that assistance. We would like to see Ireland use both its influence and its resourcing to say it would like there to be further funding directed directly to local community organisations.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms McKenna for that clarification.

Ms Jane-Ann McKenna:

We ask that the committee would consider our proposal today and that it would consider writing the Minister, Deputy McGrath, as well as to the Minister, Deputy Martin, with regard to our ask. We will also share a copy of our pre-budget submission in detail with all of the members of the committee when we publish it next week.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In that regard, I thank the witnesses for coming in and for sharing with us their priorities. We were very keen to hear from them before the summer recess as in recent years we were very keen as an all-party committee to put together a report from this committee directly to the Minister of Finance in advance of the budget negotiations which will take place throughout late summer into the early autumn. What the witnesses have told us today in their four reports will form the basis of our submission.

I would like to assure them that we will go through their priorities. We were very pleased to receive an earlier report from the Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin. In past years, although all their recommendations and priorities were not met in full, we as a committee are pleased on an all-party basis to exercise some influence as a parliamentary committee over the Executive. In that regard, I would like to thank them for taking the time to share this meeting with us this afternoon. We would be happy to engage further before the autumn session of the Houses commences. We would be very pleased to hear from them after next week. Indeed, if members of this committee have the opportunity, they might like to attend the launch. We wish you well in that regard and we acknowledge the ongoing work that all the agencies undertake on a daily basis to tackle the major crises in the world.

I remind members that we will now go into private session.